A Petition To The NCAA Requesting Changes To The Redshirt Rules For Wrestling

PinDoxRico

HR All-State
Jan 1, 2020
512
1,319
93
39
Mepo
thepindoctors.com

I published a petition to the NCAA requesting that they consider changing the current redshirt rules of NCAA Wrestling to be the same as they are for football… Here is what I wrote to them in my request… If you agree and feel that NCAA Wrestling SHOULD allow an athlete to compete in 4 events (like football) without burning their redshirt, then PLEASE help support this cause by clicking on the link and signing the petition… You could also support this cause by sharing this post in order to attain as many signatures as possible… THANK YOU!!! 💪🏻

****

To whom may concern,

I am writing this letter to bring to your attention something that is currently unfair in NCAA Wrestling and requires immediate attention.

For NCAA football players, an athlete can fully attend classes, practice with the team, and even “suit up” in the team uniform and play up to four games to preserve a year of eligibility. This was implemented, I believe, in 2018 and these changes have since received widespread approval from the athletes, coaches, parents, etc. who were affected by it. Previous to those changes taking place, a player couldn’t participate or “suit up” in one game without “burning” their redshirts.

Meanwhile, the redshirt rules of NCAA Wrestling are the same as the NCAA Football rules were prior to the well-received changes that were made. If a wrestler competes in one event, their redshirt is “burned.” With the Covid epidemic still ever present, it has caused some NCAA Wrestling Coaches to more frequently have to resort to “burning” a wrestler’s redshirt to compete in emergency situations, not only when a starter gets hurt, but when a starter tests positive for Covid as well now, thus resulting in a lost year of eligibility for the non-starter. This is unfair to the athletes, for it causes them to lose a year of eligibility, resulting in a wasted year in terms of meeting their individual goals that they work so hard for. It is unfair to the coaches, for they shouldn’t have to endure the stress of forcing an athlete to sacrifice a year of their eligibility out of necessity due to circumstances that are beyond their control. It is also unfair to the families of the athletes who lose eligibility, for it’s difficult to simultaneously understand the circumstances of the situation and not become anxious, angry or upset for their family member. It is an undue hardship for everyone involved and changing the current wrestling redshirt rules to being the same as the current (and well-received) football redshirt rules would alleviate this hardship entirely for all sides involved.

The NCAA’s mission statement is focused on cultivating an environment that emphasizes academics, fairness and well-being across college sports. I feel that achieving the “fairness” and “well-being” components of the NCAA’s mission statement will be much easier to achieve and maintain if the proposed changes are made to the wrestling redshirt rules as soon as possible considering the unpredictable nature of the Covid epidemic.

We appreciate the NCAA and the opportunities it provides to our nation’s young, aspiring student-athletes. I am confident that you have a mutual appreciation for the student-athletes and coaches as well and with that said, thank you for taking the time to review and give this proposal the consideration and attention it deserves.

-The Wrestling Community
 

TSNPS

Team MVP
Gold Member
Dec 2, 2015
179
132
43
Your heart is in the right place Rico but you probably won’t be getting much traction with this. Also, the first line of your petition is grammatically incorrect. Add an “it” between whom and may.
 

Redm18

All-Conference
Feb 16, 2020
423
634
93
I am a little torn on this one. I like the idea of supporting our team and what the wrestlers want and also I agree that covid probably throws a little bit of wrinkle into things. On the other side though wrestlers do have the chance to wrestle unattached at open tournaments which I think is probably in some ways the equivalent of football players playing in a few games. I also think with the free Covid year a lot of teams are going to have a log jam of guys and I'm ok trying to thin that out a little bit. Also I wonder if some of these guys that are burning shirts are not doing it because they have to but but because they want to. Not everyone wants to be in college for 5+ years especially because each team only gets less than 10 full ride scholarships. College is expense these days.
 

82bordeaux

Team MVP
Nov 19, 2019
180
576
93
Because it’s a plot by the white racism regime trying to keep the brothas down!

Sorry, I’m bored freezing my butt off visiting my kid in PA. Had to amuse myself….
giphy.gif
 
Dec 16, 2015
2,331
7,231
113
I am a little torn on this one. I like the idea of supporting our team and what the wrestlers want and also I agree that covid probably throws a little bit of wrinkle into things. On the other side though wrestlers do have the chance to wrestle unattached at open tournaments which I think is probably in some ways the equivalent of football players playing in a few games. I also think with the free Covid year a lot of teams are going to have a log jam of guys and I'm ok trying to thin that out a little bit. Also I wonder if some of these guys that are burning shirts are not doing it because they have to but but because they want to. Not everyone wants to be in college for 5+ years especially because each team only gets less than 10 full ride scholarships. College is expense these days.
Unattached is not the same. They have to pay their own way, can’t travel with the team, can’t get meals with the team, can’t get coaching from their coaches. They used to not even get challenges. It’s all incredibly dumb.
 

