POLL: America's Foreign Policy - Winning vs Losing

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Which of these foreign policy adventures would you say represent wins for America as opposed to losses?

I know this will be hard for Lone Clone because he needs to have every step and term spelled out for him, but for the rest of you, decide for yourself what count as a win or a loss.

I'll give you a some examples. To me, Obama handled Syria wrong. Pretty much everything about it. Not only was it handled wrong but the outcomes (so far) have sucked. Unless you believe that the declining US empire is simply trying to create massive chaos in that region, this is a loss.

Ukraine is tricky. I opposed (and still oppose) the policy, but since it looks like we will end up having moved three quarters of Ukraine into the Western sphere of influence and have isolated and hurt Russia economically, it has to count as a pretty big win.

Or take Libya. At the time I was lukewarm and frankly puzzled by this one. It certainly didn't seem necessary, and hardly seemed worth doing. We were obviously doing it mainly at the behest of our European allies (who sought to gain control of the oil). And Obama conducted it with minimal risk to Americans. So it sounds like a win. But Europe dropped the ball when we finished our part. Now the extremists are running wild and Europe faces a serious and tragic refugee problem. Not our fault, except that our part of the operation paved the way. So I'd call it a loss, overall. But if you only look at our part, it's probably a win.

You won't necessarily agree with my takes, but maybe that will help you shape your own views.

 

[pablow]

Obama tried to screw up Egypt but failed. So I'm reluctantly giving his administration its only win there.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Obama tried to screw up Egypt but failed. So I'm reluctantly giving his administration its only win there.

How did Obama try to screw up Egypt and how did he fail? Did he not succeed in getting the ruling military dictatorship back in power?

I agree it's a win. But it sounds like for the opposite reason than what you are thinking. I disapprove of our policy there. We should have invested in democracy. But the outcome fits US foreign policy aims, so it's a win.

 

[pablow]

How did Obama try to screw up Egypt and how did he fail? Did he not succeed in getting the ruling military dictatorship back in power?

I agree it's a win. But it sounds like for the opposite reason than what you are thinking. I disapprove of our policy there. We should have invested in democracy. But the outcome fits US foreign policy aims, so it's a win.

Wasn't Obama best-butt-buddies with the Muslim Brotherhood and Morsi? That was my impression.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Wasn't Obama best-butt-buddies with the Muslim Brotherhood and Morsi? That was my impression.

That's really serious rightwing conspiracy nutcase stuff.

To his credit, Obama was willing to let Mubarak go down. Not that he could have stopped it unless he backed a brutal military response.

It was assumed that the Arab Spring could be harnessed into a democratic election that would put one of the prominent pro-Western figures into power and, in any case, the military and judiciary remained firmly in control of our guys.

The pro-Western, and pro-democracy, and secular, and religiously-moderate groups failed to coalesce around a unified slate. Or even around just a few slates.

So Morsi was elected fair and square, along with a lot of Muslim Brotherhood candidates.

The military/judicial cabal tried to quash the election by refusing to seat the new legislature. They failed.

Obama tried to work with Morsi (while working behind the scenes for new elections). Morsi played ball. Agreeing, for example, not to throw open Egypt's border with Gaza, and to continue to honor existing agreements with Israel.

And then things started falling apart. US engineered rallies against Morsi, after the military cabal accused him of trying to scuttle democracy - not that the military guys cared a damn for democracy. And then came Morsi's ouster on mainly trumped up charges.

Then Morsi is jailed. Outside of the US press, this is recognized as entirely political. Where he gets involved in a failed jail break. For which he will now be executed.

The Muslim Brotherhood goes from being willing to participate in the democratic process to being declared a terrorist organization and being driven underground in Egypt with many members arrested and executed or sentenced to death.

 

[desihawk]

Iraq is a loss for obvious reasons-- we've wasted lives and resources only to achieve an outcome that's worse than before. From my standpoint, most of the other poll choices are irrelevant (except Russia) in that they will not make or break America. The poll needs to include China. There is a good chance that we are already at economic and cyber war with the Chinese. I would like to get a sense for how we are going beat them.