A hypothetical question for gun folk...

[Hawki97]

We've got seemingly a million threads fighting over guns good / guns bad - that's not my question(s). Hypothetically:

Do you think having your child killed at the hand of a school shooter like Newtown or Uvlade would change your thoughts on guns?
Similarly, do you think if you were a first responder or medical person that had to remove the bodies would change your thoughts on guns?
If your child was the one that committed the murders of school children in a school shooting, would it change your thoughts on guns?

I'm not a gun guy. Don't own one, don't think I ever will and am more of a big dog / Louisville Slugger guy when it comes to home protection. But I've often thought through the hypothetical that if I were to actually have an intruder get past those two things and still overpower me in my own home (and live) - would I change my mind and become a gun owner/advocate?

What say you HORT? Can you offer a thoughtful response to these questions over the next sayyyyy ten posts before it devolves into trolls and pissing matches?

 

[Moral]

Louisville Slugger guy

I am more of a Poverty Kid Bunter 500 kind of guy.

 

[Warrior Poet31]

Do you think having your child killed at the hand of a school shooter like Newtown or Uvlade would change your thoughts on guns?

No

do you think if you were a first responder or medical person that had to remove the bodies would change your thoughts on guns?

No

If your child was the one that committed the murders of school children in a school shooting, would it change your thoughts on guns?

No

 

[hydro2.0]

I don’t need any scenario posted to change my stance that I am perfectly fine with starting a discussion on restrictions to own firearms. I understand we can’t ban guns - and I don’t want to- but as the greatest nation on this planet we need to figure something out

 

[BGHAWK]

That didn't take long. Not surprising though.

 

[Hawki97]

That didn't take long. Not surprising though.

So close!!! I should have known better. Silly me.

 

[Hawki97]

No

No

No

That's an answer. One that doesn't make sense to me as a human, but an answer.

 

[NCHawk5]

It seems all or nothing to me. Every regulation we pass can be subverted. Banning all guns is impossible considering how many we have already.

Also not thrilled at the idea of disarming the population. That opens us up to becoming a police state. So… we’re screwed. I guess all in on mental health.

 

[Hawki97]

It seems all or nothing to me. Every regulation we pass can be subverted. Banning all guns is impossible considering how many we have already.

Also not thrilled at the idea of disarming the population. That opens us up to becoming a police state. So… we’re screwed. I guess all in on mental health.

Yeah, definitely talked about ad nauseum in about every other post. Any thoughts on my questions? Or are you not a gun person?

 

[Hawki97]

I don’t need any scenario posted to change my stance that I am perfectly fine with starting a discussion on restrictions to own firearms. I understand we can’t ban guns - and I don’t want to- but as the greatest nation on this planet we need to figure something out

Would you consider yourself a "gun person?"

 

[BondHawk]

It seems all or nothing to me. Every regulation we pass can be subverted. Banning all guns is impossible considering how many we have already.

Also not thrilled at the idea of disarming the population. That opens us up to becoming a police state. So… we’re screwed. I guess all in on mental health.

Just because you can't cure 100% of cancer cases doesn't mean you quit doing cancer research.

"Why bother? Someone, somewhere will die anyway."

 

[NCHawk5]

Would you consider yourself a "gun person?"

Hell no. I don’t own guns.

 

[BGHAWK]

For assault rifle types, age 21 plus back ground checks plus waiting period of 30 days from the time the person applies to but until he/she can actually take possession. I think there has to be a huge effort to get the hand guns off of the streets by at least going after those who are selling them. I don't know how to further solve that problem, but hopefully someone can find a solution. There are shootings here in the Quad Cities pretty much every day, and many times multiple shootings, by young people, multiple gangs, maybe ages 17 to 30s for example.

 

[Hawki97]

Hell no. I don’t own guns.

Than your feelings are not germane to the questions posed.

Damn us HORT! Can't even follow simple instructions and answer a couple questions without going off the reservation. We need some Ritalin or Adderall!

 

[hydro2.0]

Would you consider yourself a "gun person?"

Yes to the extent I grew up with guns, love shooting trap/skeet or at the range but I don’t personally own handguns/rifles. I own a shotgun which I used to shootcompetition in college.

 

[GOHOX69]

This country is chock full of nutters. A gun, for personal protection, is not a bad idea.

 

[HawkNester]

It seems all or nothing to me. Every regulation we pass can be subverted. Banning all guns is impossible considering how many we have already.

