Where did KF's recruiting turn for the worse?

[HoustonHawkeye]

Looking at Iowa's recruiting vs MSU's. Right now, MSU has 17 commits, of which only 2 are from Michigan, only 1 is a 2-star, 7 are 4-stars, 5 are from the Chicago area, and they have another 4-star receiver looking at them (already have 2 4-star receivers). KF had his 3 10-win seasons, coach of the year awards, momentum...so where did he take the wrong turn in the road:

 

[The Outside Noise]

You forgot, "When he signed his lifetime contract," as an option.

 

[JStandefer]

As Eric Johnson eluded, I think it was a conscience shift to get KF program guys.

I firmly believe that KF is more comfortable with 'his guys', the hard working practice guys than he is with sensational talented athletes that may not have the same work ethic.

The problem is, for a "developmental program", you can't keep running off recruits, in many instances, your most talented recruits.

 

[bouma1415]

I would think that Coach Kazinski had some part of the decline. Defense has always been Iowa's main card to play. Too many defections of defensive lineman. It all starts at the line of scrimmage.

 

[Joe Chap]

I would think that Coach Kazinski had some part of the decline. Defense has always been Iowa's main card to play. Too many defections of defensive lineman. It all starts at the line of scrimmage.

Here's the old "Kaz did it" line again, despite the fact that the Husker D line has two of the top players in the BIG, Curry and Valentine. Yeah, glad he's gone but he did bring in and keep talent.

 

[Cougar63]

Whats your point?

 

[BigHawk]

I think they have fallen victim to their arrogance. To me, it seems they think they can take any kid and make them an All-American. In a very short time they were proving to be one of the best staffs at developing kids..Sanders, Gallery, Clark..were amazing examples of that. But, those kids don't come along every year. At some point you do have to win recruiting battles against like or bigger programs. After having toured the new facility, if they can't start recruiting better....there are issues.

 

[GoHawks1966]

Whats your point?

Norm Parker was the brain behind the great defenses. He could recruit, coach, and most importantly knew how to develop great players. KF is a puppet, if winning depended on him he would have never saw another contract. He needs to leave or upgrade his OC and DC. He is surrounded by idiots and he is number one!

 

[CAhawki]

I think it was after the 07(?) season and we had the string of arrests. Our recruiting has been in a decline since then. But its not just recruiting. Look at the atmosphere around kinnick. Tailgating has taking a turn, which tells me it comes from the top. I will be interested to see what happens once Mason is completely out.

 

[greenelite]

I feel like recruiting changed after the Domo CBI Doug/Everson/Satterfield/Cleveland/Nelson fiascos. I think KF believes that recruiting kids with potential character issues is too much of a liability in this fishbowl, and it has absolutely damaged the on-field product. That's why we'll have a white punt returner until KF gets shown the door.

 

[sober_teacher]

a couple of thoughts.

first, Ferentz has shown a tendency to turn away from states if players from there end up having issues of one sort or another, be it legal, transfer or whatever. see PA, chicago area, florida at times.

second, ferentz's strategy has always been to recruit and develop, realizing that it is difficult at best to recruit 4 and 5 star players consistently to iowa. this is not to use as an excuse, but simple reality, and ferentz does go after those players...sometimes, and not nearly as often as we might like. the biggest problem with the developing players strategy is that it requires iowa to retain those players. they HAVE to be 3 and 4 year players. no one was really high on hitchens or kirksey, for example, as freshman or sophomore, but boy did they develop during their time and both were drafted.

third, to me it's simply an accumulation of things over time. KF has always been a "conservative" coach, and overall i don't have an issue with that. but during the 1st 8 years or so, he (and his staff) were able to take chances when the time was appropriate. at some point over the past few years, he's gone, to me at least, from being conservative to playing it "safe." both during the season and recruiting. this makes it harder to hit that home run we want from it. and for me at least, its also why i'm ready for a change.

i don't hate ferentz, he has DONE many great things while at iowa. i would love nothing more to have one last good/great season so he can ride off into the sunset.

btw, for those of you who want him fired or simply gone this season, don't hold your breath. unless the wheels completely fall off the wagon, i have a very difficult time seeing iowa/gary barta making a coaching change while the iowa presidency is still up in the air. barta is not likely to do anything major until he knows where he stands, and that's not likely to happen until winter sometime.

