Burglary charges filed....

[PapaBearSLIM]

Well Zain just competed at 145 at the Freestyle Junior Nationals losing to Pico in the finals. It would seem that he would be pretty undersized at 149 6 months from now. Zain's a good-sized 141 (not huge, but perfect frame for the weight, he'd look small next to the top 149 lbers) Zain would certainly be the pre season #1 at 141 with Steebler, Mitchell Port and Devin Carter graduating. The highest returning all American is Dean Heil, who was mediocre until the national tournament. I think Zain would be a heavy favorite to win at 141. 149 on the other hand has some returning studs in Tsirtsis, Sorensen and Clagon. Also Richardson from Old Dominion and Neff from Lock Haven are returning all Americans as well. Assuming Hunter Steiber is healthy, he's at least a strong AA candidate and I'm not buying the rumor that he's cutting down to 141.

My 2 cents

Day before weigh-ins allow some guys to get down a little further than they would in season. With the next world team weight being 163 and filled with kids that wrestled 160-170 in season, 145.5 was the best/only option to wrestle at a world weight for Retherford. Weighing in at 145.5 now would not be indicative of being undersized for a weight class 3.5 lbs heavier 6 months from now.

Also Retherford has never been much of a weight cutter so I wouldn't be surprised if he wrestled 149 even if he is undersized. That being said I agree with you that he looks to have a better shot at 141 than 149.

 

[hwksforlife]

The day before weigh ins makes a huge difference. Papa pretty much summed it up.

 

[dicemen99]

Day before weigh-ins allow some guys to get down a little further than they would in season. With the next world team weight being 163 and filled with kids that wrestled 160-170 in season, 145.5 was the best/only option to wrestle at a world weight for Retherford. Weighing in at 145.5 now would not be indicative of being undersized for a weight class 3.5 lbs heavier 6 months from now.

Also Retherford has never been much of a weight cutter so I wouldn't be surprised if he wrestled 149 even if he is undersized. That being said I agree with you that he looks to have a better shot at 141 than 149.

It was reported that a family member stated that making the 145.5 for a one day weigh in was NOT easy for Zain. I don't think there is any question that he will be at 149 this year. Watch his match against Oliver, there does not seem to be a marked difference in size between the two. He's not going to be undersized at all at 149 and will be one of the favorites to win the title.

Of course this is undersized from a PSU perspective, lol. I realize I am posting this on the HR board where half the posters still think that 141 is Grothus' best weight and are convinced he would be a high AA there without ever having seen him step on the mat after having to make that weight under NCAA weighin rules.

 

[pablow]

I guess I don't get this reasoning. How is it any different breaking into the garage vs. the house? It's not your property. You shouldn't be taking stuff from other persons' homes. Being drunk is not an excuse. On what basis do you say this is not "premeditated" robbery? How does burglary happen on the spur of the moment? You have to actually drive to the locations, go into the buildings and take stuff. And then do it repeatedly. By that same logic, people who get high and then break into cars or garages just thought it was "harmless."

There is a huge difference between what they are accused of doing and getting drunk and turning over trash cans or urinating in the street. Whatever punishment comes to them will not be the courts ruining their lives. It will be (hopefully) appropriate punishment for crimes committed. They are the ones to blame for any ruining of their lives.

Diceman - very weak transition from paragraph #1, your actual informative post, to paragraph # 2, your obligatory insult. Ideally you're gonna need a better transition or somebody might get the idea that your just a troll.

 

[dicemen99]

Diceman - very weak transition from paragraph #1, your actual informative post, to paragraph # 2, your obligatory insult. Ideally you're gonna need a better transition or somebody might get the idea that your just a troll.

Not obligatory at all. Just a little sensitive to weight issues and the idea that guys are wrestling "small for the weight." There are guys like this over on the PSU board, too. Repeatingly posting that they think Beitz should go down to 41 because he looks "too small" or "not powerful enough" even though the kid has repeatedly stated he could never make 141 again. Just seems like a lot more of them on this board - maybe because there are more posters.

