42 Trillion Dollars, 270 Million Acres

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

According to this Bloomberg article, as well as other articles and research I’ve read, and because people in this country are schooled and indoctrinated into putting dollar amounts to everything in order to appreciate them, I figured people on this day would want to consider a few numbers.

$42 Trillion

The racial wealth gap begins with slavery itself, which was a huge wealth generator for White Americans. The economic value of the 4 million slaves in 1860 was, on average, $1,000 per person, or about $4 billion total. That was more than all the banks, railroads and factories in the U.S. were worth at the time. In today’s dollars, that would come out to as much as $42 trillion, accounting for inflation and compounding interest.

270 Million Acres

Just as Black people were being denied the land promised to them, the U.S. government provided another wealth-building stimulus to mostly White Americans. In 1862, the government enacted the Homestead Acts, a series of laws meant to help settle the American west. The federal government distributed 270 million acres of land mostly stolen from Native Americans to settlers. It’s estimated that 48 million Americans today are descendants of those original homesteaders.

Meanwhile our highly educated and brave and totally not Orwellian governor and gop legislators and judges are continuing to actively prevent us and our children from learning actual facts, actual numbers, actual history.

Four Numbers That Show the Cost of Slavery on Black Wealth Today

Four Numbers That Show the Cost of Slavery on Black Wealth Today

www.bqprime.com

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

Let me know when the OP.post something that isn't about how shitty our country is.



If there is a bot on this site, it is OP.

 

[OrlandNole]

This is all just propaganda to distract us from the real injustice: White people don't have a day set aside just for ourselves!

 

[SoProudNole]

Let me know when the OP.post something that isn't a out how shitty our country is.



If there is a bot on this site, it is OP.

The more we’re willing to openly and honestly discuss and a address the shitty stuff, the better a country it will be.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

The more we’re willing to openly and honestly discuss and a address the shitty stuff, the better a country it will be.

To an extent yes, being critical is a good thing, constantly pointing to negatives and creating dissension is propaganda.

 

[win4jj]

The more we’re willing to openly and honestly discuss and a address the shitty stuff, the better a country it will be.

In fairness to this shitty country, the rest of humanity has been shitty for the last 5,000 years. Give or take.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

Let me know when the OP.post something that isn't about how shitty our country is.



If there is a bot on this site, it is OP.

Go ahead and shoot the messenger with your AR15 all you want.

go ahead and presume that anyone who disagrees with you and cites widely documented facts and actual history as a bot, or group all of the people who don’t hold your delusional world view as a single bot and designate yourself as an insider on your Maga QAnon conspiracy mainlining addiction.

any responsible person would look at those facts, consider how money was made in this country, from the south to the New York banks, and either acknowledge it and be responsible for it, or shoot the messenger.

you, kind sir, choose to shoot and shoot and shoot.

I live in Iowa city and I attend football games and I’m an alumnus of the University and two of my family members have gone to the University and I work very hard to try to understand things, admit when I’m wrong, and share important information. If you don’t like it, either you can keep shooting, or try to ignore it, or just come out and say you don’t care. Because I think that’s what it is: you just don’t care.

White supremacists just don’t care. Over the generations they took and took and took, and now they just wanna keep it and feel entitled to grow it. And they will shoot to kill in order to keep it. They will tear down our institutions and rule of law and our democracy itself in order to retain what they’ve appropriated.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

In fairness to this shitty country, the rest of humanity has been shitty for the last 5,000 years. Give or take.

Yeah but if we still want to have a country and have a democracy, just saying “other people did it too”, or playing the trumpist whatabout-ism game, only ensures our demise.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

Go ahead and shoot the messenger with your AR15 all you want.

go ahead and presume that anyone who disagrees with you and cites widely documented facts and actual history as a bot, or group all of the people who don’t hold your delusional world view as a single bot and designate yourself as an insider on your Maga QAnon conspiracy mainlining addiction.

any responsible person would look at those facts, consider how money was made in this country, from the south to the New York banks, and either acknowledge it and be responsible for it, or shoot the messenger.

you, kind sir, choose to shoot and shoot and shoot.

I live in Iowa city and I attend football games and I’m an alumnist of the University and two of my family members have gone to the University and I work very hard to try to understand things, admit when I’m wrong, and share important information. If you don’t like it, either you can keep shooting, or try to ignore it, or just come out and say you don’t care. Because I think that’s what it is: you just don’t care.

White supremacists just don’t care. Over the generations they took and took and took, and now they just wanna keep it and feel entitled to grow it. And they will shoot to kill in order to keep it. They will tear down our institutions and rule of law and our democracy itself in order to retain what they’ve appropriated.

