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OT: Duke, Kentucky, others, and the race to reload

DanL53

HR Legend
Sep 12, 2013
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Last night, or this morning, recently, Tyus Jones announced his intentions to enter the NBA draft. That leaves Duke with a roster of seven players.

Things are not quite so thinned out at Kentucky, where they have ten players currently part of the 2015/16 roster.

Both of these already included committed recruits by the way. That means that just between these two schools there are NINE spots available for more recruits.

Kansas: Three more openings.

So what's out there? Rivals top 150 for 2015 has SIX five star players left uncommitted.

#2 Jaylen Brown: Kentucky, Kansas, Eight total teams with medium interest that have offered.
#3 Malik Newman: Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Fourteen total teams with medium interest that have offered.
#5 Thon Maker: Duke, Kansas, Twelve total teams with medium interest that have offered.
#7 Cheick Diallo: Kansas, Four total teams with medium interest that have offered.
#11 Stephen Zimmerman: Kansas, Kentucky, Seven total teams with medium interest that have offered.
#19 Brandon Ingram: Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Six total teams with medium interest that have offered.

I didn't delve too deep into articles claiming any particular leanings. Just looking at the bigger picture. Newman, Maker and Ingram have got to be getting the ultimate blitz from Duke.

I included Kansas as they have their mitts into all six of these kids. And of course Kentucky being who they are........

And one can't count out the Ohio State's, Indiana's and whoever else is present in the battles for one kid here or there on the list.

What it all means, is too many mouths and not enough food, even among the elites.


This post was edited on 4/15 9:45 AM by DanL53
 
I find college recruiting in football and basketball depressing, all the same schools get the top recruits. I don't know why the rest of the NCAA goes along with it, we are all basically here for the greater glory of Duke, NC, KY and KS. This isn't good for college sports. There should be a penalty for teams that have players go pro early and a limit on how many scholarships can be handed out in one year. The pro teams figured out pretty fast that you needed to reward the bad teams with a high draft choice. I'm wondering what it is going to take for the college presidents to figure it out. If even Wisconsin and Michigan State can't win a national title anymore, then a team like Iowa has 0% chance.
 
I would like to see Ohio State get some top recruits, only to have some of them go to the B1G.

Also, Dan, do you hate Duke as much as Kentucky with all these one-and-dones they've been getting lately?
 
Originally posted by Mohawkeye:
I find college recruiting in football and basketball depressing, all the same schools get the top recruits. I don't know why the rest of the NCAA goes along with it, we are all basically here for the greater glory of Duke, NC, KY and KS. This isn't good for college sports. There should be a penalty for teams that have players go pro early and a limit on how many scholarships can be handed out in one year. The pro teams figured out pretty fast that you needed to reward the bad teams with a high draft choice. I'm wondering what it is going to take for the college presidents to figure it out. If even Wisconsin and Michigan State can't win a national title anymore, then a team like Iowa has 0% chance.
Sadly, I agree with you. And I think it does affect television ratings and general interest in the game. I have often thought that change would come from the college presidents as you suggested but everybody including them seems happy with the status quo.
 
Let me add that I thought Michigan State got no favors from the officials against Duke either even though Duke clearly outplayed them and deserved to win. I thought Wisconsin played Duke pretty even and the officiating arguably had an impact on the outcome- to the greatest extent in a championship game I can remember in a long time.
 
Originally posted by fivecardstud14:
I would like to see Ohio State get some top recruits, only to have some of them go to the B1G.

Also, Dan, do you hate Duke as much as Kentucky with all these one-and-dones they've been getting lately?
Over the last five or six years Kentucky has recruited twice the Rivals Five Star players as the next closest team, Duke.


th
No point, just funny picture. Too much in one load.
 
Originally posted by DanL53:

Last night, or this morning, recently, Tyus Jones announced his intentions to enter the NBA draft. That leaves Duke with a roster of seven players.

Things are not quite so thinned out at Kentucky, where they have ten players currently part of the 2015/16 roster.

Both of these already included committed recruits by the way. That means that just between these two schools there are NINE spots available for more recruits.

Kansas: Three more openings.

So what's out there? Rivals top 150 for 2015 has SIX five star players left uncommitted.

#2 Jaylen Brown: Kentucky, Kansas, Eight total teams with medium interest that have offered.
#3 Malik Newman: Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Fourteen total teams with medium interest that have offered.
#5 Thon Maker: Duke, Kansas, Twelve total teams with medium interest that have offered.
#7 Cheick Diallo: Kansas, Four total teams with medium interest that have offered.
#11 Stephen Zimmerman: Kansas, Kentucky, Seven total teams with medium interest that have offered.
#19 Brandon Ingram: Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Six total teams with medium interest that have offered.