This type of mentality should be an anathema in wrestling circles - it is really harmful to the sport. Drastic weight cuts don't make a kid more mentally tough, nor is it good to be "taking one for the team." More times than not taking one for the team results in a reduced performance, often drastic.

In regards to Grothus, the kid tried to make 41 last year and couldn't do it. Now some people are again advocating he try again, because of lineup issues and perceived weakness of the weight class. The kid is another year older, hopefully building more muscle mass (not less) through training and people want him to take one for the team. I saw a poster posit that the offseason would be the proper time to do this - as opposed to inseason last year when he attempted to do this over a 6 week period while training every day????? So, basically what this poster was advocating was a reshaping of Grothus' body - stripping it of muscle weight pretty much entirely - because of a hole in the lineup below, on the supposition that he will perform better there??? What evidence is there of that???? He won't be bigger than the guys down there anymore, probably not stronger and I'm not sure he is quick enough for them.

Just a rant off mine - I see this mentality all the time in the sport and it bleeds down to the most inexperienced mentors at the youth levels. It really needs to be eradicated. International wrestling is a whole different animal in respect to weigh in rules and the athletes exposure to controlled environments in regards to training and supervision. NCAA level is fairly sophisticated and cutting will of course be part of a competitive edge and can be expected to a point. But under these conditions, Grothus has already attempted this and his body was not able to respond. The type of mentality opining that he should try this again is what I'm talking about. Maybe there were extenuating circumstances and Grothus and Brands would have enough information available that he would be successful, maybe. But there is no one on this board that should be advocating that he should suck it up do it again - no one. That same mentality lurks just below the surface in the Retherford post above - I get it, I see it all the time around me. And it exerts a subtle pressure throughout the sport on the competitors that needs to be eradicated. Not for the benefit of the guys we are talking about - these guys - Grothus, Retherford - most likely know what's what. But for the guys at the youth, MS and HS levels.

End of rant. It's a sensitive subject for me. Didn't mean to go so off topic.

 

[pablow]

No foul. I didn't inderstand your post; now I do. Peace!

 

[hwksforlife]

Diceman: I don't know if Brody can make 41 or not but he didn't go into last years attempt in a good situation. Remember he had a severe injury that kept him off the mat a long time. It's pretty hard to cut weight when you can't run or wrestle for several weeks. I don't care what weight he goes but you obviously don't know much about the situation.

 

[MSU158]

You can hate weight cutting and talking about weight cutting all you want. As long as there are weight classes and only 1 guy can man each weight, there will be unhealthy weight cutting both pushed on a wrestler and solely desired by the wrestler.

It is simple. Do you want to be a room wrestler for 4 years? Very few do. If you are really good, but there is a returning AA senior in your weight, do you want to only start 3 years? Even fewer do. If you really want to wrestle a weight class but lose the weight mid season do you want to give up on the season? If the choice is either not wrestle or cut an extra 8 lbs which would you choose?

The part even more people don't understand is the jump of 8 lbs. 90+ percent of DI wrestlers will get manhandled by top competition if they are undersized. This is a big reason why you rarely see wrestlers "bump up" like they do in High School. Everyone says you should just eat healthy and build muscle mass. Do you know how long it takes to properly put on 8 lbs of lean muscle under ideal conditions?(let alone while taking College classes and dealing with 6 hours of practice per day) As much as weight cutting sucks it is often easier to go down that weight than it is to just go up a weight and be competitive.

Some things just suck. But, as they say, they are sometimes part of the job.

 

[dicemen99]

You can hate weight cutting and talking about weight cutting all you want. As long as there are weight classes and only 1 guy can man each weight, there will be unhealthy weight cutting both pushed on a wrestler and solely desired by the wrestler.

It is simple. Do you want to be a room wrestler for 4 years? Very few do. If you are really good, but there is a returning AA senior in your weight, do you want to only start 3 years? Even fewer do. If you really want to wrestle a weight class but lose the weight mid season do you want to give up on the season? If the choice is either not wrestle or cut an extra 8 lbs which would you choose?

