Will this year be the biggest test of Brand's coaching at Iowa?

[MSU158]

Hopefully it can end up being the best testament to his coaching when/if they win it all.


I decided to try to figure out lineups for several top teams and then pick the Top 5 finishers. After really looking at Iowa's projected lineup, I can't help but think they will be very hard pressed to finish top 3. PSU, tOSU and OkState look to be very good next season.

Iowa will have starters at 141, 157, 165, 174 and 285 with a combined 0 wins at the NCAA tournament. The other 5 are nearly polar opposites. Gilman, Clark, Sorenson, Brooks and Burak are a super solid Nucleus. Still, are they enough to pull this team to the 100 point mark that would be most likely to win it all?

Is the following the most likely lineup?

125:Gilman-Everyone not an Iowa fan dislikes him. I love him. He wears his emotions on his sleeve and can be quite mean. I was always taught you needed a mean streak on the mat. He will be hardpressed to do better than 4th but I could see Top3.

133:Clark-Wow. He was so inconsistent this year, but many on this board kept picking him anyway. I guess it helps to be close to home. I would have never guessed he would make the finals and inevitably be the only guy to give Brewer a match. He will still have his hands full if Brewer, Taylor, Gulibon and Beckman all return. Still, he will finish Top 3.

141:Ugh. I have avoided commenting on any legal issues. Does this weight end up being Carton's by default? As much as Dziewa polarized the Iowa fanbase are we likely to see an NCAA points at this weight?

149:Sorenson-One of the most mentally sound freshman I have seen in a long time. Too bad he was overshadowed by fellow freshman, Martinez. This kid is really, really good. I look forward to seeing him open it up a bit next season. I expect to see him in the Finals.

157:Grothus/Cooper? If Kelly wrestled it all season, does that not mean these guys couldn't beat him? By proxy, will they be any better? Could be a big ?

165:Insiders? Paddock is talked about the most, but no one really confirms it. Is there a solid heir apparent waiting in the wings? Still, another big ?

174:Meyer-Now here is the first bonafide legit replacement. I like this kid's mentality and he goes for it. He may not actually be better than Evans but his style and 174 clearing out may actually have him end up producing more than Evans did.

184:Brooks-Hopefully he can stay 100% and go back to his early season style. The kid is good and could be the big bonus point scorer they need to stay in contention.

197:Burak-He has to come back for them to have any chance. If he redshirts I just don't see them contending.

285:Stoll-Mixed results. Iowa has seemed to have very solid 285's even though they seem to have limited work out partners. Will this finally catch up to them or can he get going on all cylinders by the March of 2016?

Do you guys see 100 points this season? Do you see 84 like this past season? Can Brands do what it takes to really coach this team up? So many fans think it is a 2 horse race between PSU and tOSU. I am not sold PSU is as good as everyone thinks they are. I am really interested to see what Brands does with this team.

Your thoughts?

 

[TailgateTom]

Originally posted by MSU158:

Hopefully it can end up being the best testament to his coaching when/if they win it all.


I decided to try to figure out lineups for several top teams and then pick the Top 5 finishers. After really looking at Iowa's projected lineup, I can't help but think they will be very hard pressed to finish top 3. PSU, tOSU and OkState look to be very good next season.

Iowa will have starters at 141, 157, 165, 174 and 285 with a combined 0 wins at the NCAA tournament. The other 5 are nearly polar opposites. Gilman, Clark, Sorenson, Brooks and Burak are a super solid Nucleus. Still, are they enough to pull this team to the 100 point mark that would be most likely to win it all?

Is the following the most likely lineup?

125:Gilman-Everyone not an Iowa fan dislikes him. I love him. He wears his emotions on his sleeve and can be quite mean. I was always taught you needed a mean streak on the mat. He will be hardpressed to do better than 4th but I could see Top3.

133:Clark-Wow. He was so inconsistent this year, but many on this board kept picking him anyway. I guess it helps to be close to home. I would have never guessed he would make the finals and inevitably be the only guy to give Brewer a match. He will still have his hands full if Brewer, Taylor, Gulibon and Beckman all return. Still, he will finish Top 3.

141:Ugh. I have avoided commenting on any legal issues. Does this weight end up being Carton's by default? As much as Dziewa polarized the Iowa fanbase are we likely to see an NCAA points at this weight?

149:Sorenson-One of the most mentally sound freshman I have seen in a long time. Too bad he was overshadowed by fellow freshman, Martinez. This kid is really, really good. I look forward to seeing him open it up a bit next season. I expect to see him in the Finals.

157:Grothus/Cooper? If Kelly wrestled it all season, does that not mean these guys couldn't beat him? By proxy, will they be any better? Could be a big ?

165:Insiders? Paddock is talked about the most, but no one really confirms it. Is there a solid heir apparent waiting in the wings? Still, another big ?