I didn't delve too deep into articles claiming any particular leanings. Just looking at the bigger picture. Newman, Maker and Ingram have got to be getting the ultimate blitz from Duke.

I included Kansas as they have their mitts into all six of these kids. And of course Kentucky being who they are........

And one can't count out the Ohio State's, Indiana's and whoever else is present in the battles for one kid here or there on the list.

What it all means, is too many mouths and not enough food, even among the elites.


This post was edited on 4/15 9:45 AM by DanL53
Does the three KU openings take into consideration Carlton Bragg's commitment? I guess it must, or he'd have been on your list.

Last I checked, Diallo said he had five finalists: Kentucky, Kansas, Iowa State, Pitt and St. John's. Most Cyclone fans seem to think that whatever slim chance ISU had disappeared when the coach who was recruiting him went to St. John's, but I wasn't aware he had actually removed the school from his list.

You're right, though. It's a freaking jungle out there.
 
Originally posted by Lone Clone:


Originally posted by DanL53:

Last night, or this morning, recently, Tyus Jones announced his intentions to enter the NBA draft. That leaves Duke with a roster of seven players.

Things are not quite so thinned out at Kentucky, where they have ten players currently part of the 2015/16 roster.

Both of these already included committed recruits by the way. That means that just between these two schools there are NINE spots available for more recruits.

Kansas: Three more openings.

So what's out there? Rivals top 150 for 2015 has SIX five star players left uncommitted.

#2 Jaylen Brown: Kentucky, Kansas, Eight total teams with medium interest that have offered.
#3 Malik Newman: Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Fourteen total teams with medium interest that have offered.
#5 Thon Maker: Duke, Kansas, Twelve total teams with medium interest that have offered.
#7 Cheick Diallo: Kansas, Four total teams with medium interest that have offered.
#11 Stephen Zimmerman: Kansas, Kentucky, Seven total teams with medium interest that have offered.
#19 Brandon Ingram: Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Six total teams with medium interest that have offered.

I didn't delve too deep into articles claiming any particular leanings. Just looking at the bigger picture. Newman, Maker and Ingram have got to be getting the ultimate blitz from Duke.

I included Kansas as they have their mitts into all six of these kids. And of course Kentucky being who they are........

And one can't count out the Ohio State's, Indiana's and whoever else is present in the battles for one kid here or there on the list.

What it all means, is too many mouths and not enough food, even among the elites.



This post was edited on 4/15 9:45 AM by DanL53
Does the three KU openings take into consideration Carlton Bragg's commitment? I guess it must, or he'd have been on your list.

Last I checked, Diallo said he had five finalists: Kentucky, Kansas, Iowa State, Pitt and St. John's. Most Cyclone fans seem to think that whatever slim chance ISU had disappeared when the coach who was recruiting him went to St. John's, but I wasn't aware he had actually removed the school from his list.

You're right, though. It's a freaking jungle out there.
For offers, I went off one site entirely. Rivals. Believe it or not, Kentucky doesn't show an offer for Diallo. I'm sure there are inaccuracies but then that was the point behind not delving "too deep", a better way to put it would have been that going off the internet I know there has to be discrepancies between sites. I'm wondering about Thon Maker and Kentucky as well...but Rivals claims no offer.

I did find one interesting tidbit regarding Duke, a 2016 point guard, Five Star, that may seek to come out in 2015 and that could be where they get their point guard. Derryck Thornton Jr.

Carlton Bragg committed to Kansas in January and I did take it into account and supposedly they still have three openings. Now, counting openings comes off of "Verbal Commits" and it is another site that can be wrong at times.

Personally I think it is hilarious that so many five stars waited until the Spring to see who goes pro before they commit. It has to make it harder on the elites and in this case maybe some lower five stars or high four stars were allowed to "escape" in favor of better players thought to be in the fold?

It is a jungle. A dirty rotten jungle. Amazing to follow...and the more one watches it the more one realizes what a great job Hoiberg, Jacobson and McCaffery are doing surviving in it. All with slightly different styles or there would likely not be room for all three in our little state.
 
Unless you are a fan of one of these schools, this has to make you sick. It makes me want to ship a box of vomit to the NCAA labeled "Insider Recruiting Tidbits"
 
Originally posted by HoustonREDHawk:

Unless you are a fan of one of these schools, this has to make you sick. It makes me want to ship a box of vomit to the NCAA labeled "Insider Recruiting Tidbits"


It's 1960's rock band bull$%%. Only MAYBE minus the booze, drugs and women.