The part even more people don't understand is the jump of 8 lbs. 90+ percent of DI wrestlers will get manhandled by top competition if they are undersized. This is a big reason why you rarely see wrestlers "bump up" like they do in High School. Everyone says you should just eat healthy and build muscle mass. Do you know how long it takes to properly put on 8 lbs of lean muscle under ideal conditions?(let alone while taking College classes and dealing with 6 hours of practice per day) As much as weight cutting sucks it is often easier to go down that weight than it is to just go up a weight and be competitive.

Some things just suck. But, as they say, they are sometimes part of the job.

This is a straw man argument. I don't disagree with anything you just posted. Jumping up a weight class mid season is not advisable for most wrestlers in NCAA D1.

Grothus attempted to make the cut last year mid season like you suggest and couldn't do it. I'd suggest that another attempt will probably result in the same unless there is some body reshaping involved. I'm not suggesting that he made a mistake trying last year when he got painted into a corner.

And I certainly don't get the mentality that the athlete will perform better under these conditions - that is primarily the mindset that I am railing against here, and one that is pretty common in the sport.

Yes, I have an idea how hard it is to put on 8lbs of lean muscle (and it's a heck of a lot easier for a guy at 22yo, than an old fart of 50 like me, lol). I also have an idea of how hard it is to suck another 6% of water weight out of a body that is already dehydrating itself to make the weight and perform optimally in the short term and even worse, over the long haul. Both are hard choices.

My issue is with the posters who throw these things around here like one of the choices is easy and the better choice. And that there aren't any negative consequences to it.

 

[dicemen99]

And I've been around a long time watching wrestling, and I can honestly say that I've seen just as many wrestlers under perform because of drastic or poorly managed cuts as I've seen wrestlers under perform because they are too small for the weight class. I'm sure you have too if you think about it.

Are you trying to tell me that it is more desirable to under perform because of lack of endurance, rather than lack of strength????

Just making a point...your premise has at it's foundation that Grothus would have performed better at 141 than at 157 last year. I find that flawed - it is undetermined. The fact that it is not even being considered to be debatable by some is the problem.

 

[MSU158]

Dicemen99,

I am not saying anything you said is wrong. I agree with your premise. In fact, if you look back, I was BLASTED on here for my comments regarding Grothus at 141. A large part of it was me saying that he wasn't any more proven than Dziewa was. But still, a part of it was how well he would react to cutting the weight.

I absolutely grew to despise cutting weight. But I also didn't really believe I would be as effective at 167. Cutting weight isn't Black and White. There truly are many shades of grey. It has to be looked at as a case by case basis and monitored super closely. In the end I would prefer calling it managing your weight under a proper regimen. But there will always be certain circumstances that mandate the cut for either the team's best interests or the wrestler's(if he wants to be a starter).

 

[hwksforlife]

Brody also certified at 141. How accurate is the correlation between certified weight and ability to make that weight?

 

[newattitude]

and once again, another thread goes way off topic

 

[dicemen99]

Brody also certified at 141. How accurate is the correlation between certified weight and ability to make that weight?

About as accurate as all the factors going into the certification. Which varies - quite a bit.

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

This is a straw man argument. I don't disagree with anything you just posted. Jumping up a weight class mid season is not advisable for most wrestlers in NCAA D1.

Grothus attempted to make the cut last year mid season like you suggest and couldn't do it. I'd suggest that another attempt will probably result in the same unless there is some body reshaping involved. I'm not suggesting that he made a mistake trying last year when he got painted into a corner.

And I certainly don't get the mentality that the athlete will perform better under these conditions - that is primarily the mindset that I am railing against here, and one that is pretty common in the sport.

Yes, I have an idea how hard it is to put on 8lbs of lean muscle (and it's a heck of a lot easier for a guy at 22yo, than an old fart of 50 like me, lol). I also have an idea of how hard it is to suck another 6% of water weight out of a body that is already dehydrating itself to make the weight and perform optimally in the short term and even worse, over the long haul. Both are hard choices.

