165, where do the Hawks go there this year?

[Big Fall]

I don't think that's true at all. Other teams are getting their athletes to think about the team success instead of themselves. PSU and TOSU guys are doing it year after year. It is easy to see they have a mindset more focused on the team than individual success.

Micah Jordan went 31-3 during his redshirt year at 157. He sucked an insane amount of weight to get down to 141 for the team. It cost him by the end. He probably could have started for TOSU at 49 or 57, but the team was best with him at 41.

Pletcher is doing it this year. He started the year at his natural weight and was redshirting. Guess what, the team needs him and he's immediately bumping up a weight and burning that shirt as a true freshman.

The examples are really plentiful with these 2 teams. Guillibon could beat Conaway at 133, and was a very small 141 pounder. He bumped up to get them both in the lineup. Sacrificing his individual success for the team.

This is what the teams competing for titles are doing recently, and if our coaches and athletes are focused on individual success first and foremost then that is hurting the team and we will continue to be beat by PSU and TOSU.

Your examples are of teams that are right there on the cusp and needed that little bump and in those cases, I agree. But Iowa is not there. If we had Clark full bore and say Turk didn't get hurt and looked like a strong AA at 141, then I could buy into using AM or KY at 165. But as is, it's not even close to being worth it.

Just look at the lineups of the other big boys compared to ours. Do a dual comparison on wrestlestats with our current lineup. At some point, you have to be realistic about our team chances this year.

 

[crablegs1]

Your examples are of teams that are right there on the cusp and needed that little bump and in those cases, I agree. But Iowa is not there. If we had Clark full bore and say Turk didn't get hurt and looked like a strong AA at 141, then I could buy into using AM or KY at 165. But as is, it's not even close to being worth it.

Just look at the lineups of the other big boys compared to ours. Do a dual comparison on wrestlestats with our current lineup. At some point, you have to be realistic about our team chances this year.

I think holding a potential AA out of the lineup and possibly costing the team a trophy is a selfish act.

With Clark being a question mark, we are probably not winning the title. But is it really a matter of "if you're not first you're last"? I don't think so. I'd rather get that 3rd place trophy than take 5th. we have point scorers sitting in the wings at 165 and I don't understand not wrestling one of them when the difference between a trophy or not could be just a few points.

 

[Sandor45]

My god. Is Clark that bad?!
Judging from this board, he's in a hospital with iv in him hoping to wake from his coma by Big Tens

 

[reddogg26]

I am going to say the Hawks have a decent shot at winning it in March but honestly I am expecting a 2nd or 3rd team finish. Just to much firepower in happy valley. Then you have Oklahoma State who could very easily have 10 AA's. I guess I am not as worried as much about fosu as most are.

psu: Suriano probably wrestles for 3rd and I would not be shocked if he was in the finals against GMAN, Cortez rd. of 12 if he is lucky, Guilibon or whoever is at 141 another rd. of 12 type if lucky, Retherford wins it with LOTS of bonus pts., Nolf wins it with LOTS of bonus pts., Joseph could be a low AA but I think he ends up rd. of 12, Rasheed is a rd. of 12 type, Nickal probably gets 2nd to Dean but probably does not score as many bonus pts. as last year he is still going to score bonus pts. but not as many as last year, McCutcheon probably ends up being a low AA, Nevils probably wrestles Stoll for 3rd.

Oky. State: Piccinninni low AA, Brock gets 2nd to 4th, Heil gets 2nd, Collica gets 4th, Smith gets 2nd, Rodgers low AA, Crutch gets 3rd-5th, Boyd gets 5th to rd. of 12, Weigel gets 4th to 6th, and hwt is a low AA to rd of 12.

Fosu: Tomato gets 1st-4th I have him at 4 right now, Pletcher ouch, Jordan gets 3rd, Jordan gets 2nd or 3rd, Martin getting a taste of how INSANE 184 is could finish 3rd to rd. of 12. Moore probably is a low AA and of coarse Synder wins it.

Iowa: GMan wins it, Clark gets 1st-4th, Topher MIGHT AA but right now I say rd. of 12, BS gets 2nd, Kemdawg anywhere from 3rd to rd of 12 I still have him getting 4th, IF its the Bull the BEST he can do this year is probably 4th, he is NOT beating IMart, Massa or Jordan this year, Meyer has impressed me a lot this year see how he does with Valencia later today but he could get 3rd or 8th, Brooks man I love him but I am REALLY worried about him 184 is a meat grinder and he just cant have matches like yesterday so I will say he ends up 8th. Stoll finishes 3rd or 4th.....

 

[Stanley75]

My god. Is Clark that bad?!
Judging from this board, he's in a hospital with iv in him hoping to wake from his coma by Big Tens

Is he wrestling?

 

[Omahahawk86]

My god. Is Clark that bad?!
Judging from this board, he's in a hospital with iv in him hoping to wake from his coma by Big Tens

Yes

 

[akaoni]

My god. Is Clark that bad?!
Judging from this board, he's in a hospital with iv in him hoping to wake from his coma by Big Tens

Shoulder injuries are tricky, especially in wrestling. I have no info other than what is gleaned on this board and social media, but it wouldn't surprise me if he isn't 100% this year or tries to go and reinjures it. But I'm a pessimist at heart FWIW.

