ADVERTISEMENT

Nobel Prize winning Scientist ridicules Obamas take on Climate Change.

Aegon_Targaryen

HR All-American
Gold Member
Apr 19, 2014
4,113
416
83
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...ing-as-Nobel-laureate-resigns-in-protest.html

Prof Giaever was one of Barack Obama's leading scientific supporters during the 2008 president election campaign, joining 70 Nobel science laureates endorsing his candidacy.
But he has since criticised Mr Obama over his stance on global warming and was one of more 100 scientists who wrote an open letter to him, declaring: "We maintain that the case for alarm regarding climate change is grossly overstated."

He has now parted company with the APS after what he called lengthy consideration. In an email to its executive office Kate Kirby, he said he "cannot live" with its official statement on global warming.

He questioned whether the average temperature of "the whole earth for a whole year" can be accurately measured, but contended that even if the results are accurate, they indicate the climate has actually been "amazingly stable" for 150 years.
 
Several prominent members have expressed frustration that it has refused to reconsider its position – drawn up in 2007 – in the light of the "Climategate" controversy about the findings of the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia.

"Measured or reconstructed temperature records indicate that 20th - 21st century changes are neither exceptional nor persistent, and the historical and geological records show many periods warmer than today," dissenters wrote in an open letter to it its governing board.

Last year, another sceptic, Hal Lewis, a University of California professor quit the group, describing global warming as a "scam" and a "pseudoscientific fraud".

In a statement issued after Prof Lewis' departure, the APS said that "on the matter of global climate change, APS notes that virtually all reputable scientists agree... carbon dioxide is increasing in the atmosphere due to human activity".
 
Sigh, another non-climate scientist who doesn't know what he's talking about:

We often see scientists from non-climate fields who believe they have sufficient expertise to understand climate science despite having done minimal research on the subject; William Happer, Fritz Vahrenholt, and Bob Carter, for example. As he admits in his own words, Nobel Prize winning physicist Ivar Giaever fits this mould perfectly:

"I am not really terribly interested in global warming. Like most physicists I don't think much about it. But in 2008 I was in a panel here about global warming and I had to learn something about it. And I spent a day or so - half a day maybe on Google, and I was horrified by what I learned. And I'm going to try to explain to you why that was the case."

That quote comes from a presentation Giaever gave to the 62nd Meeting of Nobel Laureates in 2012, for some unknown reason on the subject of climate change. As Giaever notes at the beginning of his talk, he has become more famous for his contrarian views on global warming than for his Nobel Prize, which have made him something of a darling to the climate contrarian movement and climate denial enablers.

In this post we will examine the claims made by Giaever in his talk, and show that his contrarian climate opinions come from a position of extreme ignorance on the subject, as Giaever admits. Giaever personifies the classic stereotype of the physicist who thinks he understands all scientific fields of study:

Cartoon from xkcd which describes the behavior of Ivar Giaever to a 'T'

Accuracy of the Surface Temperature Record
In his talk, Giaever spent a lot of time criticizing Al Gore and Rajendra Pachauri (IPCC chairman) for winning the Nobel Peace Prize for - according to Giaever - 'making the global surface temperature record famous' (Figure 1).



Figure 1: Various global surface and lower troposphere temperature data sets.

Giaever proceeded to question the accuracy of the surface temperature record, ultimately asking:

"How can you measure the average temperature of the Earth? I don't think that's possible."

Unfortunately this simply displays an ignorance regarding the surface temperature record, whose accuracy has been confirmed time and time again, and which is also consistent with lower troposphere temperature measurements, as illustrated in Figure 1.

Glenn Tramblyn has answered Giaever's question in great detail in his four part series Of Averages & Anomalies, and Kevin C also had an excellent and detailed post on recent temperature measurements in The GLOBAL global warming signal. The answers to these questions are out there for those who are willing to spend more than a few hours on Google searches, and it is not constructive to give presentations on subjects without first doing such basic research. We are again left wondering why Giaever was asked to give a presentation to Nobel Laureates on a subject on which he has no expertise and has not done even the most basic research.

The Significance of the Observed Global Warming
Giaever also disputed the significance of the measured 0.8°C average global surface warming over the past 130 years, comparing it to a human fever and the temperature at which he had to maintain tissue for cell growth during his own biophysical experiments, also showing the following slide:

GiaeverStableTemp.jpg


Giaever does not seem to know how to put the observed 0.8°C global surface temperature change in proper context. It may sound small in comparison to the absolute global temperature in Kelvin, or in comparison to changes in human body temperatures, but it is a very large change in global surface temperature, especially over a period as brief as 130 years (Figure 2).