My issue is with the posters who throw these things around here like one of the choices is easy and the better choice. And that there aren't any negative consequences to it.

I don't think you give most of us near enough credit.There are alot of us that actually wrestled and know, for the most part, what we are talking about. If Brody would have started in March getting ready to wrestle 141 this year he could easily do it and will be quite successful. He tried last year after an injury kept him off the mat for several weeks and wasn't in top shape to start the descent. He had certain time constraints of when he had to be there and it all caught up to him when he was at 141.9.
Now, playing devils advocate, he could add a little mass and strength in the time span from March to November also. We will know which he decided in a few months. Some already know.

 

[moosemonster]

Yeah, sorry, but I think you are an idiot. Doesn't matter when Brody starts cutting. He is not getting back down to 141, much less dominating there.

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

Yeah, sorry, but I think you are an idiot. Doesn't matter when Brody starts cutting. He is not getting back down to 141, much less dominating there.

So I am an idiot for thinking that in 7 or 8 months he couldn't drop 9 tenths of a pound more than he did in a few weeks after being injured for several weeks and not being able to go 100%. Got it.
Do me a favor, call somebody else some names, tough guy.

 

[TarpHawk]

Gotta say I'm not a big fan of the name calling by those whose opinions on a topic differ from others'. I don't know if Grothus can be effective at 141, and that's his business. But he certified at 141 and he's not a huge 149-pounder, and Iowa already has a really good 149-pounder. So I don't quite get where the venom is coming from. I agree with Weh8. Some of us actually do know what we're talking about, and the thinly veiled barbs about the "mentality" of people who dare speak of such atrocities as cutting 8 pounds, I find irritating. Have your opinion. No need to belittle everyone who disagrees with you. Sheesh.

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

I don't care what weight he goes as I'm sure he'll do what's best for him but I'm also sure Grothus isn't walking around under 150 lbs so it wouldn't be cutting 8 pounds it would be cutting 8 additional pounds.

 

[MVPFAN]

I don't care what weight he goes as I'm sure he'll do what's best for him but I'm also sure Grothus isn't walking around under 150 lbs so it wouldn't be cutting 8 pounds it would be cutting 8 additional pounds.

It was stated he was over 160 in no time after he could not make 141 before so you are very correct. I personally feel he can't make the weight and still perform so I hope he is working on being the best 157 pounder he can be.

 

[dicemen99]

I don't think you give most of us near enough credit.There are alot of us that actually wrestled and know, for the most part, what we are talking about.

Some of us actually do know what we're talking about, and the thinly veiled barbs about the "mentality" of people who dare speak of such atrocities as cutting 8 pounds, I find irritating. Have your opinion. No need to belittle everyone who disagrees with you. Sheesh.

I'm under the assumption that most everyone on this board wrestled at some time or the other, otherwise they likely wouldn't be a frequent poster here. In my experience that doesn't amount to a whole hill of beans when it comes to this topic. In fact, for the most part, former wrestlers are precisely the problem. Myself included for many years.

I was about to write a long rebuttal here - I'm sure many of you are glad I'm not. Sufficed to say, my opinion is that this topic needs a paradigm shift in the wrestling world. I get that Tarp and others might not think 8lb weight cuts and some other stuff is not a big deal to opine about, and in many cases are not that big a deal in real world. But the reality of the situation is that when you treat it as such, all it does is reinforce a lot of uninformed opinions held by wrestling mentors (who in most cases wrestled) who are involved at the grass roots level in the sport. It may not seem like a big deal, but if there were a discussion about the negative effects of dehydration on performance EVERY time this issue was discussed, or if the benefits of moving UP a weight class were discussed as alternatives there might be a different tone to the conversation in the sport. Not realistic, but the conversation was slanted so far in the wrong direction for so long, I feel like it's a necessary goal personally.

It may sound like I'm crusading and maybe I am, but IMO it is a major factor in driving athletes from the sport over the long haul.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I don't care what weight he goes as I'm sure he'll do what's best for him but I'm also sure Grothus isn't walking around under 150 lbs so it wouldn't be cutting 8 pounds it would be cutting 8 additional pounds.