174:Meyer-Now here is the first bonafide legit replacement. I like this kid's mentality and he goes for it. He may not actually be better than Evans but his style and 174 clearing out may actually have him end up producing more than Evans did.

184:Brooks-Hopefully he can stay 100% and go back to his early season style. The kid is good and could be the big bonus point scorer they need to stay in contention.

197:Burak-He has to come back for them to have any chance. If he redshirts I just don't see them contending.

285:Stoll-Mixed results. Iowa has seemed to have very solid 285's even though they seem to have limited work out partners. Will this finally catch up to them or can he get going on all cylinders by the March of 2016?

Do you guys see 100 points this season? Do you see 84 like this past season? Can Brands do what it takes to really coach this team up? So many fans think it is a 2 horse race between PSU and tOSU. I am not sold PSU is as good as everyone thinks they are. I am really interested to see what Brands does with this team.

Your thoughts?

I feel like this is pretty much a non-issue, considering we scored a whopping 1.5 points between 41, 57 and 65 this year.

 

[HawkTalk3]

Originally posted by TailgateTom:

I feel like this is pretty much a non-issue, considering we scored a whopping 1.5 points between 41, 57 and 65 this year.

Dziewa scored 3 points according to Track Wrestling.

Iowa is replacing 25.5 points (3 from Dziewa, 9 from Evans, 13.5 from Telford).

 

[Jackhawk87]

I think you pretty much summed it up.

In some cases (the starters and Meyer), you probably have an optomistic outlook. I think you are pretty much right, but that is assuming that there are no injuries or stumbles for these guys during the season or at NCAAs. Little upside in your projections for these guys, IMO. If we are going to compete for the championship, we are going to need a couple of these guys to perform above expectations/have a breakout season and make the finals/win it all.

Probably not going to get a whole lot of points out of 141, 165, and 285 - hard to predict an AA at any of these weights.

157 - optomistic that Brody can get strong enough to compete and get to AA status, but he has some work to do.

 

[HoundedHawk]

I'm waiting to see if they can figure out how to make their team peak at the end of the year.

5 year general drought of that, imo.

 

[MSU158]

Dziewa scored 3 points. Also, they lose the 13.5 from Telford. I am most confident Meyer can replicate the 9 Iowa loses from Evans.

I will without a shred of doubt say that the Brands brothers are my favorite coaches. They don't just say what they think people want to hear. They are emotional and they literally bleed Hawkeye colors. I really think this is the year they can really showcase their coaching abilities. This roster has the most question marks they have had since they took over. I have no doubt they will do well. How well will be the big question mark. What is the realistic expectations for this squad? Maybe 3rd? If they finish there will it be acceptable? Can they finish higher? Or more importantly, should they?

Again, this is the year where their coaching will be essential to their postseason outcome.
This post was edited on 4/16 8:31 AM by MSU158

 

[TailgateTom]

Although my math sucks, my point remains.

 

[1stplacehawk]

This team could win but there is almost no room for error unless someone has a breakout season. Gilman, Clark and Sorensen need to score 50+ points between them, and Meyer, Brooks and Burak need to AA. We could have a little more breathing room if someone from 141, 157, 165, and 285 gets to an AA level.

 

[Jackhawk87]

BTW, if I remember correctly, Brands did an outstanding job of coaching his second year here. At the beginning of the year, we were not expected to do much and there were multiple wrestlers that had unexpectedly great years.

Third and fourth years were very good as well, but more expected.

 

[Ihawkd9times]

IMO this last year was his biggest test. We had a team to win it, SR leadership was in place form a #1 recruiting class and just fell short. Some of that due to injuries. But injuries happen. I wonder how much our guys are being ran into the ground anymore. Seems we peak more at BIGs lately than NCAAs.

This year will also be a test but I just think this past year was our best chance at a team title for a couple of years. We are going to need to put Gilman, Clark, Sorenson in the finals with 2 winning it. And Brooks and Meyer will need to be wrestling for 3rds at no worse 5ths to have a chance. And Grothus just has to get in that 7th place match. I like Brody but I dont feel very good about him at 157 regardles at what some of us will try and talk ourselvesinto believing. Unless someone like Carton just comes out and suprises with a Sorenson type year. IMO better chance of him than Paddock or Stoll.

I thought it was Ohio States to lose at this time last year. Was told Ryan would choke by many or that I ownt believe their freshman will be that good by other. Both crowds wrong. They did it even without Hunter Stieber is even more impressive.

This season I have PSU as the team to beat and Ohio State 2nd then I think there is a gap until 3rd. And that where i have Iowa. I feel like we are competing for 3rd more than 1st this season.

All comes down to those 2-3 deep horses. PSU has Zain and Nico and McCintosh. I feel thats more of a safe bet than any other schools threesomes. tOSU with Snyder, Tomasello, BoJo and wildcard H. Stieber. Gilman, Clark and Sorenson need to become those pretty much lock for the finals types. .

