Achilles Heal in Iowa's 4-3 Defensive Alignment

[DEREKoh2]

I look at this 4-3 alignment today. The 5-2, and Buddy Ryan's 46 Zone are irrelevant with today's offensive alignments. Couldn't keep up. Now the 3-4 is growing in popularity in efforts keep up. With the advent of the RPO, it puts a HELL of a lot of pressure on Iowa's Will Linebacker in a 4-3. We have been fortunate to have some good ones there. Niemann is supposedly more athletic than his brother and the heir apparent. I'm talking base D here, not sub packages. The Will LB is asked to do a lot in Parker's D. They have to play receivers in space on the back side, contain from behind and provide weak side run support. Are we going to 'sub-package' this, or manage this with a base 1 2 down, then sub? Lot's of talk about (around this board) a hybrid at WLB in base packages. I'm curious from you coaches out there what the answer's is here. Bottom line, I am asking whether we should just start grabbing a bunch of 340 lb nose guards and move to a 3-4. Also, what is the downfall of not put DL's in 'down' stance at the point of attack. Why not attack the entire line from a standing positon? The D is not required to have down lineman. From a conceptual standpoint, I think it would confuse teams without showing defensive gap integrity. IMHO.

 

[Dick Rambone]

Iowa with its 4-3 is almost always in the top 25 scoring defenses in the Country Just saying .

 

[redbull55]

defense is not the problem and with Iowa bringing in 6'3-6'4 LB'rs in the mold of Greenway the 4-3 will be even better. S Colbert is now a LB'r, Wade was a RB turned LB the coaches are getting bigger and faster LB'rs.

 

[iowa12]

Iowa with its 4-3 is almost always in the top 25 scoring defenses in the Country Just saying .

Until they play someone not from the midwest. One piece of advice might be instead of recruiting 12 deep in tight ends annually, focus on receivers, qbs, and players that move the needle

 

[redbull55]

Until they play someone not from the midwest

like who. please provide examples.

 

[anon_8rcdnbko1jbe0]

Until they play someone not from the midwest. One piece of advice might be instead of recruiting 12 deep in tight ends annually, focus on receivers, qbs, and players that move the needle

12 deep - annually? Interesting. Want to break down the last three classes that show 12 tight ends in each one for me. Thanks in advance!

 

[H4wkfan4life]

Until they play someone not from the midwest. One piece of advice might be instead of recruiting 12 deep in tight ends annually, focus on receivers, qbs, and players that move the needle

12 ay?
I'll take 1 fant over 12 mediocre WR .
So should we pick up 2 or 3 more QB this year? lol

 

[H4wkfan4life]

like who. please provide examples.

I assume he'll mention stanford and fl.
We were the 3rd/4th best b1g team vs the best pac team.
Fl was a sec runner up and we were probably the 4th/5th best b1g team.
Not to mention both teams basically had home field advantage.
Not exactly even matchups, but yes if we play better teams on the road.....we're probably gonna lose. SHOCKING!

 

[scotthawk1964]

The 3-4 vs the 4-3. Hmm, if one were actually better then the other, all the NFL teams would all be using the 3-4. I don't know the breakdown of teams that use which, but I would bet it would be no more then 50\50. Wisconsin had an advantage I think because they were the only BiG team playing the 3-4, now Nebbie is using it so it is only a matter of time till teams learn what works and what doesn't. I think Iowa abandoned its zone blocking that didn't work against Wisconsin for a straight up man on man against Nebbie, and, although Nebbie's D wasn't very good, Iowa had excellent results. Lets see if that translates to the Bucky game this year.

 

[iahawkeyes17]

Until they play someone not from the midwest. One piece of advice might be instead of recruiting 12 deep in tight ends annually, focus on receivers, qbs, and players that move the needle

You do realize in last 10 years 2 Iowa qbs drafted in stanzi and beathard another transfer to Michigan in rudock cause he was beat out gets drafted. Current qb Stanley has the potential and most would be shocked if he isn’t drafted and is in Mel kipers top 10 non sr qb prospects. So sorry these qbs Iowa is getting aren’t moving the needle enough for you. But then Again why do you care because to quote you from a previous post you stopped watching the “fighting ferentzs” years ago.