I hope our guys are thinking about the team in addition to their own potential for success -- not just whatever is "best for [them]". For the sake of our shot at at team title, we can't have all of our guys just shooting for weights that seem to suit them best. Many years, you need a Daryl Weber-type guy who's willing to make a sacrifice for the team. Like others, I don't think it's totally nuts to think Brody could make a very gradual, healthy cut to 141 over 6-8 months. But when you have a probably high AA returning at 149, the decision needs to be made to go up or down, and it needs to be made soon so that process can happen with the highest possible probability of success. He needs to be slowly slimming down or slowly bulking up.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I'm under the assumption that most everyone on this board wrestled at some time or the other, otherwise they likely wouldn't be a frequent poster here. In my experience that doesn't amount to a whole hill of beans when it comes to this topic. In fact, for the most part, former wrestlers are precisely the problem. Myself included for many years.

I was about to write a long rebuttal here - I'm sure many of you are glad I'm not. Sufficed to say, my opinion is that this topic needs a paradigm shift in the wrestling world. I get that Tarp and others might not think 8lb weight cuts and some other stuff is not a big deal to opine about, and in many cases are not that big a deal in real world. But the reality of the situation is that when you treat it as such, all it does is reinforce a lot of uninformed opinions held by wrestling mentors (who in most cases wrestled) who are involved at the grass roots level in the sport. It may not seem like a big deal, but if there were a discussion about the negative effects of dehydration on performance EVERY time this issue was discussed, or if the benefits of moving UP a weight class were discussed as alternatives there might be a different tone to the conversation in the sport. Not realistic, but the conversation was slanted so far in the wrong direction for so long, I feel like it's a necessary goal personally.

It may sound like I'm crusading and maybe I am, but IMO it is a major factor in driving athletes from the sport over the long haul.

You have a valid point, but it's all about how the cut is made, IMO. If it's determined that the cut is just too drastic to be sustainable and healthy, that's one thing. It shouldn't be attempted in that case. However, if it's determined otherwise, and if the cut is made in a very gradual manner, without undue dehydration or any other unhealthy effects, I see no problem with it. What Brody tried this past season was clearly far too rapid and drastic, but there's a huge difference between cutting that amount over 6-8 months and trying to get it done in several weeks. Given lots of time to gradually acclimate to reduced body mass, the body can function remarkably well.

 

[Huck]

I have no clue if Grothus could make that cut, obviously it would make us stronger...but to be fair, when Weber made his cut the rules were very different. You had morning or day before weigh ins, not an hour before...we all know that's huge. Plus often times you got a major pound allowance until deeper in the season and post season. There were times I remember getting 6 to 8 pounds early on in the season, later it dropped to 3 pounds but it seemed you always got something until the post season.
I think weight cutting is also detrimental to our sport and would actually be in favor of mat side weigh ins but I also realize this is D1 wrestling and it's a "whole nother" world. I just hope the kids do what they can to make the strongest team possible while staying healthy.

 

[so cal hawkfan]

I have no clue if Grothus could make that cut, obviously it would make us stronger...but to be fair, when Weber made his cut the rules were very different. You had morning or day before weigh ins, not an hour before...we all know that's huge. Plus often times you got a major pound allowance until deeper in the season and post season. There were times I remember getting 6 to 8 pounds early on in the season, later it dropped to 3 pounds but it seemed you always got something until the post season.
I think weight cutting is also detrimental to our sport and would actually be in favor of mat side weigh ins but I also realize this is D1 wrestling and it's a "whole nother" world. I just hope the kids do what they can to make the strongest team possible while staying healthy.