I mean, the colleges are getting filthy rich and so are the handlers, the shoe companies, the coaches and whoever else can get their hands in the pie.

And you can't keep a kid in the same spot unless you keep him thinking he's going to be a star. All they know is playing time means they have a chance.

http://freedom.mysdhc.org/guidance/information/From%20High%20School%20to%20Pro%20Statistics.pdf
 
I guess I don't understand the hand-wringing. I think that this year's recruiting, when wrapped up, will not have a monster class like 2013 Kentucky. Instead, I think the top talent is about as widely dispersed as we have seen in a while.

Kentucky will not fill its open scholarships this spring with high school players. The drawback of recruiting 5 star players is that they can be divas. And while a diva may sacrifice some minutes and individual glory for an NCAA championship during the one-year NBA waiting period, they don't want to "sacrifice" and lose in the final four. They don't want to platoon. They want stats. They want to be stars.

Right or wrong, Kentucky's failure to win the title with what was perceived to be an overwhelming amount of talent is going to cause (in my opinion) problems for them in filling their roster this spring. It is interesting to me that Calipari just offered a graduate transfer at center (Mike Thorne, Jr.). You don't do that if you think Thon Maker, Chieck Diallo, or Stephen Zimmerman is coming to Lexington.

Don't get me wrong--I would have been ecstatic if someone like Caleb Swanigan was coming to Iowa. And there is plenty that is wrong with the AAU circuit and current recruiting games. It just appears to me that recruiting this year is more sane, and less Kentucky-centric, than it has been since 2012.
 
Do it like baseball, you either go pro after HS or you wait till your Junior year is over. The Kentucky's and such wouldn't have 5 or more scholarships available every year and the 5 stars couldn't all fit onto all the blue bloods rosters.
 
Originally posted by Mohawkeye:
I find college recruiting in football and basketball depressing, all the same schools get the top recruits. I don't know why the rest of the NCAA goes along with it, we are all basically here for the greater glory of Duke, NC, KY and KS. This isn't good for college sports. There should be a penalty for teams that have players go pro early and a limit on how many scholarships can be handed out in one year. The pro teams figured out pretty fast that you needed to reward the bad teams with a high draft choice. I'm wondering what it is going to take for the college presidents to figure it out. If even Wisconsin and Michigan State can't win a national title anymore, then a team like Iowa has 0% chance.
Isn't that was the APR is? I thought that was supposed to be the NCAA's new guideline to see if institutions were really graduating all their players and making an effort to put the Student back into "student athletes."

Sadly I have only heard of one school being punished and wasn't that UCONN?? Didn't they have to miss the NCAA tournament a couple years ago because their APR dropped so low? I would think Kentucky is getting close with having the past 2 years something like 11 kids leave early. Out of those kids none of them will graduate and therefore that schools APR should take a HUGE hit.

Enforcing this would also probably help the Transfer/Free Agent market in the NCAA.
 
Originally posted by jdv77:
I guess I don't understand the hand-wringing. I think that this year's recruiting, when wrapped up, will not have a monster class like 2013 Kentucky. Instead, I think the top talent is about as widely dispersed as we have seen in a while.

Kentucky will not fill its open scholarships this spring with high school players. The drawback of recruiting 5 star players is that they can be divas. And while a diva may sacrifice some minutes and individual glory for an NCAA championship during the one-year NBA waiting period, they don't want to "sacrifice" and lose in the final four. They don't want to platoon. They want stats. They want to be stars.

Right or wrong, Kentucky's failure to win the title with what was perceived to be an overwhelming amount of talent is going to cause (in my opinion) problems for them in filling their roster this spring. It is interesting to me that Calipari just offered a graduate transfer at center (Mike Thorne, Jr.). You don't do that if you think Thon Maker, Chieck Diallo, or Stephen Zimmerman is coming to Lexington.

Don't get me wrong--I would have been ecstatic if someone like Caleb Swanigan was coming to Iowa. And there is plenty that is wrong with the AAU circuit and current recruiting games. It just appears to me that recruiting this year is more sane, and less Kentucky-centric, than it has been since 2012.
I disagree...I think where those 1 and dones fall in the draft effects Kentucky's recruiting than losing in the final 4.
 
Boy, Cal darn well better get these kids signed to Kentucky. His seat has to be mighty warm after failing to win the ncaa championship, and not even getting into the final game. What an underachiever!
 
