Cyclone Gabe Moreno arrested

[so cal hawkfan]

Saw the story on Intermat. Not exactly current event as he was arrested for DUI on Friday the 10th. Story says he is suspended indefinitely from the Cyclone wrestling team. I thought the Clones had a pretty good off season, this is obviously an unwanted distraction. I'm sure he won't miss too much mat time, but a distraction nonetheless.

 

[DonHawkeye]

We should start holding a pool for off season arrests. You could have the schools on the x axis and the arrest type on the y axis. Put me in for 4 squares.

 

[jammenz]

At least it wasn't a "permanent suspension".

 

[mcsorley]

At least it wasn't a "permanent suspension".

Should have been.

 

[Good30]

He is young and is going to make some mistakes! Some may cast a few stones at him but hopefully it ends up being a lesson learned and he responds well in his development as a person.

 

[MSU158]

mcsorley,

Pretty harsh. Do you realize how many college athletes would be "permanently suspended" if that was the punishment for 1st time offenses?

 

[MitchL]

What is really funny was the reaction on the two ISU wrestling forums. The OP in one forum was blasted for posting the story, while on CF the reaction was much different. The total number of avid wrestling fans(nine) are pretty sensitive about it and one of them, somehow, managed to even mention the Hawks in the conversation.

 

[pumpdog20]

Not all first time offenses are created equal. A DUI in a vehicle is very serious and should be punished as such. I would have liked to see a one year ban. That's hawkeyes included.

 

[WildTurk]

Lil Moreno has turned into a pretty darn good wrestler really. Never really expected much out of him out of high school. He seem so small and lanky. But funky! Didn't him and Sorensen have quite the match last year?

 

[mcsorley]

mcsorley,

Pretty harsh. Do you realize how many college athletes would be "permanently suspended" if that was the punishment for 1st time offenses?

No, and I don't care.

 

[MitchL]

I would think any suspension, after missing action due to rehabbing, will put a lot of pressure on him because he may not have enough D-1 matches to qualify for the post season??? Or were there changes to the qualifying system I missed?

Someone know?

 

[lenoxhawk]

I would think any suspension, after missing action due to rehabbing, will put a lot of pressure on him because he may not have enough D-1 matches to qualify for the post season??? Or were there changes to the qualifying system I missed?

Someone know?

It is doubtful he will miss many matches unless there is a history we don't know about.

 

[MSU158]

mcsorley,

These kids are in college to LEARN. What do you teach them if the 1st mistake they make(one in which no one was hurt and I realize how dangerous driving while drinking is but texting is often more dangerous) you abandon them? This is actually a chance to make Gabe a better person. Put strict rules in place and make him have to jump through hoops to prove he deserves a 2nd chance.

Did Montell Marion not deserve a 2nd chance???????

 

[Azchief32]

MSU...on the fence with this one. We just had a DUI incident in my unit where a young man was drinking at a function on base, left and rammed into a car and killed a lady. That no one was hurt in the Montell, Ruth and Moreno cases is a matter of luck IMO. For a kid the same age in the military, he or she will most likely be forced out. It's this way because we are (fairly or not) held to a higher standard. Those guys should be too.

 

[MSU158]

Azchief32,

My problem with a DUI is all are not even remotely the same. Also, INTENT is my biggest concern when judging a transaction. Stupid decisions don't excuse criminal behavior. However, I am 100% more willing to forgive that transaction than when someone willfully and maliciously intends to commit a crime.

In the end, none of us know all the details, but I was young and dumb once and know the difference between trying to commit a crime and stupidly committing one.

 

[Azchief32]

Well the risk is now on the coach and the athletic department. If he ends up hurting somebody (if there is another incident), Coach is probably out due to the community outrage.

When this happens, the thoughts seems to=1)I was a stupid kid once so I cannot judge 2)He is just doing what we expect of him. 3)Do his suspension, act contrite, and wrestle come tournament time 4) Hopefully, it never happens again

The kids know the game, and adjust their risk accordingly. He is 21 Years old (?) . Old enough to know better and the possible results of drinking and driving. When you hurt somebody, courts don't care about intent.

 

[MitchL]

I think each and every criminal offense must be judged individually. In this case, and I felt the same way with MM... this justifies immediate dismissal. There are problems like PI, store theft, simple assault... which qualify as lesser charges, to me, that would warrant less serious penalties from the school/staff.