Also not thrilled at the idea of disarming the population. That opens us up to becoming a police state. So… we’re screwed. I guess all in on mental health.

PSA: We already live in a police state.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

Although I own several guns, I also don't consider myself a "gun guy", although I suppose some would. "Gun guys" that I know have 10X, or more, the array of weapons that I have and shoot recreationally and even competitively quite often.

It's impossible for me to say exactly how I would react to the tragic loss of a child, etc. But I don't think it would change my stance on guns.

If for instance one of my children was killed in a car wreck, I am pretty sure that I would not give up driving. To me...the gun is a tool, not the real problem.

Now then, does this mean that I oppose every single idea meant to curtail, or eliminate, gun violence? No...in particular, given that way too many of these wackos are young, "loner" type, males...I think there is room to design laws/regulations to lessen that possible angle...without unnecessarily banning guns for all, etc.

I appreciate the sincere tone of your OP...I wish more people would remain rational and open minded to other viewpoints as they try to grapple with this very vexing issue. I understand the emotion, as there is nothing worse than an innocent child being slaughtered for no reason...BUT, the overwrought discourse then does NOTHING to actually help find some sort of a solution(s).

 

[NCHawk5]

PSA: We already live in a police state.

Yeah? Do we? Then how did the last two shootings happen?

 

[HawkNester]

This country is chock full of nutters. A gun, for personal protection, is not a bad idea.

This is why: Our society is a culture of fear mongering. BTW, what's really funny is how a lot of the most toxic males in this country call everyone a snowflake or softy, when they in fact are the biggest snowflakes who hide behind their pew pew pews.

 

[Gonolz]

What the hell is "gun folk" supposed to mean? I own guns. I also am in favor of higher standards and more regulation for gun ownership.

None of your scenarios would change my position because my position is one that makes sense and a balance under which the number of incidents would likely be reduced without forbidding gun ownership.

 

[HawkNester]

Yeah? Do we? Then how did the last two shootings happen?

Good question, you should ask the multiple armed police officers who did nothing for 40 minutes in Texas. BTW, other countries don't require armed guardsmen at schools.

 

[INXS83]

I'd start with 21 year age minimum to purchase guns (unless you are in the military or law enforcement which entails training and personality evaluations). Would not include 18-21 y-o mall cops or security guards without proper training/vetting.

I'm for background checks with clearance necessary before ability to purchase. Once you get clearance, you can buy guns & ammo the same day moving forward until you get arrested, get charged with a felony or are deemed a danger due to mental illness. It's the 21st century. A few days turnaround should be attainable for background checks (which should be run by non-political 3rd parties) . That would help prevent an enraged individual from going to a gun show today and killing the world the next day.

If it's a rifle, is semi-automatic, and a lower caliber (.223 or lower), it should be available for purchase and use by the public. No clips beyond 15 rounds. By comparison, some pistols can hold up to 20 rounds. That's enough. For purpose of this thread, I'm not going to chime in on the higher caliber pistols (9MM, .45 or .50 cal).

Beyond that, "shall not be infringed" applies, IMHO.

 

[HawkNester]

Human brains are still developing into their mid 20's, some longer, some never as seen by some posters on this board. I'd start somewhere in the mid 20's with all the regulations that go into buying a car, licensing, testing, registering. Including liability insurance for each one.

 

[BioHawk]

That's an answer. One that doesn't make sense to me as a human, but an answer.

That's the difference. "As a human". You think the bot would understand empathy?

 

[Hawki97]

Although I own several guns, I also don't consider myself a "gun guy", although I suppose some would. "Gun guys" that I know have 10X, or more, the array of weapons that I have and shoot recreationally and even competitively quite often.

It's impossible for me to say exactly how I would react to the tragic loss of a child, etc. But I don't think it would change my stance on guns.

If for instance one of my children was killed in a car wreck, I am pretty sure that I would not give up driving. To me...the gun is a tool, not the real problem.

Now then, does this mean that I oppose every single idea meant to curtail, or eliminate, gun violence? No...in particular, given that way too many of these wackos are young, "loner" type, males...I think there is room to design laws/regulations to lessen that possible angle...without unnecessarily banning guns for all, etc.

I appreciate the sincere tone of your OP...I wish more people would remain rational and open minded to other viewpoints as they try to grapple with this very vexing issue. I understand the emotion, as there is nothing worse than an innocent child being slaughtered for no reason...BUT, the overwrought discourse then does NOTHING to actually help find some sort of a solution(s).

