9 man rotation

[RomanHawk]

Although he's still disrupting the flow by substituting too many at one time, I have to compliment
Fran for not trying to get a 10th, 11th, or 12th guy into contested games.

But I do think the team would be strengthened by replacing Patrick with Ulis within that rotation.
Since they have different roles, it at first seems inappropriate to compare those two. But with
the interchangeability within the team, I think it makes sense in this case.

I can't think of a game situation, where either offensively or defensively, Patrick can be expected
to add more than Murray.

But I can envision many upcoming game situations where it will be critical to have one more
good ball-handler, defender, shooter, passer, and maybe rebounder on the floor.

Yes, I know why that probably won't happen.

Thoughts?

 

[SotaHawk87]

I agree the 9 man rotation is the way to go. I do not agree that Uhlis should be in the rotation. He‘ll be a good one for us but Patrick’s length is more disruptive. He’s also another guy that can grab a few boards which we need. That being said PMAC has been atrocious on zone D and his shooting has been below average.

 

[Hawkfan_08]

I think you are Lute Hawk with the way you posted that.

I see your point and do think that Murray has been better than Patrick so far. I do trust Patrick to continue to develop into a solid player... plus he adds length to the defense. I would also like to see Ulis and even Perkins get a few minutes every now and again in meaningful games. Maybe a few in the first half depending on matchups every three or four games? I don't know...


On the other hand, I totally agree about keeping rotations short. We don't need 10 guys taking minutes from each other every game. We all know how that ends.

 

[Ronman]

Patrick has essentially played in a total of ten college games so far. I suspect he is pushing things a bit, eager to impress both Dad, brother and the Iowa fans. I think with a bit more experience he will settle down and improve most aspects of his game.

 

[icwesthawk]

So, who are your 9 players?

 

[Underscore2]

Base it on conditioning. The 9 players with stellar conditioning, relatively speaking.

When a player plays aggressive defense, and gets even slightly gassed, keep them in even if they become ineffective.

Because God forbid we go over that 9, or 8, or whatever the current count is according to the "experts" here.

 

[KcTo]

I think this 9 player rotation covers all the bases and if anything doesn’t have enough minutes for all.

but I think that is a good thing, having up and coming youngsters pushing the ‘regulars’ makes everyone play harder.

 

[kcgolfer]

Patrick has flashed his skill at times but no where near consistent. Joe T last year? Give him time he will be very good.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

A 9 player rotation has a good "feel" with this roster currently.
I think it's fine that Patrick is one of the nine, his size and skill set are valuable.
I could also be convinced to add Ulis in for a 10th player, as capable ball handling guards are a must come crunch time.
The conundrum that I see is what to do with Bohannon. I would steal minutes from him for both Toussaint and possibly Ulis, if he continues to shoot as poorly as he has. But if he heats up again from deep then Jbo needs to get floor time.

 

[Hawk fan in Minn]

A 9 player rotation has a good "feel" with this roster currently.
I think it's fine that Patrick is one of the nine, his size and skill set are valuable.
I could also be convinced to add Ulis in for a 10th player, as capable ball handling guards are a must come crunch time.
The conundrum that I see is what to do with Bohannon. I would steal minutes from him for both Toussaint and possibly Ulis, if he continues to shoot as poorly as he has. But if he heats up again from deep then Jbo needs to get floor time.

I know JBo is struggling but there is still no one on the team or in the conference I would rather see shooting a 3 with the shot clock expiring than JBo. Kid has balls of steel and has proven over and over again he is a go to player when we need a big shot.

 

[KcTo]

I know JBo is struggling but there is still no one on the team or in the conference I would rather see shooting a 3 with the shot clock expiring than JBo. Kid has balls of steel and has proven over and over again he is a go to player when we need a big shot.

Agree JoBo has made 300 3‘s in the B1G and has only attempted 22 so far and is 3-8 in B1G play...
id sure like to see him get >20m a game

 

[KcTo]

As mentioned on a previous thread (apologies for repost) I do like PMac and KeMur playing together on the wings (with either big man) and Wieskamp in the #2 hole with JoeT at PG, primarily for their aggregated defensive and offensive skills equivalent to the starters but much greater on the defensive side.

we continually see this unit come in a go on extended scoring runs, this game it was the 10-0 run in 2:21 that broke the game from a 11-13 deficit into a 21-13 lead.
I believe this is because they have superior defensive skills JoeT > JoBo, Ke Mur > ConMac, and PMac > CJF, while owing to the elite scoring of Garza and Wieskamp, combing with these 3 that have excellent secondary scoring skills, (if those elite guys are doubled or helped with, they can all drive it to the rim).

