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“‘VICIOUS’ AND ‘BRUTAL'” — LIFE INSIDE A FREEZING FEDERAL PRISON WITH NO HEAT

:rolleyes: you are sooooo intellectually lazy
As someone who typically agrees with many of your posts, I’m surprised to see your stance here.

Do you not believe in liberty? The 8th Amendment? Or the right of self defense? Or the right to self preservation?

The way I see it, the loss of liberty is the punishment. That’s it.

When the state takes away ones ability to defend and provide for themselves, the state assumes that obligation. Either let someone take care of themselves or take on that responsibility for them.
 
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Lesson here, don't go to prison.

I think I've read about 3-4 times in this thread that some of the people in this one haven't even been convicted yet. If that's true, you're take doesn't even make sense. But maybe it isn't true... I don't know. First I've heard of this situation.
 
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The truth of the matter is that our prisons are not only inhumane and unjust, but they do the exact opposite of what we claim they're supposed to do. They actually make inmates more likely to commit more violent crime rather than changing them to be better citizens. We need a fundamental re-evaluation of what prison should do. If the goal is to re-program people's brains into being healthier citizens then we're doing everything in our power to make certain that is not achieved.

If instead our goal is to simply create a population of people who will be constantly in jail to feed our ever growing private prison industry, well then we're doing all the right things.
 
Conservative people's inability to empathize is really disturbing.

Just in general, I think they have difficulty with things they haven't personally experienced or difficulty accepting something counter to something they have personally experienced.

It's welfare for deadbeats, until a crippling medical bill arrives at the same time the economy is slowing down and their job is eliminated. Then it's something that they have paid for forever and is much deserved.

Who cares about inmates, they haven't and aren't planning to go to prison.

Shot and killed by the cops? Should have listened to their exact instructions. They aren't going to have that issue.

A history of racial disadvantage for blacks? Ha, they have a black friend who is doing just fine and says so.

I'm not sure liberals are "good" at thinking/processing in an alternative way, just seemingly less bad.
 
Just in general, I think they have difficulty with things they haven't personally experienced or difficulty accepting something counter to something they have personally experienced.

It's welfare for deadbeats, until a crippling medical bill arrives at the same time the economy is slowing down and their job is eliminated. Then it's something that they have paid for forever and is much deserved.

Who cares about inmates, they haven't and aren't planning to go to prison.

Shot and killed by the cops? Should have listened to their exact instructions. They aren't going to have that issue.

A history of racial disadvantage for blacks? Ha, they have a black friend who is doing just fine and says so.

I'm not sure liberals are "good" at thinking/processing in an alternative way, just seemingly less bad.

You made some good points in my opinion, but managed to weave in some incredible silliness as well!
 
I think I've read about 3-4 times in this thread that some of the people in this one haven't even been convicted yet. If that's true, you're take doesn't even make sense. But maybe it isn't true... I don't know. First I've heard of this situation.


Federal crimes are serious shit. The feds don't waste time and money on horsing around. They generally have you cold, if they are spending the resources.
 
The truth of the matter is that our prisons are not only inhumane and unjust, but they do the exact opposite of what we claim they're supposed to do. They actually make inmates more likely to commit more violent crime rather than changing them to be better citizens. We need a fundamental re-evaluation of what prison should do. If the goal is to re-program people's brains into being healthier citizens then we're doing everything in our power to make certain that is not achieved.

If instead our goal is to simply create a population of people who will be constantly in jail to feed our ever growing private prison industry, well then we're doing all the right things.
So true. Two points:

1. Liberty is supposed to be our most coveted right. It is mine. Yet we nonchalantly disregard taking away others’. We throw out numbers, 15 year sentence, without really thinking how long that is and what that means. That’s putting someone in a cage for 15 years. Now, some people need that. There are some violent dudes out there and they will never behave. But they’re the small portion. The way I see it, taking away ones liberty is as severe as it gets.

2. Many of those on the right decry the loss of the 2 family household yet we advocate for a system that does exactly that. We remove fathers from homes for years and years then we act surprised when the kids grow up and follow the same cycle. It’s insanity to me. We should be advocating for true rehabilitation and restitution programs. Our current penal system does neither.
 
