A little generic rebounding thoughts.

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Its the off season....looking at some stats out of boredom. Links lead to NBA career leaders.

The historic vs contemporary rebounding differential is unreal.

The current career rebound leader is Dwight Howard. At his career average he would need another 802 games to catch the career leader. There's a big jump, almost 6000 boards between #2 Bill Russell and #3 Kareem. To catch Kareem for 3rd Howard would need 337 games-doable but unlikely.

Only 2 of the top 10 career leaders even played in this century. Tim Duncan is 6 and Kevin Garnett is 9.

When did rebounding become such a lost art?

 

[NevadaHawk]

I remember back in the Olsen era, 6'4" Clay Hargrave, (former Hawk), lead the B1G in rebounding. Clay was quick off his feet and a great leaper.

 

[Herky T Hawk]

Hard to get rebounds when the shooters are taking fewer yet making more shots. 1965 league fg% was .426 on 99.8 attempts per game with 67.3 rebounds per game. 2019 was .461 on 89.2 shots with 45.2 rebounds per game. Funny thing is that points per game is almost a push, primarily because of the 3pt shot.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html

 

[mtdew_fever]

The other factor is that the misses these days the ball bounces much different. 3 pt shot misses land further away from the hoop, so if a big guy has inside position they might not really have a chance.

This is also the reason why a guy like OKC's Russell Westbrook can get 10 boards a game. 30-40 years ago a guy of his height would have been boxed out.

Hard to get rebounds when the shooters are taking fewer yet making more shots. 1965 league fg% was .426 on 99.8 attempts per game with 67.3 rebounds per game. 2019 was .461 on 89.2 shots with 45.2 rebounds per game. Funny thing is that points per game is almost a push, primarily because of the 3pt shot.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html

 

[Herky T Hawk]

Hard to get rebounds when the shooters are taking fewer yet making more shots. 1965 league fg% was .426 on 99.8 attempts per game with 67.3 rebounds per game. 2019 was .461 on 89.2 shots with 45.2 rebounds per game. Funny thing is that points per game is almost a push, primarily because of the 3pt shot.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html

Forgot to mention, those stats are per team. So in an average game there are 21 fewer shots going up from the floor.

Also, in 1965 they took on average 35.6 fta per team per game at .721. Last season 23.1 at .766. That’s 71 fts vs 46 per game, and the older guys missed more. Yes not every free throw was reboundable, but that does create more opportunities. Hence the 134.6 total rb/g in 1965 versus 90.4 in 2019. 44 more rebounds available in a game to go around, and as someone mentioned those opportunities weren’t bouncing out to the guards very often but instead were gobbled up by the post players.

Looking at these stats shows why Rodman was so amazing even though his raw numbers were so much lower than the old guys. He pulled down all of those boards when there were only around 85 total rebound opportunities per game through his career.

 

[anon_bb9wlf9kj42py]

Good numbers. That was my thoughts - Rebounding isn't a lost art, guys make more shots now on fewer attempts. It's the same in college basketball too.

 

[HawkRugged17]

The other factor is that the misses these days the ball bounces much different. 3 pt shot misses land further away from the hoop, so if a big guy has inside position they might not really have a chance.

This is also the reason why a guy like OKC's Russell Westbrook can get 10 boards a game. 30-40 years ago a guy of his height would have been boxed out.

There's other reasons why Westbrook gets 10 boards a game. Like, um, the OKC big guys letting him get rebounds.

 

[IowaNiceHawk]

I remember back in the Olsen era, 6'4" Clay Hargrave, (former Hawk), lead the B1G in rebounding. Clay was quick off his feet and a great leaper.

Well, the best rebounder ever, at Iowa, would likely be
Reggie Evans, who was only a Hawkeye for 2 years.
Next? Perhaps Kevin Kunnert ?

GO HAWKS !!

 

[Buddehawk]

Rebounding is mostly effort/want to. You rarely see anyone blocking out anymore.

Seems the only guys putting out the effort for the most part are those going for double doubles or triple doubles

Reggie was a different animal. If the ball was loose it was his

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

But you'd think some would come close, particularly given the much longer careers. Look at it this way. Wilt's last year he won the rebounding title for the 11th time at the age of 36, his last season. That was 46 seasons ago. At 18.6 that was the 3rd worst rebounding average of his career (high was 27)

Only one player has reached or exceeded that average, Dennis Rodman in 92. The difference between them was 18.66/18.6 sixth one hundredths. A couple of guys hit 17 a couple of times but its been 46 seasons.