Any charge/offense, if proved, that potentially could result in someone's serious injury or death should be cause for getting kicked off the team. Over the years, athletes have many times been given preferential treatment. Some have a sense of entitlement. Whether Mr. Moreno is a good kid, from a nice family, or anything else is immaterial.

This likely ends up with some trivial penalty from the school/coach. What I think means very little, but I would feel the same even if it was a Hawkeye wrestler.

 

[WildTurk]

Well Gabe didn't hurt anybody. Maybe it was just luck that he didnt. Regardless hopefully he learns from it and becomes a better person indeed.

Quick story. My cousin has never drank ever in her life. Two years ago we were all at X-mas having a good time with the family. She decided to have 2 glasses of 40 year old wine that my Aunt brought from her collection. Yep that's all it took to get a DUI. She got pulled over for a broken tailing and barely blew over. It was her own fault yes but it's hard to feel that she is a hardened criminal.

 

[pumpdog20]

Azchief32,

My problem with a DUI is all are not even remotely the same. Also, INTENT is my biggest concern when judging a transaction. Stupid decisions don't excuse criminal behavior. However, I am 100% more willing to forgive that transaction than when someone willfully and maliciously intends to commit a crime.

In the end, none of us know all the details, but I was young and dumb once and know the difference between trying to commit a crime and stupidly committing one.

We're not saying he should be in prision, we'll saying they should take wrestling away for a while.

 

[MSU158]

We're not saying he should be in prision, we'll saying they should take wrestling away for a while.

I wasn't arguing against the indefinite suspension. I 100% advocated that. My argument was against completely removing him from the team. McSorley said he should have been permanently removed.

I am all for making him realize what he could lose by making such a poor decision. Take wrestling away until he can prove to the Coaches and Administration that he is 100% contrite and realizes how lucky he is he didn't hurt anybody and what would happen to him if he was dumb enough to do it again.

I guess this hits home harder for me. I had a DUI in college 20 years ago. I wasn't a bad person. I had no intention of breaking the law. I honestly didn't think I drank enough to be over the limit and if I drank 1/2 a beer less I wouldn't have been. I guess I am lucky that they weren't nearly as strict about those things back then. Still, I learned my lesson and truly think I am a better person because of what I learned from that mistake. As I said before, a DUI in College is so often more a stupid mistake than an intentional criminal one. As a result, I think the punishment should be less severe.

Also, I am shocked someone thinks theft is a lesser crime than a DUI. When you are stealing(and I don't care what it is) you are INTENTIONALLY hurting someone else.

 

[pumpdog20]

I wasn't arguing against the indefinite suspension. I 100% advocated that. My argument was against completely removing him from the team. McSorley said he should have been permanently removed.

I am all for making him realize what he could lose by making such a poor decision. Take wrestling away until he can prove to the Coaches and Administration that he is 100% contrite and realizes how lucky he is he didn't hurt anybody and what would happen to him if he was dumb enough to do it again.

I guess this hits home harder for me. I had a DUI in college 20 years ago. I wasn't a bad person. I had no intention of breaking the law. I honestly didn't think I drank enough to be over the limit and if I drank 1/2 a beer less I wouldn't have been. I guess I am lucky that they weren't nearly as strict about those things back then. Still, I learned my lesson and truly think I am a better person because of what I learned from that mistake. As I said before, a DUI in College is so often more a stupid mistake than an intentional criminal one. As a result, I think the punishment should be less severe.

Also, I am shocked someone thinks theft is a lesser crime than a DUI. When you are stealing(and I don't care what it is) you are INTENTIONALLY hurting someone else.

Sounds like we're on the same page for the most part. Personally, we allow 2nd chances before they're even earned. I think a very long suspension is deserving (and if it would have been a senior, he would have been out of luck). Just because you didn't have intention of breaking the law doesn't make it a good excuse. Getting behind the wheel while impaired is dangerous. And if we can get to the point where people don't even try it, because the consequences are too great, that would be best. At some point, someone needs to be made an example. Or you end up like FSU football.

As far as theft being a lesser crime, it definitely can be. If one of your loved ones was killed by a drunk driver, wouldn't you have preferred they just steal from you? I'm sure that's what that person was getting at.

 

[MSU158]

pumpdog20,

We are nearly in 100% agreement. It would be great if we could remove the choice to drive drunk 100%. My only area of contention is no matter how it happens I obviously wouldn't want a loved one killed. Still, I would be more willing to forgive a young kid who had never been in trouble before if it happened in a DUI related incident than if someone stole from them and killed them in the process. Accidents happen. They are a part of life. The decision to get behind the wheel while drinking is most likely not an accident but the resulting fatality almost definitely would be.