 

[Section8]

I think it was after the 07(?) season and we had the string of arrests. Our recruiting has been in a decline since then. But its not just recruiting. Look at the atmosphere around kinnick. Tailgating has taking a turn, which tells me it comes from the top. I will be interested to see what happens once Mason is completely out.

 

[Section8]

I always wondered how Hayden, in his prime, would have handled Sally Mason. I think he would have crushed her. KF/GB allowed themselves to be abused by her, for a nice paycheck.

 

[the Howler]

Do you know what can appease a fanbase and keep ticket sales up? Hope.

In college football, hope comes mostly from good recruiting and coaching potential.

KF hasn't won at a high level with his new coordinators, and he hasn't recruited at a high level since 2005. Put those two things together and you have a program that is stuck in neutral, and if we're going to be honest with each other, it's likely worse than neutral.

The one morsel of hope I have is the new facility, and the luster of that building will not last forever.

 

[iowalaw]

Like others have said, the decline occurred when we had a string of very talented athletes commit a string of crimes. Guys from Ohio (we had a pipeline from Ted Ginn's high school at one time) were coming in droves. A bunch of them committed crimes and the pipeline dried up. Ferentz stopped going for the inner city guys, and started recruiting exclusively out of Algona and Rock Rapids.

 

[Cougar63]

Norm Parker was the brain behind the great defenses. He could recruit, coach, and most importantly knew how to develop great players. KF is a puppet, if winning depended on him he would have never saw another contract. He needs to leave or upgrade his OC and DC. He is surrounded by idiots and he is number one!

I was asking Joe Chap. I agree that KF needs better coordinators

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Iowa will recruit best when it has less competition for Midwest recruits (duh). So, today, Notre Dame, Wisky, Minny, Missouri, & Nebby are all doing well. In addition, say what you want about the MAC, they play pretty good football. So, Northern Ill and others are picking up decent players from the recruiting pool.

Iowa's best chance for recruits are kids that live within 5 or 6 hours from IC. Obviously we need some talent from FL and TX, but you can't build a team from there. You have to have Midwest kids and they have a lot of good choices for good programs right now.

Oh, and just to stay with the theme here - KF is an idiot that couldn't recruit his grandmother to a family reunion. Better?

 

[Herkmeister]

If Bill can sell Manhattan, KS why can't Kirk sell Iowa City? Face the fact: IF YOU CAN'T SELL IOWA CITY, YOU CAN'T SELL ANYTHING!!!!!!!

 

[gryzz14]

Iowa will recruit best when it has less competition for Midwest recruits (duh). So, today, Notre Dame, Wisky, Minny, Missouri, & Nebby are all doing well. In addition, say what you want about the MAC, they play pretty good football. So, Northern Ill and others are picking up decent players from the recruiting pool.

Iowa's best chance for recruits are kids that live within 5 or 6 hours from IC. Obviously we need some talent from FL and TX, but you can't build a team from there. You have to have Midwest kids and they have a lot of good choices for good programs right now.

Oh, and just to stay with the theme here - KF is an idiot that couldn't recruit his grandmother to a family reunion. Better?

Wait a minute, you are saying a $4 million job is difficult? I thought we were just giving him that money to roll out some footballs and graduate players.

Tell me about this magical time when all the teams you listed sucked. Even when a couple of them were down, teams like Illinois, Michigan, and Purdue were up. And you left off Michigan St, who has supplanted us in Chicago. I don't think KF needs you to make excuses on why he isn't earning the 10th highest salary in the nation, especially because you are stating the obvious.

I feel like I am being left out of some big joke everyone is playing on here. Kirk haterz call him a peabrain when he had 4 top 10 finishes in the last decade and actually help the argument that a call for him getting fired is irrational.

Kirk fluffers make the dumbest excuse why he should stay: power 5 football is difficult. The second excuse goes hand in hand with that: because football is hard, success can be 5 losses and not finishing in the top 25 the last 5 years running. It's not, you are delusional, and you are hurting KF more than helping.