I give PSU and advantage because Nico can beat the other 2 horses. Gullibon pretty much washes out Clark. Mac washes out Burak. And Zain is interesting. Goes 149 and I still think he could be the guy to beat. Too great of a rider not to in a weight class that struggles for TD's. After watching Sorenson being ridden a bit by Tshirt and Houdy i have to go with Zain at this point. Going OT is a bad recipe. Sorenson needs first period TD's to beat Tshirt and Zain. Dont let them on you. Simple as that.

 

[Jackhawk87]

I think Brands is an outstanding coach. There is a need to find the correct wrestlers for his brand of coaching. When we have "down" years, I don't necessarily think it is a bad job of coaching, but a mix of wrestlers that don't really buy in or don't have the athletic skills to succeed or are injured.

Wrestlers that embrace the grind and have good skills will thrive under Brands tutelage. Guys like McD, Ramos, Metcalf, Dennis, Gilman, Clark (I think), Sorensen, Meyer, Brooks, etc. will reach their full potential (and exceed expectations).

Many of our misses (Jeva, J. Ballweg, Baldy, Scon, etc.) didn't have the drive to succeed under Brands. Maybe a guy like Jeva would have been better served to be in a different program. Coming out of HS, he talked the talk and wrestled like you would expect an Iowa wrestler to wrestle. I am not dissing on Jeva. He thought he had the drive coming out of HS, but just didn't seem to fully buy in once he got here.

When the fans don't get a guy that we would like (say Meeks or McCauley for example), we have to ask ourselves, is he a guy that will buy in and thrive in the Iowa room? Brands is the best to evaluate this.

Guys that buy in make the US World Freestyle team. Those that don't, don't.

While Cael and Ryan's coaching style seems to be to get the absolute studs - and then not ruin them, Brands takes a different approach.

 

[Ihawkd9times]

Weight changes that help us.

Brewer- No way he will make 133 again this year. Missed half the year trying to make it last year. Helps Clark.


Ones that will hurt.

149. Zain going up? but another elite in Sorensons path
174. Mark my words either Dieringer goes up or BoJo will. Suprised they both make 165, will be even more suprised if one of them isnt licking his chops looking at the 174 returnees. Why cut so hard to run into a wall vs Deringer/Bojo or even Realbuto or I.Jordan. Disadvantage Meyer. And if we feel good about 174 clearing out for Meyer. Imagine the grin on Bo Nickals face.

125. Nico off resdhirt is not good news for any 125 elite.

Mizzou. Still feel like Cox will RS, come out HWT in 2 yrs and Miklus bumps to 197. Good for Sammy, not for Burak or Stoll in 2.

 

[clhawks00]

I am high on Stoll. Berhow has a great track record with HWT guys and also having Telford to wrestle with would be huge for Stoll. Anybody know if he is sticking around the HWC? I hope so. 157 will be an improvement next year of our guys can put on weight the right way. 165 and 141 are question marks. Next year will be stacked though so who knows.

 

[Jackhawk87]

Originally posted by Ihawkd9times:


Weight changes that help us.

Brewer- No way he will make 133 again this year. Missed half the year trying to make it last year. Helps Clark.


Ones that will hurt.

149. Zain going up? but another elite in Sorensons path
174. Mark my words either Dieringer goes up or BoJo will. Suprised they both make 165, will be even more suprised if one of them isnt licking his chops looking at the 174 returnees. Why cut so hard to run into a wall vs Deringer/Bojo or even Realbuto or I.Jordan. Disadvantage Meyer. And if we feel good about 174 clearing out for Meyer. Imagine the grin on Bo Nickals face.

125. Nico off resdhirt is not good news for any 125 elite.

Mizzou. Still feel like Cox will RS, come out HWT in 2 yrs and Miklus bumps to 197. Good for Sammy, not for Burak or Stoll in 2.

I think both Brooks and Burak beat Miklus. If Cox RS and Miklus moves up, definite good for Burak and slight good for Sammy (as he won't have to compete with him, even though I think he wins).

 

[HawkTalk3]

Cox can't RS can he? I mean I know it's still available, but Missouri has no HWT's on roster and no HWT incoming.

At least that's my thinking

 

[Ihawkd9times]

Originally posted by Jackhawk87:

I think Brands is an outstanding coach. There is a need to find the correct wrestlers for his brand of coaching. When we have "down" years, I don't necessarily think it is a bad job of coaching, but a mix of wrestlers that don't really buy in or don't have the athletic skills to succeed or are injured.

Wrestlers that embrace the grind and have good skills will thrive under Brands tutelage. Guys like McD, Ramos, Metcalf, Dennis, Gilman, Clark (I think), Sorensen, Meyer, Brooks, etc. will reach their full potential (and exceed expectations).