OILCHECKER

HR Heisman
Oct 12, 2001
7,412
4,012
113
Pretty sure fb players can suit up and even travel with their team and still redshirt. Also as mentioned, since wrestlers can compete unattached that sort of makes it harder to argue, IMHO. They would probably need to modify how wrestling unattached counts towards eligibility.
 

Redm18

All-Conference
Feb 16, 2020
423
634
93
Can wrestlers travel and weigh in even and stay in the shirt? I thought physically stepping on the mat burnt the shirt.
 

el dub

HR Legend
Nov 2, 2005
10,099
9,459
113
Because it’s a plot by the white racism regime trying to keep the brothas down!

Sorry, I’m bored freezing my butt off visiting my kid in PA. Had to amuse myself….
The world is strange. I was white until moving to Oregon. Here I’m considered an ethnic minority by most everyone.

Some even use “colorful,” language when passing by. And a few women have flat out told me to piss off because they only date white guys. Lol
 

23 so far

HR Heisman
Mar 24, 2016
9,117
16,572
113
Unattached is not the same. They have to pay their own way, can’t travel with the team, can’t get meals with the team, can’t get coaching from their coaches. They used to not even get challenges. It’s all incredibly dumb.
As little as Starters actually compete anymore, I definitely don't want redshirts taking those spots for 4 events. If you want to let them get a crack at other redshirts or backups with "extra" matches at duals, fine by me (all the while the redshirt stays intact). Then it's not on their dime.

Not sure about most of the non-revenue sports, but the majority of guys that aren't Starters in Football don't get any competition outside of practice, redshirts or not. If I'm not mistaken, you could literally be on a 5 year full ride at Iowa and never play a down of competitive Football against an opponent from another school. But you know that possibility exists when you sign the NLI.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Old_wrestling_fan

ff141

Scout Team
Mar 15, 2017
98
148
33
As little as Starters actually compete anymore, I definitely don't want redshirts taking those spots for 4 events. If you want to let them get a crack at other redshirts or backups with "extra" matches at duals, fine by me (all the while the redshirt stays intact). Then it's not on their dime.

Not sure about most of the non-revenue sports, but the majority of guys that aren't Starters in Football don't get any competition outside of practice, redshirts or not. If I'm not mistaken, you could literally be on a 5 year full ride at Iowa and never play a down of competitive Football against an opponent from another school. But you know that possibility exists when you sign the NLI.
I disagree. I think they should get unlimited matches and still keep there redshirt. I’d prefer getting 4 post seasons in five years. Imagine Spencer or any wrestler on a pitch count or any scenario and being allowed to throw your blue chip high flyers out occasionally. Carver would go nuts seeing any of the freshman out there against top competition.
 

el dub

HR Legend
Nov 2, 2005
10,099
9,459
113
I disagree. I think they should get unlimited matches and still keep there redshirt. I’d prefer getting 4 post seasons in five years. Imagine Spencer or any wrestler on a pitch count or any scenario and being allowed to throw your blue chip high flyers out occasionally. Carver would go nuts seeing any of the freshman out there against top competition.
But. But…. You might break their little spirits that way with losses to top competition.
 

23 so far

HR Heisman
Mar 24, 2016
9,117
16,572
113
I disagree. I think they should get unlimited matches and still keep there redshirt. I’d prefer getting 4 post seasons in five years. Imagine Spencer or any wrestler on a pitch count or any scenario and being allowed to throw your blue chip high flyers out occasionally. Carver would go nuts seeing any of the freshman out there against top competition.
I go nuts seeing Iowa's Starters go out there. That's what I sign up for when I buy the ticket. Wrestling, Football, Basketball, etc.

In a perfect world they'd all get unlimited matches and find the bank account numbers of the Kardashians. The real world doesn't operate that way.
 

23 so far

HR Heisman
Mar 24, 2016
9,117
16,572
113
Because it’s a plot by the white racism regime trying to keep the brothas down!

Sorry, I’m bored freezing my butt off visiting my kid in PA. Had to amuse myself….
You ain't fooling me Coach Phil, we all saw that sweet reversible Iowa jacket you acquired! Ain't nobody keepin' Coach Phil down! Ha! 🙂
 

Old_wrestling_fan

HR Legend
Mar 2, 2009
10,716
10,389
113
Iowa City
As little as Starters actually compete anymore, I definitely don't want redshirts taking those spots for 4 events. If you want to let them get a crack at other redshirts or backups with "extra" matches at duals, fine by me (all the while the redshirt stays intact). Then it's not on their dime.
...
This ^^ captures my concern as well. Even before COVID started wrecking seasons two years ago, the number of matches wrestled by the top guys was roughly half of where it once was. (Didn't look it up to double check, but didn't Barry Davis go 46-0 one year?)