This is really at the heart of my thoughts on the matter.

As I said, I don't ever want to own a gun - although I'm fine with others owning them. But, if something happened to me where a gun MIGHT have made a difference, would I change my tune? Hard to say because I think it is truly hypothetical until it happens directly to you. As it stands now, I'm not really sympathetic to the gun people messaging and cries of gun control - because it doesn't impact me. Maybe I would change my tune if I switched and a situation that happened to me made me feel the need to have a gun.

My questions above are intended to elicit the same introspection for gun supporters - which most of HORT has shown they can't do. Gold star to you!

 

[NCHawk5]

Good question, you should ask the multiple armed police officers who did nothing for 40 minutes in Texas. BTW, other countries don't require armed guardsmen at schools.

Dawg you can’t move the goalposts, watch me kick a 60 yarder right down the middle, and then pretend you never moved them. May work on your students, not this guy 😉

 

[Hawki97]

What the hell is "gun folk" supposed to mean? I own guns. I also am in favor of higher standards and more regulation for gun ownership.

None of your scenarios would change my position because my position is one that makes sense and a balance under which the number of incidents would likely be reduced without forbidding gun ownership.

Gun folk was meant as a broad term to include casual supporters / owners to nutters and everywhere in between.

Thanks for answering the question though that your thoughts wouldn't change. If it happen directly to me, I can't see how it couldn't possibly change my perspective - but everyone is different.

 

[Hondo_11]

We've got seemingly a million threads fighting over guns good / guns bad - that's not my question(s). Hypothetically:

Do you think having your child killed at the hand of a school shooter like Newtown or Uvlade would change your thoughts on guns?
Similarly, do you think if you were a first responder or medical person that had to remove the bodies would change your thoughts on guns?
If your child was the one that committed the murders of school children in a school shooting, would it change your thoughts on guns?

I'm not a gun guy. Don't own one, don't think I ever will and am more of a big dog / Louisville Slugger guy when it comes to home protection. But I've often thought through the hypothetical that if I were to actually have an intruder get past those two things and still overpower me in my own home (and live) - would I change my mind and become a gun owner/advocate?

What say you HORT? Can you offer a thoughtful response to these questions over the next sayyyyy ten posts before it devolves into trolls and pissing matches?

Will you stop driving if your child dies in a car accident?

 

[Hawki97]

This is teenage girl level reasoning.

Lulz. I'll let you know when I'm even remotely concerned about your perspective wake up warrior.

 

[NCHawk5]

Lulz. I'll let you know when I'm even remotely concerned about your perspective wake up warrior.

Let’s settle this. I want to see some action. Warrior talks a big game. Usually a loud bark means no bite. LFG

 

[Tom Paris]

Although I own several guns, I also don't consider myself a "gun guy", although I suppose some would. "Gun guys" that I know have 10X, or more, the array of weapons that I have and shoot recreationally and even competitively quite often.

It's impossible for me to say exactly how I would react to the tragic loss of a child, etc. But I don't think it would change my stance on guns.

If for instance one of my children was killed in a car wreck, I am pretty sure that I would not give up driving. To me...the gun is a tool, not the real problem.

Now then, does this mean that I oppose every single idea meant to curtail, or eliminate, gun violence? No...in particular, given that way too many of these wackos are young, "loner" type, males...I think there is room to design laws/regulations to lessen that possible angle...without unnecessarily banning guns for all, etc.

I appreciate the sincere tone of your OP...I wish more people would remain rational and open minded to other viewpoints as they try to grapple with this very vexing issue. I understand the emotion, as there is nothing worse than an innocent child being slaughtered for no reason...BUT, the overwrought discourse then does NOTHING to actually help find some sort of a solution(s).

Gotta love it when cars get brought into conversations about guns. It's another one of those things that's part of the script, along with mentioning Chicago.

 

[notlongago]

We've got seemingly a million threads fighting over guns good / guns bad - that's not my question(s). Hypothetically:

Do you think having your child killed at the hand of a school shooter like Newtown or Uvlade would change your thoughts on guns?
Similarly, do you think if you were a first responder or medical person that had to remove the bodies would change your thoughts on guns?
If your child was the one that committed the murders of school children in a school shooting, would it change your thoughts on guns?