2000s Kirk was a great coach; 2010s Kirk should be fired. The game passed him by, it happens to most coaches sooner or later.

 

[SigMaintHawk]

Like others have said, the decline occurred when we had a string of very talented athletes commit a string of crimes. Guys from Ohio (we had a pipeline from Ted Ginn's high school at one time) were coming in droves. A bunch of them committed crimes and the pipeline dried up. Ferentz stopped going for the inner city guys, and started recruiting exclusively out of Algona and Rock Rapids.

Outside of Arvell Nelson, which Ohio based players committed crimes? I think Iowa signed a grand total of 5 players from Glenville(Ted Ginn's school). LeBron Daniel,Derrick Smith,William Lowe, Bruce Davis, and Nelson. The other 4 committed crimes? Which one's and what were their crimes?

DJK was from Ohio, but not from Glennville-what crimes was he convicted of as a member of the sqaud?I'm having a brainfart about DJK's time at Iowa as a player. Was he convicted of some drug charges during his time with the team or was it after he used up his eligibility?

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Whoaaaa there! Not defending KF, simply stating a fact. I'm ready to move on from KF as well. But, if you look at the recruiting landscape it was better for Iowa in the early 2,000's. Now it is tougher. We need a coach that can deal with it.

I just don't happen to believe that KF is asleep at the wheel.

 

[The Outside Noise]

Whoaaaa there! Not defending KF, simply stating a fact. I'm ready to move on from KF as well. But, if you look at the recruiting landscape it was better for Iowa in the early 2,000's. Now it is tougher. We need a coach that can deal with it.

I just don't happen to believe that KF is asleep at the wheel.

Well if he's not asleep, he's blowing about a .25.

 

[MepoDawg#]

Attrition led to no back ups and with injuries led to more losses which led to a downturn in recruiting. So it's attrition, whether it be injuries, kicked off, or other reasons.

 

[iowalaw]

For starters, Micha Hyde and Ray Hamilton (both of Ohio) were arrested on the same day. More relevant, though, is this:

Iowa responds to report that 18 football players had criminal records
[ 14 ]March 2, 2011 | Tom Witosky

By TOM WITOSKY
twitosky@dmreg.com

Iowa athletic officials acknowledged Wednesday that 18 members of last season’s football team have criminal records, but pointed out that all charges were misdemeanors, most were alcohol-related and they dated back to 2007.

Officials issued a statement in response to an investigative project, promoted by Sports Illustrated and CBS Sports, that measured the number of players with criminal histories on the 25 teams ranked by SI before the start of last season.

Iowa was listed as second-highest, tied with Arkansas, in terms of number of players with criminal records. Pittsburgh ranked first with 22.

Outside of Arvell Nelson, which Ohio based players committed crimes? I think Iowa signed a grand total of 5 players from Glenville(Ted Ginn's school). LeBron Daniel,Derrick Smith,William Lowe, Bruce Davis, and Nelson. The other 4 committed crimes? Which one's and what were their crimes?

DJK was from Ohio, but not from Glennville-what crimes was he convicted of as a member of the sqaud?I'm having a brainfart about DJK's time at Iowa as a player. Was he convicted of some drug charges during his time with the team or was it after he used up his eligibility?

 

[MepoDawg#]

I wouldn't count alcohol tickets as a character issue unless it multiple times. Thus that story was pretty pointless which was discussed at the time.

 

[SigMaintHawk]

For starters, Micha Hyde and Ray Hamilton (both of Ohio) were arrested on the same day. More relevant, though, is this:

Iowa responds to report that 18 football players had criminal records
[ 14 ]March 2, 2011 | Tom Witosky

By TOM WITOSKY
twitosky@dmreg.com

Iowa athletic officials acknowledged Wednesday that 18 members of last season’s football team have criminal records, but pointed out that all charges were misdemeanors, most were alcohol-related and they dated back to 2007.

Officials issued a statement in response to an investigative project, promoted by Sports Illustrated and CBS Sports, that measured the number of players with criminal histories on the 25 teams ranked by SI before the start of last season.