Many of our misses (Jeva, J. Ballweg, Baldy, Scon, etc.) didn't have the drive to succeed under Brands. Maybe a guy like Jeva would have been better served to be in a different program. Coming out of HS, he talked the talk and wrestled like you would expect an Iowa wrestler to wrestle. I am not dissing on Jeva. He thought he had the drive coming out of HS, but just didn't seem to fully buy in once he got here.

When the fans don't get a guy that we would like (say Meeks or McCauley for example), we have to ask ourselves, is he a guy that will buy in and thrive in the Iowa room? Brands is the best to evaluate this.

Guys that buy in make the US World Freestyle team. Those that don't, don't.

While Cael and Ryan's coaching style seems to be to get the absolute studs - and then not ruin them, Brands takes a different approach.

Thats kind of the problem, the guys with that mentality a majoority of the time dont have the talent to come with to reach the Metcalf type levels. If the talent isnt there we get that plodding wrestler. Sure he will run through walls and is wired goofy but wheres his ceiling?

The guys with the very high end talent realize that you can be a national champion in all kinds of different rooms beacuase they all wrestle so much nationally in HS tourny's, club team etc... and know where they are at vs their peers. It isnt just Iowa's room that only produces NCAA champs anymore. Gable had an advantage that isnt there anymore in modern wrestling. Gable would turn you into a champ so lets go there. To be the best you have to be in that room. Right Tarp? Those days are over. You can win a hodge anywhere now.

Also the Iowa being so superior in conditioning isnt there anymore. Between the lack of stall calls and the Gable coaches tree branching out eveywhere its basically a non factor anymore.

So why deal with the Brands brothers unless you are that 1% type elite guy? Not saying its right or wrong. It is what it is.

 

[Jackhawk87]

Would McD, Ramos, or Metcalf be where they are at challenging to be the best in the world if they didn't wrestle and train with Brands?

How about Gilman, Clark, Sorensen, Meyer?

I would agree that most top end talent don't need Brands to become the best (at least in college). That is why it is so important for Iowa to pick the right wrestlers and the right wrestlers to pick us. Brands probably needs to learn to diversify his teaching to get guys that don't buy in 100% to reach their maximum potential anyways.

Hopefully every wrestler with the McD, Ramos, Metcalf (Lee, Hall, etc.) mentality choose to come to Iowa to reach their full potential.

 

[hurlhawk]

Originally posted by clhawks00:
I am high on Stoll. Berhow has a great track record with HWT guys and also having Telford to wrestle with would be huge for Stoll. Anybody know if he is sticking around the HWC? I hope so. 157 will be an improvement next year of our guys can put on weight the right way. 165 and 141 are question marks. Next year will be stacked though so who knows.

Talked to Bobby after AGON. He is planning to wrestle with HWC - definitely to Stoll's (and the team's) advantage!

 

[OldHawkFan]

I believe in Grothus and Meyers. With the returning Firepower, it gives Iowa a chance.
Gilman, Clark, Sorenson, Grothus, Meyers, Brooks have all shown the ability to put up big bonus points (Burak is Burak). I think Iowa has looked tired at the NCAAs th past 3 years. If the Brands can get them to peak at the right time next year, this team can win it all. That being said, PSU is loaded and it will take a darn near flawless effort for Iowa to beat PSU. I think OSU has some legit studs but are not as deep.
As of right, now I see it next year:
1) PSU
2) Iowa
3) OSU
4) Ok St

But I do believe the Hawks can win it.

 

[pumpdog20]

Originally posted by Jackhawk87:

I think Brands is an outstanding coach. There is a need to find the correct wrestlers for his brand of coaching. When we have "down" years, I don't necessarily think it is a bad job of coaching, but a mix of wrestlers that don't really buy in or don't have the athletic skills to succeed or are injured.

Wrestlers that embrace the grind and have good skills will thrive under Brands tutelage. Guys like McD, Ramos, Metcalf, Dennis, Gilman, Clark (I think), Sorensen, Meyer, Brooks, etc. will reach their full potential (and exceed expectations).

Many of our misses (Jeva, J. Ballweg, Baldy, Scon, etc.) didn't have the drive to succeed under Brands. Maybe a guy like Jeva would have been better served to be in a different program. Coming out of HS, he talked the talk and wrestled like you would expect an Iowa wrestler to wrestle. I am not dissing on Jeva. He thought he had the drive coming out of HS, but just didn't seem to fully buy in once he got here.

When the fans don't get a guy that we would like (say Meeks or McCauley for example), we have to ask ourselves, is he a guy that will buy in and thrive in the Iowa room? Brands is the best to evaluate this.

Guys that buy in make the US World Freestyle team. Those that don't, don't.

While Cael and Ryan's coaching style seems to be to get the absolute studs - and then not ruin them, Brands takes a different approach.

How can anyone say Jeva didn't buy in? He just spent 5 years in the program, when he could have done what others who didn't buy in did, and that was either leave or quit wrestling altogether.

Jeva bought in, he just didn't meet our expectations, however fair or unfair that is.