The truth of the matter is that our prisons are not only inhumane and unjust, but they do the exact opposite of what we claim they're supposed to do. They actually make inmates more likely to commit more violent crime rather than changing them to be better citizens. We need a fundamental re-evaluation of what prison should do. If the goal is to re-program people's brains into being healthier citizens then we're doing everything in our power to make certain that is not achieved.

If instead our goal is to simply create a population of people who will be constantly in jail to feed our ever growing private prison industry, well then we're doing all the right things.

That's really not the primary goal of prison. Prison sentences are imposed to either wharehouse people that are too dangerous to live in a civilized society or to deter others from committing crime. The First Step Act is designed in part to prioritize rehabilatation. Drug offenders in particular, are good candidates for rehabilatation. Extremely violent offenders and liars/theives are often lost causes.
 
You made some good points in my opinion, but managed to weave in some incredible silliness as well!

I'm not sure there's any good points in there. It's a generalized blanket statement on a group of people that vary wildly but identify as "conservative". The examples were intended to be sort of "silly" in attempt to highlight my theory.

I believe the core of the idea would likely be agreed upon by self identifying conservatives if painted in a less negative manner. Like, conservatives are independent, self reliant people.
 
That's really not the primary goal of prison. Prison sentences are imposed to either wharehouse people that are too dangerous to live in a civilized society or to deter others from committing crime. The First Step Act is designed in part to prioritize rehabilatation. Drug offenders in particular, are good candidates for rehabilatation. Extremely violent offenders and liars/theives are often lost causes.
Then our point of prison is a waste of time.

I agree that some people are lost causes and too dangerous to allow into the public such as murderers and many rapists and so our only option is to simply house them away.

But that's not the case with most people, especially young people who we routinely throw away for years at a time and in the process reprogram their brains to exit the system without hope and far more likely to commit violent crime after being thrown away for a non-violent one to begin with.

We know prison isn't a deterrent, so it needs to stop being our primary motivation for prison. If rehabilitation isn't our primary goal, then we're simply destroying society and wasting our money.
 
As a country we seem so set in our ways and reluctant to learn from what has worked for other countries.

I've become increasingly frustrated with this attitudes of ""if the fix isn't perfect, then it isn't worth doing" and "we can't fix it / fixing is impossible" that have gripped the country in so many ways. When did we become a nation of quitters who lack any faith whatsoever in the ability to use ingenuity?
 
Then our point of prison is a waste of time.

I agree that some people are lost causes and too dangerous to allow into the public such as murderers and many rapists and so our only option is to simply house them away.

But that's not the case with most people, especially young people who we routinely throw away for years at a time and in the process reprogram their brains to exit the system without hope and far more likely to commit violent crime after being thrown away for a non-violent one to begin with.

We know prison isn't a deterrent, so it needs to stop being our primary motivation for prison. If rehabilitation isn't our primary goal, then we're simply destroying society and wasting our money.

Our prison systems, particulary the federal system, is badly need of reform.

As for deterence, the threat of a prison sentence does deter white collar crime such as, for example, tax evasion. It probably doesn't deter more violent offenses or drug offenses.
 
Our prison systems, particulary the federal system, is badly need of reform.

As for deterence, the threat of a prison sentence does deter white collar crime such as, for example, tax evasion. It probably doesn't deter more violent offenses or drug offenses.
You're right. It likely does deter people who are used to their luxurious lifestyles to some extent, although as we're seeing with so many of Donald Trump's friends, I'm not certain it really does. But even then, the sentences for their crimes are not nearly as harsh as the types of sentencing for more petty crimes that would wind someone up in this jail. Donald Trump's friends would never be suffering these conditions in their place of confinement.
 
The truth of the matter is that our prisons are not only inhumane and unjust, but they do the exact opposite of what we claim they're supposed to do. They actually make inmates more likely to commit more violent crime rather than changing them to be better citizens. We need a fundamental re-evaluation of what prison should do. If the goal is to re-program people's brains into being healthier citizens then we're doing everything in our power to make certain that is not achieved.