 

[el dub]

My god. Is Clark that bad?!
Judging from this board, he's in a hospital with iv in him hoping to wake from his coma by Big Tens

It's his shoulder, not a coma. Remember the problems McD had late in his career?

 

[SPOONER]

My god. Is Clark that bad?!
Judging from this board, he's in a hospital with iv in him hoping to wake from his coma by Big Tens

Don't be dumb.

 

[wasdt21]

I still have clark as title favorite in my book.

 

[edquinn06]

It's his shoulder, not a coma. Remember the problems McD had late in his career?

this is what I'm worried about.

 

[rossel 33]

Can we wait and see how this tournament goes?

----

Good idea. Those penciling in Marinelli for high AA finish this season may want to note what happened in the 3rd place match.

Marinelli got mauled pretty good by A. Valencia before getting pinned in the first period. Valencia is ranked #12.

Marinelli will be a stud for Iowa, no one doubts that. But right now, 165# is pretty loaded, and penciling him in for high AA finish in March is a stretch, imho.

If Clark is fully recovered and Iowa has a legit shot at winning it, then maybe a case could be made for either Young or Marinelli at 165# this season, in the hopes of getting a few extra points. Let TnT figure it out. I have confidence they'll do best for both the team and Alex.

 

[LaxHawk174]

http://s200.trackwrestling.com/tw/P...twSessionId=uddvprtzdenpfms&videoId=193470076

Maybe I'm being tricked by Toms impeccable Coach-speak, but im getting the vibe that Clarks injury wasnt maybe as serious as we thought? I dont know. I know the coaching staff is always 'optimistic' about their guys with injuries and use coach speak. But with the McDonough situation it seemed like Tom was a little more serious like 'Hes fine' and he knew the injuries were significant for McD.

That coupled with the fact he seemed to strongly suggest the scales were tipping in favor of starting Marinelli, which may be due to a positive read on Clarks health, realizing it may be time to go all in and try to win the title.

Or maybe im completely overthinking the whole thing, who knows I cant sleep.

 

[StParis]

Remember the problems McD had late in his career?

Other than cutting too much?

Unfortunately he had to....

 

[wasdt21]

I've said from beginning no rush, get him ready however long it takes. if i'm wrong and it's really serious well at least I had hope for alittle longer. nobody on here knows if they did they couldn't say.i've expected him back and ready since he went down, if april gets here and no cory I will know I am a fool.to answer your question tom sounded positive to me.

 

[AFHawk86]

http://s200.trackwrestling.com/tw/P...twSessionId=uddvprtzdenpfms&videoId=193470076

Maybe I'm being tricked by Toms impeccable Coach-speak, but im getting the vibe that Clarks injury wasnt maybe as serious as we thought?

Yes, you've been tricked. Tom always says his wrestler could've gone but they're being conservative. He said the same thing about Stoll earlier in the season, then admitted in this same interview that he only expected Stoll to wrestle a couple matches at Midlands. That's a consistent contradiction that goes along with being a coach and not wanting to tip the hand.

If Clark had a shoulder injury as was reported, there's no way he's coming back next weekend against Michigan and is anywhere close to 100%.

 

[el dub]

Other than cutting too much?

Unfortunately he had to....

I doubt that big cut wrecked McD's shoulder.

 

[Gusaford]

I am not too despondent over Marinelli's loss to A. Valencia, but I would still keep Marinelli's shirt on.

A. Valencia is far better than the 12th ranked wrestler at 165. He's not as good as IMAR, Jordan or Massa, but I bet he's as good as anyone else. True, Marinelli laid an egg against him, but Valencia has two go-to moves -- the blast double and the slide by. Marinelli fell for the slide-by, not once, but twice in the space of a minute. Marinelli can be coached not to fall for that move ever again. As for the cradle, Alex tried to fight off the takedown too long. That rookie mistake happens -- ask David Taylor.

All that said, Marinelli is an unbelievable talent. He gets to guys' legs so easily it makes you want to cry. But he's still green, and he's light for the weight class. There's too great a chance he'll get tripped up at nationals before getting deep into the tournament. Next year, he'll be awesome.

Young was also a revelation this weekend. Good feet, good pace, good riding ability, great toughness. We have a diamond in the rough there.

Last comment on the young guys. Wilcke seems like he might be ready to make some noise and beat a quality guy, but can the coaches please get him to wrestle with a little more pace, energy and passion? It's almost like he's afraid to show that he wants to win.

 

[SPOONER]

Other than cutting too much?

Unfortunately he had to....

Wut? Cutting weight lead to a torn labrum, among other issues? Lol

 

[neversurrender]

Wut? Cutting weight lead to a torn labrum, among other issues? Lol

Well obviously, I mean I know when I tried going on a diet last year my shoulder instantly needed surgery without me doing anything more than getting a shirt out for work one morning. You've seen enough wrestling to know it's always weight cutting and never an actual injury

 

[24 so far]

Other than cutting too much?

Unfortunately he had to....

"Unfortunately" McDonough HAD to cut weight? LOL!

