Info on PTL? Anyone?

[DanL53]

Is Fleming looking as good as it sounds? Thirty-seven points last night with seven assists and seven rebounds. Specifically, with Jok talking about playing the three, does anyone believe that Fleming could be a freshman starter?

(Usual disclaimer about PTL stats, and especially since I haven't evenseen a PTL game yet this year. But!)

Jok is talking playing the three. Uthoff is trying to put as much weight on as possible.

A lineup of Gesell, Fleming, Jok, Uthoff, Woody intrigues me. A huge what if, but what if Fleming is starter ready material? It gives us that second ball handler and passer at guard that we've missed since Marble graduated.

Clemmons and Uhl off the bench as just the beginning of a very deep corps of reserves?

Just something to think about. Fleming, in the rotation or starter? Again, Jok's talk of playing the three has me thinking. It makes more room for Ellingson, Moss and Hutton to compete at the two, and still leaves room for Jones, Wagner and Baer to compete for backup minutes at the 3-5 spots.

Leaving Williams out as I figure he'll spend the season learning the point, maybe even redshirt.

 

[LaoHawk]

With Ellingson getting a redshirt, he joins the Fleming, Hutton, Wagner, Williams, and Moss as players with 4 years eligibility.That's a whole team that will be deadly in year 4 if they all get sufficient playing time so someone or two may redshirt (except Ellingson). Fleming isn't afraid to shoot so that's good. Hutton already proclaim himself a DEFENSE first guy. Wagner is just to athletic to stay on the bench as well. So many pieces of the puzzle and so intriguing, can't wait for the season to come. It's a cool summer summer anyway, lol...

 

[nu2u]

I think it is definitely possible that Fleming could make the starting line-up this year, depending on how well he adjusts on the defensive end.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

I think it's great that Fleming is showing the talent and abilities many people forecasted he would bring to the table. I don't know much about the PTL and have no opinion on it, but it usually seems that Fran defers to experience come season. My guess would be the starting lineup will consist of MG, AC, PJ, JU, and AW. I hope Fleming gets in the rotation, though. Sounds like he has a major upside and should be a good one with experience.

 

[freemanbrenner]

Frans usually makes a change in the starling lineup at some point in the year

 

[Hawk_4shur]

I liked what I saw on the Hawk Central video of Fleming - nice inside/outside game. Looks pretty strong for a freshman.

Yes, I know it's PTL. But everyone doesn't score 37.

 

[texashawkeye87]

Fleming highlights from last night:

http://www.hawkcentral.com/media/cinematic/video/29654945/watch-andrew-fleming-lights-it-up-at-ptl/

 

[nu2u]

Just watched the Jok post-game PTL video. "I want to play the 3 this year". DanL mentioned this possibility but Jok sounded pretty definitive. Later on he says he can play 2-3 but sounds like some tinkering is in the works.

If Fran accommodates and it works out well, that puts Fleming squarely in the mix for the starting position at SG even though I believe MCCaffery would defer to Clemmons to start the season.

I would say his chances for starting at some point have significantly improved if that is the case. Again, he will need to show capability on defense but Fleming is a better shooter than Clemmons and will be one of the best passers on the team day1.

I see Ellingson inheriting Oglesby's role from last year - a 3pt shooter off the bench.

As I understand it, the team is able to meet for organized practice with the coaching staff a couple hours each week. I wonder if the impetus to move Jok to SF started with the coaches now that Fleming is practicing with the team.

For Moss, missing summer PTL games and team practices will have an impact on early playing time IMO.

 

[StormHawk42]

The only thing I worry about with Fleming is defense. Watching the Oak Hill games, they didn't really have much interest in playing it. But maybe his passing, shooting, and headiness will be enough to overcome it.

 

[freemanbrenner]

Think he will be ok on d. Probably not going to win defensive player of year but he will be fine

 

[And1Hawk]

What we do not know is how much Fleming will lose on the offensive end as he exerts more to play D. There can be adjustment.

 

[CanadaHawk]

The only thing I worry about with Fleming is defense. Watching the Oak Hill games, they didn't really have much interest in playing it. But maybe his passing, shooting, and headiness will be enough to overcome it.

The defensive inexperience is why I think it's unlikely that we'll see either Fleming or Jones starting this year- playing significant minutes, yes, but starting, no.

 

[Ronman]

Christian Williams didn't seem to play last night. Anyone know why?

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

Think he will be ok on d. Probably not going to win defensive player of year but he will be fine

Looking at the tape, Uthoff, Uhl and Jok all look like they have added some good weight. That gives the coaches more options... Great to see Freshmen playing well in PTL, but how much they play will depend on their play on both ends of the court. Fleming is very impressive on offense in the latest tape, but he is going to need to play much better on defense than he did at Oak Hill to become a starter.

