I always thought his upside was really high, I was concerned about the floor. But now I'm thinking the floor will be pretty high as well.
#1000pages FSU Third Natty (Women’s Soccer 2021 & 2023, and Cheerleading 2023 achieved)
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I always thought his upside was really high, I was concerned about the floor. But now I'm thinking the floor will be pretty high as well.
He wasn't much on my radar other than knowing he did well at a second tier school. I had a problem with the admin firing Taggart so quickly, but even more of a problem that they had no solid plan in place when they fired Willie. Mr. *th choice has hit the ground running and I am optimistic, but we will see if the enthusiasm translates to a better program.
55 pages left to a Natty!
It’s almost like you didn’t watch the Miami game or ULM or BSU.
What on earth do you do with a 44-page tread you abandoned w/in the first 5 pages?
Request cliff notes?
Request cliff notes?
Pretty much all of them klunkers.
Yep. I had no problem with the decision because there were signs of more serious organizational issues. I was a WT defender after his first year but it I did the 180 after the ULM game.
We had a soft schedule, a roster full of blue chippers, and still barely made a bowl. The Miami game made it a must because the team had made no progress since his first horrible Va Tech debut. I think people "in the know" had seen that he program was not organized, he was in over his head, and basically had checked out. The program was on the cusp of disaster had he stayed another year. And no way we beat BC and make a bowl.
My main concern with firing Willie when we did was the consequences of trying to make a hire (and the associated hires and organizational changes that would accompany a coaching change) under a lame duck president and an interim not-really-athletic director.
I'd lost confidence in Willie being the guy, but to me, it made sense to give WT one more year, get your new president and AD in place, finish bringing the boosters under the AD, knock another year off the buyout, improve the APR some more, and then you're making a coaching change from a position of strength rather than chaos. I'm old...in the scheme of things a single season doesn't seem like a lot, if it puts you in a better position for the next 5-10 seasons.
So far, with the exception of the additional buyout money it will cost, I'm not really still holding that concern. Despite the chaos, FSU got one of the top 3-4 coaches on the market, they didn't end up with a Eli Drinkwater or Sam Pittman. I had some strong fears that the job would be so toxic, and the budget so thin, that we'd end up with a truly embarrassing search that ended with a hire that was doomed from the start. I had visions of Tennessee hiring Derek Dooley, a hire that was DOA from the start.
So far, Norvell held WT's recruiting class together decently, it isn't great, but it didn't fall into the 50s or anything. The staff seems to be at least as competent, and if anything the off field staff has increased, so there doesn't appear to be obvious signs of the new coach handcuffed by a shoestring budget. Norvell seems custom designed in a lab to reengage the boosters in a way WT just wasn't good at, which should ease the transition a little bit.
My only concern (other than just the buyout cash that could have been reduced) was that maybe another year widens the net of available hires versus this offseason. I'm not really bothered by the fact we got Norvell vs Campbell or Fleck, to me they're all roughly in the same bucket. But it was a weird year of there not being very many "up an comers" in the coaching ranks with southern connections. It's not that I'm disappointed in how we did in this pool, but maybe the pool would have been deeper next off-season, with guys like Satterfield, Geoff Collins, or others in play.
But there also might not have been...no guarantees whatsoever. So, Norvell might work or he might be a failure, but based on so far, I don't really second guess the decision to replace WT or when they did. He will either rise or fall on his own merits, and luck, or whatever, but I don't think FSU made a change that is destined to fail.
I'd lost confidence in Willie being the guy, but to me, it made sense to give WT one more year, get your new president and AD in place, finish bringing the boosters under the AD, knock another year off the buyout, improve the APR some more, and then you're making a coaching change from a position of strength rather than chaos. I'm old...in the scheme of things a single season doesn't seem like a lot, if it puts you in a better position for the next 5-10 seasons.
So far, with the exception of the additional buyout money it will cost, I'm not really still holding that concern. Despite the chaos, FSU got one of the top 3-4 coaches on the market, they didn't end up with a Eli Drinkwater or Sam Pittman. I had some strong fears that the job would be so toxic, and the budget so thin, that we'd end up with a truly embarrassing search that ended with a hire that was doomed from the start. I had visions of Tennessee hiring Derek Dooley, a hire that was DOA from the start.
So far, Norvell held WT's recruiting class together decently, it isn't great, but it didn't fall into the 50s or anything. The staff seems to be at least as competent, and if anything the off field staff has increased, so there doesn't appear to be obvious signs of the new coach handcuffed by a shoestring budget. Norvell seems custom designed in a lab to reengage the boosters in a way WT just wasn't good at, which should ease the transition a little bit.
My only concern (other than just the buyout cash that could have been reduced) was that maybe another year widens the net of available hires versus this offseason. I'm not really bothered by the fact we got Norvell vs Campbell or Fleck, to me they're all roughly in the same bucket. But it was a weird year of there not being very many "up an comers" in the coaching ranks with southern connections. It's not that I'm disappointed in how we did in this pool, but maybe the pool would have been deeper next off-season, with guys like Satterfield, Geoff Collins, or others in play.
But there also might not have been...no guarantees whatsoever. So, Norvell might work or he might be a failure, but based on so far, I don't really second guess the decision to replace WT or when they did. He will either rise or fall on his own merits, and luck, or whatever, but I don't think FSU made a change that is destined to fail.
Willie was costing the program money evidenced most obviously by the attendance. It would have only gotten worse in 2020. There was a chance to save the program.
The team was still disfunctional behind the scenes, though Willie did do some things to get the kids back in class. Stuff happens at all schools, but Willie was still selective in how he was holding some kids accountable for off the field stuff. Odell alluded to this when he spoke about "culture". Evidence is behavior of the punter and kicker.
I like to leave the tailgating early so I can watch the kids do drills and warm up. FSU's warmup routine was less organized than most high school teams. Many of the kids weren't focused and were just goofing around.
The team was still disfunctional behind the scenes, though Willie did do some things to get the kids back in class. Stuff happens at all schools, but Willie was still selective in how he was holding some kids accountable for off the field stuff. Odell alluded to this when he spoke about "culture". Evidence is behavior of the punter and kicker.
I like to leave the tailgating early so I can watch the kids do drills and warm up. FSU's warmup routine was less organized than most high school teams. Many of the kids weren't focused and were just goofing around.
Yep, but my fear was that the firing happening when it did would result in a D grade hire, which wouldn't re-engage the boosters anyway, and now you're in the same boat for incoming cash, but have added the buyout, and extended the situation 2-3 more years while that guy runs his course. The "retaining Willie is costing you money" only makes sense if you can replace Willie with someone who can bring in more money. I don't think that happens if you're forced to make a bad hire.
However, that concern ended up unfounded. They got a solid B hire, and from what I can tell, he's going to be an A when engaging the boosters. He has the right personality, he's got the attention to detail, he's got the enthusiasm, and among all the things he says, there are plenty of things that 60 year old white folks eat up.
Out of many of Willie's shortcomings, one of the most low key very damaging aspects is that he's just not a charismatic guy in those settings. I went to his first Atlanta booster stop after he was hired. Huge crowd, packed out and buzzing with excitement. He was about an hour and a half late to the microphone. That might not have been his fault, but there was no explanation given whatsoever for us all standing around (and it was standing room only) all that time. And then when he finally gets there to speak...dud. I felt like he answered pretty honestly, but there just wasn't any charisma there. Especially after that wait, you wanted to leave that place ready to run through a wall for the coach, and that just isn't him.
I'm not saying we all walked out deflated or anything, we all still had the new coach high, but it was clear that wasn't going to be a strength. But when times are tough, when you want everyone lined up behind you, when you're asking for money...it helps if you've really connected to people and they desperately want you to succeed.
Allegedly Woodson from Auburn is our #1 target to replace Rushing. Hopefully we drop the right amount of bags as he would be great!
I actually agree with all of this but I want to see how it translates to wins and losses. If we aren’t markedly better I’m not sure what we gained...
So FSU got his top pick after all! Stole Auburn's DB coach and recruiting coordinator right out from underneath them!
We're not going to be markedly better next year. We're just not. We've had three .500 seasons in a row under two head coaches, three OL coaches, three OC's...unless you think that nobody associated with this program in the past three years knows how to coach AT ALL, you have to just accept the fact that this team sucks and needs a significant upgrade.
It's going to take some time. If you've got your heard set on 9-10 wins this year, just don't. There are going to be plenty of losses. The offensive line improvement, barring a couple huge transfers, is going to be marginal at best, and the running back is going to be a huge downgrade. The starting quarterback is either going to be the same one who has underwhelmed for three years, OR a true freshman.
The defense should be stout, but we haven't upgraded significantly all over the field, and downgraded significantly at the running back.
This will be a 5 to 8 win team this year depending on how much this staff can get out of kids that he didn't recruit and have failed under two previous coaches, and luck. It's a long climb back. I know everyone wants to believe this team lost 6-7 games a year because they swag surfed or listened to music in practice, etc, but that's just incredibly unrealistic.
However, what we CAN hope to see is a team that is better in week 9 than week one, that reduces self-inflicted errors as the season goes on, that makes proper on-the-field coaching decisions and time out usage, etc. We can hope to see an uptick in recruiting over the season. Better special teams maybe. We have to be encouraged and take satisfaction in seeing things moving in the right direction, which just didn't appear to be happening under WT.
And the schedule is out...earliest bye in the ACC, and 9 straight games to close out the season. 3 of the first 4 on the road. Thursday night game at Syracuse on 5 days rest.
Set your expectation meter to "Bowl eligible" and try to identify and appreciate the small but meaningful improvements in the program this year.
Set your expectation meter to "Bowl eligible" and try to identify and appreciate the small but meaningful improvements in the program this year.
I am not really concerned with the number of wins and losses at least the first year. What I will be looking for is consistent improvement from week to week and season to season.
Never saw any improvement with WT, same crap every week. From the debacle against VT to his last game it was mostly the same over and over.
Never saw any improvement with WT, same crap every week. From the debacle against VT to his last game it was mostly the same over and over.
While I'm purposefully not a season ticket holder anymore (work and personal travel interfere too much so half my tickets were being wasted), I did catch all of the Willie highlights and lowlights in person. I went to both spring games (the highlights thanks to MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice and the Ninja Turtles) and to the Virginia Tech and Samford games the first year and the Miami game last year. Plus I've now been to every ODell HCed home game.
Just another condemnation of the Taggart era. With each passing day, the mistake made by the administration with this hire becomes more evident.
Just another example of WT grossly mis-evaluating the program. From the outside Jimbo looked like a tyrant, with screaming, etc. Surface level, it was easy to think that all this talent was finally smothering under Jimbo's relentless pressure and discipline and yelling.
In reality, behind the scenes it was quite the opposite, it was a total lack of discipline and accountability. Not going to class, not going to workouts, off season incidents, etc. Jimbo was all bark and no bite the last few years. I don't have a problem with the program needing a fresh attitude and positivity after Jimbo's negativity, but it had to come with the discipline and accountability that had lapsed under Jimbo.
To be fair to WT, the academics improved some, there weren't a lot of off-field issues, but he didn't bring that discipline and accountability to practice and the locker room.
The overarching weakness of WT was just badly miscalculating and poorly evaluating (or, too slowly evaluating) almost every aspect of the program, the recruiting, the staff, everything.
Prime time, yes.
But it's on ACCN.
I’ll be there. Having a few drinks downtown before the game. Basketball games are becoming more fun than football games these days.
Kinda hate to pile on after a guy is fired and long gone, but what is everyone talking about? Was there a lax or unprofessional atmosphere? Favoritism? No accountability? Too much accountability?
What was going on?
What was going on?
Agree on hating to pile on. But if I make a comment about my feelings.
You make a comment about what you saw.
Tribe writes 3 paragraphs about his experience
, is it really piling on or is it completely independent people just speaking up about how bad it was. I do think the way things are stated could be more spin for the positive future and ignore the past, but I don't expect an 18 football player to sound like a professional consultant. It really would be interesting for a completely unbiased view of what was going on, but I don't expect those of us on the outside will ever know. Perhaps the admin knew more than they let on and that was why they pulled the trigger when/how they did; it slowly begins to seem more and more justified as a more than W-L decision.
yeah yeah, someone cue the "21 games!" guy.