If I remember correctly, his parents were employed while he was at Iowa, so potentially going up a pant size wasn't going to be an issue.

I'm assuming that was your angle, because otherwise you aren't remembering things very clearly.

 

[Mattski]

I am going to say the Hawks have a decent shot at winning it in March but honestly I am expecting a 2nd or 3rd team finish. Just to much firepower in happy valley. Then you have Oklahoma State who could very easily have 10 AA's. I guess I am not as worried as much about fosu as most are.

psu: Suriano probably wrestles for 3rd and I would not be shocked if he was in the finals against GMAN, Cortez rd. of 12 if he is lucky, Guilibon or whoever is at 141 another rd. of 12 type if lucky, Retherford wins it with LOTS of bonus pts., Nolf wins it with LOTS of bonus pts., Joseph could be a low AA but I think he ends up rd. of 12, Rasheed is a rd. of 12 type, Nickal probably gets 2nd to Dean but probably does not score as many bonus pts. as last year he is still going to score bonus pts. but not as many as last year, McCutcheon probably ends up being a low AA, Nevils probably wrestles Stoll for 3rd.

Oky. State: Piccinninni low AA, Brock gets 2nd to 4th, Heil gets 2nd, Collica gets 4th, Smith gets 2nd, Rodgers low AA, Crutch gets 3rd-5th, Boyd gets 5th to rd. of 12, Weigel gets 4th to 6th, and hwt is a low AA to rd of 12.

Fosu: Tomato gets 1st-4th I have him at 4 right now, Pletcher ouch, Jordan gets 3rd, Jordan gets 2nd or 3rd, Martin getting a taste of how INSANE 184 is could finish 3rd to rd. of 12. Moore probably is a low AA and of coarse Synder wins it.

Iowa: GMan wins it, Clark gets 1st-4th, Topher MIGHT AA but right now I say rd. of 12, BS gets 2nd, Kemdawg anywhere from 3rd to rd of 12 I still have him getting 4th, IF its the Bull the BEST he can do this year is probably 4th, he is NOT beating IMart, Massa or Jordan this year, Meyer has impressed me a lot this year see how he does with Valencia later today but he could get 3rd or 8th, Brooks man I love him but I am REALLY worried about him 184 is a meat grinder and he just cant have matches like yesterday so I will say he ends up 8th. Stoll finishes 3rd or 4th.....

Okie state will have a couple guys not show up and fail to place. Always do.

 

[el dub]

Other than cutting too much?

Unfortunately he had to....

Hey, you're the guy who knows jack!

 

[Sandor45]

It's his shoulder, not a coma. Remember the problems McD had late in his career?

 

[24 so far]

----

Good idea. Those penciling in Marinelli for high AA finish this season may want to note what happened in the 3rd place match.

Marinelli got mauled pretty good by A. Valencia before getting pinned in the first period. Valencia is ranked #12.

Marinelli will be a stud for Iowa, no one doubts that. But right now, 165# is pretty loaded, and penciling him in for high AA finish in March is a stretch, imho.

If Clark is fully recovered and Iowa has a legit shot at winning it, then maybe a case could be made for either Young or Marinelli at 165# this season, in the hopes of getting a few extra points. Let TnT figure it out. I have confidence they'll do best for both the team and Alex.

Agreed for the most part. We have to remember Marinelli has been sitting out lately as well, for a presumed injury of some sort. That probably didn't help his progression much, but not making excuses for him, he got whipped either way. You step out there, you deal with it as best you can, and he didn't deal with it too well in this particular instance.

Young is more of a full fledged 165 lber right now for sure, and he's making a case for starting if he so desires. He probably SHOULD have been in the Finals to get his 1st experience of an IMart mauling.

I don't know what the best route is at this time either, but I would assume the Brands Brothers are heavily contemplating what they want to do at this weight as I type this. IF you're going to release one of these guys, it's best to do it now and let them attempt to put together a resume for seeding purposes. At least in my view.

That's why they get the big bucks, and unfortunately they don't have the luxury of just shrugging it off, largely because they haven't been close to an NCAA Title for quite a stretch. Of course you want to win one every year, but when you haven't won in awhile, it certainly has to be a factor in the decision making process.

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

Okie state will have a couple guys not show up and fail to place. Always do.

Chandler Rogers will be one of them in my opinion.

 

[StParis]

I doubt that big cut wrecked McD's shoulder.

Oh I know.

Wut? Cutting weight lead to a torn labrum, among other issues? Lol

yea yea yea I know....it was a bad attempt at a joke.

 

[SPOONER]

Oh I know.

yea yea yea I know....it was a bad attempt at a joke.

Kwood is in charge of bad jokes around here. And even his aren't that bad.

 

[Besthawkfan]

Redshirt them both. Next year should be:
157 Marinelli
165 Kemdawg
174 Young.
Kemdawg has the frame to go up. Marinelli would be a beast at 157.

 

[AFHawk86]

I'm leaning Young. Then RS him next year and grow him into 174 while Marinelli takes 165.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Oh I know.

yea yea yea I know....it was a bad attempt at a joke.

You realize there is only room for ONE Class Clown around here.