Feel free to search my history on how I believe we should handle reparations, if the coding allows you to do so.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

To an extent yes, being critical is a good thing, constantly pointing to negatives and creating dissension is propaganda.

Good sir, the GOP claiming that teaching history or discussing it here is “creating dissension“ is literally censorship and white washing history and telling its victims to shut up or ship out. What is the GOP so afraid of? What are you so afraid of? If anyone points out facts around here, you call them a bot, or insult them.

i’ve provided documentation for these facts and you can find much more from reputable sources to back up these claims. The fact is that the financial centers of the north benefited hugely from slavery, and many of our most illustrious institutions from Yale to Harvard to our largest companies at the time and in decades following benefited from it and the mostly white people who ran them and owned them, and the white working class became a white middle class became a white upper middle class and upper class, by taking advantage of federal programs from land giveaways to mortgages to the G.I. Bill. and minorities, particularly African-Americans, were denied almost all of these generational privileges to build wealth.

A few years ago the Boston fed did an extensive study that determined that the household value of non-immigrant blacks in the Boston area was eight dollars, yes $8, compared to almost $250,000 for white households.

It’s Juneteenth today. That’s why I bring the stuff up.

And all you want to do is shut me up. Wow.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

Feel free to search my history on how I believe we should handle reparations, if the coding allows you to do so.

Please do explain your proposals here, sir.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

Please do explain your proposals here, sir.

Mind a copy paste from a previous thread to get us started so I don't have to rewrite everything?


@DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs


This is as concise as possible:

Whiskeydeltadeltatango said:
No dipshit, I have been very vocal about my stance. Write the ****ing check to those that deserve it. Make that ****er big enough, one time, that in 10 years there is no more "but we havebeen wrong done by" if your going to write the check, do it and be done and make everything "equal". There is no ****ing point of reperations if in 10 years we are right back to where we are now. Nobody actually wants to do that though because its a lot easier to bitch.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

Well Sir that right there is an angry policy recommendation! But I am impressed that you agree that reparations are warranted.

my proposals for some kind of reparations would be means tested, so that already wealthy families wouldn’t benefit further, and it would be part of a new deal type initiative that would include single payer healthcare (Medicare for all, allowing people if they want to have private healthcare to keep it) and free public education and universal daycare and those would also benefit everyone, especially people in the middle and lower classes of all races and creeds and identities. It would bring us together as a country by investing in the people of our country. It’s actually not that complicated.

It’s called investing in the future, rather than mortgaging the future and selling our children out. It’s how to make democracy work for everyone, because if it doesn’t work for a huge percentage of the population, it simply will not be sustained.

 

[Titanhawk2]

According to this Bloomberg article, as well as other articles and research I’ve read, and because people in this country are schooled and indoctrinated into putting dollar amounts to everything in order to appreciate them, I figured people on this day would want to consider a few numbers.

$42 Trillion

The racial wealth gap begins with slavery itself, which was a huge wealth generator for White Americans. The economic value of the 4 million slaves in 1860 was, on average, $1,000 per person, or about $4 billion total. That was more than all the banks, railroads and factories in the U.S. were worth at the time. In today’s dollars, that would come out to as much as $42 trillion, accounting for inflation and compounding interest.

270 Million Acres

Just as Black people were being denied the land promised to them, the U.S. government provided another wealth-building stimulus to mostly White Americans. In 1862, the government enacted the Homestead Acts, a series of laws meant to help settle the American west. The federal government distributed 270 million acres of land mostly stolen from Native Americans to settlers. It’s estimated that 48 million Americans today are descendants of those original homesteaders.

Meanwhile our highly educated and brave and totally not Orwellian governor and gop legislators and judges are continuing to actively prevent us and our children from learning actual facts, actual numbers, actual history.

Four Numbers That Show the Cost of Slavery on Black Wealth Today

Four Numbers That Show the Cost of Slavery on Black Wealth Today

www.bqprime.com

Wasn't getting away from slavery meaning no longer putting a price on people?

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

Well Sir that right there is an angry policy recommendation! But I am impressed that you agree that reparations are warranted.

my proposals for some kind of reparations would be means tested, so that already wealthy families wouldn’t benefit further, and it would be part of a new deal type initiative that would include single payer healthcare (Medicare for all, allowing people if they want to have private healthcare to keep it) and free public education and universal daycare and those would also benefit everyone, especially people in the middle and lower classes of all races and creeds and identities. It would bring us together as a country by investing in the people of our country. It’s actually not that complicated.