I share the belief that new age basketball does not emphasize rebounding excellence.

 

[Hawksfor3]

Looks like they prefer the ball be in Westbrook's hands going up court.

 

[Herky T Hawk]

But you'd think some would come close, particularly given the much longer careers. Look at it this way. Wilt's last year he won the rebounding title for the 11th time at the age of 36, his last season. That was 46 seasons ago. At 18.6 that was the 3rd worst rebounding average of his career (high was 27)

Only one player has reached or exceeded that average, Dennis Rodman in 92. The difference between them was 18.66/18.6 sixth one hundredths. A couple of guys hit 17 a couple of times but its been 46 seasons.

I share the belief that new age basketball does not emphasize rebounding excellence.

Do you not understand statistics? In Wilt’s record 27 rb/g year (1961), there were 219 fga and 75 fta per game combined. Shooting averages for those were .415 and .735 respectively. That means a lot more missed shots available to get rebounds of. There were 146.5 total rebounds grabbed per game. In Rodman’s record year that you mention there were 87.5 rebounds grabbed per game.

That means that Rodman grabbed roughly 21.3% of all available rebounds in his games that season. Yes that isn’t absolutely accurate, but I’m not going to dig up the numbers for Pistons games that year.

In 1961 Chamberlain grabbed roughly 18.5% of all available rebounds in his games that season. He and others from that era just had more opportunities to rack up raw numbers during his career.

You can’t rebound a shot that falls through the bottom of the net and teams are making only a handful fewer shots per game now while taking a lot fewer attempts per game. Last year’s eFG%, which tries to take into account the value of a 3pt shot, was the highest ever at .524. 1961 was .415. Shooters from the floor outside of the paint are just better now than they were at any point in time in previous history. And shots from inside the 3pt line that aren’t dunks or layups just aren’t that valuable anymore so a lot of 3pt attempts go up which typically rebound long towards guards. And every year since 2012 has been a new record year for most 3pt attempts meaning more of those long rebounds.

I’d be really surprised if we ever see another 18 rb/g season without some rules change to cut down on the number of 3pt shots.

 

[wneff]

Do you not understand statistics? In Wilt’s record 27 rb/g year (1961), there were 219 fga and 75 fta per game combined. Shooting averages for those were .415 and .735 respectively. That means a lot more missed shots available to get rebounds of. There were 146.5 total rebounds grabbed per game. In Rodman’s record year that you mention there were 87.5 rebounds grabbed per game.

That means that Rodman grabbed roughly 21.3% of all available rebounds in his games that season. Yes that isn’t absolutely accurate, but I’m not going to dig up the numbers for Pistons games that year.

In 1961 Chamberlain grabbed roughly 18.5% of all available rebounds in his games that season. He and others from that era just had more opportunities to rack up raw numbers during his career.

You can’t rebound a shot that falls through the bottom of the net and teams are making only a handful fewer shots per game now while taking a lot fewer attempts per game. Last year’s eFG%, which tries to take into account the value of a 3pt shot, was the highest ever at .524. 1961 was .415. Shooters from the floor outside of the paint are just better now than they were at any point in time in previous history. And shots from inside the 3pt line that aren’t dunks or layups just aren’t that valuable anymore so a lot of 3pt attempts go up which typically rebound long towards guards. And every year since 2012 has been a new record year for most 3pt attempts meaning more of those long rebounds.

I’d be really surprised if we ever see another 18 rb/g season without some rules change to cut down on the number of 3pt shots.

Apparently those "new age" millennials just prefer to watch the ball roll out of bounds than rebound it.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/3/7/18253011/wilt-chamberlain-nba-rebounds-record-andre-drummond

 

[Hawk_4shur]

I don't think rebounding is a lost art, nor do I think players of the past worked harder for rebounds. I just think the game has changed and it's harder for an individual player to be dominant on the boards.

The players are spread out more than anytime in history - players have shown that they can make 23 ft shots with regularity if not guarded. These longs shots take funny bounces, so having position may not help. Quickness to the ball is more important than blocking out.

In the past, you had a couple of guys that were 6' 10" or bigger, then a bunch of guys 6' 2" or smaller. Now it seems like everyone is between 6' 5" and 6' 9", and often the 6' 5" guys are great athletes that can jump.

You had a period of time where ever player worked on dunks and there were a lot of poor shooters. Now, most everyone on the floor can shoot. Players are more spread out, boxing out is more difficult.

Basketball is simply a different game now.