I'm not a gun guy. Don't own one, don't think I ever will and am more of a big dog / Louisville Slugger guy when it comes to home protection. But I've often thought through the hypothetical that if I were to actually have an intruder get past those two things and still overpower me in my own home (and live) - would I change my mind and become a gun owner/advocate?

What say you HORT? Can you offer a thoughtful response to these questions over the next sayyyyy ten posts before it devolves into trolls and pissing matches?

No. Because you're addressing the symptom, not the cause.

 

[Warrior Poet31]

Gotta love it when cars get brought into conversations about guns. It's another one of those things that's part of the script, along with mentioning Chicago.

Or rape and incest when talking about abortion.

 

[Hawki97]

Will you stop driving if your child dies in a car accident?

If you look reaaaaallly closely, my questions above weren't about "stopping" anything. They simply ask would you consider changing your thoughts or perspectives if it happened direcly to you?

So, to stay consistent - would I take a step back and look at things if a child died in an accident or if I had to be the one pulling kids out of cars on a daily basis? Yeah, I think I would. Maybe I'd be more active on traffic enforcement. Maybe I'd change my tune on traffic cameras. I don't know.

I get this exercise is really hard for some people.

 

[Warrior Poet31]

Let’s settle this. I want to see some action. Warrior talks a big game. Usually a loud bark means no bite. LFG

🤣 🤣 🤣

 

[ThorneStockton]

This is really at the heart of my thoughts on the matter.

As I said, I don't ever want to own a gun - although I'm fine with others owning them. But, if something happened to me where a gun MIGHT have made a difference, would I change my tune? Hard to say because I think it is truly hypothetical until it happens directly to you. As it stands now, I'm not really sympathetic to the gun people messaging and cries of gun control - because it doesn't impact me. Maybe I would change my tune if I switched and a situation that happened to me made me feel the need to have a gun.

My questions above are intended to elicit the same introspection for gun supporters - which most of HORT has shown they can't do. Gold star to you!

It's fairly straight forward to me. We have lots of gun freedoms, with that comes lots of gun costs. As a society we ask: Is it it worth it?

We do the same for things like a speed limit. We could throw away the limits and have more car/speed freedoms, but we know that comes with a cost.

As a non gun owner, it's really easy to throw away freedoms that you don't utilize to obtain lower costs. It's a no brainer.

Gun owners get put in a tricky position, who would want to lose a freedom that they enjoy? For some it's part of their identity that they cherish. They will also do anything to make the issue not be about the gun, it's mental health, it's video games and movies, it's lack of religion, it's lack of a family unit, it's just a tool, etc.

To some extent it's human nature, but as we've seen around the world, gun culture is unique in this country.

You're asking a interesting thought experiment, but I don't know if you'll get any truly honest answers, how would one really know?

 

[Hawki97]

Gotta love it when cars get brought into conversations about guns. It's another one of those things that's part of the script, along with mentioning Chicago.

No, I'm actually OK with it. @Hondo_11 tried to do the same thing and I gave him a very reasonable response. We'll see if he can adult and do the same.

FINGERS CROSSED!

 

[RileyHawk]

That didn't take long. Not surprising though.

Has to be the answer given by some, otherwise their narrative fails completely.

 

[Hawki97]

It's fairly straight forward to me. We have lots of gun freedoms, with that comes lots of gun costs. As a society we ask: Is it it worth it?

We do the same for things like a speed limit. We could throw away the limits and have more car/speed freedoms, but we know that comes with a cost.

As a non gun owner, it's really easy to throw away freedoms that you don't utilize to obtain lower costs. It's a no brainer.

Gun owners get put in a tricky position, who would want to lose a freedom that they enjoy? For some it's part of their identity that they cherish. They will also do anything to make the issue not be about the gun, it's mental health, it's video games and movies, it's lack of religion, it's lack of a family unit, it's just a tool, etc.

To some extent it's human nature, but as we've seen around the world, gun culture is unique in this country.

You're asking a interesting thought experiment, but I don't know if you'll get any truly honest answers, how would one really know?

Great points and I think you're on to something in your last statement. Regardless of what side you're on - I think to answer definitively yes or no to the questions above would be very challenging. I'd argue it shows a level of extremism to say that catastrophic personal events wouldn't cause you to take pause of your beliefs, but that's another argument for another day. As humans we're really good at looking from the outside and holding on to beliefs, but we can get very passionate when it happens directly to us. So yes, it's a thought exercise...tough for many on HORT but I appreciate your response.