A couple things that seem odd (or defy logic)

[turkEhawk]

Just seems odd that more top recruits (top 10) aren’t choosing the Hawks.
with the storied tradition, great fan base and support, etc. can’t understand how we lose out to schools like Mizz, Minn, Wis. Not that it’s a huge number but still it’s a head scratcher
Also, has anybody else noticed the pictures of some of the new guys(Kennedy and Rathjan specifically) Is it me or do they look like they need some serious time in the weight room?
I know they’re great wrestler but seem to need some added muscle
Just bored after a week of no wrestling...

 

[grapplefann]

We can brainstorm some wild guesses. I'm not sure that any of these is right, or even explains what you are talking about, or even if what your are talking about is true, but here goes:

1. Guys like to wrestle in front of the their friends and family. Naturally this will be most likely in their home state. Guys tend to be loyal to their home state, and all the of Iowa's neighboring states have decent to good coaches.
2. Bad "press" in the era of social media. I've had wrestling fans from other schools tell me how crazy our coaches and fans are, and worse. We live at a time when mistaken ideas or partial truths push out legitimate ones, and unsubstantiated rumor is spread around as fact.
3. We take wrestling seriously in Iowa. Our expectation is to win individual and team titles every year, unlike those other schools that you mention. That's a lot to put on 18-yr-olds. We don't recruit guys thinking that their top finish will be to qualify for Nationals. Wrestling at Iowa is not easy, and never has been.
4. Guys want to practice with the best, and we lack enough super-elite coaches at the mid-upper weights right now.
5. Our academic ratings took some slight hits in the last couple of US News & WP rankings. When the Regents are tight-fisted and the state legislature feels threatened by the faculty and students, only bad things can happen to a school's academic reputation.

Don't shoot me if any of these bends anyone's nose the wrong way. They may be way off.

 

[Metuo Accipiter]

We can brainstorm some wild guesses. I'm not sure that any of these is right, or even explains what you are talking about, or even if what your are talking about is true, but here goes:

1. Guys like to wrestle in front of the their friends and family. Naturally this will be most likely in their home state. Guys tend to be loyal to their home state, and all the of Iowa's neighboring states have decent to good coaches.
2. Bad "press" in the era of social media. I've had wrestling fans from other schools tell me how crazy our coaches and fans are, and worse. We live at a time when mistaken ideas or partial truths push out legitimate ones, and unsubstantiated rumor is spread around as fact.
3. We take wrestling seriously in Iowa. Our expectation is to win individual and team titles every year, unlike those other schools that you mention. That's a lot to put on 18-yr-olds. We don't recruit guys thinking that their top finish will be to qualify for Nationals. Wrestling at Iowa is not easy, and never has been.
4. Guys want to practice with the best, and we lack enough super-elite coaches at the mid-upper weights right now.
5. Our academic ratings took some slight hits in the last couple of US News & WP rankings. When the Regents are tight-fisted and the state legislature feels threatened by the faculty and students, only bad things can happen to a school's academic reputation.

Don't shoot me if any of these bends anyone's nose the wrong way. They may be way off.

Where are you reading that Iowa's academic ratings have taken a hit? They appear to be where they've traditionally been over the years.

UI jumps in national university rankings

The UI’s overall rank among public universities in the U.S. News and World Report rankings jumped one spot from last year, according to the 2022 list published Sunday night. While the UI also improved its average first-year retention rate and predicted graduation rate, it dropped in its...

dailyiowan.com

 

[grapplefann]

Yes, they've stayed roughly the same, but I seem to remember them dropping during the Bruce Harreld years. Right now overall, they're behind all other Big Ten schools except Nebraska, not that a ranking like this should mean all that much. As I said, I was brainstorming, and I could be way off the mark.

 

[Scruddy]

Mizzou and Minnesota have done a good job recruiting local in state talent. Mizzou did a good job in landing otoole but had the askren connection helping out. Overall Iowa still has much more national pull but you just can't get everyone.

 

[lookleft goright]

I think people have a preconceived notion of what Iowa is all about before they ever visit. If a coach from NC State, Michigan, Missouri, or ASU or even Virginia Tech calls, the kid would probably say, "Oh, they have a good program, let's check them out." I think when Iowa calls the kid already has an idea what he thinks of Iowa and he is either thrilled or not interested. Just my opinion and guess.