Originally posted by DavenportHawk8:

Originally posted by Mohawkeye:
I find college recruiting in football and basketball depressing, all the same schools get the top recruits. I don't know why the rest of the NCAA goes along with it, we are all basically here for the greater glory of Duke, NC, KY and KS. This isn't good for college sports. There should be a penalty for teams that have players go pro early and a limit on how many scholarships can be handed out in one year. The pro teams figured out pretty fast that you needed to reward the bad teams with a high draft choice. I'm wondering what it is going to take for the college presidents to figure it out. If even Wisconsin and Michigan State can't win a national title anymore, then a team like Iowa has 0% chance.
Isn't that was the APR is? I thought that was supposed to be the NCAA's new guideline to see if institutions were really graduating all their players and making an effort to put the Student back into "student athletes."

Sadly I have only heard of one school being punished and wasn't that UCONN?? Didn't they have to miss the NCAA tournament a couple years ago because their APR dropped so low? I would think Kentucky is getting close with having the past 2 years something like 11 kids leave early. Out of those kids none of them will graduate and therefore that schools APR should take a HUGE hit.

Enforcing this would also probably help the Transfer/Free Agent market in the NCAA.
I could be wrong, but I think if a player leaves for some reason -- transfer to another school, go professional, return home to marry the high school sweetheart -- if doesn't count against the school's APR if the athlete is in good academic standing when it happens.
 
If the NCAA is interested in promoting academic integrity (which they seem eager to do in formal communications), then the "one and done" loophole needs to be re-evaluated and, preferably, reformed.

As it now stands (as I understand it), highly talented basketball recruits can presently enroll and take the bare minimum of college credits for the 1st semester (typically in the least challenging classes), do the absolute bare minimum coursework to avoid a failing grade, then repeat the routine the 2nd semester without essentially doing any coursework whatsoever.

If I have that right or close to accurate, calling these players student-athletes is a sham.
 
Originally posted by nu2u:

If the NCAA is interested in promoting academic integrity (which they seem eager to do in formal communications), then the "one and done" loophole needs to be re-evaluated and, preferably, reformed.

As it now stands (as I understand it), highly talented basketball recruits can presently enroll and take the bare minimum of college credits for the 1st semester (typically in the least challenging classes), do the absolute bare minimum coursework to avoid a failing grade, then repeat the routine the 2nd semester without essentially doing any coursework whatsoever.

If I have that right or close to accurate, calling these players student-athletes is a sham.
Or in the case of a a school such as North Carolina, they don't have to complete any coursework or even attend the classes and they can still receive an A. We know this has been going on for years. Doubt it is any different at Kentucky or any of the other so called elites.
 
Originally posted by Lone Clone:

Originally posted by DavenportHawk8:

Originally posted by Mohawkeye:
I find college recruiting in football and basketball depressing, all the same schools get the top recruits. I don't know why the rest of the NCAA goes along with it, we are all basically here for the greater glory of Duke, NC, KY and KS. This isn't good for college sports. There should be a penalty for teams that have players go pro early and a limit on how many scholarships can be handed out in one year. The pro teams figured out pretty fast that you needed to reward the bad teams with a high draft choice. I'm wondering what it is going to take for the college presidents to figure it out. If even Wisconsin and Michigan State can't win a national title anymore, then a team like Iowa has 0% chance.
Isn't that was the APR is? I thought that was supposed to be the NCAA's new guideline to see if institutions were really graduating all their players and making an effort to put the Student back into "student athletes."

Sadly I have only heard of one school being punished and wasn't that UCONN?? Didn't they have to miss the NCAA tournament a couple years ago because their APR dropped so low? I would think Kentucky is getting close with having the past 2 years something like 11 kids leave early. Out of those kids none of them will graduate and therefore that schools APR should take a HUGE hit.

Enforcing this would also probably help the Transfer/Free Agent market in the NCAA.
I could be wrong, but I think if a player leaves for some reason -- transfer to another school, go professional, return home to marry the high school sweetheart -- if doesn't count against the school's APR if the athlete is in good academic standing when it happens.
Yeah I assume that is how it works, but I think the NCAA could make some changes to help stop the Free Agency/Transfer issue as well the "one and done" or "renting" players issue.

I think if a player enrolls in an institution and then leaves, that's a mark on that program. If they get too many marks, they lose schollys or lose the right to play in the NCAA. I mean there was over 300 transfers this year? Holy crap that's a lot and I think the schools/programs should be held accountable. You and I know that most of these 1 and done players are taking very generic classes. I am sure most of these classes most 4-5th grade age students could get through. So I think its kind of a joke of the NCAA.