Figure 2: Eight records of local temperature variability on multi-centennial scales throughout the course of the Holocene, and an average of these (thick dark line) over the past 12,000 years, plotted with respect to the mid 20th century average temperature. The global average temperature in 2004 is also indicated. (Source)

In addition to this rapid surface warming, the global oceans have also been accumulating heat at an incredible rate - the equivalent of more than two Hiroshima "Little Boy" atomic bomb detonations per second, every second over a the past half century. Presumably a physicist of Giaever's stature would appreciate the magnitude of this global energy accumulation.

As a physicist, Giaever should also understand that seemingly small objects and quantities can have large effects, but instead he seems to rely on incorrect "common sense" perceptions which are based on ignorance of the subject at hand.

CO2 vs. Water Vapor
As another example of this behavior, Giaever proceeds to demonstrate that he also does not understand the role of the greenhouse effect in climate change.

"Water vapor is a much much stronger green[house] gas than the CO2. If you look out of the window you see the sky, you see the clouds, and you don't see the CO2."

Needless to say, the second sentence above represents a very bizarre argument. Giaever is either arguing that CO2 is a visible gas (it is not) and the fact that you can't see it means there is too little in the atmosphere to have a significant warming effect, or that only visible gases can warm the planet, or some other similarly misinformed assertion.

That clouds are visible to the human eye and CO2 isn't simply is not relevant to the greenhouse effect and global warming. It's also worth noting that like CO2, water vapor is not visible - clouds are condensed water droplets, not water vapor.

Additionally, water vapor does not drive climate change. There is a lot of it in the atmosphere, so it is the largest single contributor to the greenhouse effect. However, water vapor cannot initiate a warming event. Unlike external forcings such as CO2, which can be added to the atmosphere through various processes (like fossil fuel combustion), the level of water vapor in the atmosphere is a function of temperature. Water vapor is brought into the atmosphere via evaporation - the rate depends on the temperature of the ocean and air. If extra water is added to the atmosphere, it condenses and falls as rain or snow within a week or two. As Lacis et al. (2010) showed, as summarized by NASA (emphasis added):

"Because carbon dioxide accounts for 80% of the non-condensing GHG forcing in the current climate atmosphere, atmospheric carbon dioxide therefore qualifies as the principal control knob that governs the temperature of Earth."



http://www.skepticalscience.com/ivar-giaever-nobel-physicist-climate-pseudoscientist.html
 
In the professor's own words:

"I am not really terribly interested in global warming. Like most physicists I don't think much about it. But in 2008 I was in a panel here about global warming and I had to learn something about it. And I spent a day or so - half a day maybe on Google, and I was horrified by what I learned. And I'm going to try to explain to you why that was the case."

Really sounds like someone who knows his stuff to me. A couple of hours of research and this guy thinks he's an expert?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ozziesimmons22
I'd come up with some awesome charts too, if I was getting paid to do so. He's a scientist, a well respected one, and he's not the only one saying this, IF you read the article.

Scientist>Ciggy

We heard the same thing in the 1970's about Global Cooling. It was doom and gloom, yet......40 years later, he we are.
graph.jpg


Also, how come Cap and Trade was the answer? Cap and Trade would have completely consolidated and monopolized the industrial world,............
Why is it that according to government, that is the way to solve every problem?
 
In the professor's own words:

"I am not really terribly interested in global warming. Like most physicists I don't think much about it. But in 2008 I was in a panel here about global warming and I had to learn something about it. And I spent a day or so - half a day maybe on Google, and I was horrified by what I learned. And I'm going to try to explain to you why that was the case."

Really sounds like someone who knows his stuff to me. A couple of hours of research and this guy thinks he's an expert?
This excerpt was him talking about how he bought into the hype, similar to how you bought into the hype.
Nobel Scientist>Huey/Red

Again, he's not the only one.

He also did extensive research into it, and published a paper in 2012 about it.

Nobel Scientist>Huey

Science can't simply be convenient my friend.
 
  • Like
Reactions: icu81222
We heard the same thing in the 1970's about Global Cooling. It was doom and gloom, yet......40 years later, here we are.

No, you didn't. That's a lie. Why do you guys feel like you have to keep lying to support your position? Could it be that your position is melting away?
 
  • Like
Reactions: naturalmwa
Why would anyone think BHO was an alarmist? He's done next to nothing about the environment. Policy is the only testimony that matters. George the First was the last environmentalists in the WH.
 