Now...you may get to the national tourney with some guys having wrestled half of that. Meanwhile, I don't hate the idea of some changes to rules to better fit things today. But less actual top flight matches than now...no dice. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 23 so far

23 so far

HR Heisman
Mar 24, 2016
9,117
16,572
113
The world is strange. I was white until moving to Oregon. Here I’m considered an ethnic minority by most everyone.

Some even use “colorful,” language when passing by. And a few women have flat out told me to piss off because they only date white guys. Lol
You should have told them you were from Sheldon and your odds would have went up. 😏
 
  • Like
Reactions: el dub

23 so far

HR Heisman
Mar 24, 2016
9,117
16,572
113
This ^^ captures my concern as well. Even before COVID started wrecking seasons two years ago, the number of matches wrestled by the top guys was roughly half of where it once was. (Didn't look it up to double check, but didn't Barry Davis go 46-0 one year?)

Now...you may get to the national tourney with some guys having wrestled half of that. Meanwhile, I don't hate the idea of some changes to rules to better fit things today. But less actual top flight matches than now...no dice. :)
Barry Davis career record is 162-9-1.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Old_wrestling_fan

Old_wrestling_fan

HR Legend
Mar 2, 2009
10,716
10,389
113
Iowa City
Barry Davis career record is 162-9-1.
So 43 matches per year on average. Solid stuff IMO.

Nowadays, also pre-COVID where everything is jacked up, what is the most matches that a given D1 guy wrestles in a year? 25'ish? 30'ish?

Then, what is the average number? Low twenties would be my guess without looking...or about half of "back in the day".
 

ff141

Scout Team
Mar 15, 2017
98
148
33
I go nuts seeing Iowa's Starters go out there. That's what I sign up for when I buy the ticket. Wrestling, Football, Basketball, etc.

In a perfect world they'd all get unlimited matches and find the bank account numbers of the Kardashians. The real world doesn't operate that way.
I agree but your being shortsighted as the hawks have had nodody redshirting for 4 years that’s beating a starter. I’m sure you preferred the starter at the time over Marinelli, Kemmerer, St John, Sorensen. It makes duals more compelling if you can throw them in the lineup without the consequence of sacrificing the year….it makes wrestling better.
 

GoHawks1996

All-Conference
Feb 17, 2021
483
1,466
93
I go nuts seeing Iowa's Starters go out there. That's what I sign up for when I buy the ticket. Wrestling, Football, Basketball, etc.

In a perfect world they'd all get unlimited matches and find the bank account numbers of the Kardashians. The real world doesn't operate that way.
I think about it this way, we went multiple meets without Spencer (before we knew he was out out), multiple without ADS, Eierman, Bull, and Kem.

Since those guys were gonna be out regardless of the rules, how great would it have been to get to see Ayala, Schriever, Henson, Kennedy, and Swafford thrown out there without a risk to their shirt? Maintains a lot of fan excitement cause you get a glimpse of the future and doesn't hurt anything IMO.
 

ff141

Scout Team
Mar 15, 2017
98
148
33
I think about it this way, we went multiple meets without Spencer (before we knew he was out out), multiple without ADS, Eierman, Bull, and Kem.

Since those guys were gonna be out regardless of the rules, how great would it have been to get to see Ayala, Schriever, Henson, Kennedy, and Swafford thrown out there without a risk to their shirt? Maintains a lot of fan excitement cause you get a glimpse of the future and doesn't hurt anything IMO.
This. And think about next year. Spencer Probly won’t be ready at the beginning of the season. Would your rather see. Ybarra or Ayala/Jeseroga? I know my answer.

This isn’t just about Iowa either. Other teams have quality guys redshirting. I’d rather see them spot start than a forfeit. It’s better for the sport/product.
 

23 so far

HR Heisman
Mar 24, 2016
9,117
16,572
113
This. And think about next year. Spencer Probly won’t be ready at the beginning of the season. Would your rather see. Ybarra or Ayala/Jeseroga? I know my answer.

This isn’t just about Iowa either. Other teams have quality guys redshirting. I’d rather see them spot start than a forfeit. It’s better for the sport/product.
All you gotta do is get the rules changed. Been a lot of that going on lately, so never say never. And just because a rule gets changed, it doesn't automatically make it better in everyone's eyes.

That said, 4 years is a long time. If you're good enough to be a starter you'll get to watch them plenty in that timeframe, when not on pitch counts and such.
 

SPOONER

HR Legend
Gold Member
Jul 15, 2001
26,200
33,376
113
I don’t see a strong purpose especially with the widespread availability of open tournaments.