They either have to say, "Stay 2-3 years before allowing them into the NBA" or "You can go right away out of high school"

Bo Ryan was not happy with the "renting" players scenario and you know BO will get his way. Because what BO wants, Bo Gets and I am sure he opened some eyes and ears from the NCAA.
 
Originally posted by DavenportHawk8:


Originally posted by Lone Clone:


Originally posted by DavenportHawk8:


Originally posted by Mohawkeye:
I find college recruiting in football and basketball depressing, all the same schools get the top recruits. I don't know why the rest of the NCAA goes along with it, we are all basically here for the greater glory of Duke, NC, KY and KS. This isn't good for college sports. There should be a penalty for teams that have players go pro early and a limit on how many scholarships can be handed out in one year. The pro teams figured out pretty fast that you needed to reward the bad teams with a high draft choice. I'm wondering what it is going to take for the college presidents to figure it out. If even Wisconsin and Michigan State can't win a national title anymore, then a team like Iowa has 0% chance.
Isn't that was the APR is? I thought that was supposed to be the NCAA's new guideline to see if institutions were really graduating all their players and making an effort to put the Student back into "student athletes."

Sadly I have only heard of one school being punished and wasn't that UCONN?? Didn't they have to miss the NCAA tournament a couple years ago because their APR dropped so low? I would think Kentucky is getting close with having the past 2 years something like 11 kids leave early. Out of those kids none of them will graduate and therefore that schools APR should take a HUGE hit.

Enforcing this would also probably help the Transfer/Free Agent market in the NCAA.
I could be wrong, but I think if a player leaves for some reason -- transfer to another school, go professional, return home to marry the high school sweetheart -- if doesn't count against the school's APR if the athlete is in good academic standing when it happens.
Yeah I assume that is how it works, but I think the NCAA could make some changes to help stop the Free Agency/Transfer issue as well the "one and done" or "renting" players issue.

I think if a player enrolls in an institution and then leaves, that's a mark on that program. If they get too many marks, they lose schollys or lose the right to play in the NCAA. I mean there was over 300 transfers this year? Holy crap that's a lot and I think the schools/programs should be held accountable. You and I know that most of these 1 and done players are taking very generic classes. I am sure most of these classes most 4-5th grade age students could get through. So I think its kind of a joke of the NCAA.

They either have to say, "Stay 2-3 years before allowing them into the NBA" or "You can go right away out of high school"

Bo Ryan was not happy with the "renting" players scenario and you know BO will get his way. Because what BO wants, Bo Gets and I am sure he opened some eyes and ears from the NCAA.
I actually think Bo did much good making the public comments he did after the championship game. He seemed the right guy to do it at the right time given his age and what he has accomplished and seems smart enough to know that. Whether anything comes of it we'll see but at least he got people's attention.
 
All this talk about the NCAA doing something when there is nothing they can do. The "one and done" rule is part of the NBA collective bargaining contract. It does not say a player must to go to college, but it does say they need to be at least 19 and one year removed from high school graduation to sign an NBA contract. That will not change until the next CBA. Plus, there is no guarantee the one and done rule will be altered. The rules are in place because of the NBA. If the NCAA does something that keeps schools from taking players who need to play a year bedore they go to the NBA, then we will see lawsuits. The only thing that could change this is if the NBA once again takes players straight from high school or of the NBA development league is expanded to take the young players.
 
Originally posted by SCHawkFan:
All this talk about the NCAA doing something when there is nothing they can do. The "one and done" rule is part of the NBA collective bargaining contract. It does not say a player must to go to college, but it does say they need to be at least 19 and one year removed from high school graduation to sign an NBA contract. That will not change until the next CBA. Plus, there is no guarantee the one and done rule will be altered. The rules are in place because of the NBA. If the NCAA does something that keeps schools from taking players who need to play a year bedore they go to the NBA, then we will see lawsuits. The only thing that could change this is if the NBA once again takes players straight from high school or of the NBA development league is expanded to take the young players.
The NBA talks about raising the minimum age for entry into the league but never does anything about it no doubt due to the collective bargaining agreement that you cited. It seems to me that both the NBA and the NCAA have an interest in this and could work collectively to try and change things. The NBA execs seem to waste plenty of money on young players who haven't fully developed yet.
This post was edited on 4/17 9:03 AM by hawkeyemark
 
Originally posted by Mohawkeye:
I find college recruiting in football and basketball depressing, all the same schools get the top recruits. I don't know why the rest of the NCAA goes along with it, we are all basically here for the greater glory of Duke, NC, KY and KS. This isn't good for college sports. There should be a penalty for teams that have players go pro early and a limit on how many scholarships can be handed out in one year. The pro teams figured out pretty fast that you needed to reward the bad teams with a high draft choice. I'm wondering what it is going to take for the college presidents to figure it out. If even Wisconsin and Michigan State can't win a national title anymore, then a team like Iowa has 0% chance.
Penalize a school for an individual exercising their right to earn a living? As far as NBA losers getting top picks, yeah, it only took the Clippers 30 years of lottery picks to become good.
 