 

[Jackhawk87]

Ok. I will give you that it is totally unfair of me to place Jeva in the category of the other 3 mentioned. Jeva is a tremendous talent. I don't think he reached his true potential. He was wrestling his best at the end of nationals. Personally, I like Jeva, but he didn't totally buy into what Brands was selling. Is that Jeva's fault? Is that Brands' fault for not modifying his teaching/motivational tactics more to get the most out of Jeva's talent?

If Jeva trained and attacked like McD, Ramos, Metcalf, etc. I think he would have been more successful - but that isn't his style and perhaps not in his DNA (as it isn't for most wrestlers). I am sure he put in the work. I am not questioning his heart or his dedication or his love for the Iowa Hawkeyes. I am simply using him as an example where I think some of his talent was underutilized because of a disconnect between his style and Brands' style. If he would have wrestled for Cael or in another program, he may have been more successful, but maybe not. If Brands would have took a different approach with him, maybe he would have reached his goals. Either Brands needs to only recruit McD, Ramos, Dennis, Metcalf, Gilman, etc. clones that embrace what Brands is teaching or Brands needs to modify his teaching more than he is now to get the most out of every wrestler.

But I am just a guy on the outside looking in. Could be completely wrong. Just my opinion.

 

[TarpHawk]

I'm going to stop expending energy to write my own posts and just say "I agree 100% with Ihawkd."

But I will add this:

1. Yeah, I love the Brands brothers too and I think they're great coaches.

2. Right now Cael and Ryan are better at something. They've gotten the studs, and enough of them have panned out to win.

3. Studs Win Championships.

4. Our recruits didn't "buy in"? The buck stops with TnT. If your kids don't buy in, it means you recruited the wrong kids or you mis-managed them--it's one or the other. Choose one.

5. As good as TnT are as coaches, they aren't so great that they can turn Kelly into IMar. Or Carton into Stieber. Or Paddock into Dierenger. Their biggest flaw may be that they think they can.

6. Barring a magical Moisey-like run to the finals by Stoll, we don't have the points to win NCAAs in 2016. It's wishful thinking to calculate magical runs into our point scenarios. We need to amass enough points in a 10-man lineup to win NCAAs every year without resorting to a cosmological constant to fill in the gap. We're not. We haven't.

7. We need to take an honest look at ourselves in the mirror and decide who we want to be and how we're going to get there.

 

[HawkTitan]

Originally posted by TarpHawk:
I'm going to stop expending energy to write my own posts and just say "I agree 100% with Ihawkd."

But I will add this:

1. Yeah, I love the Brands brothers too and I think they're great coaches.

2. Right now Cael and Ryan are better at something. They've gotten the studs, and enough of them have panned out to win.

3. Studs Win Championships.

4. Our recruits didn't "buy in"? The buck stops with TnT. If your kids don't buy in, it means you recruited the wrong kids or you mis-managed them--it's one or the other. Choose one.

5. As good as TnT are as coaches, they aren't so great that they can turn Kelly into IMar. Or Carton into Stieber. Or Paddock into Dierenger. Their biggest flaw may be that they think they can.

6. Barring a magical Moisey-like run to the finals by Stoll, we don't have the points to win NCAAs in 2016. It's wishful thinking to calculate magical runs into our point scenarios. We need to amass enough points in a 10-man lineup to win NCAAs every year without resorting to a cosmological constant to fill in the gap. We're not. We haven't.

7. We need to take an honest look at ourselves in the mirror and decide who we want to be and how we're going to get there.

+1000

 

[mangypolecat]

Originally posted by HawkTitan:

Originally posted by TarpHawk:
I'm going to stop expending energy to write my own posts and just say "I agree 100% with Ihawkd."

But I will add this:

1. Yeah, I love the Brands brothers too and I think they're great coaches.

2. Right now Cael and Ryan are better at something. They've gotten the studs, and enough of them have panned out to win.

3. Studs Win Championships.

4. Our recruits didn't "buy in"? The buck stops with TnT. If your kids don't buy in, it means you recruited the wrong kids or you mis-managed them--it's one or the other. Choose one.

5. As good as TnT are as coaches, they aren't so great that they can turn Kelly into IMar. Or Carton into Stieber. Or Paddock into Dierenger. Their biggest flaw may be that they think they can.

6. Barring a magical Moisey-like run to the finals by Stoll, we don't have the points to win NCAAs in 2016. It's wishful thinking to calculate magical runs into our point scenarios. We need to amass enough points in a 10-man lineup to win NCAAs every year without resorting to a cosmological constant to fill in the gap. We're not. We haven't.

7. We need to take an honest look at ourselves in the mirror and decide who we want to be and how we're going to get there.

+1000

Yep. I agree with this Tarp fella 'bout all the time, especially on point #4.