So for this point in time, I’d like to see this unit play together and use their collective defensive skills to create scoring stops that will allowing thei elite offensive to go in scoring runs

 

[Franisdaman]

Although he's still disrupting the flow by substituting too many at one time, I have to compliment
Fran for not trying to get a 10th, 11th, or 12th guy into contested games.

But I do think the team would be strengthened by replacing Patrick with Ulis within that rotation.
Since they have different roles, it at first seems inappropriate to compare those two. But with
the interchangeability within the team, I think it makes sense in this case.

I can't think of a game situation, where either offensively or defensively, Patrick can be expected
to add more than Murray.

But I can envision many upcoming game situations where it will be critical to have one more
good ball-handler, defender, shooter, passer, and maybe rebounder on the floor.

Yes, I know why that probably won't happen.

Thoughts?

Fran has made it known that if a player is performing in practice, it is hard for him to keep that player out of games. We haven't seen much of Ulis or the other 3 freshmen, so what does that tell you?

Against which teams, where Ulis actually got into the game, did Ulis do some things that made you think the team would be strengthened by replacing Patrick with Ulis in the rotation?

 

[Hawk_4shur]

I really like Fran's rotations so far this season, although it is certainly easier when you have lots of guys that can play.

If they were playing the National Championship game tomorrow instead of Minny, I doubt PMac would play. But, Fran has to keep an eye on the rest of the season and the seasons after this one to keep the Hawks at a high level. PMac can be a star, but he has to play to get there. The Hawks will need him more than they will need Ulis to win the B1G and beyond. I don't think you can just bench him because he's still a work in progress if he has the tools to be a serious contributor later on.

Love KM. He may be making some mistakes out there, but all I see are the plays that he makes. He can really help this team now and in the future.

Joe T may, in fact, be a better option than JBo. But I love JBo and believe he is going to get things straighten out and be the player we need in the B1G. Joe is the perfect engine for the 2nd unit. Aggressive, fearless - I think he makes those around him play better.

I have confidence in Fran's plan this year so far.

 

[24 so far]

Fran has made it known that if a player is performing in practice, it is hard for him to keep that player out of games. We haven't seen much of Ulis or the other 3 freshmen, so what does that tell you?

Against which teams, where Ulis actually got into the game, did Ulis do some things that made you think the team would be strengthened by replacing Patrick with Ulis in the rotation?

In regards to the Freshmen who are not playing, it tells me they have better players in front of them who need to be on the court as often as they can be, and really nothing more. Thankfully this is true.

 

[Franisdaman]

In regards to the Freshmen who are not playing, it tells me they have better players in front of them who need to be on the court as often as they can be, and really nothing more. Thankfully this is true.

And Fran has said how impressive Keegan has been in practice (his rebounding, hustle, etc have been impressive). And the result? We are seeing him in the 9 man rotation.

 

[TJHall1]

I agree the 9 man rotation is the way to go. I do not agree that Uhlis should be in the rotation. He‘ll be a good one for us but Patrick’s length is more disruptive. He’s also another guy that can grab a few boards which we need. That being said PMAC has been atrocious on zone D and his shooting has been below average.

His rebounding is terrible. Worst 6'9 rebounder I've seen in a long time.

 

[24 so far]

And Fran has said how impressive Keegan has been in practice (his rebounding, hustle, etc have been impressive). And the result? We are seeing him in the 9 man rotation.

Every player that has been thru Iowa under Fran has been "impressive", "spectacular", "outstanding", in practice. Some don't fare so well in games, but thankfully Keegan Murray does.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

Every player that has been thru Iowa under Fran has been "impressive", "spectacular", "outstanding", in practice. Some don't fare so well in games, but thankfully Keegan Murray does.

Plenty of positive things about what Fran has done. However, his pronouncements of player's practice prowess(say that three times fast!) should be taken with a grain of salt.

Keegan is an exception.

 

[RomanHawk]

First, I think all the emphasis has to be on THIS season. Since Garza will be gone next year, THIS season is our best opportunity to make a mark, to establish a reputation that will serve us well as we go into future seasons. We can worry about next season starting in April.

Patrick is not coming up to Murray's level in any aspect (defense, shooting, rebounding,,,,,,) so any minutes he gets that Murray doesn't get are a net negative. How does it help THIS team to put a net negative on the floor? He may very well develop into a significant contributor but is giving no indication that that is going to happen anytime soon. Bigger guys typically reach their potential later in their careers than guards.