You’d get my attention with one to end redshirting in all sports. It’s an unnecessary complication, a complex system when simplicity should rule. 5 years. Period. Play some. Play all. No redshirts. No 6th years. 5 and done. So simple and easy.
 

johnyt9

All-Conference
Jun 24, 2020
314
619
93
Signed - although I saw recently where the NCAA denied something like this for Women's basketball
 

PinDoxRico

HR All-State
Jan 1, 2020
512
1,319
93
39
Mepo
thepindoctors.com
444 have signed and it’s still climbing… I guess I don’t even know what the goal number should be, but I’m gonna continue to plug it in to some other outlets/social media.
 

PinDoxRico

HR All-State
Jan 1, 2020
512
1,319
93
39
Mepo
thepindoctors.com
The world is strange. I was white until moving to Oregon. Here I’m considered an ethnic minority by most everyone.

Some even use “colorful,” language when passing by. And a few women have flat out told me to piss off because they only date white guys. Lol
Jeesh! What have some of your pick up lines been?! You should have responded with, “hey now! They say once you go black you never go back, but once you go white?…….. THAT AINT RIGHT!!!”
 
  • Haha
Reactions: el dub

chuck285

HR All-American
Gold Member
Jan 4, 2017
2,602
2,018
113
Your wanting rule changes? Well, wrestling needs to have one to limit PS to so many wrestlers. There is suppose to be 9.9 scholarships but when there is no limits on how many wrestlers are on a team than this is laughable. If you allow a student to compete for a spot on a team then he should have to be given at least a .20 scholarship. And every starter should be required to be on at least .50 scholarship. I don't know for sure about basketball but I'm sure they limit the amount of kids on a team. Why even have 9.9 when it's not enforced per say. Now with NIL you never even have to think about the 9.9. A bunch of BS. I'm sure Iowa and other teams fall into this also but not like good oh Cael..Go ahead and kill me on this. But it's not any different than the old days of Nebby and their black shirts??? JMO Ten starters would equal 5 scholarships and 24 more at .20 would equal 34 total members. But at least the NCAA could keep track of scholarships and enforce them. Oh boy this should cause a lot shit...
Hopefully my math is some what close :)
 

johnyt9

All-Conference
Jun 24, 2020
314
619
93
Your wanting rule changes? Well, wrestling needs to have one to limit PS to so many wrestlers. There is suppose to be 9.9 scholarships but when there is no limits on how many wrestlers are on a team than this is laughable. If you allow a student to compete for a spot on a team then he should have to be given at least a .20 scholarship. And every starter should be required to be on at least .50 scholarship. I don't know for sure about basketball but I'm sure they limit the amount of kids on a team. Why even have 9.9 when it's not enforced per say. Now with NIL you never even have to think about the 9.9. A bunch of BS. I'm sure Iowa and other teams fall into this also but not like good oh Cael..Go ahead and kill me on this. But it's not any different than the old days of Nebby and their black shirts??? JMO Ten starters would equal 5 scholarships and 24 more at .20 would equal 34 total members. But at least the NCAA could keep track of scholarships and enforce them. Oh boy this should cause a lot shit...
Hopefully my math is some what close :)
You want to get rid of Walk ons!? Awful take. If you want to change anything why limit to 9.9 scholarships
 

chuck285

HR All-American
Gold Member
Jan 4, 2017
2,602
2,018
113
You want to get rid of Walk ons!? Awful take. If you want to change anything why limit to 9.9 scholarships
What other college sport has unlimited scholarships? You have to know that PS really doesn't need these 9.9 scholarships. They use to use the NLWC to offset any college debts and now with NIL they don't even have to hid behind the NLWC. JMO
 
  • Haha
Reactions: hlstone

johnyt9

All-Conference
Jun 24, 2020
314
619
93
What other college sport has unlimited scholarships? You have to know that PS really doesn't need these 9.9 scholarships. They use to use the NLWC to offset any college debts and now with NIL they don't even have to hid behind the NLWC. JMO
I dont necessarily think it should be unlimited. I just don't think its a bad thing to give more kids opportunities and get to go to school without worrying about paying for it.

Unlimited scholarships though would help to combat with schools with better NIL opportunities for recruiting purposes
 

grapplefann

HR All-American
Oct 3, 2010
2,672
3,425
113
The world is strange. I was white until moving to Oregon. Here I’m considered an ethnic minority by most everyone.

Some even use “colorful,” language when passing by. And a few women have flat out told me to piss off because they only date white guys. Lol
Any pics of these women? ;)
 
  • Haha
Reactions: el dub

grapplefann

HR All-American
Oct 3, 2010
2,672
3,425
113
What other college sport has unlimited scholarships? You have to know that PS really doesn't need these 9.9 scholarships. They use to use the NLWC to offset any college debts and now with NIL they don't even have to hid behind the NLWC. JMO
If PSU cheats, then catch 'em and punish 'em. If not, then deal with it or do the same.
But never get rid of walk-ons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 23 so far