Are you confident Kirk & Co. can coach up all these 2 & 3* recruits?
- Thread starter BubbaJ75
- Start date
Depends on what position coach the player is learning from
I have confidence in some and less confidence in the others.
I have confidence in some and less confidence in the others.
No. It is harder to find "diamonds in the rough" now then it was 10 years ago. There are far more camps and recruiting services then there used to be.
As you look at the 2016 class as of today...are you saying that many of those kids don't have the raw talent to be "coached up"? I just don't find that plauseable taking into account Iowa's history of doing just that.
Coach up some of them into really good players? Yeah sure history has shown that will happen. Coach up a majority of them into a championship team? I would be a lot more skeptical.
These guys will be well prepped and developed but what happens on gameday isn't nearly as easy to predict.
I think there are some very good players on the defensive side of the ball and Toks looks very good at RB and I like the tape of the WR Darby. The biggest problem has been retention and lack of skill position players not player development. When other Big Ten teams are trotting out Coleman, Abdullah, Gordon, Cobb etc and Iowa is going with Weismann and Canzeri that is a big problem. With the type of offense they run they have to have guys at RB and WR who have a lot of big play potential to make it work well. Otherwise you just have an offense like we have seen that gets 3-4 yards per carry, a couple 7 yard catches, gets a few first downs and then punts.
My speculation is, people were kinda expecting Iowa to be able to draw more players that don't need as much "coaching up" I think people were hoping/expecting the new facilities would help alot and thought with KF saying he was going to pay alot more attention to the finer details that they wouldn't be forced to rely on so many players that are years away from making significant positive contributions. This team needs physically ready players at alot of positions. Most want Iowa to attempt to regain some form of national relevance again. With a depleted roster,adding alot of undeveloped "raw" players that need alot of coaching is not going to get them to that goal in the near future. How many years has it been since Iowa finished in the top 20? How many more years without a top 20 finish will it take before a decision on Kf's future is finalized?
Lack of expirience coaching a certain position- Woods.
Guys I have more confidence in-Parker,Morgan,Reid,Kennedy.
Our current HC has proven he can win at a high level with 2 & 3 star recruits in a P5 conference.
Some of these kids deserve a higher ranking. Lemming himself said so. he said Stanley was way underrated and believed he was a 4 star talent. He said Toks is a 4 star talent. Then you have guys like Lattimore, Simon and McKnight who have been very impressive at camps and performed as well as the highest ranked players. Lattimore got co-mvp at a camp along with a 4/5 star kid and Simon got MVP at a Rivals camp and they said this about him.
The Skinny: Simon was unstoppable at camp. The best thing about his performance was his hand technique. His hands were so fast and he was so quick off the line of scrimmage that offensive linemen could barely touch him.
Yet these guys don't have the starzzz and offerzzz that people drool over. McKnight had the same measurables as Josh King at a camp and King is a 4/5 star recruit from Illinois.
"The similarities between touted defensive end recruit Josh King, and fellow Chicagoland prospect Romeo McKnight are eerily similar.
At the Nike Football The Opening Regional in Chicago, King measured in at 6-foot-5 ½, 233-pounds.
McKnight, a 2016 recruit from Crystal Lake (Ill.) Central measured in at 6-foot-4, 231-pounds.
King ran 5.14, McKnight ran 5.13.
King shuttled 4.5. McKnight shuttled 4.41.
King’s vertical was 28-2. McKnight’s was 28-5.
King was the Illinois 3-A state wrestling champ in the 220-pound weight class. McKnight was the state champ in the same weight class in the 2-A class. Both didn’t face each other on the mat.
McKnight made the finals of the Chicago The Opening Regional one-on-ones as one of the top performers in the trenches."
This was also said about the camps.
"Iowa is putting together a damn good defensive line class. Detroit (Mich.) East English Village Prep defensive end Cedrick Lattimore is a guy we knew about and liked, but after seeing his teammate and fellow Hawkeyes commit Chauncey Golston on Friday, we’re not sure which defensive linemen we like better. Both bring great size, frames, athletic ability, versatility and a competitive chip on their shoulder. Those are guys that can help Iowa beat the Ohio States and the Michigan States. Another that could aid in that is Romeo McKnight. The Crystal Lake (Ill.) Central defensive end had a strong camp, is tough to defeat at the point of attack, and like the other two feels overlooked. Iowa is the team to beat for McKnight. Hawkeyes defensive line coach Seth Wallace no doubt left the Motor City feeling good about the guys he has and could potentially have coming in next year."
The Skinny: Simon was unstoppable at camp. The best thing about his performance was his hand technique. His hands were so fast and he was so quick off the line of scrimmage that offensive linemen could barely touch him.
Yet these guys don't have the starzzz and offerzzz that people drool over. McKnight had the same measurables as Josh King at a camp and King is a 4/5 star recruit from Illinois.
"The similarities between touted defensive end recruit Josh King, and fellow Chicagoland prospect Romeo McKnight are eerily similar.