 

[The Sleeping Dog]

Jok at the 3 will put a lot of pressure on Woodbury and Uthoff to rebound. It could work but I'd rather see a viable 4 candidate emerge from among the three new guys. Had a FB chat with one of my two friends that go to the PTL games. Says Fleming seems smart on the court, decent ball handler for his age and good shooter from around the offensive court. Key quote "it looks like there's a reason Fleming is averaging almost 30 in the PTL".

While it is just a summer league getting close to 30 a game in the PTL before ever playing a single college game, is pretty impressive.

 

[freemanbrenner]

If he gets better on defense and is ok to go along with what he has on offense, he will probably be in the mix to start .we will see. I agree with what your points on his d. Hopefully he continues to improve it.

Looking at the tape, Uthoff, Uhl and Jok all look like they have added some good weight. That gives the coaches more options... Great to see Freshmen playing well in PTL, but how much they play will depend on their play on both ends of the court. Fleming is very impressive on offense in the latest tape, but he is going to need to play much better on defense than he did at Oak Hill to become a starter.

 

[Kurt Warner]

Very nice video of Fleming for sure.

 

[EduNeerHawk]

Jok at the 3 will put a lot of pressure on Woodbury and Uthoff to rebound. It could work but I'd rather see a viable 4 candidate emerge from among the three new guys. Had a FB chat with one of my two friends that go to the PTL games. Says Fleming seems smart on the court, decent ball handler for his age and good shooter from around the offensive court. Key quote "it looks like there's a reason Fleming is averaging almost 30 in the PTL".

While it is just a summer league getting close to 30 a game in the PTL before ever playing a single college game, is pretty impressive.

Amen.....Fleming looked very impressive, not just his outside shot but driving to the hoop and a bit of an inside game too with handles. Don't forget Dom's game yesterday...was it 37 points and 23 in the second half I think. Tom K's interview with Peter really highlighted Pete's physical well being....very well too. I think he takes his game to a big time level this year. He's working hard conditioning in the off season and he's got real game to boot.

This roster has a lot of offense and Moss isn't in IC yet....shooting offense from a lot of different shooters. Many bucket makers.

 

[Bearhawk0505]

Is Fleming looking as good as it sounds? Thirty-seven points last night with seven assists and seven rebounds. Specifically, with Jok talking about playing the three, does anyone believe that Fleming could be a freshman starter?

(Usual disclaimer about PTL stats, and especially since I haven't evenseen a PTL game yet this year. But!)

Jok is talking playing the three. Uthoff is trying to put as much weight on as possible.

A lineup of Gesell, Fleming, Jok, Uthoff, Woody intrigues me. A huge what if, but what if Fleming is starter ready material? It gives us that second ball handler and passer at guard that we've missed since Marble graduated.

Clemmons and Uhl off the bench as just the beginning of a very deep corps of reserves?

Just something to think about. Fleming, in the rotation or starter? Again, Jok's talk of playing the three has me thinking. It makes more room for Ellingson, Moss and Hutton to compete at the two, and still leaves room for Jones, Wagner and Baer to compete for backup minutes at the 3-5 spots.

Leaving Williams out as I figure he'll spend the season learning the point, maybe even redshirt.

Jok is better suited for the 3. He is a pretty good rebounder. His ball handling and quickness are liabilities at the 2. I think Fran will go with a senior backcourt with Mike G and Sapp. It will be interesting to see who emerges at the 2 off the bench.

 

[CanadaHawk]

Jok is better suited for the 3. He is a pretty good rebounder. His ball handling and quickness are liabilities at the 2. I think Fran will go with a senior backcourt with Mike G and Sapp. It will be interesting to see who emerges at the 2 off the bench.

A Jok-Sapp-MG backcourt is what it's looking like for starters based on recent articles. The strength of that is experience- the seniors and Jok. The weakness is... It doesn't look like the last two teams that had trouble guarding the wing... It's quicker and shoots better- which means we'll never be able to compete in the post...

 

[2432Hawk]

Christian Williams didn't seem to play last night. Anyone know why?

He had gone home for the holiday week, so was out of town.

 

[Legend12]

Jok is better suited for the 3. He is a pretty good rebounder.

He is not even an average rebounder at this stage of his career.

 

[DanL53]

He is not even an average rebounder at this stage of his career.

If he moves to the three, I'm not ready to anoint him the next Clay Hargrave.