Iowa was listed as second-highest, tied with Arkansas, in terms of number of players with criminal records. Pittsburgh ranked first with 22.

Outside of Nelson, which other of the 4 players from Glennville, had committed crimes? The article also talks about DJK's arrest/deferrment.. So, his time at Iowa, was not clean...

 

[Eburghawk]

It went bad when Sean Lee committed to Penn. St and Kirk's reaction to that was "We're not going to recruit the state of Pennsylvania anymore".

 

[Ray1125]

Why doesn't Iowa recruit California? That just blows my mind. One advantage of being one of the most western teams in the B1G is being obviously closer to the west coast huge talent pool. And Arizona has good talent too.

Both Cali/AZ have fed Nebraska's program for decades. I realize Nebraska is more western obviously, but not enough to make a difference.

Guys from California/Arizona Nebraska is seriously in the mix for or have committed:

3* QB Patrick O'Brien (Elite 11 Finalist) - Committed
4* S Marquel Dismuke - Strong chance he's going to Nebraska.
4* WR Michael Pittman - Strong chance he's going to Nebraska.
3* LB William Johnson - Committed
5* LB Mique Juarez (#1 rated player in California/#1 OLB) - "Nebraska is a big (visit) the first week of my senior season," Juarez said.

^^^^^ All of these guys are 5.7 3* and above. And there will undoubtedly be more for 2016.

And that doesn't include Keyshaw Johnson's kid who has visited Nebraska 3-4 times and will be a highly rated WR. Or 5* CB Darnay Holmes who has visited and is very interested, etc. Several more have visited I just can't think of them at the moment. Huskers have pulled MANY recruits from the west coast, including all-time greats and NFL guys like Suh from Oregon, Mike Brown from Arizona, Ralph Brown from Cali, Roy Helu, Eric Hagg, etcetera.

And Iowa? Nowhere to be seen in the entire region. Mind blown. Guess Iowa would rather go after the rust belt because kids there have more natural interest in the B1G and you don't have to go against the Pac schools. I don't think that's a smart thing to do.

 

[MadDogC]

Last Penn State game with KOK--KF didn't see the value of up-tempo in the game before with the miracle comeback against Pitt, scrapped it for the season against PSU. Just a hunch but think KOK was done with it then...

 

[SigMaintHawk]

Iowa has a cb from Anaheim that is currently planning on visiting again soon. They had a group of kids in for a visit from Cali a couple of months ago. It would help if KF hired somebody with ties out there. Kennedy had some ties a long time ago when he was at AZ and Udub, maybe a couple of ties from his short stint at CU? As far as Nebbie goes going forward- Duh? Look at where some members of the staff came from. It would be stupid if they didn't use their ties to the West Coast
Iowa has "spot" recruited kids from Az,Colorado, and Cali in the past. Maybe 6-7 kids in the past 3-5 years. Including a top cb from Az this year. I do wish they would look west alot more than they do, though.
Iowa should have a decent chance against the Wazzu's, Fresno State's, Utah State's, Colorado's, etc... of the world, for a few prospects.

 

[Ray1125]

As far as Nebbie goes going forward- Duh? Look at where some members of the staff came from. It would be stupid if they didn't use their ties to the West Coast.

Thanks for the response. As far as Nebraska going forward with their ties to the west coast....every football coach at Nebraska I've ever seen going back to TO has signed a boat load of recruits from the west coast. I can't think of a guy on Bo P's staff who was from the west coast or had much at all in the way of ties. Same thing with Florida. Same with Texas. The vast majority of the staff were from or had ties to the midwest/rust belt and Louisiana/Georgia. They signed many players from those three states, however.

Just thought it was kind of interesting. In my opinion, a 5.6/5.7 3* from the south/west coast, is oftentimes on the same level of some 4* from Detroit or better. And that talent market is cornered by Ohio St, Notre Dame & Michigan. And now Michigan St, especially in Illinois. And Penn St further east. That rust belt/B1G country has talent for sure, but not as much as the south/west coast and the market is heavily saturated in that pool that lacks depth. New Jersey is still an intriguing spot, even Maryland. The midwest/rust belt is a solid region for linemen, but not as much for skill positions/athletes. Focusing a lot, or even the majority of your recruiting emphasis, in that region.....might be time for a change. Use your geographic location to your advantage being further west than 95% of the rest of the conference. That includes the states of Texas/California - 2/3 of the most abundant talent pools in the country.