At the Nike Football The Opening Regional in Chicago, King measured in at 6-foot-5 ½, 233-pounds.
McKnight, a 2016 recruit from Crystal Lake (Ill.) Central measured in at 6-foot-4, 231-pounds.
King ran 5.14, McKnight ran 5.13.
King shuttled 4.5. McKnight shuttled 4.41.
King’s vertical was 28-2. McKnight’s was 28-5.
King was the Illinois 3-A state wrestling champ in the 220-pound weight class. McKnight was the state champ in the same weight class in the 2-A class. Both didn’t face each other on the mat.
McKnight made the finals of the Chicago The Opening Regional one-on-ones as one of the top performers in the trenches."
This was also said about the camps.
"Iowa is putting together a damn good defensive line class. Detroit (Mich.) East English Village Prep defensive end Cedrick Lattimore is a guy we knew about and liked, but after seeing his teammate and fellow Hawkeyes commit Chauncey Golston on Friday, we’re not sure which defensive linemen we like better. Both bring great size, frames, athletic ability, versatility and a competitive chip on their shoulder. Those are guys that can help Iowa beat the Ohio States and the Michigan States. Another that could aid in that is Romeo McKnight. The Crystal Lake (Ill.) Central defensive end had a strong camp, is tough to defeat at the point of attack, and like the other two feels overlooked. Iowa is the team to beat for McKnight. Hawkeyes defensive line coach Seth Wallace no doubt left the Motor City feeling good about the guys he has and could potentially have coming in next year."
It's nice to see that there are a few people on here who understand what's going on.
Great articles out there on attrition if people are willing to read and learn.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you STAY all 4 or 5 years and don't get hurt, you'll have a great chance to at least get a look from the NFL no matter how many stars you have!
example: The 2010 class. They signed 22 kids that year. 9 left or had some sort of career ending injury. Leaving 13. Of those 13, nine of them were either drafted or got a look as an undrafted free agent. 9 of 13! 70%! Now that is development my friends. And if more kids would have stayed, it wouldn't have hurt that percentage because it was guys like Coker, Derby, etc...
The question everyone should be asking is not how we improve recruiting, but how do we improve retention. I guaranty you that's the focus of this current recruiting cycle. kids that want to be hawks AND that the coaches believe will STA
"Skokie (Ill.) Niles North running back Barrington Wade has the size, 6-foot-1, 201-pounds that college coaches covet.
From an athleticism standpoint. the 2016 prospect posted the seventh best Nike Football Rating Score at the recent The Opening Regional in Chicago, including a 4.67 laser timed 40-yard dash, a 4.27 shuttle and a 38-1 inch vertical."
From an athleticism standpoint. the 2016 prospect posted the seventh best Nike Football Rating Score at the recent The Opening Regional in Chicago, including a 4.67 laser timed 40-yard dash, a 4.27 shuttle and a 38-1 inch vertical."
You make a good point about attrition. However, of the 13 players that stayed from that class, 10 of them had other power 5 conference offers coming out of high school. Most had pretty good power 5 offers. Do you think we will be able to say the same about this class where the majority don't have power 5 offers and the ones that do are mostly from places like Iowa State, Indiana, Syracuse, etc? I know there are some like Toks that have some good offers but guys like that in this class have been few and far between.
Of those 10, only 1 - Trinca-Pasat - would have committed at this point in the recruiting season. IMO, the single factor that distinguishes this class from any other is the fact that we have a nearly full class before the end of June.....before any of these guys have played a single game of their senior season. We have no idea whatsoever what solid senior seasons would bring to these guys, as far as offers.....but it seems reasonable to believe that some would come. We're simply dealing with a strategy that we've never seen before, and nobody - if we're being honest - knows how its going to play out. At this stage, it really boils down to whether someone trusts the staff's ability to evaluate talent.
The NFL didn't look at how many Power5 offers they had when they invited them to camp. It's irrelevant. Are you trying to tell me the difference between someone developing into NFL material is determined by whether Mich St. offered a kid that went to Iowa? Do you understand how ridiculous that sounds? A players work ethic and how much he grows mentally and physically will determine whether the become NFL material, not who offered. Iowa brings in kids that they TOTALLY believe can become outstanding players in 3-4 yrs. Everyone of them, or they wouldn't recruit them. But the have to stay and stay healthy for 4-5 yrs.!!! Period.
I think you missed a couple (Morris and Hardy) but still a good point. I might be jumping the gun a bit on the kinds of offers these kids have, but my point remains that at the end of the day you generally want to have guys that were coveted by other good programs. I don't mean that as a blanket statement, there will always be outliers.
Quit thinking small scale, I'm talking big picture here. Obviously you aren't going to base your recruiting decisions on the offers a kid has from another school. That's ridiculous. You evaluate and get the guys you want. However, there is definitely a correlation between star rating/offers and success in college. So when you're looking (as a fan) big picture at a class and you see a bunch of low 3 stars and 2 stars with out a lot of big time offers, it's concerning. That is all. Now they could strike gold with this class and hit on a bunch of guys that the bigger schools overlooked. History would tell us that this could happen, but isn't as likely as striking gold with a class full of a bunch of high 3 stars and 4 stars. This is generally speaking and can not be applied to every single recruit. I would hope you would understand this but sometimes I wonder.