 

[Hawkeye_311]

8-15 yard out route is the soft spot. NW and Iowa State under Danny Mac ran 80% of passing plays in that zone. The problem for the offense to attack this area is an accurate QB.

 

[grayhair81]

Until they play someone not from the midwest. One piece of advice might be instead of recruiting 12 deep in tight ends annually, focus on receivers, qbs, and players that move the needle

I believe they have five TEs on scholarship. That isn't many when you consider they run a lot of 2 TE sets. They have a lot more WRs on scholarship than TEs. The issue isn't number of WRs, it is attracting game-changing players at the position.
But to the OP's point, there is merit to the argument of 3-4 vs 4-3 in regard to OLB. Iowa's front seven in general have a lot more gap responsibility than many teams. The D line in particular are restricted by occupying 2 gaps a lot of the time. A prime example of this was Van Ginkel. As great an athlete as he is, he was not a great fit for Iowa and a much better fit for Wisconsin.

 

[3buzzmable]

This is a great question but there is not a correct answer. Every year, college and NFL defenses are playing more sub packages and recruiting/drafting guys who have a very specific skill set. Saban has been very open about this. It’s not as simple as saying we are a 3-4, 4-3, or 4-2-5 team. That looks good in announcing starting lineups but that’s about it. Green Bay and Wisconsin and “3-4 teams” but play a lot of their over/under front out of a 2-4-5. (Looks like a 4-2). Alabama and Georgia are base 3-4 but played a ton of even front last year.

Another way these teams are trying to combat the RPOs is to play a lot of bear front (which is what Wisconsin plays against Iowa on run heavy downs as well) and force the ball to the edge while taking a little burden off of the conflict players. Iowa State did this very successfully later in the year with a 3-3-5.

There is nothing wrong with Iowa’s system and the results under Parker can speak for themselves. Iowa is so well coached and disciplined in what they do, they are very effective. Iowa was so blessed with Ben Niemann, more than the casual fan will give him credit for. I predict he will play in the league for a long time. He had a ton of coverage responsibility from his Leo position, sometimes asked to carry a slot receiver vertically down the field. He also played well at middle backer against Northwestern. To hear Phil say Nick is more athletic than Ben is great news for Hawk fans.

 

[Wasnt-drunk-didnt-troll]

Having receivers capable of getting open within the first 3-4 yards before the blitzing LB can cause havoc will help. Getting to play multiple 3-4 teams a year will help. I also think Brian figured out (neb) that man on man blocking is needed and you cannot always go zone.

 

[NorthDSMHawk]

Until they play someone not from the midwest. One piece of advice might be instead of recruiting 12 deep in tight ends annually, focus on receivers, qbs, and players that move the needle

How the hell have you not been banned yet?

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

This is a great question but there is not a correct answer. Every year, college and NFL defenses are playing more sub packages and recruiting/drafting guys who have a very specific skill set. Saban has been very open about this. It’s not as simple as saying we are a 3-4, 4-3, or 4-2-5 team. That looks good in announcing starting lineups but that’s about it. Green Bay and Wisconsin and “3-4 teams” but play a lot of their over/under front out of a 2-4-5. (Looks like a 4-2). Alabama and Georgia are base 3-4 but played a ton of even front last year.

Another way these teams are trying to combat the RPOs is to play a lot of bear front (which is what Wisconsin plays against Iowa on run heavy downs as well) and force the ball to the edge while taking a little burden off of the conflict players. Iowa State did this very successfully later in the year with a 3-3-5.

There is nothing wrong with Iowa’s system and the results under Parker can speak for themselves. Iowa is so well coached and disciplined in what they do, they are very effective. Iowa was so blessed with Ben Niemann, more than the casual fan will give him credit for. I predict he will play in the league for a long time. He had a ton of coverage responsibility from his Leo position, sometimes asked to carry a slot receiver vertically down the field. He also played well at middle backer against Northwestern. To hear Phil say Nick is more athletic than Ben is great news for Hawk fans.