One has to be pretty dense to not understand the phenomenal impact that the massive adn rapid industrialization of China and India have had on the atmosphere. the output of pollution from those two regions has not only been huge but has happenend incredibly fast.

I dont have any work or proof of this but i know i am right.
 
No, you didn't. That's a lie. Why do you guys feel like you have to keep lying to support your position? Could it be that your position is melting away?

It's hopeless to argue with the willfully ignorant. No matter how many times you debunk the myths they've been programmed to believe they still repeat them. It would be kind of sad if not for the fact that they allow their political beliefs to drive their political decisions without regard to learning the facts of the situation, and we all, and all future generations will suffer the consequences of their lack of action and willful denial of the scientific facts.
 
I wonder why OP posted the opinion of 1 Nobel Prize winner, but doesn't post the opinions of the dozens of Nobel Prize winners that believe in global warming.

Different.

Nuanced I suspect ...

800px-Climate_science_opinion2.png
 
It's hopeless to argue with the willfully ignorant. No matter how many times you debunk the myths they've been programmed to believe they still repeat them. It would be kind of sad if not for the fact that they allow their political beliefs to drive their political decisions without regard to learning the facts of the situation, and we all, and all future generations will suffer the consequences of their lack of action and willful denial of the scientific facts.

NewsweekCoverApril281975TheCoolingofAmericaandTimeMagazineCoverApril1977HowtoSurvivetheComingIceAge.jpg


Tell us Ciggy, why was it ever given the light of day then? Why did it suddenly disappear. It was a fake crisis, that climate models debunked immediately. Because it was hoopla, BS, that's why. Was Time Magazine into conspiracy theory?

The day we die from it, then I'll believe in it. Climate Change though is such a loose term, I mean we can prove climate changes, yes, but can we prove we are all truly in danger from it?

Nobel Scientist>Ciggy
 
  • Like
Reactions: icu81222
Someone show me the data on the worsening weather condiditons.

Show us when the worse floods happened, the droughts, the hurricanes cycles, etc. Show us please.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WORTHYWISH
Climate change is a negative change correct? That's why we are so afraid of 'climate change'? Show us the worse periods for these weather phenomenon. It's more than just the waters rising, it's the effect that the climate change itself has on weather conditions that is also cited as a threat.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WORTHYWISH
NewsweekCoverApril281975TheCoolingofAmericaandTimeMagazineCoverApril1977HowtoSurvivetheComingIceAge.jpg


Tell us Ciggy, why was it ever given the light of day then? Why did it suddenly disappear. It was a fake crisis, that climate models debunked immediately. Because it was hoopla, BS, that's why. Was Time Magazine into conspiracy theory?

Are you asking why a media outlet would run with a sensationalistic story that had little backing in the scientific community? Seriously?

1970s_papers.gif


Now explain why you keep bringing it up like it means anything at all.
 
Don't not get all exited. Let's wait to hear from Robert Reich and Noam Chomsky.
 
Climate change is a negative change correct? That's why we are so afraid of 'climate change'? Show us the worse periods for these weather phenomenon. It's more than just the waters rising, it's the effect that the climate change itself has on weather conditions that is also cited as a threat.
That doesn't answer the question why anyone should want to show this to you. What would be the motivation?
 
"Environmentalists" predictions at the 1st Earth Day.

April 22nd, 1970.

1. Harvard biologist George Wald estimated that “civilization will end within 15 or 30 years unless immediate action is taken against problems facing mankind.”

4. “Population will inevitably and completely outstrip whatever small increases in food supplies we make,” Paul Ehrlich confidently declared in the April 1970 Mademoiselle. “The death rate will increase until at least 100-200 million people per year will be starving to death during the next ten years.”

6. Ehrlich sketched out his most alarmist scenario for the 1970 Earth Day issue of The Progressive, assuring readers that between 1980 and 1989, some 4 billion people, including 65 million Americans, would perish in the “Great Die-Off.”

7. “It is already too late to avoid mass starvation,” declared Denis Hayes, the chief organizer for Earth Day, in the Spring 1970 issue of The Living Wilderness.

8. Peter Gunter, a North Texas State University professor, wrote in 1970, “Demographers agree almost unanimously on the following grim timetable: by 1975 widespread famines will begin in India; these will spread by 1990 to include all of India, Pakistan, China and the Near East, Africa. By the year 2000, or conceivably sooner, South and Central America will exist under famine conditions….By the year 2000, thirty years from now, the entire world, with the exception of Western Europe, North America, and Australia, will be in famine.”