Yep, my bad. Honestly, I think I was distracted by how late some of those guys committed! Which, of course, stresses the fan base in a whole different way!! This whole early strategy is very hard to get our collective heads around, I think. But a couple of things I'm encouraged by are: 1) just the simple fact that the staff made a strategic decision to really shake things up (how often have we said that??) and 2) on the heels of a very disappointing season they seem to have created some positive energy. We have recruits talking about being a part of getting things back on track, competing for championships, etc. IMO, that's not insignificant stuff.
Since 2007, in fact, Iowa has had more 3-star recruits (or worse) drafted than Auburn has had players drafted, period.
That is development my friend!
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...loped-most-nfl-draft-picks-over-last-10-years
That is development my friend!
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...loped-most-nfl-draft-picks-over-last-10-years
Who cares how many players get drafted? Auburn has won a hell of a lot more games including an NC the we have. I'll coach-up 4 and 5 star players and beat your 2 an 3's.
Failure to win is always the coaches fault. Either inadequate recruiting for the level of competition or inability to coach the players that would otherwise be winning more games.
We are perilously close to hitting the death spiral, assuming we are not there already.
We are perilously close to hitting the death spiral, assuming we are not there already.
IMO, to answer the original question (?), I think the current staff could coach up all these "2* & 3*" recruits. The bigger question in relation to this is will they get the chance to? Realistically we are at least 2 to 3 years out before these kids can be "coached up". If we don't get more W's over the next couple of years it may not matter. I certainly hope they get the chance to as I am in the camp that this is a pretty good group of recruits no matter what the star ratings are.
I think they can, but lets face it the diamonds in the rough statement is long gone. Yes there is always a 1-2 star player who shines, but most of the stars are kids rated top 100.
Now they have top 200 and top 300. Didn't it used to be top 50? There are more camps so kids can get exposed. Hell all they have to do is put a video on Youtube and send the link out and coaches will see it.
I think the Iowa coaching staff is good at developing O-line and D-Line. Sadly we haven't had any QB, WR, and RB's develop since Shonne Green and McNutt. Iowa's TE, OL, and DL are always good and it goes to show that those coaches are good at developing their players. Now if we can get a good QB coach and some good WR coaches, we would be really good. Soup leaving really hurt our WR's.
Now they have top 200 and top 300. Didn't it used to be top 50? There are more camps so kids can get exposed. Hell all they have to do is put a video on Youtube and send the link out and coaches will see it.
I think the Iowa coaching staff is good at developing O-line and D-Line. Sadly we haven't had any QB, WR, and RB's develop since Shonne Green and McNutt. Iowa's TE, OL, and DL are always good and it goes to show that those coaches are good at developing their players. Now if we can get a good QB coach and some good WR coaches, we would be really good. Soup leaving really hurt our WR's.
Whatever Soup did at Iowa sure didn't "help" his resume
He couldn't land a decent college job, ended up in the CFL, where he was fired in season,and now is in an admin/non coaching role at Michigan.
He couldn't land a decent college job, ended up in the CFL, where he was fired in season,and now is in an admin/non coaching role at Michigan.
I agree with the posts about retention. Obviously every class is going to have a few people leave for playing time, not right fit, etc. But the key is that the players leaving wouldnt have an impact anyway. Iowa's problem is that they have lost good players that seemed like a good fit that would contribute to a better team. There is no possible way of knowing whether this class will stay together and put together some good teams.
But, ironically, one thing that leads me to believe we will have some good football teams out of this class is that Ferentz and co have the pressure on them to make it happen. It is put up or shut up time for this Iowa Football team and there arent any more 2nd chances. I think we will a more driven program. At least that's what I hope. Let's get back to being the Bullies of the Big Ten
But, ironically, one thing that leads me to believe we will have some good football teams out of this class is that Ferentz and co have the pressure on them to make it happen. It is put up or shut up time for this Iowa Football team and there arent any more 2nd chances. I think we will a more driven program. At least that's what I hope. Let's get back to being the Bullies of the Big Ten
I think you are missing his point. Other Power 5 schools also recognized the talent of most of those kids and offered them scholarships. They may have been 3 star players like this class but they had offers from Michigan St, Missouri or Nebraska for example. But thus far only about half of this class has another Power 5 offer and even then, most of those Power 5 offers are not from good football schools. It appears this class may be less talented than your example because far fewer solid programs have offered. And the harsh truth is that even at Iowa, project players often remain just that.
sweet avatar rifler!
and for the question if they can coach them up? I pray to the God of skinny punks that they can.
It would be nice if the number of Iowa players making it to the NFL relative to other programs was somehow translating to wins on the field. For whatever reason that doesn't seem to be happening as one might expect.
You can't win Championships in college football without big time QB play. This is what has been missing at Iowa