Originally posted by hawkeyemark:
Originally posted by SCHawkFan:
All this talk about the NCAA doing something when there is nothing they can do. The "one and done" rule is part of the NBA collective bargaining contract. It does not say a player must to go to college, but it does say they need to be at least 19 and one year removed from high school graduation to sign an NBA contract. That will not change until the next CBA. Plus, there is no guarantee the one and done rule will be altered. The rules are in place because of the NBA. If the NCAA does something that keeps schools from taking players who need to play a year bedore they go to the NBA, then we will see lawsuits. The only thing that could change this is if the NBA once again takes players straight from high school or of the NBA development league is expanded to take the young players.
The NBA talks about raising the minimum age for entry into the league but never does anything about it no doubt due to the collective bargaining agreement that you cited. It seems to me that both the NBA and the NCAA have an interest in this and could work collectively to try and change things. The NBA execs seem to waste plenty of money on young players who haven't fully developed yet.
This post was edited on 4/17 9:03 AM by hawkeyemark

They did raise the age. That is why we have one and done players.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by SCHawkFan:

Originally posted by hawkeyemark:

Originally posted by SCHawkFan:
All this talk about the NCAA doing something when there is nothing they can do. The "one and done" rule is part of the NBA collective bargaining contract. It does not say a player must to go to college, but it does say they need to be at least 19 and one year removed from high school graduation to sign an NBA contract. That will not change until the next CBA. Plus, there is no guarantee the one and done rule will be altered. The rules are in place because of the NBA. If the NCAA does something that keeps schools from taking players who need to play a year bedore they go to the NBA, then we will see lawsuits. The only thing that could change this is if the NBA once again takes players straight from high school or of the NBA development league is expanded to take the young players.
The NBA talks about raising the minimum age for entry into the league but never does anything about it no doubt due to the collective bargaining agreement that you cited. It seems to me that both the NBA and the NCAA have an interest in this and could work collectively to try and change things. The NBA execs seem to waste plenty of money on young players who haven't fully developed yet.

This post was edited on 4/17 9:03 AM by hawkeyemark

They did raise the age. That is why we have one and done players.

Posted from Rivals Mobile
You could raise it to 20 or 21 and eliminate one and done. 19 allows the messed up scenario we have now- players having to play a year and then best ones turn pro after just one season of forced college ball.
 
Some three minute egg thinking.

I didn't put a lot of work into this, and the numbers may be off slightly. By my count forty college basketball players went the one and done route in the last four years. (So far) This year there are thirteen and the three previous seasons there were nine each year.

That's not many. Not when thirteen scholarships on three hundred and fifty-one Division One teams means around 4500 college basketball players at any one time.

Since I think about the only thing the NCAA could do is make freshmen ineligible, and to make that reasonable it probably means all sports, that is quite a few people screwed up with rules just to force about ten guys a year to attend college for one extra year!

In other words there isn't much the NCAA can do about it.

But. My problem really comes in when of those forty players, a full 25% of them, or ten guys, attended Kentucky! And then if you take the next two worst culprits, Kansas and Duke add another five each. Now three teams are responsible for recruiting fully HALF the one and doners in college basketball in the last four years!

The 20 other guys are divided up between fifteen teams.

So it bugs me. And why? It isn't like one and doners are ever going to repopulate the earth! The NBA can't even afford to draft that many players! So what gets me about this? The NBA started the rule that a player must be nineteen and one year removed from high school in the 2006 draft. Since then?

Kentucky: Four Final fours
Duke: Two Final Fours
Kansas: Two Final Fours

Total Championships? Four of ten.

Total final four teams? 36. This is odd math but I'm lazy, how many of those 36 were teams that had at least one player go pro after a single year (In the last four years)? 21. Again, there is all kinds of rubber math in this last little paragraph...but take it what it is worth, obviously teams that can recruit one and doners also enjoy Final Fours.

AND THAT'S WHAT BUGS ME. Perhaps what we need is a Division A-1. Kentucky, Duke, Kansas and maybe five more teams. Let them play each other, no one else, and Division One can get back to some serious, competitive college basketball.
 