Great post.

Given the way Iowa uses its LEO, along with how Phil has been "packaging" our DBs ... what Iowa's D is capable of doing CAN be pretty "multiple." If you zone-blitz ... and you have a DE who is capable of dropping back ... then an even-front can very quickly "behave" much more like an odd front. Against run-heavy looks ... our LEO could almost act like another D-lineman ... making our defensive front look more like a 5-2. However, when the guy is lined up more on the slot receiver (particularly with our LEOs who have been able to run) ... then the defensive front ends up looking much more like a 4-2.

Irrespective of the "schematic games" that DCs try to implement ... none of it matters if the players don't know their responsibilities and if the guys cannot execute their responsibilities WELL and with CONSISTENCY. Therein is where Iowa truly seems to excel. Iowa is often capable of playing really solid assignment football ... a tough, physical brand of ball that waits for the first guy to blink. Often, the opponent gets greedy or makes the mistake ... and that leads to the turnovers our D is often so good at acquiring.

 

[bumpstock]

I assume he'll mention stanford and fl.
We were the 3rd/4th best b1g team vs the best pac team.
Fl was a sec runner up and we were probably the 4th/5th best b1g team.
Not to mention both teams basically had home field advantage.
Not exactly even matchups, but yes if we play better teams on the road.....we're probably gonna lose. SHOCKING!

Huh? Stanford would have kicked the crap out of us if the Rose Bowl had been played in Kinnick! We had no answer to their offense ~ schooled.

 

[blhawk]

I assume he'll mention stanford and fl.
We were the 3rd/4th best b1g team vs the best pac team.
Fl was a sec runner up and we were probably the 4th/5th best b1g team.
Not to mention both teams basically had home field advantage.
Not exactly even matchups, but yes if we play better teams on the road.....we're probably gonna lose. SHOCKING!

Don't forget Tennessee but those are some pathetic excuses you have going there. Anyone who was at the Rose Bowl knows Stanford had no real fan advantage. Iowa fans would have been louder if there was anything to cheer about. One thing to lose, another to get totally embarrassed on national TV. Ask OSU. Not trying to bag on the defense when they are usually our strength and offense tends to be our issue but our recent bowl results are what they are.

 

[H4wkfan4life]

Don't forget Tennessee but those are some pathetic excuses you have going there. Anyone who was at the Rose Bowl knows Stanford had no real fan advantage. Iowa fans would have been louder if there was anything to cheer about. One thing to lose, another to get totally embarrassed on national TV. Ask OSU. Not trying to bag on the defense when they are usually our strength and offense tends to be our issue but our recent bowl results are what they are.

Stanford plays there practically every january and you don't call that home advantage? They sure seemed to stay on their feet A LOT better than we did.

 

[H4wkfan4life]

Huh? Stanford would have kicked the crap out of us if the Rose Bowl had been played in Kinnick! We had no answer to their offense ~ schooled.

Do you not recall seeing us sliding all over the field? Not to mention Iowa had ALL the pressure and distractions.
Yes, I agree we still would have lost. How badly, who knows....

 

[bumpstock]

I saw a lot more sliding at the Pinstripe Bowl, but we found a way to win that one.

 

[Hawkdome]

How the hell have you not been banned yet?

The 3-4 vs the 4-3. Hmm, if one were actually better then the other, all the NFL teams would all be using the 3-4. I don't know the breakdown of teams that use which, but I would bet it would be no more then 50\50. Wisconsin had an advantage I think because they were the only BiG team playing the 3-4, now Nebbie is using it so it is only a matter of time till teams learn what works and what doesn't. I think Iowa abandoned its zone blocking that didn't work against Wisconsin for a straight up man on man against Nebbie, and, although Nebbie's D wasn't very good, Iowa had excellent results. Lets see if that translates to the Bucky game this year.

I saw a lot more sliding at the Pinstripe Bowl, but we found a way to win that one.