I for one am not of the opinion that Grothus at 141 makes us stronger. Grothus will struggle with that weight cut over the course of a season, especially multiple weigh in tourneys like Midlands, B10's and NCAAs. Assuming he goes down, we would have a weakened Brody at 141, Brandon at 149 and then Ryan, Rhoads or Cooper at 157. I like the option of Carton at 141, Brandon at 149 and a beefed up Brody at 157.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Brody wouldn't be able to handle the cut if he made it very gradually during the off-season. I suspect we'd be strongest with Grothus at 141, Sorensen at 149, and a beefed-up Cooper at 157 (remember that Cooper was 149 for a good part of last season, so he was quite undersized at 157). That said, I'm fine with Brody moving up, but whatever he decides, the process needs to be starting right about now, at the latest.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

I was following the Grothus threads when he was cutting and felt it was highly unlikely that he could be effective if he made the weight in such a short time frame. That being said, I can see why you guys would love to see him there next year. The weight class really clears out from graduation and Retherford is moving up so 141 is there for the taking. I suspect the decision has already been made as to what direction he is headed, you just need to find out if Brody is spending his off season in the weight room or on the treadmill.

 

[1stplacehawk]

141: Topher Carton or Vince Turk
157: Grothus, Rhoads, Cooper, Kemerer

Don't be surprised if freshman are competing for 141 and 157. If they give us a chance to win a title, they're going to be on the mat.

 

[dicemen99]

I have no clue if Grothus could make that cut, obviously it would make us stronger...but to be fair, when Weber made his cut the rules were very different. You had morning or day before weigh ins, not an hour before...we all know that's huge. Plus often times you got a major pound allowance until deeper in the season and post season. There were times I remember getting 6 to 8 pounds early on in the season, later it dropped to 3 pounds but it seemed you always got something until the post season.
I think weight cutting is also detrimental to our sport and would actually be in favor of mat side weigh ins but I also realize this is D1 wrestling and it's a "whole nother" world. I just hope the kids do what they can to make the strongest team possible while staying healthy.

I love your thinking. I have been on board with this for years. I have yet to see a legitimate argument why this is not feasible.

 

[littlefella]

If his normal healthy walk around weight is 160, and he is tall, 141 wouldn't be a healthy cut, and he would be a stick man at his height, then we would be trying to figure out how somone so big for the wt class is still weak. You need muscle to be strong, and people who cut way to much just can't have much muscle on their frame. This related back to the thread on the S&C coach. A good one could take him to a musclar upper 160's to 170 during off season, and slowly lean up to 157 for season. He would be much stronger and healthier during the season,a nd could concentrate on his wrestling instead of wt cutting. Hefflin from OSU went from 174 to 197 in one off season, and he looked like a big 197, and did better than he ever did at 174. Plus, it's much more enjoyable trying to gain wt in off season than doing a longterm starvation routine.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

That may turn out to be the better way to go. Of course, Cooper is likely doing the same thing, and I'm sure he'll have something to say about who starts at 157. We'd be deep at 157 and thin at 141. Some would call 141 a hole without Grothus there. Hopefully Carton can prove otherwise, assuming he's the guy.

 

[dicemen99]

That may turn out to be the better way to go. Of course, Cooper is likely doing the same thing, and I'm sure he'll have something to say about who starts at 157. We'd be deep at 157 and thin at 141. Some would call 141 a hole without Grothus there. Hopefully Carton can prove otherwise, assuming he's the guy.

I like the direction this thread is turning. Who said you Hawkeye fans were all bad???? Good stuff.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

If his normal healthy walk around weight is 160, and he is tall, 141 wouldn't be a healthy cut, and he would be a stick man at his height, then we would be trying to figure out how somone so big for the wt class is still weak. You need muscle to be strong, and people who cut way to much just can't have much muscle on their frame...

Does anyone know how much weight McDonough cut during his career. He stayed at 125 all four years and was always on the "big" side of that weight IMO. I really don't know Grothus' situation and whether he can get down to 141 with 6-8 months to do it right or not. BUT...if he could, then it is only for 4-5 months of his life, as I think he will be a senior.