 

[Gusaford]

I agree with the analyses of Ihawk and Tarp and others, too. But Marinelli wont be on campus for another 16 months and presumably will then redshirt for a year, Mejia and Renteria are 3 years away from when they realistically will hit the line-up, and even if we are fortunate enough to land Hall or Spencer L or one of the other can't miss talents, they are all a couple of years out (assuming Hall doesn't wrestle as a true freshman).

So, I'm hoping Grothus bulks up to 157 and goes out on a high note, I'm hoping that TnT develop Carton like they developed Dennis and Marion, and I'm hoping that Stoll takes ballet lessons and learns to move his feet and attack legs and spends the summer wrestling freestyle and not that Greco crap.

 

[whejoe]

As long as Gilman, Clark, Sorenson, and Brooks win it all, and Burak, Meyers, and Grothus finish 3rd or higher we'll be fine........✨

 

[pumpdog20]

The one thing that I see with Brands, is that after a loss, said wrestler seems to change. I hear Tom say something like, "we need to be smarter", and it either then gets taught to be cautious or the wrestler translates that to needing to be cautious.

Case in point, Brooks. He's hell fire to start the year, loses to Oky State, Tom says he needs to be smarter, and Brooks goes in a shell. The wrestlers need to feel like they can go out there wrestler hard, throw caution to the wind, and use that good ol' fashion Iowa style of breaking guys, win or lose. I personally feel that everyone in that room (at least the starters) are capable of opening up, but the thought of losing (or the consequences of) cause these guys to tighten up.

Personally, I think it's a fallacy that Tom is this big hardass anymore. I think he's mellowed out from his assistant days. Maybe he just needs to find better ways to communicate to the wrestlers, if indeed they are afraid of losing. Or maybe losses like Dennis' have totally altered the way Brands is coaching.

 

[minnhawkeye]

Agree with Tarp..We need to start getting some studs, no knock against any past Hawks but we need 2-3 guys that for sure can get some bonos points and have the other guys place from 3-8th.

My question is this.

Say we get Hall and with Marinelli cooming in same year start them both as freshman dam if Cal and Ryan can start true freshman why can't the Hawks if they are studs.

Be a awesome line up in 06-07, Gillman,Clark,Sorensen,Kremmer, Marinelli , Meyer, Brooks, Stoll or Bradley if he comes.
Have all next year to grove up someone at 141(Carlton,Turk) now that would be a hell of a nice line up......just saying.

 

[LaxHawk174]

I think far too many people are writing off the Hawks title hopes next year. We have just as good of a nucleus coming back as tOSU and PSU in my opinion. Its the other 4 weights I worry about, at 141, 157, 165, and Hwt. We need to score some points from those weights, is it realistic to hope for, say, 7.5-10 pts between the 4 of them? Other than that we have some studs coming back, who will only climb up higher on the ladder in my opinion and In my opinion are more than capable of scoring about 80-90 pts between them all.

125: Gilman, Top 3 capable of winning. He was 1-1 with Tomasello last year, and in my biased opinion i will take Gilman over Moisey in a rematch, for the same reason I would've picked Gilman over Brancale in a rematch, I think hes better, but Moisey came at him with everything but the kitchen sink right off the whistle and Gilman didn't look ready.

133: Clark, I think he will make the finals next year. MSU you say inconsistent, he only lost to Richards (who fell off towards the end of the year), Dijulius (avenged twice), Gulibon (avenged on the biggest stage), Dardanes twice (who is gone, second match at B1G's he was a few seconds of riding time away from winning in regulation), and Brewer (who i personally think we will see up at 141 next year, he was an absolute monster and struggled with weight this year). Not really too bad of losses, he had a bit of a slump in january, but other than that he was solid and consistent all year for the hawks. I think he will make the finals again and win it next year.

149: Sorensen, A stud as a freshman right out of the gate and the two finalists are gone. He was Mr consistent ever since he was inserted into the lineup and I think we can rely on him for a finals appearance next year. He got caught with the freshman jitters of the NCAA tournament early on in the 2nd rd i think, then stormed back to take 4th. I think he will be in the finals with Mr. Tsirtsis and that is a match that could go either way.

174: Although Meyer wasn't in the lineup, us true hawk fans know how good he really is. He has a win this season over the highest returning All american at this weight, and 2 of the R12 wrestler in Butler, and Brunson. I am pretty confident in saying that Alex will be at least top 5 at this weight class next season, and will score equal to or more points than Evans scored. He could honestly be contending for an NCAA title, but a big roadblock could be BoJo or Dieringer moving up, BoJo being the more likely, as Smith states that Alex will be staying at 165 and for tOSU Mark Martin was pulling a lot of weight according to his dad on their forum and might not make it back down to 174 next year. Either way, i will still predict top 5, with a chance to place 1-5.

184: A healthy Brooks is a dangerous dawg. He has wins over the 3,5,6,8 finishers in his career (3,5,6 this past season, 8 from 2013-14), and I think he is still better than those wrestlers. He lost to #1 and #4 in his tournament, bad draw for him, but what can ya do. He will come back and like Meyer i am confident in picking him for top 5. He has given Dean some tough matches, and if he can get to his offense against Dean could beat him, I'll say top 5.