 

[HawkeyePA]

i think we need to focus our recruiting more on the wrestling Schools and training camps more than the individuals....listen when The Hawks recruited well in PA it was because of the Young Guns connection and they went more for the Iowa type kids. I mean Kem Dawg and Murin and Young werent slouches but they certainly werent the biggest recruits in the state Let alone the country. Young was a solid kid from Punxy, Kem was a multi year finalist and 1 time champ and Mad Max won a couple titles but these kids fit the system and when you added a Stud like Spencer Lee into the mix the YG recruits made this team REALLY GOOD again...national Championship Good again. We need to partner with the wrestling schools and programs and get the best we have there to teach these recruits of the future the Iowa tradition is really the BEST choice for them .

 

[texas twister]

Only so much scolly money to go around and some schools can offer bigger rides.

Add Drake to the weight room routine. I think he will be a beast with about 6 more pounds of muscle.

 

[eb05]

Only so much scolly money to go around and some schools can offer bigger rides.

Add Drake to the weight room routine. I think he will be a beast with about 6 more pounds of muscle.

i don't really know but from the outside it looks like iowa intentionally spreads out the money more evenly than most schools (other than psu that is).

 

[el dub]

i think we need to focus our recruiting more on the wrestling Schools and training camps more than the individuals....listen when The Hawks recruited well in PA it was because of the Young Guns connection and they went more for the Iowa type kids. I mean Kem Dawg and Murin and Young werent slouches but they certainly werent the biggest recruits in the state Let alone the country. Young was a solid kid from Punxy, Kem was a multi year finalist and 1 time champ and Mad Max won a couple titles but these kids fit the system and when you added a Stud like Spencer Lee into the mix the YG recruits made this team REALLY GOOD again...national Championship Good again. We need to partner with the wrestling schools and programs and get the best we have there to teach these recruits of the future the Iowa tradition is really the BEST choice for them .

“Fitting the system,” might be an issue, imo. From both sides. And that could preclude a lot of talent from considering the program or being pursued by program.

 

[YoungGun07]

Iowa had some issues in the past with some high talent guys that weren't culture fits in the room, almost lost out on Kem because of this.

When you see highly ranked guys go elsewhere, there is no guarantee that T&T even wanted the guy in the room.

Now, I'm not suggesting Iowa gets everyone they want, rather that some guys that look good to fans, don't look good to the staff.

 

[Grip220]

According to those who know, top recruits have nothing to do with Iowa winning or losing.

 

[WrestleEveryDay]

Mizzou and Minnesota have done a good job recruiting local in state talent. Mizzou did a good job in landing otoole but had the askren connection helping out. Overall Iowa still has much more national pull but you just can't get everyone.

Purely speculation, but why would O'Toole want to go to Iowa when they had Marinelli firmly in the starting line up? Yes, he finished higher than AM both years, but a guy that wants to go start right away might not want to go to Iowa/PSU/etc when the thinking is he'd have to sit for 2 years or more.

 

[UndercoverHawk]

Purely speculation, but why would O'Toole want to go to Iowa when they had Marinelli firmly in the starting line up? Yes, he finished higher than AM both years, but a guy that wants to go start right away might not want to go to Iowa/PSU/etc when the thinking is he'd have to sit for 2 years or more.

Well he’s the same class as PK so same situation as he is in. Also he was a 157 and only wrestled 165 in 2021 because of dirty politics. And I think the plan was for him to shirt until it was a free year. Covid changed a lot of plans.

 

[jrod65]

Purely speculation, but why would O'Toole want to go to Iowa when they had Marinelli firmly in the starting line up? Yes, he finished higher than AM both years, but a guy that wants to go start right away might not want to go to Iowa/PSU/etc when the thinking is he'd have to sit for 2 years or more.

That wouldn't have been an issue at the time of O'Toole's commitment. He committed before his jr year of hs. The pre-Covid timelines would have matched up perfectly with Marinelli graduating and O'Toole taking over after a RS.

This is if you assume that 165 was the target weight for him at that time. Iowa was in the same boat at 57 with Young.

So probably safe to assume that probably wasn't part of O'Toole's thoughts when/if he was considering Iowa.