......

Both teams were sliding at the pinstripe bowl. No bowl game should ever be played there.

 

[Hawkdome]

I think we should run a 4-4-5 base defense and use stealth technology.

 

[no_one_]

Heal? Or heel?
Sorry. I had to do it.

 

[hawkaeg80]

I do wish the defense would be more aggressive. Bend don't brake means your defense is typically out there longer and, hence, the offense is not out as much as it needs to be. This means that the offense needs to be much more efficient and the Hawks usually aren't very efficient.

 

[yiana]

8-15 yard out route is the soft spot. NW and Iowa State under Danny Mac ran 80% of passing plays in that zone. The problem for the offense to attack this area is an accurate QB.

Thanks Steve Deace

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I saw a lot more sliding at the Pinstripe Bowl, but we found a way to win that one.

It was obvious that Iowa did not have the right shoes for the first half of the RB. Pinstripe affected both teams, but Iowa clearly had traction issues to start the game vs Stanford. Multiple big plays broke because a defender tried to change direction to make a tackle and had their feet slip out from under them. I was commenting on it during the game before we knew how bad it was going to turn out.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Until they play someone not from the midwest. One piece of advice might be instead of recruiting 12 deep in tight ends annually, focus on receivers, qbs, and players that move the needle

Lol you're jealous.

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

It was obvious that Iowa did not have the right shoes for the first half of the RB. Pinstripe affected both teams, but Iowa clearly had traction issues to start the game vs Stanford. Multiple big plays broke because a defender tried to change direction to make a tackle and had their feet slip out from under them. I was commenting on it during the game before we knew how bad it was going to turn out.

It didn't help that Lomax was playing hurt (King may have been too) ... that is, in the game against Stanford.

 

[Hawk68]

The only 5-2 defense I have heard about was HF's. It was actually a 3-4 with terrific DE's that could blitz,cover the corner or fall back.

 

[Baseballa33]

I look at this 4-3 alignment today. The 5-2, and Buddy Ryan's 46 Zone are irrelevant with today's offensive alignments. Couldn't keep up. Now the 3-4 is growing in popularity in efforts keep up. With the advent of the RPO, it puts a HELL of a lot of pressure on Iowa's Will Linebacker in a 4-3. We have been fortunate to have some good ones there. Niemann is supposedly more athletic than his brother and the heir apparent. I'm talking base D here, not sub packages. The Will LB is asked to do a lot in Parker's D. They have to play receivers in space on the back side, contain from behind and provide weak side run support. Are we going to 'sub-package' this, or manage this with a base 1 2 down, then sub? Lot's of talk about (around this board) a hybrid at WLB in base packages. I'm curious from you coaches out there what the answer's is here. Bottom line, I am asking whether we should just start grabbing a bunch of 340 lb nose guards and move to a 3-4. Also, what is the downfall of not put DL's in 'down' stance at the point of attack. Why not attack the entire line from a standing positon? The D is not required to have down lineman. From a conceptual standpoint, I think it would confuse teams without showing defensive gap integrity. IMHO.

4-3 is so irrelevant many of the NFL defenses use it.

 

[hawkeye1944]

Huh? Stanford would have kicked the crap out of us if the Rose Bowl had been played in Kinnick! We had no answer to their offense ~ schooled.

And Alabama would have kicked the crap out of Stanford if they had played in any bowl. It's not what type of D is being played as much great players. We can get lucky once in a decade with a great year but year after year we can't recruit like the top 10/20 colleges in America. Mainly population and weather. You could bring in the Alabama coaching staff and Iowa still would not will the National Title in the next 10 years IMO

 

[hawkfeever]