197: Burak, he has been Mr consistent for us the last 2 years. Beating guys he should, and losing to guys he 'should'. But he's been awful close against the top tier, and two of them who have had his number will be gone in Schiller and the champ Gadson. None of the guys who are coming back are unbeatable, and Burak can beat any single one of them. Maybe his SR season will be the time to get over the hump. But like Meyer and Brooks, I can't see him lower than top 5 next year. Especially with the rumor of Cox moving up to Hwt/Rs'ing next season.

From my admittedly biased point of view, I would say that the nucleus of Three top 3 guys (who i predict will all be finalists) and Three top 5 guys coming back is more than enough to put us in title contention.

We have 4,2,4,R12,7 coming back + Meyer
tOSU has 1,3,5,2 coming back + H.Stieber (still a wildcard, has had 2 major elbow surgeries, will see how he recovers) & Micah Jordan (his best win on RS was over Danishek of Indiana I believe, who Kelly beat.)
PSU has 8,5,R12,3 coming back + Nico, Zain, Nolf, Nickal, Nevills. I think Penn state has the most upside with guys being injected into the lineup, but i also feel they have the weakest core of returnings amongst the title contenders.
OSU has 7, 4, R12, 1, 5, R12 coming back + Marstellar/Blees at 157 and Collica moving down to 149. They may have the strongest group of returners, but don't add much point scoring ability into their lineup IMO. So i think they are just a step behind other title contenders. Sure they have Dieringer, who is to them as Stieber was to tOSU this year, but I just don't see any other finalists in that lineup, which they will need to jump into the top 3.

This upcoming team race will be even more exciting, as there may be even MORE teams in the conversation next year for a title than this season. And I for one feel better about Iowas hopes next year than this past season, due to the one thing people were fearing all season long (That we didn't really have a sure thing or guys we could count on to make the finals) but the performance by our teams youngsters this past season and their NCAA performance have given me hope that i can count on them to get the job done. Sure they may have fell a bit short, but I am now 100% certain that Gilman, Clark, and Sorensen can make the finals next year and not really surprise anybody by doing so which is what we needed to continue to be in the title conversation.

 

[MNkids2IA]

My understanding is Stoll is working out FS this summer. IF his dream is to continue to medal in GR at an international level, as a Hawkeye fan that would be a badge of honor we should all be proud of. I do agree experience in both styles can only make him better. I give the Brands brothers a lot of credit for being open to this kid's dream and it helps recruiting in the long run.

This post was edited on 4/16 10:09 PM by MNkids2IA

This post was edited on 4/17 6:44 AM by MNkids2IA

 

[Teamten]

You guys think WAY too much.? I have no question marks.

 

[mike tognetti]

MSU here is OSU lineup next year:





125 Klimara AA
133 Magaldo= dropping down from 141, if he can do it and wrestle hard will AA (big 133 pounder hammer)





141 Heil AA
149 Collica AA





157 Marsteller AA
165 Dieringer NC





174 Crutchmer AA
184 Boyd= round of 12 or better





197 Weigel, Bean, Schafer= have no idea how this will end up
Hvy Marsden AA







Whole lot of points, have to be in the running! 7 AA and one NC. 133 will be the weight that will bring us a Team Title or finishing second or third.


This post was edited on 4/17 6:42 AM by mike tognetti


This post was edited on 4/17 6:49 AM by mike tognetti

This post was edited on 4/17 6:51 AM by mike tognetti

 

[pablow]

Originally posted by pumpdog20:
The one thing that I see with Brands, is that after a loss, said wrestler seems to change. I hear Tom say something like, "we need to be smarter", and it either then gets taught to be cautious or the wrestler translates that to needing to be cautious.

Case in point, Brooks. He's hell fire to start the year, loses to Oky State, Tom says he needs to be smarter, and Brooks goes in a shell. The wrestlers need to feel like they can go out there wrestler hard, throw caution to the wind, and use that good ol' fashion Iowa style of breaking guys, win or lose. I personally feel that everyone in that room (at least the starters) are capable of opening up, but the thought of losing (or the consequences of) cause these guys to tighten up.

Personally, I think it's a fallacy that Tom is this big hardass anymore. I think he's mellowed out from his assistant days. Maybe he just needs to find better ways to communicate to the wrestlers, if indeed they are afraid of losing. Or maybe losses like Dennis' have totally altered the way Brands is coaching.

+1. Couldn't agree more.

"If you're
not making mistakes, then you're not doing anything. I'm positive that a doer
makes mistakes."


― John Wooden

 

[Gusaford]

Originally posted by MNkids2IA:
My understanding is Stoll is working out FS this summer. IF his dream is to continue to medal in GR at an international level, as a Hawkeye fan that would be a badge of honor we should all be proud of. I do agree experience in both styles can only make him better. I give the Brands brothers a lot of credit for being open to this kid's dream and it helps recruiting in the long run.