Regardless, two or three, there is a bunch of talent to compete for minutes. It's one of those good problems to have, Jok can elevate his game and he CAN elevate his game, or someone might move up from the lower classes. Uhl, or a freshman like Fleming who is looking pretty good.

 

[Mohawkeye]

He is not even an average rebounder at this stage of his career.

 

[Mohawkeye]

Jok averaged more rebounds per minute last year than both Clemmons and Gesell. He plays strong and has good hands. Move him to the 3 and his numbers will improve.

 

[twindman]

I checked the details for the PTL - latest is just June 25 or so. Anyway, Gesell's night of 52 pts was a remarkable night. I think he was like 16/19 from 2, 3/4 from three and 11/12 from the line. I think the stats from the line are telling. I think in high school he was a 85-90% free throw shooter. Freshman was pretty good as I recall - maybe 75 or better. Then last year he really slumped. So if he can shoot it well, that will help - especially at the end of games.
By the way that same night Ellingson didn't put up big numbers - I think 17 pts. But he was around 50% from two and that or better from three, he just didn't shoot much.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Ellingson is a lights-out shooter. Best stand-still shooter on the team. The rest the offense will have to be good enough to create enough space for him to get his feet set. After that is on automatic

 

[buttermypancakes]

He is not even an average rebounder at this stage of his career.

You're not going to let this go. I'm surprised you didn't repeat his stats from 2 years ago when he was playing in 2 minute spurts. Just under 3 RPG for a SG is pretty good, especially when he was playing with pretty good rebounders in Woody/White/Uthoff. The one game he was forced to play the 3/4 because of foul trouble was Purdue and he managed 9 boards.

 

[The Sleeping Dog]

I've had two different guys I know, one is a long term buddy, who both know basketball, tell me that Ellingson might be the best face up shooter they've seen. I hope he's right. Also said not athletic but works hard to get open. Hope he's right on that too.

A great shooter can always find a spot on the floor where zones and help can mask some defensive deficiencies. The problem for Ellingson is Fleming who might also be a really good shooter (although not as good statistically) and has a more complete game. Of course, Moss will probably see some time at the same position, assuming he gets and stays eligible. Its Hawks most crowded position.

 

[yerpHAWK]

I've had two different guys I know, one is a long term buddy, who both know basketball, tell me that Ellingson might be the best face up shooter they've seen. I hope he's right. Also said not athletic but works hard to get open. Hope he's right on that too.

A great shooter can always find a spot on the floor where zones and help can mask some defensive deficiencies. The problem for Ellingson is Fleming who might also be a really good shooter (although not as good statistically) and has a more complete game. Of course, Moss will probably see some time at the same position, assuming he gets and stays eligible. Its Hawks most crowded position.

Olgesby was the best practice shooter of all time.

 

[nu2u]

Olgesby was the best practice shooter of all time.

.

What does that have to do with Ellingson?

I believe you were trying to make the point that reputation should be tempered by actual results. If I read that post correctly, he related observations of Ellingson's shooting from watching him during competitive play (albeit the PTL) not practice. Officially, Ellingson is 4-6 on 3PT FGA in game action at Iowa (as a rue freshman while playing injured last season). I don't know, maybe Brady deserves the benefit of the doubt. There is absolutely no reason to insinuate that he will be a major disappointment.

 

[jdv77]

Back to the PTL, the July 2 stats were posted. It is interesting to me that Uhl's 35 point/16 board performance was largely unnoticed. I don't think you can rule him out as a starter this winter.

 

[yerpHAWK]

.

What does that have to do with Ellingson?

I believe you were trying to make the point that reputation should be tempered by actual results. If I read that post correctly, he related observations of Ellingson's shooting from watching him during competitive play (albeit the PTL) not practice. Officially, Ellingson is 4-6 on 3PT FGA in game action at Iowa (as a rue freshman while playing injured last season). I don't know, maybe Brady deserves the benefit of the doubt. There is absolutely no reason to insinuate that he will be a major disappointment.

I'm just saying let's take what we see with a grain of salt. Everyone's excited about Fleming, and Moss, and that's all find and dandy because it's the 1st time we're seeing them, but at the end of the day this is just summer league, and we'll see how they do in big ten play.

 

[5StarHawk]

Fran likes "pieces" that allow him flexibility. He has more flex than ever if he can play JU at the 4 now and Jok at the 3. He has more guys in the 6 4 to 6 6 range which allows flex. He has multiple experienced PGs. He now has more athleticism to play with. He has more perimeter shooters to work with, too. It will take time to figure out the best combos and roles for kids. This makes for fun speculation which is all any poster can do at this point. It also means someone will surprise on the upside which is very exciting.