 

[pumpdog20]

i don't really know but from the outside it looks like iowa intentionally spreads out the money more evenly than most schools (other than psu that is).

I feel this is the bigger issue. Iowa seems to spread out their scholly money more, where others like PSU spend more on champions, as it's been proven 4-5 champs gets it done more often then hoping for 7-8 AAs. I think Tom has kind of admitted this when he said the good ones cost more money. PSU has had some luck getting guys to come in on ROTC money and academic, so it helps to funnel more to where they need it.
Also, wrestling is starting to become a game of haves vs have nots. And if you are elite, you likely had no trouble spending gobs of money globetrotting around the country (if not the world). I think it helps that the east coast talent seemingly has more money? So they don't need to want more from PSU.

 

[Gobblin]

I think people have a preconceived notion of what Iowa is all about before they ever visit. If a coach from NC State, Michigan, Missouri, or ASU or even Virginia Tech calls, the kid would probably say, "Oh, they have a good program, let's check them out." I think when Iowa calls the kid already has an idea what he thinks of Iowa and he is either thrilled or not interested. Just my opinion and guess.

This is why getting kids in for visits is so important. Minds and preconceived notions are changed for the better almost immediately. This can work both ways also. Despite what “haters” will try to have you believe, the perception of the program has changed a lot over the 5-6 years. These athletes and families all talk to each other and have friendships off the mat no matter what program they’re at or committed to.

 

[Hawk_82]

I think people have a preconceived notion of what Iowa is all about before they ever visit. If a coach from NC State, Michigan, Missouri, or ASU or even Virginia Tech calls, the kid would probably say, "Oh, they have a good program, let's check them out." I think when Iowa calls the kid already has an idea what he thinks of Iowa and he is either thrilled or not interested. Just my opinion and guess.

I think this is pretty accurate, right or wrong.

The Brands have a very strong personality. Some might be turned off by them.

I think people also see that we have had tons of injuries and that can be concerning.

Iowa prides themselves on hard work. So you know you will be busting you butt day in and day out. hard work is fine, but when combined with lots of injuries that can be concerning.

The brands have a pushing forward style with lots of hand fighting. This is not attractive to all.

Iowa doesn't seem to game plan for specific top wrestlers. I think brands has talked about this. Saying that iowa does what they do, they dont change their style for an opponent.

Iowa does not have the mental edge. I dont know why, but too many are scared to lose.

Honestly, i think iowa trains too hard leading up to duals and matches. I think the wrestlers would perform better if they were well rested and fresh instead of dog tired before even stepping foot on the mat.

 

[MVPFAN]

I think this is pretty accurate, right or wrong.

The Brands have a very strong personality. Some might be turned off by them.

I think people also see that we have had tons of injuries and that can be concerning.

Iowa prides themselves on hard work. So you know you will be busting you butt day in and day out. hard work is fine, but when combined with lots of injuries that can be concerning.

The brands have a pushing forward style with lots of hand fighting. This is not attractive to all.

Iowa doesn't seem to game plan for specific top wrestlers. I think brands has talked about this. Saying that iowa does what they do, they dont change their style for an opponent.

Iowa does not have the mental edge. I dont know why, but too many are scared to lose.

Honestly, i think iowa trains too hard leading up to duals and matches. I think the wrestlers would perform better if they were well rested and fresh instead of dog tired before even stepping foot on the mat.

There may or may not be validity to some of your points but it's doubtful you are in a position to know.

 

[Gobblin]

I think this is pretty accurate, right or wrong.

The Brands have a very strong personality. Some might be turned off by them.

I think people also see that we have had tons of injuries and that can be concerning.

Iowa prides themselves on hard work. So you know you will be busting you butt day in and day out. hard work is fine, but when combined with lots of injuries that can be concerning.

The brands have a pushing forward style with lots of hand fighting. This is not attractive to all.

Iowa doesn't seem to game plan for specific top wrestlers. I think brands has talked about this. Saying that iowa does what they do, they dont change their style for an opponent.

Iowa does not have the mental edge. I dont know why, but too many are scared to lose.

Honestly, i think iowa trains too hard leading up to duals and matches. I think the wrestlers would perform better if they were well rested and fresh instead of dog tired before even stepping foot on the mat.