It’s called investing in the future, rather than mortgaging the future and selling our children out. It’s how to make democracy work for everyone, because if it doesn’t work for a huge percentage of the population, it simply will not be sustained.

I disagree with what you are wanting to use as a reparation because I think those are things that would only increase dependency on government.


Even if I were to agree with it though here is the ugly truth, Democrat nor republican, black nor white, want anything to do with this topic for various reasons.

Republicans don't want to acknowledge there was wrong doing. Democrats don't want to deal with the inevitable "we made things fair and this community is still way behind so now we have to actually acknowledge the short comings of this communities culture not just point at the other guy". Nobody wants the other guy to get free shit and while it's easy to sit here and think we would help everyone, in order to actually repay the victims you would have to segment the portion of the black community that did and didn't deserve the money cuz ya can't give it to everyone or else the people that were ****ed back then still are not up to even.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Well, crap. What do we owe the Indians?

🤷‍♀️

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

Well, crap. What do we owe the Indians?

🤷‍♀️

We dont want to worry about them, or the Irish, or the catholics, or the asains.....

 

[FAUlty Gator]

Good sir, the GOP claiming that teaching history or discussing it here is “creating dissension“ is literally censorship and white washing history and telling its victims to shut up or ship out. What is the GOP so afraid of? What are you so afraid of? If anyone points out facts around here, you call them a bot, or insult them.

i’ve provided documentation for these facts and you can find much more from reputable sources to back up these claims.

So, exactly what happens when people bring up the importance of two parent families or fathers. Stats and facts don’t seem to matter anymore to many when that important tidbit shows up. That conversation gets shut down very quickly, once someone mentions the importance of having two parents. But I get it:

 

[theiacowtipper]

To an extent yes, being critical is a good thing, constantly pointing to negatives and creating dissension is propaganda.

Horse crap. Link to you calling out republicans who do nothing except spew negativity? You’re a hypocritical POS

 

[win4jj]

Yeah but if we still want to have a country and have a democracy, just saying “other people did it too”, or playing the trumpist whatabout-ism game, only ensures our demise.

My only dog in this fight is my existence, and my family. I acknowledge I did a whataboutism. But it was in jest, and had not one thing to do with trump. Just humanity within a whole. We can do better. But I’m afraid we have past that threshold.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

Horse crap. Link to you calling out republicans who do nothing except spew negativity? You’re a hypocritical POS

How many examples do I need to provide of me calling out a dumb republican on this board or politician before you post "I was wrong, you have called out Republicans wddt, I pissed my pants"


I won't even use the one from this thread (p#15)

 

[Hawk_4shur]

So, exactly what happens when people bring up the importance of two parent families or fathers. Stats and facts don’t seem to matter anymore to many when that important tidbit shows up. That conversation gets shut down very quickly, once someone mentions the importance of having two parents. But I get it:

I think 2 parent families are incredibly important. So is sitting around the dinner table with the family, or going to church as a family - or camping, fishing, skiing, etc. Helping with homework, teaching morals and behavior, encouraging learning.

How about how important it is that the family get along, and support each other - live in a decent home?

These are important things that could have a major impact on the world, right?

Sooooooo ..... how do we do that?

 

[seminole97]

About 600,000 slaves were transported to the United States, or 5% of the twelve million slaves taken from Africa

If slavery was America’s secret to wealth, why did Central and South America do such a terrible job creating wealth with 95% of the slaves taken from Africa?
For that matter, if slaves are key to creating wealth, why was Africa so relatively poor?

 

[theiacowtipper]

How many examples do I need to provide of me calling out a dumb republican on this board or politician before you post "I was wrong, you have called out Republicans wddt, I pissed my pants"


I won't even use the one from this thread (p#15)

I just read that post. You criticized republicans but not for negativity. The fact that republicans forever criticize without ever formulating an alternative plan.

 

[globalhawk]

Wasn't getting away from slavery meaning no longer putting a price on people?

Like salaries.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

Like salaries.

Jfc

 

[FAUlty Gator]

I think 2 parent families are incredibly important. So is sitting around the dinner table with the family, or going to church as a family - or camping, fishing, skiing, etc. Helping with homework, teaching morals and behavior, encouraging learning.

How about how important it is that the family get along, and support each other - live in a decent home?

These are important things that could have a major impact on the world, right?

Sooooooo ..... how do we do that?

No doubt. The conversation and problem is in need of multi-pronged solutions and participants. But there are many on each side afraid of those conversations.

 

[globalhawk]

Jfc

My buddy is back.