9. In January 1970, Life reported, “Scientists have solid experimental and theoretical evidence to support…the following predictions: In a decade, urban dwellers will have to wear gas masks to survive air pollution…by 1985 air pollution will have reduced the amount of sunlight reaching earth by one half….”

12. Paul Ehrlich chimed in, predicting in his 1970 that “air pollution…is certainly going to take hundreds of thousands of lives in the next few years alone.” Ehrlich sketched a scenario in which 200,000 Americans would die in 1973 during “smog disasters” in New York and Los Angeles.

14. Ecologist Kenneth Watt declared, “By the year 2000, if present trends continue, we will be using up crude oil at such a rate…that there won’t be any more crude oil. You’ll drive up to the pump and say, `Fill ‘er up, buddy,’ and he’ll say, `I am very sorry, there isn’t any.’”

15. Kenneth Watt warned about a pending Ice Age in a speech. “The world has been chilling sharply for about twenty years,” he declared. “If present trends continue, the world will be about four degrees colder for the global mean temperature in 1990, but eleven degrees colder in the year 2000. This is about twice what it would take to put us into an ice age.”
 
"Environmentalists" predictions at the 1st Earth Day.

April 22nd, 1970.

1. Harvard biologist George Wald estimated that “civilization will end within 15 or 30 years unless immediate action is taken against problems facing mankind.”

4. “Population will inevitably and completely outstrip whatever small increases in food supplies we make,” Paul Ehrlich confidently declared in the April 1970 Mademoiselle. “The death rate will increase until at least 100-200 million people per year will be starving to death during the next ten years.”

6. Ehrlich sketched out his most alarmist scenario for the 1970 Earth Day issue of The Progressive, assuring readers that between 1980 and 1989, some 4 billion people, including 65 million Americans, would perish in the “Great Die-Off.”

7. “It is already too late to avoid mass starvation,” declared Denis Hayes, the chief organizer for Earth Day, in the Spring 1970 issue of The Living Wilderness.

8. Peter Gunter, a North Texas State University professor, wrote in 1970, “Demographers agree almost unanimously on the following grim timetable: by 1975 widespread famines will begin in India; these will spread by 1990 to include all of India, Pakistan, China and the Near East, Africa. By the year 2000, or conceivably sooner, South and Central America will exist under famine conditions….By the year 2000, thirty years from now, the entire world, with the exception of Western Europe, North America, and Australia, will be in famine.”

9. In January 1970, Life reported, “Scientists have solid experimental and theoretical evidence to support…the following predictions: In a decade, urban dwellers will have to wear gas masks to survive air pollution…by 1985 air pollution will have reduced the amount of sunlight reaching earth by one half….”

12. Paul Ehrlich chimed in, predicting in his 1970 that “air pollution…is certainly going to take hundreds of thousands of lives in the next few years alone.” Ehrlich sketched a scenario in which 200,000 Americans would die in 1973 during “smog disasters” in New York and Los Angeles.

14. Ecologist Kenneth Watt declared, “By the year 2000, if present trends continue, we will be using up crude oil at such a rate…that there won’t be any more crude oil. You’ll drive up to the pump and say, `Fill ‘er up, buddy,’ and he’ll say, `I am very sorry, there isn’t any.’”

15. Kenneth Watt warned about a pending Ice Age in a speech. “The world has been chilling sharply for about twenty years,” he declared. “If present trends continue, the world will be about four degrees colder for the global mean temperature in 1990, but eleven degrees colder in the year 2000. This is about twice what it would take to put us into an ice age.”

And this proves?
 
If you live in IOWA you should be more worried about what farmers are doing to our water supply! Tiling is a disaster it causes flooding and it doesn't allow for the ground water to be replenished! Not to mention the chemicals in the water! The farmers are going to effect your lives 50 x more than some climate change!
 
Not good enough. You go google it and report back you lazy slacking contrarian. Why would anyone be motivated to do that task for you?
Because he's always asking for stuff like this. He will demand a ton of research for something he will just deny anyway. If you don't bite he will claim victory. If you do he will just demand even more proof. Nice little game he has going.
 
  • Like
Reactions: naturalmwa
Because he's always asking for stuff like this. He will demand a ton of research for something he will just deny anyway. If you don't bite he will claim victory. If you do he will just demand even more proof. Nice little game he has going.
That's not me at all, unless you have proof that it is.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT