Gunther, Marinelli or Young after the Midlands. Gunther had it in his grasp but got beat up early in this tourney. Marinelli has looked really good outside of a defeat to a two National Champ. Young, I like him a lot. Marinelli without a doubt. Go Hawks!!!
165, where do the Hawks go there this year?
- Thread starter Mike_a_TetonValley
- Start date
Young or Marinelli... I thinking let Young take a go
Let Young go, then redshirt him next year while he lifts to become a 174
I agree. But this is a year the Hawks have a chance at the title. Gunther will not go far at the NCCAs. Lets see what happens in the tourney at the end. Tough call for coach Brands. Still like Marinelli. Go Hawks!!!
I don't know how you DON'T pull Marinelli's shirt. He's clearly the best guy available, and if you have any faith in Brooks, Meyer, Clark and Stoll, you have to take the chance of winning a title this year. It's at least a one-year wasteland next season. Redshirt him next year with what we are all hoping is "The Class" to restore our tradition.
If Clark can't come back from injury, or is severely hampered by the injury, redshirt both. We don't have a chance at the team title without him being able to compete at a high level.
I think he meant both Marinelli and Young
Clark looked pretty good sparring at Midlands before session 2. I think he will be ready this year.
Who is going to wrestle 174 next year then? Moody and Gunther likely on the small side and Bowman has gone up to 197. Young is not very likely to AA at 165 this year. If they really think that a few extra points can help win it then wrestle Marinelli this year and shirt him next year and wrestle Gunther at 165 then with Young at 174.
No, this is an impossible request. Hawk fans will not wait!
The choice is obvious. Redshirt Young this year and the Bull next year. Hawkeyes win it this year and take 9th next year before tearing off 3 titles in a row.
Nolf and Nickal would be seniors in that first year of 3 you got going for the Hawks, along with Nevills. The cast will include Mark Hall, Nick Suriano, Cenzo Joseph. Nick Lee should be pretty tough. Maybe Cortez figures something out? Should be good times and great team race either way
You don't seriously think there's a chance he DOESN'T wrestle at Big Tens do you? Cuz I've got this bridge...
Disagree. We won't win the title without Clark, but would still be in the hunt for a trophy. I'd like to send Gilman out with a trophy.
We're out of the mix for a trophy next year anyway, unless we wrestle Lee but it doesn't sound like that's an option.
I say we do what Cael did with Zain. We have 2 guys good enough to AA as true freshman in a year we have the firepower to be top 3. Put one of them in, get a trophy and let him redshirt next year with Lee. Then we make a real run for the title in 2019.
I'm not yet convinced Marinelli or Young can AA this year. Young looks top 20 and Marinelli top 12. But we have no perfect options, Marinelli is best at the weight, next year is a waste, and we have to put our best team on the mat this year.
So I agree with pulling Marinelli's shirt.
So I agree with pulling Marinelli's shirt.
I only see marinelli getting better as the season progresses. I can't say the same about Gunther.
Young had a great win, but he won't AA this year.
I didn't walk away from the IMar match thinking there's no way he can go with the top guys at 65. I saw a young kid who has the drive, physical strength, and gas tank to go with anyone, and he almost scored the first takedown on the returning 2x champ.
It's mental maturity he lacks. He kind of got sloppy as the match went on and the score widened. Maybe he panicked a bit?
He's our best option by far at 65.
Coaches always say that they'll put the best guys out there, so put him out there.
Young had a great win, but he won't AA this year.
I didn't walk away from the IMar match thinking there's no way he can go with the top guys at 65. I saw a young kid who has the drive, physical strength, and gas tank to go with anyone, and he almost scored the first takedown on the returning 2x champ.
It's mental maturity he lacks. He kind of got sloppy as the match went on and the score widened. Maybe he panicked a bit?
He's our best option by far at 65.
Coaches always say that they'll put the best guys out there, so put him out there.
Isn't the easiest plan would be to have Marinelli go this year and redshirt him next year? Either way these two are going to be great the next 4-5 years!
Selfishly for them I'd rather have them both shirt this year and try to have a BETTER chance to be 4x AA's.
Selfishly for them I'd rather have them both shirt this year and try to have a BETTER chance to be 4x AA's.
Basically the coaches need to decide between Alex and Young who will progress the most during the season, hard call but both have been doing well considering they are true freshman. Agree with the most of the sentiment on this and think they will have to see how today plays out as best to make sure they have the starter determined for Jan so whoever it is can qualify the weight for the big 10.
Apples and oranges. Zain was a title contender. Neither guy we have falls in that category and both would be reaches to be AAs at this point. It would be a total waste just to compete for a trophy. Gilman is concerned about winning his own title and if he doesn't do that, he will give no shits about a 4th place team trophy.
Maybe... An NCAA bracket can be bitch if things don't fall right. Marinelli is not an AA "lock" at this point. Red shirt the kids and set them up for the best chance of individual success in the future... It's only fair to them.
Agreed. If Iowa loses the title by less than 10 points, there will be a TON of second guessing. Given the recent performances in March, I doubt it will be that close.
There is no guarantee that Clark will come back healthy and make a run at Nationals. So, I hope the coaches don't pull any shirts because we might contend for a title. I want to see Young and the Bull both together in the lineup for 4 years.
I'm shocked so many people are only concerned with individual success. There should be far more concern with team success. This is what TOSU and PSU have gotten their guys to buy into. That's why they have true freshman stepping up each year and guys shifting weights to make the team better.
When guys are thinking about themselves over the team, that doesn't create the best atmosphere and buy in that we need to be successful. I think we are operating with the wrong mindset. Team cohesion and success boosts the morale, energy, and excitement of everyone.
When guys are thinking about themselves over the team, that doesn't create the best atmosphere and buy in that we need to be successful. I think we are operating with the wrong mindset. Team cohesion and success boosts the morale, energy, and excitement of everyone.
I get that but I don't think redshirting the first year is always best. If he is healthy, the best guy and wants to go, let him go. There might be another season where the kid is injured and could use the redshirt to recover and come back healthy the next year.
If guys worry about themselves, the team stuff takes care of itself. The team discussion is largely a fan thing. Iowa and every other program teaches kids to focus on being the best version of themselves and if they do that and perform, the team implications are taken care of. When you say "we" are operating with the wrong mindset, I have to think you're referring to the fans because you absolutely want kids focused on themselves in order to have team success.
I think it's far from a given as some of have insinuated. To me, he's a round of 12 guy. He's slightly undersized and not as strong as many of the guys at that weight. IMar rag dolled him. The kid from NDSU horsed him around some too. Granted, his consistent attacking still garners points and that's what happened with the NDSU kid, but once guys figure out how to defend him effectively, he'll struggle to score. At the NCAAs everyone is good so as was mentioned by Gobblin, a bad draw and he's 1-2 or 2-2.
Do this, look at the rankings and tell me where you realistically see him placing. To me, he's not that close to the top 4. So now you have to hope he can be 5-8 and can win multiple matches against some really good guys that will all be contending for AA status. I just don't see it but maybe I'm wrong. Give him a year to grow into 165 and he will be a beast for four years. That's what I'd like to see. Using him this year isn't worth the risk.
I'm admittedly a bit of a slumpy Susan by nature, so take what I'm about say however you want.
I don't think we can match other teams bonus points to win nationals. Other teams (specifically Penn state) wrestle a lot more wide open than we do (or are maybe just that much better) and we haven't done as well with that recently. This is purely an observational opinion and I did zero research to back it up.
Also, watching Marinelli against ndsu (I know the kid is no slouch) was very underwhelming and against imar he was totally overmatched. He clearly works his butt off and has a lot of potential, but until I see more I'm not totally sold. If I'm being totally honest I was more impressed with young, even though he completely blew his quarter final match. I wish we could see both of these guys wrestle a lot more top level guys, but just based purely on yesterday I'm in favor of giving young the nod this year.
Again, just the opinion of someone who never competed at a high level whatsoever but thinks he knows as much as people that did.
I don't think we can match other teams bonus points to win nationals. Other teams (specifically Penn state) wrestle a lot more wide open than we do (or are maybe just that much better) and we haven't done as well with that recently. This is purely an observational opinion and I did zero research to back it up.
Also, watching Marinelli against ndsu (I know the kid is no slouch) was very underwhelming and against imar he was totally overmatched. He clearly works his butt off and has a lot of potential, but until I see more I'm not totally sold. If I'm being totally honest I was more impressed with young, even though he completely blew his quarter final match. I wish we could see both of these guys wrestle a lot more top level guys, but just based purely on yesterday I'm in favor of giving young the nod this year.
Again, just the opinion of someone who never competed at a high level whatsoever but thinks he knows as much as people that did.
I think he could finish anywhere from 2nd to 7th. He is in the same league as Massa, Jordan, Lewis, Minotti and Walsh.
Edit to add that he could not AA with guys like Valencia and Joseph lurking behind as well. I just don't think him getting beat by IMar should make people think that his AA hopes are dashed.
Edit to add that he could not AA with guys like Valencia and Joseph lurking behind as well. I just don't think him getting beat by IMar should make people think that his AA hopes are dashed.
I don't think that's true at all. Other teams are getting their athletes to think about the team success instead of themselves. PSU and TOSU guys are doing it year after year. It is easy to see they have a mindset more focused on the team than individual success.
Micah Jordan went 31-3 during his redshirt year at 157. He sucked an insane amount of weight to get down to 141 for the team. It cost him by the end. He probably could have started for TOSU at 49 or 57, but the team was best with him at 41.
Pletcher is doing it this year. He started the year at his natural weight and was redshirting. Guess what, the team needs him and he's immediately bumping up a weight and burning that shirt as a true freshman.
The examples are really plentiful with these 2 teams. Guillibon could beat Conaway at 133, and was a very small 141 pounder. He bumped up to get them both in the lineup. Sacrificing his individual success for the team.
This is what the teams competing for titles are doing recently, and if our coaches and athletes are focused on individual success first and foremost then that is hurting the team and we will continue to be beat by PSU and TOSU.
Respectfully disagree. Top coaches want to win team titles. Gable wanted to win team titles. He was willing to wrestle true freshmen to do it (e.g. Davis, McIlravy, McGinness). He was willing to move guys to different weights to do it (e.g. returning champ Troy Steiner). His athletes were willing to follow his lead. His accolades as a coach begin with how many team titles he won, not how many individual champs he coached (that comes in the second line). When coaches or fans start talking about the importance of individual performances, that is code for "We can't win the team title, so let's talk about something positive."
I do agree with you that as an individual athlete, one's goals are personal (NCAA champ, AA, etc.), because that's what you can control. But even then, as a coach you must ensure that individuals' goals align with team goals (simply being the starter might be an individual's goal, but it doesn't help win a team title); you must ensure that you spread your top talent across the weight classes (so that you don't have 2 AA contenders at the same weight and holes at others); and you must recruit with the same parameters (so that you don't spend 75% of your scholarship dollars on 125-pounders).
I will add that on every team roster there are guys who are unlikely to be starters, and they have their own personal goals, and part of the mandate of great coaches (including Gable and Brands) is to help those guys achieve their goals too. I fell into that category and I'm grateful to Gable for helping me. But that can't detract from the uber goal, which is to win team titles.
My two cents. Sorry for the long monologue.
Sadly, I don't see a national team title as a realistic possibility this year. Not without Clark at 100%, and I don't think that's realistic this season.
That came out wrong. Obviously coaches care about team titles, as do athletes, but ask Gilman if he'd rather win an individual title or team title? My point was that coaches spend their time getting their individual athletes primed and ready to roll and yes, there are times when kids sacrifice for the betterment of the team but for the most part, individuals focusing on themselves and coaches focusing on how to maximize each individual is what wins team titles. Team titles are a byproduct of individual success, so focus on individual success. That's my point and in large part, I think coaches take that approach. Hell, Brands says it all the time and I've heard Cael say it to - when individuals do well, the team title takes care of itself.