 

[BelemNole]

Well, crap. What do we owe the Indians?

🤷‍♀️

At least $3.4 Billion. That's how much the lawsuit the govt lost was for that illustrated how the feds failed to pay native americans for oil and gas, etc extracted from their lands for decades under the BIA. They decided that the natives were too dumb and naïve to handle the money so they just kept it.

BTW, the govt still hasn't paid that money out, even thought they lost the suit decades ago.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

At least $3.4 Billion. That's how much the lawsuit the govt lost was for that illustrated how the feds failed to pay native americans for oil and gas, etc extracted from their lands for decades under the BIA. They decided that the natives were too dumb and naïve to handle the money so they just kept it.

BTW, the govt still hasn't paid that money out, even thought they lost the suit decades ago.

The US Government has found a group of people that they could exploit with no fear of retribution. They don't have enough votes to matter, so let's just stomp on them some more. 300 years doesn't seem like enough.

 

[AreWeCross]

According to this Bloomberg article, as well as other articles and research I’ve read, and because people in this country are schooled and indoctrinated into putting dollar amounts to everything in order to appreciate them, I figured people on this day would want to consider a few numbers.

$42 Trillion

The racial wealth gap begins with slavery itself, which was a huge wealth generator for White Americans. The economic value of the 4 million slaves in 1860 was, on average, $1,000 per person, or about $4 billion total. That was more than all the banks, railroads and factories in the U.S. were worth at the time. In today’s dollars, that would come out to as much as $42 trillion, accounting for inflation and compounding interest.

270 Million Acres

Just as Black people were being denied the land promised to them, the U.S. government provided another wealth-building stimulus to mostly White Americans. In 1862, the government enacted the Homestead Acts, a series of laws meant to help settle the American west. The federal government distributed 270 million acres of land mostly stolen from Native Americans to settlers. It’s estimated that 48 million Americans today are descendants of those original homesteaders.

Meanwhile our highly educated and brave and totally not Orwellian governor and gop legislators and judges are continuing to actively prevent us and our children from learning actual facts, actual numbers, actual history.

Four Numbers That Show the Cost of Slavery on Black Wealth Today

Four Numbers That Show the Cost of Slavery on Black Wealth Today

www.bqprime.com

Sooo....What's your solution?

 

[AreWeCross]

Well Sir that right there is an angry policy recommendation! But I am impressed that you agree that reparations are warranted.

my proposals for some kind of reparations would be means tested, so that already wealthy families wouldn’t benefit further, and it would be part of a new deal type initiative that would include single payer healthcare (Medicare for all, allowing people if they want to have private healthcare to keep it) and free public education and universal daycare and those would also benefit everyone, especially people in the middle and lower classes of all races and creeds and identities. It would bring us together as a country by investing in the people of our country. It’s actually not that complicated.

It’s called investing in the future, rather than mortgaging the future and selling our children out. It’s how to make democracy work for everyone, because if it doesn’t work for a huge percentage of the population, it simply will not be sustained.

Just read your solution. Please ignore my last post. Do we have the money to invest in the future? It seems we have invested in our future to the point our debt could be our greatest National Security risk. All of us, R's D's, I's and any other political party a US Citizen chooses to identify with have created an economically fragile country.

Any solutions to anything have to come with fiscal responsibility. Something none of our politicians want to solve.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

Wasn't getting away from slavery meaning no longer putting a price on people?

As far as I understand, the studies looked at documents of the era, specifically right before the Civil War, and took the average price per slave at the time, and then simply did a present value calculation which includes compound interest, and came up with the $42 trillion number. Obviously it’s not about putting a price on a human being, but putting a price on their contribution to the economy, and the systematic effort to exclude them from the benefits of such economic development all the way to today.

economic measures of wealth, whether it’s household wealth or earning power, or even the value of a human life, is something that’s done all the time, and you should know that. Even for victims of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, compensation was paid based on earnings, so a millionaire or a billionaire’s family got a lot more money then a maintenance worker or a fire fighter’s family, which at the time I found to be quite disgusting, especially considering that the people who made the big bucks who lost their lives were arguably doing a lot less good managing their hedge funds or selling junk bonds or derivatives, than the heroic firefighters or other first responders.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

Well Sir that right there is an angry policy recommendation! But I am impressed that you agree that reparations are warranted.

my proposals for some kind of reparations would be means tested, so that already wealthy families wouldn’t benefit further, and it would be part of a new deal type initiative that would include single payer healthcare (Medicare for all, allowing people if they want to have private healthcare to keep it) and free public education and universal daycare and those would also benefit everyone, especially people in the middle and lower classes of all races and creeds and identities. It would bring us together as a country by investing in the people of our country. It’s actually not that complicated.