You’re clueless based on about 83% of this post.

 

[Hawk_82]

There may or may not be validity to some of your points but it's doubtful you are in a position to know.

And a high school kid making the decision is not in a position to know. Until they are.

 

[Hawk_82]

You’re clueless based on about 83% of this post.

Well, enlighten me since you are such an expert.

 

[dunkej01]

Question. Who from the TnT era of coaching is a wrestling coach at the HS or club level? Gable had guys and it helped to assess talent and guide those with his mentality to IC. But who are the guys that are doing that now, that came from TnT's coaching. Gable still has his guys out there that I presume aid TnT just like they would have Gable in this area, but its been a decade so there has to be guys out there.

Honest question I just dont know.

For the hawks, with SLee most likely coming on staff, it will be helpful to the pipeline to see other guys getting out there kind of carrying the torch.

Current guys like Marinelli and young seem destined to stay close to IC. I could be wrong on that for sure and maybe they could move just far enough away to start their own lives but be connected.

A guy like Max, who probably isnt a FS guy, is someone I could see heading back to PA or anywhere really, to wear his Black and gold proud and coach up some guys that have the Iowa Mindset.

 

[artradley]

Iowa had some issues in the past with some high talent guys that weren't culture fits in the room, almost lost out on Kem because of this.

When you see highly ranked guys go elsewhere, there is no guarantee that T&T even wanted the guy in the room.

Now, I'm not suggesting Iowa gets everyone they want, rather that some guys that look good to fans, don't look good to the staff.

So…Kem didn’t look that good to TnT?

 

[el dub]

So…Kem didn’t look that good to the TnT?

Naw. Sounds like he witnessed a PARTY while visiting and got the vapors.

 

[LaxHawk174]

Question. Who from the TnT era of coaching is a wrestling coach at the HS or club level? Gable had guys and it helped to assess talent and guide those with his mentality to IC. But who are the guys that are doing that now, that came from TnT's coaching. Gable still has his guys out there that I presume aid TnT just like they would have Gable in this area, but its been a decade so there has to be guys out there.

Honest question I just dont know.

For the hawks, with SLee most likely coming on staff, it will be helpful to the pipeline to see other guys getting out there kind of carrying the torch.

Current guys like Marinelli and young seem destined to stay close to IC. I could be wrong on that for sure and maybe they could move just far enough away to start their own lives but be connected.

A guy like Max, who probably isnt a FS guy, is someone I could see heading back to PA or anywhere really, to wear his Black and gold proud and coach up some guys that have the Iowa Mindset.

Topher Carton runs the Eastern Iowa Wrestling Club - according to their website. I know McDonough coached at the EIWC as well for a bit - a few years back.

I think Slaton was also involved with HS/Club level coaching, and may still be, but I'm not sure of the extent.

I think Cash Wilcke is doing some HS coaching. And there are probably others I'm missing. Wouldn't be surprised if Happel is involved with HS/Club coaching at some level.

(Just looked) Apparently there is a 'McDominate Training Center' ran by McDonough, looks to be a Club type training center for the offseason. Carter lists himself as a coach there in his twitter bio, and they just started up practices again.

A good start, but always room for improvement. I'm sure we both want to see Iowa get better, I can already tell you guys are sick of winning.

 

[dunkej01]

Topher Carton runs the Eastern Iowa Wrestling Club - according to their website. I know McDonough coached at the EIWC as well for a bit - a few years back.

I think Slaton was also involved with HS/Club level coaching, and may still be, but I'm not sure of the extent.

I think Cash Wilcke is doing some HS coaching. And there are probably others I'm missing. Wouldn't be surprised if Happel is involved with HS/Club coaching at some level.

(Just looked) Apparently there is a 'McDominate Training Center' ran by McDonough, looks to be a Club type training center for the offseason. Carter lists himself as a coach there in his twitter bio, and they just started up practices again.

A good start, but always room for improvement. I'm sure we both want to see Iowa get better, I can already tell you guys are sick of winning.

It probably won't be the stars of our Fandom that push it. will be the room guys or the blood round guys that keep their fire that push the next generation I think.

I'm not tired of winning but I do enjoy a very healthy rivalry with the exception of scUM football and all things Yukeyes.