On the other hand, as we head into a tough schedule and tournaments we know the importance of guard play. We also know we have weaknesses there: that there will be situations where better defense is critical, or where more good ball-handling is critical, or..... We are also confident that Ulis or maybe even Perkins can make a positive spot contribution in those situations. Those chances would increase even more if Ulis, for example, were receiving more than only about a third of the PT as Pat.

This seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[WeRIowa]

First, I think all the emphasis has to be on THIS season. Since Garza will be gone next year, THIS season is our best opportunity to make a mark, to establish a reputation that will serve us well as we go into future seasons. We can worry about next season starting in April.

Patrick is not coming up to Murray's level in any aspect (defense, shooting, rebounding,,,,,,) so any minutes he gets that Murray doesn't get are a net negative. How does it help THIS team to put a net negative on the floor? He may very well develop into a significant contributor but is giving no indication that that is going to happen anytime soon. Bigger guys typically reach their potential later in their careers than guards.

On the other hand, as we head into a tough schedule and tournaments we know the importance of guard play. We also know we have weaknesses there: that there will be situations where better defense is critical, or where more good ball-handling is critical, or..... We are also confident that Ulis or maybe even Perkins can make a positive spot contribution in those situations. Those chances would increase even more if Ulis, for example, were receiving more than only about a third of the PT as Pat.

This seems like a no brainer to me.

Keegan and Patrick play somewhat different positions. Keegan is a 4 while Patrick is a 3. If Patrick is going to serve as a back-up for Joe Weiskamp while Keegan backs up the 4 position, they both may need some time. I have high hopes for Ulis and Perkins but they do not yet seem quite ready. Maybe before the season is over but not right now.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

First, I think all the emphasis has to be on THIS season. Since Garza will be gone next year, THIS season is our best opportunity to make a mark, to establish a reputation that will serve us well as we go into future seasons. We can worry about next season starting in April.

Patrick is not coming up to Murray's level in any aspect (defense, shooting, rebounding,,,,,,) so any minutes he gets that Murray doesn't get are a net negative. How does it help THIS team to put a net negative on the floor? He may very well develop into a significant contributor but is giving no indication that that is going to happen anytime soon. Bigger guys typically reach their potential later in their careers than guards.

On the other hand, as we head into a tough schedule and tournaments we know the importance of guard play. We also know we have weaknesses there: that there will be situations where better defense is critical, or where more good ball-handling is critical, or..... We are also confident that Ulis or maybe even Perkins can make a positive spot contribution in those situations. Those chances would increase even more if Ulis, for example, were receiving more than only about a third of the PT as Pat.

This seems like a no brainer to me.

I'm not going to "disagree" with you, because we don't know how the season will play out.

But, the flipside of your argument is this - the Hawks have 5 proven guys that can play guard or wing (JBo, Joe, Weezy, CJ and CMac) and they have only 3 guys that can play "big" (Luka, Jack & KM). If I were the coach, and I look down the path of this season when you can have injuries, illness, foul trouble - it would seem to me that we need another bigger guy that can play. Looking at my roster I have Kris Murray and PMac as the next likely guys to fill that spot in the rotation. Fran must think PMac is closer to being the guy than Kris, maybe because it's his son IDK.

I think playing PMac is part of the winning formula for this season. He has to get better, of course, but I think the Hawks are more likely to need him than Ulis.

 

[RomanHawk]

When I said there would be games when a Ulis/Perkens would be critical for defense, I didn't say to wait until 11 seconds are left in OT.

 

[Franisdaman]

Every player that has been thru Iowa under Fran has been "impressive", "spectacular", "outstanding", in practice. Some don't fare so well in games, but thankfully Keegan Murray does.

Come on, man.

You forgot "phenomenal."

 

[Franisdaman]

Plenty of positive things about what Fran has done. However, his pronouncements of player's practice prowess(say that three times fast!) should be taken with a grain of salt.

Keegan is an exception.

just a grain?

 

[youflog1hawk]

Where was Jack the second half?

 

[Roy L Fuchs]

I agree the 9 man rotation is the way to go. I do not agree that Uhlis should be in the rotation. He‘ll be a good one for us but Patrick’s length is more disruptive. He’s also another guy that can grab a few boards which we need. That being said PMAC has been atrocious on zone D and his shooting has been below average.

We have a max of 7 ready to compete at this level. Only one of them is ready to play defense.