Again, I don't have enough information to say whether he can or should, BUT...with a 6+ month head start and only doing it for a relatively short period of time, maybe it can be done successfully. Perhaps they could even hold him out of early season competitions to reduce the number of weigh ins. Just because he hit the wall this past season does not, to me, automatically mean he cannot do it. The two situations are quite different...a mid-season attempt to drop v. a 6 month period of transition.

If he can get down and be effective, even if it is just for the "right" 2-3 months, then I feel like he is more of a potential point scorer at NCAA's than Dziewa was this year.

 

[hwksforlife]

I love your thinking. I have been on board with this for years. I have yet to see a legitimate argument why this is not feasible.

I too agree with this. Put the scale mat side and wrestle what you way. You would have less kids burning out in this instance and less negative publicity.

 

[moosemonster]

Grothus is a legit 5' 11". His "walk around" weight is closer to 170 than 160. He bounced to 160 on just liquids after his failed cut. I am all for sacrifice for the team. But if you can't go lower, doesn't matter how many guys at home on their couch want you to try.

 

[86_90]

Grothus is a legit 5' 11". His "walk around" weight is closer to 170 than 160. He bounced to 160 on just liquids after his failed cut. I am all for sacrifice for the team. But if you can't go lower, doesn't matter how many guys at home on their couch want you to try.

And if Brands and Company were to hire a professional S&C coach, then that coach would be able to determine whether an athlete's physical frame and composition was more competitively suited to @141 or @157. Let a professional determine and guide the wrestlers using year long plans based on team needs and the wrestler's aspirations. If the wrestler is determined to "buck" the S&C coach and Brands, then at least there is a professional in place to develop a comprehensive plan of action to help him meet his individual goals.

 

[mike tognetti]

The problem with S&C coach at Iowa is he isn't a S&C coach but a ex wrestler with no degree in that field. As for the coaches, they are old school, tough as nails but think anybody can drop 20 pounds and wrestle the same way (John Smith is the same way). OSU has their own S&C coach which isn't a wrestler and doing a great job with the program. Didn't want to post on this matter just because it's giving us the inside track. Could it be all your injuries at the end of the season be happening from over training (mat and S&C)?

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

And if Brands and Company were to hire a professional S&C coach, then that coach would be able to determine whether an athlete's physical frame and composition was more competitively suited to @141 or @157. Let a professional determine and guide the wrestlers using year long plans based on team needs and the wrestler's aspirations. If the wrestler is determined to "buck" the S&C coach and Brands, then at least there is a professional in place to develop a comprehensive plan of action to help him meet his individual goals.

Exactly.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

The problem with S&C coach at Iowa is he isn't a S&C coach but a ex wrestler with no degree in that field. As for the coaches, they are old school, tough as nails but think anybody can drop 20 pounds and wrestle the same way (John Smith is the same way). OSU has their own S&C coach which isn't a wrestler and doing a great job with the program. Didn't want to post on this matter just because it's giving us the inside track. Could it be all your injuries at the end of the season be happening from over training (mat and S&C)?

That's the whole point. I think most fans agree we need an actual S&C coach rather than an ex-wrestler with no more S&C knowledge than anyone else in the program. Some have worked with Coach Doyle from the football program over they years, but he presumably doesn't have the time to properly oversee the wrestling program in addition to the football program. In cases like Brody's, it would be a big help to have an objective expert giving input on whether it's better to go up or down, and with the knowledge to help him make the change as effectively as possible. I'm becoming more and more convinced that this change needs to be made.

And don't worry, mike -- this wasn't some tightly-held secret in Stillwater. You don't have to lose sleep over letting us in on it. Iowa fans have been calling for a true S&C coach for years.

 

[wamachie]

The problem with S&C coach at Iowa is he isn't a S&C coach but a ex wrestler with no degree in that field. As for the coaches, they are old school, tough as nails but think anybody can drop 20 pounds and wrestle the same way (John Smith is the same way). OSU has their own S&C coach which isn't a wrestler and doing a great job with the program. Didn't want to post on this matter just because it's giving us the inside track. Could it be all your injuries at the end of the season be happening from over training (mat and S&C)?

Bingo