It isn't a level playing field, but it isn't the NCAA that is calling the shots. Allowing kids to enter the draft out of HS would probably make it easier to extend the college requirement to two years, but there is still going to be a similar distribution of 2 and done players at UK, Duke, Kansas, NC, etc. If the NCAA would actually enforce education requirements, it wouldn't be as much of a sham, but is that ever going to happen?
 
Originally posted by HoustonREDHawk:

It isn't a level playing field, but it isn't the NCAA that is calling the shots. Allowing kids to enter the draft out of HS would probably make it easier to extend the college requirement to two years, but there is still going to be a similar distribution of 2 and done players at UK, Duke, Kansas, NC, etc. If the NCAA would actually enforce education requirements, it wouldn't be as much of a sham, but is that ever going to happen?
Even the two and done scenario would at least prepare the players who leave early better to play professionally which you would think the NBA would have an interest in. The ideal seems to make them play three years and give the option of entering the NBA out of high school which would make college basketball similar to the other major collegiate sports. Basketball has become so out of whack I don't know if we can get past where things stand now.
 
Hope the NBA and players union just open it up for HS players to pros. Top 5-10 kids will come out ...those are the kids who are diff-makers at college level. UK and Duke still get the best but they will not dominate upperclassmen like Okafor and Towns did. Parity reigns.
 
I'm as upset as anyone with the NCAA's lack of enforcement of rules for (both football and basketball); but I'm more upset with the Uinversities' themselves. The Presidents need to make sure academics are enforced regardless of athletics. Kentucky and Duke have Univ President's that are on board with the 1 and done guys that never crack a book to be eligible. And, there are more Presidents' ready to line up to have the same deal if they could just get in on it. What a sham! College athletics has no integrity anymore. The money has become bigger than the college game. Just let the pros create a major minor league for football and basketball and let the colleges go back to teaching and coaching student athletes. Now, the big guys in both football and basketball almost always stay the same every year.
 
Originally posted by DavenportHawk8:

Originally posted by Lone Clone:

Originally posted by DavenportHawk8:

Originally posted by Mohawkeye:
I find college recruiting in football and basketball depressing, all the same schools get the top recruits. I don't know why the rest of the NCAA goes along with it, we are all basically here for the greater glory of Duke, NC, KY and KS. This isn't good for college sports. There should be a penalty for teams that have players go pro early and a limit on how many scholarships can be handed out in one year. The pro teams figured out pretty fast that you needed to reward the bad teams with a high draft choice. I'm wondering what it is going to take for the college presidents to figure it out. If even Wisconsin and Michigan State can't win a national title anymore, then a team like Iowa has 0% chance.
Isn't that was the APR is? I thought that was supposed to be the NCAA's new guideline to see if institutions were really graduating all their players and making an effort to put the Student back into "student athletes."

Sadly I have only heard of one school being punished and wasn't that UCONN?? Didn't they have to miss the NCAA tournament a couple years ago because their APR dropped so low? I would think Kentucky is getting close with having the past 2 years something like 11 kids leave early. Out of those kids none of them will graduate and therefore that schools APR should take a HUGE hit.

Enforcing this would also probably help the Transfer/Free Agent market in the NCAA.
I could be wrong, but I think if a player leaves for some reason -- transfer to another school, go professional, return home to marry the high school sweetheart -- if doesn't count against the school's APR if the athlete is in good academic standing when it happens.
Yeah I assume that is how it works, but I think the NCAA could make some changes to help stop the Free Agency/Transfer issue as well the "one and done" or "renting" players issue.

I think if a player enrolls in an institution and then leaves, that's a mark on that program. If they get too many marks, they lose schollys or lose the right to play in the NCAA. I mean
there was over 300 transfers this year? Holy crap that's a lot and I think the schools/programs should be held accountable. You and I know that most of these 1 and done players are taking very generic classes. I am sure most of these classes most 4-5th grade age students could get through. So I think its kind of a joke of the NCAA.

They either have to say, "Stay 2-3 years before allowing them into the NBA" or "You can go right away out of high school"

Bo Ryan was not happy with the "renting" players scenario and you know BO will get his way. Because what BO wants, Bo Gets and I am sure he opened some eyes and ears from the NCAA.
Why should a school be punished if a player transfers? These athletes aren't indentured servants. You're ok with Iowa being punished because of Ingram,Meyer,Dickerson,etc... decide to move on? Wisconsin paid for Uthoff's scholarship for a year before he transferred to Iowa. All they got out of it was a practice player for a year and you think the Badgers should be punished? You think Iowa should be held accountable because Hubbard only stuck around for part of a summer? Good grief.
 