 

[SigMaintHawk]

^I guess it comes down to a willingness on the HC to want to spend resources in that area. Nebby sent multiple coaches out there(past staff, to recruit-Garrison,Els,Brown,Fischer,Beck, might be missing a couple.. Sorry. Iowa prolly had 1-2 checking a couple of kids out. I don't fully understand the whole story behind it, but that is what it is currently under KF's regime.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

Lack of big time skill position players.

Great o-lines can be moulded from local talent. But, big time receivers and backs almost always need to be enticed here from the football hotbeds.

 

[B1G]

I think it started with the city boys. Then Norm's health problems and Rhabo. A culmination of things. Even losing KOK.

 

[cocoem]

Norm Parker was the brain behind the great defenses. He could recruit, coach, and most importantly knew how to develop great players. KF is a puppet, if winning depended on him he would have never saw another contract. He needs to leave or upgrade his OC and DC. He is surrounded by idiots and he is number one!

Norm never left the office

 

[cocoem]

Why doesn't Iowa recruit California? That just blows my mind. One advantage of being one of the most western teams in the B1G is being obviously closer to the west coast huge talent pool. And Arizona has good talent too.

Both Cali/AZ have fed Nebraska's program for decades. I realize Nebraska is more western obviously, but not enough to make a difference.

Guys from California/Arizona Nebraska is seriously in the mix for or have committed:

3* QB Patrick O'Brien (Elite 11 Finalist) - Committed
4* S Marquel Dismuke - Strong chance he's going to Nebraska.
4* WR Michael Pittman - Strong chance he's going to Nebraska.
3* LB William Johnson - Committed
5* LB Mique Juarez (#1 rated player in California/#1 OLB) - "Nebraska is a big (visit) the first week of my senior season," Juarez said.

^^^^^ All of these guys are 5.7 3* and above. And there will undoubtedly be more for 2016.

And that doesn't include Keyshaw Johnson's kid who has visited Nebraska 3-4 times and will be a highly rated WR. Or 5* CB Darnay Holmes who has visited and is very interested, etc. Several more have visited I just can't think of them at the moment. Huskers have pulled MANY recruits from the west coast, including all-time greats and NFL guys like Suh from Oregon, Mike Brown from Arizona, Ralph Brown from Cali, Roy Helu, Eric Hagg, etcetera.

And Iowa? Nowhere to be seen in the entire region. Mind blown. Guess Iowa would rather go after the rust belt because kids there have more natural interest in the B1G and you don't have to go against the Pac schools. I don't think that's a smart thing to do.

As far as Keyshawn Johnson Jr...he is a lock for Nebraska. His old man is a HUGE street agent.(pay me cash and I will get you hooked up and get you rated higher type of agent). His OC at USC was Mike Riley and he loved him. USC has shunned a lot of former players while they try to clean up their image from the Bush saga. Keyshawn-SR is steering a ton of kids to Nebraska. Don't be shocked when the talent at the skill positions keep rolling into Nebbie...gotta be connected.

 

[The Outside Noise]

How many kids are on the roster from Algona or Rock Rapids? Do you even realize how ignorant it is to post this?

Awesome first post, but you would think a university paid poster would know parody and be aware of Poe's Law!

 

[The Outside Noise]

Norm never left the office

Maybe Kirk should try this, so his game plans don't look like they were scribbled on a napkin at breakfast on game day?

 

[theIowaHawk]

As Eric Johnson eluded, I think it was a conscience shift to get KF program guys.

I missed where he eluded, care to link?

 

[theIowaHawk]

If Bill can sell Manhattan, KS why can't Kirk sell Iowa City? Face the fact: IF YOU CAN'T SELL IOWA CITY, YOU CAN'T SELL ANYTHING!!!!!!!

Follow through with this: who do you believe has gotten the better recruiting classes, K St or Iowa?

Snyder is one of the best coaches in the nation, clear cut hall of famer.

Some of you really are idiots.