I look at this 4-3 alignment today. The 5-2, and Buddy Ryan's 46 Zone are irrelevant with today's offensive alignments. Couldn't keep up. Now the 3-4 is growing in popularity in efforts keep up. With the advent of the RPO, it puts a HELL of a lot of pressure on Iowa's Will Linebacker in a 4-3. We have been fortunate to have some good ones there. Niemann is supposedly more athletic than his brother and the heir apparent. I'm talking base D here, not sub packages. The Will LB is asked to do a lot in Parker's D. They have to play receivers in space on the back side, contain from behind and provide weak side run support. Are we going to 'sub-package' this, or manage this with a base 1 2 down, then sub? Lot's of talk about (around this board) a hybrid at WLB in base packages. I'm curious from you coaches out there what the answer's is here. Bottom line, I am asking whether we should just start grabbing a bunch of 340 lb nose guards and move to a 3-4. Also, what is the downfall of not put DL's in 'down' stance at the point of attack. Why not attack the entire line from a standing positon? The D is not required to have down lineman. From a conceptual standpoint, I think it would confuse teams without showing defensive gap integrity. IMHO.

The shoe guy has shoes now that cover the Achilles heal so no issues there.

 

[blhawk]

Stanford plays there practically every january and you don't call that home advantage? They sure seemed to stay on their feet A LOT better than we did.

Yeah, that was the only bowl game they played in pasadena in the past four seasons and they didn't play there vs UCLA that season and they had no noticeable advantage from a fan noise standpoint except iowa gave their fans absolutely NOTHING to cheer about. Home field???? Pathetic try. Just like trying to blame the field conditions on a perfect day. Ever think us not staying on our feet might have had something to do with McCafferys speed? And our lack of it? The excuses by homers on this board never cease to amaze me. We have gotten rolled in every decent recent bowl game except hanging close with LSU. Rose Bowl was no outlier. Deal with it.

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

Yeah, that was the only bowl game they played in pasadena in the past four seasons and they didn't play there vs UCLA that season and they had no noticeable advantage from a fan noise standpoint except iowa gave their fans absolutely NOTHING to cheer about. Home field???? Pathetic try. Just like trying to blame the field conditions on a perfect day. Ever think us not staying on our feet might have had something to do with McCafferys speed? And our lack of it? The excuses by homers on this board never cease to amaze me. We have gotten rolled in every decent recent bowl game except hanging close with LSU. Rose Bowl was no outlier. Deal with it.

So Iowa plastered OSU because of our superior team speed? Was Iowa really that much the better team?

Football really can swivel a lot upon motivation and momentum. The Hawks were tremendously deflated following the Michigan State game ... we were pretty beat up too.

In contrast, Stanford's season had been comparatively shakier than ours ... but they finished pretty strong. Heading into the Rose Bowl, most folks were viewing the Hawks as the favorite. You better believe that Stanford viewed that like someone was peeing in their Cheerios.

I honestly believe that the matchup was pretty even between the programs ... but obviously that particular game didn't reflect that fact.

 

[H4wkfan4life]

Yeah, that was the only bowl game they played in pasadena in the past four seasons

Yeah, that was their 3rd rose bowl in 4 years
Get your facts straight.

BTW our O was sliding around too, or is cmac just that good? lol

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

So Iowa plastered OSU because of our superior team speed? Was Iowa really that much the better team?

Football really can swivel a lot upon motivation and momentum. The Hawks were tremendously deflated following the Michigan State game ... we were pretty beat up too.

In contrast, Stanford's season had been comparatively shakier than ours ... but they finished pretty strong. Heading into the Rose Bowl, most folks were viewing the Hawks as the favorite. You better believe that Stanford viewed that like someone was peeing in their Cheerios.

I honestly believe that the matchup was pretty even between the programs ... but obviously that particular game didn't reflect that fact.

Don't go making sense, you'll confuse blhawk. He's smack dab in the middle of a good hate.

 

[sober_teacher]

Yeah, that was their 3rd rose bowl in 4 years
Get your facts straight.

BTW our O was sliding around too, or is cmac just that good? lol

Not to mention that they do play there every other year so while not “home field advantage” level, they are very familiar with the field conditions.

At 100% I think we could have gone toe to toe with them. Obviously that was nowhere near the case.

 

[DEREKoh2]

ok folks. I meant "Achilles Hell" instead of "Heal" I screwed up in my spelling. I'm from Minnesota.