Originally posted by HoustonREDHawk:

It isn't a level playing field, but it isn't the NCAA that is calling the shots. Allowing kids to enter the draft out of HS would probably make it easier to extend the college requirement to two years, but there is still going to be a similar distribution of 2 and done players at UK, Duke, Kansas, NC, etc. If the NCAA would actually enforce education requirements, it wouldn't be as much of a sham, but is that ever going to happen?
What educational requirements aren't the NCAA enforcing?
 
NCAA & NBA could save themselves a heap of trouble by letting everyone in the draft. If a player gets drafted and the team does not want them yet, let them stay in school & the team keeps their rights for 3-5 years. Helps the NCAA, helps NBA, might hurt a few kids financially, but so does the misrepresentation of advice agents are giving all these kids that don't go first round.
 
The NBA is doing what is best for them. They were getting burnt with some high school kids that were way overhyped and misevaluated. They are using the NCAA to save them from themselves and minimize possible misevaluations. They do not care how it effects college ball.
 
I think it says a lot when Duke's 4 freshman scored 60 of Duke's 68 points in the championship game (Okafer 10; Winslow 11; Jones 23; Allen 16) and 3 of the 4 have declared for the NBA draft; THREE one and done's right there! How ironic that Coach K out "one and done'd" Cal!

concerning limit of scholarships in one year, Iowa is bringing in 5 freshman; so not sure how that will fly

how do you keep kids from going where they want to go? kids want to play for Coach K; I get that. Cal has shown that if you play for him, you play in the NBA. It's hard to say "no" to Kansas, too. However, regarding N Carolina, why would anyone want to go there now when this academic fraud cloud is hanging over their program? I guess it's hard to say "no" to Michael Jordan.


Originally posted by hawkeyemark:
Originally posted by Mohawkeye:
I find college recruiting in football and basketball depressing, all the same schools get the top recruits. I don't know why the rest of the NCAA goes along with it, we are all basically here for the greater glory of Duke, NC, KY and KS. This isn't good for college sports. There should be a penalty for teams that have players go pro early and a limit on how many scholarships can be handed out in one year. The pro teams figured out pretty fast that you needed to reward the bad teams with a high draft choice. I'm wondering what it is going to take for the college presidents to figure it out. If even Wisconsin and Michigan State can't win a national title anymore, then a team like Iowa has 0% chance.
Sadly, I agree with you. And I think it does affect television ratings and general interest in the game. I have often thought that change would come from the college presidents as you suggested but everybody including them seems happy with the status quo.
 
agreed.

i am surprised the veterans would not want a higher age limit because it gives them more job security when kids have to wait to declare for the NBA until they reach a certain age
Originally posted by FarmerClone:
The NBA is doing what is best for them. They were getting burnt with some high school kids that were way overhyped and misevaluated. They are using the NCAA to save them from themselves and minimize possible misevaluations. They do not care how it effects college ball.
 
agreed; I think it is a sham.

and don't you think the courses are a lot of "Intro" type courses? Heck at UNC, you did not have to attend some courses and the only requirement was a term paper!

In many cases, this whole "student" athlete claim is a joke; the kid is there to play basketball, not attend class.
Originally posted by nu2u:

If the NCAA is interested in promoting academic integrity (which they seem eager to do in formal communications), then the "one and done" loophole needs to be re-evaluated and, preferably, reformed.

As it now stands (as I understand it), highly talented basketball recruits can presently enroll and take the bare minimum of college credits for the 1st semester (typically in the least challenging classes), do the absolute bare minimum coursework to avoid a failing grade, then repeat the routine the 2nd semester without essentially doing any coursework whatsoever.

If I have that right or close to accurate, calling these players student-athletes is a sham.
 
NC happened to get caught, but I am sure there is a lot of funny stuff done with academics at most of the blue blood schools, especially for the one and dones, who only need to "pass" their first semester. I guess money trumps integrity for most university presidents and the NCAA.
 
Originally posted by FarmerClone:
The NBA is doing what is best for them. They were getting burnt with some high school kids that were way overhyped and misevaluated. They are using the NCAA to save them from themselves and minimize possible misevaluations. They do not care how it effects college ball.
You have it right except the NBA ended up creating a flawed solution. You have agents convincing some of these kids in their first year that they will end up as draft picks who either don't get drafted or don't pan out because they didn't play enough college ball. While the NBA I think ultimately has to fix this it seems like a situation where they and the NCAA have a mutual interest in change.
 
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