If instead our goal is to simply create a population of people who will be constantly in jail to feed our ever growing private prison industry, well then we're doing all the right things.
While the spirit of your post is great, you lost me at, "changing them to be better citizens..."
Through what method you think this can be done, electro shock therapy? The majority are there bc they're awful human beings and a danger to the rest of society.
I'm not advocating poor conditions like these whatsoever, but many in fed prison aren't capable or willing to be good citizens.
 
While the spirit of your post is great, you lost me at, "changing them to be better citizens..."
Through what method you think this can be done, electro shock therapy? The majority are there bc they're awful human beings and a danger to the rest of society.
I'm not advocating poor conditions like these whatsoever, but many in fed prison aren't capable or willing to be good citizens.
Your understanding of why people become criminals is unfortunately sorely lacking any understanding of modern brain science and societal causes of crime. There are ways, especially in younger criminals, to not only correct them, but help to turn them into good citizens as well. Electro-shock therapy would be a terrible option. Practicing good processes which are shown to decrease the amygdala and increase the size of the anterior cingulate cortex thereby reducing violent tendencies and increasing empathy and compassion for others is a great start for those with violent tendencies, investing in high quality education, job skills, and job placement would be another that doesn't even begin to get into the societal issues that lead to most crime.
 
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Your understanding of why people become criminals is unfortunately sorely lacking any understanding of modern brain science and societal causes of crime. There are ways, especially in younger criminals, to not only correct them, but help to turn them into good citizens as well. Electro-shock therapy would be a terrible option. Practicing good processes which are shown to decrease the amygdala and increase the size of the anterior cingulate cortex thereby reducing violent tendencies and increasing empathy and compassion for others is a great start for those with violent tendencies, investing in high quality education, job skills, and job placement would be another that doesn't even begin to get into the societal issues that lead to most crime.
That's all well and good but we're discussing those already in prison and convicted of specific violent crimes. I do think rehabilitation and education of non violent offenders should be a high priority but hell, we can't even educate them before they become criminals. As for Murderers, rapists, child abusers etc... lock them up, feed them basic meals, give them basic human essentitals, but otherwise throw away the key.
 
Prison should be a place that is slightly worse than being homeless.

I never understood why more homeless people dont attempt to rob banks. If they get caught, they now get food on a regular basis and have the ability to take advantage of some form of structure to better their lives in the prison system. If they get away with it they’d have some money to live it up for a while.

I bet you use that same argument to justify slavery.
 
You’re an overly sensitive snowflake with nothing but feelings of revenge. There is zero thought behind your lightweight posts.
Your opinions are vapid. I have no revenge towards felons. What i have is a lack of sympathy. Im not gonna sweat over a few felons being in the cold for a few days. You are. So, who exactly is the snowflake?
 
I bet you use that same argument to justify slavery.
I’ve never lived in a time when slavery was condoned so never had to make that argument ? If slavery was legal I would certainly 100% be against it.
 
All the bitching on here and no on even knows what the temps were. Seems like an odd omission from a story about no heat.
I have no idea what the authors agenda is but is a glaring omission.
 
All the bitching on here and no on even knows what the temps were. Seems like an odd omission from a story about no heat.
I have no idea what the authors agenda is but is a glaring omission.

I heard on NPR this AM - in the low 50 degrees.
 
Our prison systems, particulary the federal system, is badly need of reform.

As for deterence, the threat of a prison sentence does deter white collar crime such as, for example, tax evasion. It probably doesn't deter more violent offenses or drug offenses.
I don't believe it deters white collar crime at all. Maybe at my or your level it does, but we probably aren't the ones who would commit it in the 1st place. I do agree there are many lost causes who are in for violent crimes.
 
I heard on NPR this AM - in the low 50 degrees.
Sorry, I did find in the article "one cell in the 50's" and "many other places in the building were in the high 60's" and there was a work order to get it taken care of....CPAPs??? let's all back away from the edge.
My house stayed at 60-64 (at best) when I first started out teaching because I couldn't afford the fuel oil. So we are concerned about high 60's??? My classroom is set at 68, that is where it should be in the winter.
This is far from inhumane conditions. If this is inhumane they need AC too, making my school cruel and unusual punishment.
 
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