This post was edited on 4/16 10:09 PM by MNkids2IA


This post was edited on 4/17 6:44 AM by MNkids2IA

I shouldn't have denigrated Greco and I certainly appreciate Stoll's many accomplishments in that style. I was pumped when Stoll got Bronze at Junior Worlds and I was equally pumped when he took out Coon twice in Greco with big throws. I just want Stoll to wrestle freestyle over the summer so he is as prepared as he can be for next season. Even if he takes some lumps in freestyle, it will help him in the long haul.

 

[DesMoinesHawki]

Originally posted by TarpHawk:
I'm going to stop expending energy to write my own posts and just say "I agree 100% with Ihawkd."

But I will add this:

1. Yeah, I love the Brands brothers too and I think they're great coaches.

2. Right now Cael and Ryan are better at something. They've gotten the studs, and enough of them have panned out to win.

3. Studs Win Championships.

4. Our recruits didn't "buy in"? The buck stops with TnT. If your kids don't buy in, it means you recruited the wrong kids or you mis-managed them--it's one or the other. Choose one.

5. As good as TnT are as coaches, they aren't so great that they can turn Kelly into IMar. Or Carton into Stieber. Or Paddock into Dierenger. Their biggest flaw may be that they think they can.

6. Barring a magical Moisey-like run to the finals by Stoll, we don't have the points to win NCAAs in 2016. It's wishful thinking to calculate magical runs into our point scenarios. We need to amass enough points in a 10-man lineup to win NCAAs every year without resorting to a cosmological constant to fill in the gap. We're not. We haven't.

7. We need to take an honest look at ourselves in the mirror and decide who we want to be and how we're going to get there.

Well said. Some are saying they trust Brands to bring in recruits that fit the Iowa style ... Someone on here said he trusts TnT to bring in the right guys. I think we have seen a few too many cases of bringing in guys who fall short.

PSU and OSU are not going away anytime soon so TnT need to figure out how to compete at that level. I like the looks of the kids we have coming in. Very excited about our future recruits.

We got spoiled with Iowa wrestling in the 80s and 90s ... sort of like Nebraska football. Then others caught up. I hope to see us back on top again some day but PSU and PSU really are forces... And it will be interesting to see how Arizona State develops in the next few years with all of the studs it has coming onboard.

 

[Ihawkd9times]

Originally posted by pablow:

Originally posted by pumpdog20:
The one thing that I see with Brands, is that after a loss, said wrestler seems to change. I hear Tom say something like, "we need to be smarter", and it either then gets taught to be cautious or the wrestler translates that to needing to be cautious.

Case in point, Brooks. He's hell fire to start the year, loses to Oky State, Tom says he needs to be smarter, and Brooks goes in a shell. The wrestlers need to feel like they can go out there wrestler hard, throw caution to the wind, and use that good ol' fashion Iowa style of breaking guys, win or lose. I personally feel that everyone in that room (at least the starters) are capable of opening up, but the thought of losing (or the consequences of) cause these guys to tighten up.

Personally, I think it's a fallacy that Tom is this big hardass anymore. I think he's mellowed out from his assistant days. Maybe he just needs to find better ways to communicate to the wrestlers, if indeed they are afraid of losing. Or maybe losses like Dennis' have totally altered the way Brands is coaching.

+1. Couldn't agree more.

"If you're
not making mistakes, then you're not doing anything. I'm positive that a doer
makes mistakes."


¯ John Wooden

I somewhat agree. From what I hear and its a pretty darn good source is that Tom isnt so much an issue. Its his twin.

.

 

[wasdt21]

sorry lax you are on the wrong thread, no optimisim allowed

 

[MSU158]

"Prepare for the worst. Train for the best."


It doesn't translate to being a fan as much as most things in life. My point in this thread wasn't to be negative. It was to point out this may be the biggest test that Brands has had as Iowa's Head Coach. If he can put this team on top, I think he can cement himself as one of the best coaches of all time and remove the garbage "2 schools recruiting classes" stigma that hater's use to diminish his Team Championship run.

This is the year where Brands can really put any naysayers to rest.

 

[MSU158]

tognetti,


What have I missed regarding Marstellar? Everything I have read and multiple interviews I have watched imply, and almost flat out SAY, that 157 isn't where Marstellar wants to be. Is he prepping now to get his body ready? Last thing I watched on FLO it pretty much ruled out 157........

 

[YoungGun07]

Originally posted by MSU158:
tognetti,


What have I missed regarding Marstellar? Everything I have read and multiple interviews I have watched imply, and almost flat out SAY, that 157 isn't where Marstellar wants to be. Is he prepping now to get his body ready? Last thing I watched on FLO it pretty much ruled out 157........

We need a 165.... let the Marstellar to Iowa rumors begin