 

[HawK + i]

Just seems odd that more top recruits (top 10) aren’t choosing the Hawks.
with the storied tradition, great fan base and support, etc. can’t understand how we lose out to schools like Mizz, Minn, Wis. Not that it’s a huge number but still it’s a head scratcher

If any of these continued to mattered to recruits, PSU would have never elevated to what they are today. I think coaching and program style is the biggest factor, and I would agree that our training "style" just isn't appealing to younger generations, especially if you couple that with the success other programs are having with much different approaches.

 

[Mendoza77]

I think this is pretty accurate, right or wrong.

The Brands have a very strong personality. Some might be turned off by them.

I think people also see that we have had tons of injuries and that can be concerning.

Iowa prides themselves on hard work. So you know you will be busting you butt day in and day out. hard work is fine, but when combined with lots of injuries that can be concerning.

The brands have a pushing forward style with lots of hand fighting. This is not attractive to all.

Iowa doesn't seem to game plan for specific top wrestlers. I think brands has talked about this. Saying that iowa does what they do, they dont change their style for an opponent.

Iowa does not have the mental edge. I dont know why, but too many are scared to lose.

Honestly, i think iowa trains too hard leading up to duals and matches. I think the wrestlers would perform better if they were well rested and fresh instead of dog tired before even stepping foot on the mat.

This is one of the best objective comments I've read in a while.

 

[Sett1997]

If any of these continued to mattered to recruits, PSU would have never elevated to what they are today. I think coaching and program style is the biggest factor, and I would agree that our training "style" just isn't appealing to younger generations, especially if you couple that with the success other programs are having with much different approaches.

Agree Turk, boggles my mind why they aren't coming to us. That said , Hawk I think you are spot on with your analysis.

 

[el dub]

Agree Turk, boggles my mind why they aren't coming to us. That said , Hawk I think you are spot on with your analysis.

My best guess would be that the best wrestlers expect full rides and maybe we don’t handy those out like candy.

But I still contend having top ten to twenty pfp guys on full scholarships and the rest walking on might be a direction to consider.

 

[NCHawk5]

My best guess would be that the best wrestlers expect full rides and maybe we don’t handy those out like candy.

But I still contend having ten pfp guys on full scholarships and the rest walking on might be a direction to consider.

Not a bad idea. How much is tuition now for an out of stater though?

 

[Sett1997]

Not a bad idea. How much is tuition now for an out of stater though?

Looks like around 45k with housing and food.

 

[NCHawk5]

Looks like around 45k with housing and food.

Yikes. That’s a hard sell to get someone to walk on for that. Why is 9.9 the limit anyway?

 

[Sett1997]

Yikes. That’s a hard sell to get someone to walk on for that. Why is 9.9 the limit anyway?

Who knows? NCAA is a cluster.

 

[NCHawk5]

Who knows? NCAA is a cluster.

Idk, 45k a year is absolutely ridiculous. Even at 50% I would have a hard time wanting to commit to that at 19.

 

[Sett1997]

Yikes. That’s a hard sell to get someone to walk on for that. Why is 9.9 the limit anyway?

FBS football is 85, FCS is 63. So in FBS football you can have almost four times the amount required to field a team. In wrestling almost but not enough to field a team. Go figure.
I'm guessing it's about money that football brings in $$$, who would have thought?
I'm shocked!

 

[NCHawk5]

FBS football is 85, FCS is 63. So in FBS football you can have almost four times the amount required to field a team. In wrestling almost but not enough to field a team. Go figure.
I'm guessing it's about money that football brings in $$$, who would have thought?
I'm shocked!

I think title 9 really shakes things up for sports like wrestling that generate a decent amount of cash (at least at Iowa)

 

[Sett1997]

I think title 9 really shakes things up for sports like wrestling that generate a decent amount of cash (at least at Iowa)

Is our wrestling program net positive in cash NC? I would think so but I have no knowledge about the finance end of it. I'm sure 83% of the programs lose their butt but the Hawks are a different animal.

 

[NCHawk5]

Is our wrestling program net positive in cash NC? I would think so but I have no knowledge about the finance end of it. I'm sure 83% of the programs lose their butt but the Hawks are a different animal.

No I’m not talking net positive. I just mean not deep in the red. I don’t believe anything other than mens bball and football generate net gains.