 

[ping72]

Also, I am shocked someone thinks theft is a lesser crime than a DUI. When you are stealing(and I don't care what it is) you are INTENTIONALLY hurting someone else.

In my mind, knowing what will happen is just a relevant as knowing what could reasonably happen. If you steal you know you are taking someone else's property. If you drive intoxicated you know that there is a good chance that you could kill somebody (much more so than driving any other time).

Is intentionally punching somebody in the stomach really better than playing with a machine gun and accidentally unloading fire into a preschool?

 

[MSU158]

DUI is a very hard topic to discuss and an anology of bringing a machine gun to preschool is bit of a stretch comparing to someone who's decision making is just as impaired as their driving would inevitably be. Although we use a scientific formula to gauge someone's level of intoxication, it still varies a significant amount from person to person. Also, someone with a BAC of .08 is often treated the same as .24 in the court system even though they aren't even remotely close.

The biggest problem is alcohol "AND" driving are a significant part of a substantial amount of peoples' lives. I would be willing to wager that 80%+ of Americans above drinking age have drank alcohol more than 5 times. I would also be willing to wager that 80%+ of those people were behind the wheel of a car at some point with alcohol in their system.

DUI is wrong and inevitably dangerous. Still, if you sat outside every restaurant and bar every day and tested each person before they drove home you would literally be floored by the amount of people that had alcohol in their system.

 

[BigSlick Suited]

I think each and every criminal offense must be judged individually. In this case, and I felt the same way with MM... this justifies immediate dismissal. There are problems like PI, store theft, simple assault... which qualify as lesser charges, to me, that would warrant less serious penalties from the school/staff.

Any charge/offense, if proved, that potentially could result in someone's serious injury or death should be cause for getting kicked off the team. Over the years, athletes have many times been given preferential treatment. Some have a sense of entitlement. Whether Mr. Moreno is a good kid, from a nice family, or anything else is immaterial.

This likely ends up with some trivial penalty from the school/coach. What I think means very little, but I would feel the same even if it was a Hawkeye wrestler.

I want to make sure I understand what you are saying. You think every athlete who gets a DUI needs to be kicked off their team immediately?

 

[mcsorley]

mcsorley,

These kids are in college to LEARN. What do you teach them if the 1st mistake they make(one in which no one was hurt and I realize how dangerous driving while drinking is but texting is often more dangerous) you abandon them? This is actually a chance to make Gabe a better person. Put strict rules in place and make him have to jump through hoops to prove he deserves a 2nd chance.

Did Montell Marion not deserve a 2nd chance???????

I understand now. Go out and get a DUI and it will put you on your way to being a "better person".

 

[WildTurk]

Might aswell start a thread in the off topic forum about DUIs. I see this is headed towards a debate. Must be the offseason

 

[MitchL]

I want to make sure I understand what you are saying. You think every athlete who gets a DUI needs to be kicked off their team immediately?

Yes!

 

[Azchief32]

I want to make sure I understand what you are saying. You think every athlete who gets a DUI needs to be kicked off their team immediately?

At least an immediate suspension for one year once its adjudicated. When I was growing up, fol

DUI is a very hard topic to discuss and an anology of bringing a machine gun to preschool is bit of a stretch comparing to someone who's decision making is just as impaired as their driving would inevitably be. Although we use a scientific formula to gauge someone's level of intoxication, it still varies a significant amount from person to person. Also, someone with a BAC of .08 is often treated the same as .24 in the court system even though they aren't even remotely close.

The biggest problem is alcohol "AND" driving are a significant part of a substantial amount of peoples' lives. I would be willing to wager that 80%+ of Americans above drinking age have drank alcohol more than 5 times. I would also be willing to wager that 80%+ of those people were behind the wheel of a car at some point with alcohol in their system.

DUI is wrong and inevitably dangerous. Still, if you sat outside every restaurant and bar every day and tested each person before they drove home you would literally be floored by the amount of people that had alcohol in their system.

Here are some stats from the CDC:

• In 2013, 10,076 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (31%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.1
• Of the 1,149 traffic deaths among children ages 0 to 14 years in 2013, 200 (17%) involved an alcohol-impaired driver.1
• Of the 200 child passengers ages 14 and younger who died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes in 2013, over half (121) were riding in the vehicle with the alcohol-impaired driver.1
• In 2010, over 1.4 million drivers were arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol or narcotics.3 That's one percent of the 112 million self-reported episodes of alcohol-impaired driving among U.S. adults each year.4
• Drugs other than alcohol (e.g., marijuana and cocaine) are involved in about 18% of motor vehicle driver deaths. These other drugs are often used in combination with alcohol.