It’s called investing in the future, rather than mortgaging the future and selling our children out. It’s how to make democracy work for everyone, because if it doesn’t work for a huge percentage of the population, it simply will not be sustained.

To the posters who asked what my proposals are, they are above. And yes indigenous people are owed compensation. At least 20 million of were annihilated just in the United States alone. And 175 million in the western hemisphere since 1492.

 

[AreWeCross]

As far as I understand, the studies looked at documents of the era, specifically right before the Civil War, and took the average price per slave at the time, and then simply did a present value calculation which includes compound interest, and came up with the $42 trillion number. Obviously it’s not about putting a price on a human being, but putting a price on their contribution to the economy, and the systematic effort to exclude them from the benefits of such economic development all the way to today.

economic measures of wealth, whether it’s household wealth or earning power, or even the value of a human life, is something that’s done all the time, and you should know that. Even for victims of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, compensation was paid based on earnings, so a millionaire or a billionaire’s family got a lot more money then a maintenance worker or a fire fighter’s family, which at the time I found to be quite disgusting, especially considering that the people who made the big bucks who lost their lives were arguably doing a lot less good managing their hedge funds or selling junk bonds or derivatives, than the heroic firefighters or other first responders.

Do the studies include any state or federal funds already received by the parties it identifies as being harmed? Or do they not acknowledge the amount of public and private money already distributed?

 

[seminole97]

At least $3.4 Billion. That's how much the lawsuit the govt lost was for that illustrated how the feds failed to pay native americans for oil and gas, etc extracted from their lands for decades under the BIA. They decided that the natives were too dumb and naïve to handle the money so they just kept it.

BTW, the govt still hasn't paid that money out, even thought they lost the suit decades ago.

Who decides to not pay that out?
I figure one of the board’s lawyers can explain if there is a fund for this, or does Congress literally have to appropriate the money?
I recall something in this vein with the Darling death. FSU could make a settlement offer, but it took an act of the legislature to make it happen.

 

[biggreydogs]

The more we’re willing to openly and honestly discuss and a address the shitty stuff, the better a country it will be.

Iowa state is still shitty.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

Do the studies include any state or federal funds already received by the parties it identifies as being harmed? Or do they not acknowledge the amount of public and private money already distributed?

There are other studies that measure what you’re asking for, and you can find them I’m sure. But when you’re looking at generations of expropriated wealth, or systematic differential benefits of wealth, it is impossible not to see that certain groups benefited exponentially more and others were basically continually robbed.

I would refer you to the recent study by the Boston Federal Reserve Bank on the inequities in black versus white household wealth, which determined that non-immigrant blacks have an average wealth of a total of eight dollars, and whites about a quarter of a million.

I’m pretty sure though that the amount of differential benefits paid to African-Americans is a tiny fraction of the $42 trillion that their ancestors were “worth” just before the Civil War.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

At least $3.4 Billion. That's how much the lawsuit the govt lost was for that illustrated how the feds failed to pay native americans for oil and gas, etc extracted from their lands for decades under the BIA. They decided that the natives were too dumb and naïve to handle the money so they just kept it.

BTW, the govt still hasn't paid that money out, even thought they lost the suit decades ago.

I didn’t know about that, but I’m sure that total far understates the actual value of the expropriation. And how do you put a value on the total annihilation of dozens of tribes in this country? You would think that because you can’t pay reparations to people who no longer exist, that we would’ve learned that lesson and we would be investing in children especially, especially minority populations, but really people who are economically disadvantaged across ALL groups, like was done during the New Deal, And in an era through the 60s when the upper income brackets paid close to 90% of income taxes and when corporations really did feel some kind of civic responsibility, but we keep cutting and cutting and cutting, and the elites keep doing their best to start these groups against each other so they can just keep pillaging and growing their wealth. It’s evil.

 

[seminole97]

I would refer you to the recent study by the Boston Federal Reserve Bank on the inequities in black versus white household wealth, which determined that non-immigrant blacks have an average wealth of a total of eight dollars, and whites about a quarter of a million.

Income, education and employment averages vary between immigrant and native born groups. Pew Research Center reported that in 2013, Black immigrants’ median household income was $43,800, approximately $8,000 less than Americans overall at $52,000, but $10,000 more than U.S. born Blacks ($33,500). Among Black immigrants, South Americans earned $55,000, the highest median household income, with African and Caribbean immigrants earning $43,000 and Central American immigrants making $41,400.