Look, I'm no saint. When I was growing up, I rode with a lot of people who were drinking and driving. I really sucked at it or else I probably would have done it more. Glad I didn't. A good kid I know who was two years behind me in school died the night after he graduated from high school. He (and other wrestlers) were out partying when he was killed in an alcohol related accident. One of the nicest kids you'd ever want to know from a great family. It took the other kid who was injured nearly a year to get back on his feet.

I come from a culture (the military) where drinking is more the norm than even for college students. For us, not only do we get whatever civil law has to give us, but have to deal with the military side as well. Like I stated above, we are representing something bigger than ourselves. When we do something wrong, it's not our name in the news. It's "(Base) Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine kills a family of five while driving intoxicated." It's the same thing for the athletes. They work hard to get where they are at. By taking away something that they love, an automatic one year suspension for example once its adjudicated in court, you might be taking away whatever sense of entitlement they might have and teaching them a lesson that might help them in the long run.

I'm not preachy...would just rather pay the $25 cab fare.

 

[MitchL]

It's going to take a coach with balls the size of a melon to go this suspension/loss of scholly route because if not mandated by a higher power... there likely would be some ramifications from a negative recruiting standpoint or hesitant parents who know they have a high risk student/athlete looking at competing programs.

So in this specific case... Jackson or whomever makes the call, will release some firmly worded statement saying "We are disappointed blah, blah, blah and Gabe will be suspended for three matches". I remember he was firm on the Andrew Long thing a few years ago, but the Moreno family has deeper ties to ISU.

 

[clhawks00]

Schools have a code of conduct. It's best to follow that. It was put in place for a reason.

 

[ISUChip]

The OP in one forum was blasted for posting the story

I believe that's because that OP is known to show up only when something bad happens.

 

[buf87]

If people don't think KJ will take this serious, then they don't know KJ very well.

 

[Azchief32]

If people don't think KJ will take this serious, then they don't know KJ very well.

Nobody said that. Just a comment on the standard system and how it's set up. We are not even knocking on Moreno either as we have had our own stuff to deal with.

 

[buf87]

I realize that and there is a poster that has a beef with Iowa State, but I know in general it is about what should happen. Do I think Gabe will wrestle again for Iowa State, yes. What should the punishment be, I don't know, but KJ does not that these things lightly.

Also to add to debate if somebody is texting and crosses center line and kills or hurt somebody. should they be dismissed immediately. Or they reach across to passenger seat/floor to grab phone or something else and cross center line and kill/hurt somebody, what should that punishment be.

 

[WildTurk]

Omg buf87 a poster here on a Hawkeye board doesn't like ISU? No way man!

 

[MitchL]

I realize that and there is a poster that has a beef with Iowa State, but I know in general it is about what should happen. Do I think Gabe will wrestle again for Iowa State, yes. What should the punishment be, I don't know, but KJ does not that these things lightly.

Also to add to debate if somebody is texting and crosses center line and kills or hurt somebody. should they be dismissed immediately. Or they reach across to passenger seat/floor to grab phone or something else and cross center line and kill/hurt somebody, what should that punishment be.

Your last sentence deals with an unintentional instance. You can't seriously compare reaching for a dropped phone to driving while impaired after a night of drinking, can you? Wow... that's one hell of a stretch!

Posters on the Hawkeye forum that don't adore the Clones... say it isn't so. LOL!

Maybe if you want to commiserate with like thinkers, this site isn't for you.

 

[buf87]

I do believe texting and driving is illegal.

Mainly only a couple Hawk posters are idiots. Don't mind having conversations with most. And yes we have a few of them on the Clone board also.

 

[buf87]

Also we recently have somebody reaching for something or texting and crossed the center line and killed himself and permanently injured the other driver.

Also I think you have to look at details. Was the OWI a .1 or a .25. A couple drinks can get you to a .1 and still be sensible enough to drive safe. Most of us have done that.

I have seen far worse driving from people trying to text and drive.

 

[OILCHECKER]

Keep in mind that MitchL is a Cyclone hater who essentially single-handedly killed off the IowaPreps wrestling site with his constant posts about ISU, Jackson and Meeks (both the son and dad).