An interesting post I found on The Guillotine

[ichawks]

"PSU's current roster has 9 top ten overall recruits on it.
tOSU is surging with 7 top ten overall on it's roster.
Ok St is staying strong with 6 on it's roster.

Lowly Minnesota (Storley) and Iowa (Evans) have only 1 each. And that's in five years of recruiting."

This is a little more encouraging and tells me Iowa is doing more with less but I have to ask, why?

 

[BIG10MANIAC]

Exactly... This point has been made before. We have a team full of stars but we could use a few "Metcalf" type Superstars.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Shafthawk]

Another question is how do you afford 9 Top Ten recruits on your squad??

 

[woodsiding]

Originally posted by Shafthawk:
Another question is how do you afford 9 Top Ten recruits on your squad??

In-state tuition is a good place to start with psu.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Jackhawk87]

I believe they are able to swing academic scholarships for some of their wrestlers as well - that surely helps out. Not sure if David Taylor was even getting a wrestling scholarship per reports by others. Maybe somebody else more informed on the situation could chip in. Not sure if the available academic scholarship money there is more than most schools or not.

Totally agree that we need to be getting more of the best P4P wrestlers though. Getting Hall and Lee would be a good start.

This post was edited on 3/22 10:53 AM by Jackhawk87

 

[jammenz]

To follow up on my post, notice who makes the finals. We often marvel at an unseeded Moisey, but hardly notice when high school superstars make the finals, as if it to be expected. Tomasello, Stieber, Tshirt, IMar, BoJo, Snyder, Smackintosh, Coon,etc, are highly recruited because they establish franchises. Focusing on the outliers is a way to divert attention from what really matters; getting the Halls and Valencias.

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

Kemerer will be on a full ride. 3/4 academic 1/4 wrestling scholarship. We need more guys like that.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[onlyonenow]

I think we need to reevaluate our recruiting. Because to be blunt what we are doing now is not working very well.

There is no real reason we should NOT be in the hunt for the very best wrestlers there are.

 

[Jerry Callo]

I don't want to go off on a rant here, but . . .

With all due respect to Hawkeye fans - and I am an unabashed Gopher Phan - but I think the post from the Guiillotine Forum makes a good point about the direction of PSU and tOSU (and I would throw in Cornell) in comparison with the Hawkeyes and Gophers.

I think the reason PSU and tOSU are attracting more better recruits than we (Gophers and Hawkeyes) are is due to the coaching and the atmosphere being created by the coaches and the coaching philosophy.

If I had a kid who was a blue chip recruit in wrestling - I would much prefer to see my son at either PSU or tOSU or Cornell, because the programs seem to promote wrestling as a fun sport. There is more camaraderie, and they just seem to enjoy themselves more. Look at who is smiling in team pictures - it aint the Hawkeyes and Gophers. They start out strong but more often than not they peak as Sophomores or Juniors and are mysteriously 2 and out by the time they are seniors - (See Dwieza and Nick Dardanes).

In my opinion, this goes back to the Gable influence - which is stronger in Brands and J Rob than in a Cael Sanderson or a Rob Koll. Until we change that attitude - we will lose out in a lot of recruiting battles for these top kids more and more.

Thats my opinion, but of course I could be wrong.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Can someone clarify how they calculate scholarships? Is it strictly dollar allocation? Or is it if you give an in state recruit 1/2 of in state tuition that is a half ride and if you give an out of state guy 1/2 of out of state tuition it is a half ride so they are the same even though the actual dollars are vastly different? Just curious on how it is done.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Originally posted by Jerry Callo:
I don't want to go off on a rant here, but . . .

With all due respect to Hawkeye fans - and I am an unabashed Gopher Phan - but I think the post from the Guiillotine Forum makes a good point about the direction of PSU and tOSU (and I would throw in Cornell) in comparison with the Hawkeyes and Gophers.

I think the reason PSU and tOSU are attracting more better recruits than we (Gophers and Hawkeyes) are is due to the coaching and the atmosphere being created by the coaches and the coaching philosophy.

If I had a kid who was a blue chip recruit in wrestling - I would much prefer to see my son at either PSU or tOSU or Cornell, because the programs seem to promote wrestling as a fun sport. There is more camaraderie, and they just seem to enjoy themselves more. Look at who is smiling in team pictures - it aint the Hawkeyes and Gophers. They start out strong but more often than not they peak as Sophomores or Juniors and are mysteriously 2 and out by the time they are seniors - (See Dwieza and Nick Dardanes).

In my opinion, this goes back to the Gable influence - which is stronger in Brands and J Rob than in a Cael Sanderson or a Rob Koll. Until we change that attitude - we will lose out in a lot of recruiting battles for these top kids more and more.

Thats my opinion, but of course I could be wrong.

I think your position is based much more in myth than in reality.

I didn't see a lot of PSU or Cornell guys having all kinds of fun this week. I saw tOSU guys having fun -- because they WON THE TITLE. Iowa guys aren't real big on smiling for photos, traditionally, but let there be no doubt that Hawkeyes have a whole lot of fun when they win championships. The Gophers thoroughly enjoyed their title in Iowa City with their 10 AA's. I'll never forget all the fun they had, unfortunately.

My point is that it's easy to have fun when you're winning. PSU clearly enjoyed their run of 4 championships, and they like to play up the "fun factor". Of course they enjoyed it. Who wouldn't? I know which team had more fun at the Nationals Duals as Iowa beat Cornell, and it wasn't Cornell.

I can't speak for Minnesota, but this baloney about Iowa guys not having any fun is way overblown and based mainly on false stereotypes from people who don't know our wrestlers or coaches from their elbow. Iowa's coaches and wrestlers have a lot more fun than the haters want to believe. Iowa has some great young men coming up through the program with others in the wings. They have some great coaches leading them and they have the support of the largest and most passionate fan base in the nation. Sure, some tweaks to the coaching approach might be in order, but those things can be addressed without too much trouble. Overall, I think things are looking up for Iowa wrestling -- not the other way around.

And as for Cornell, they've yet to win a national title under Koll. Yes, they've recruited well, and congrats on that, but I don't see them taking over the top of the heap any time soon, so I'm not really sure why we're lumping them in with PSU and tOSU. And congrats to PSU and tOSU on their recent recruiting and success. Iowa and MN do need to snatch more of those blue-chippers. I'm confident that Iowa will, and I think MN will get their share, too.

The good news for Iowa and MN is that they've managed to do quite well with fewer of the blue-chippers. If they start landing more of them, look out.

This post was edited on 3/22 2:32 PM by WWDMHawkeye

 

[thom67]

1/2 scholie includes 1/2 cost of tuition and room/ board/books whether instate or out of state. Total dolar amount varies depending on how many out of state recruits.

 

[MVPFAN]

I would like us to get at least 1 top 10 overall guy each class, top 5 would be even better. Fosu and psu are getting 2 or even 3 sometimes.

 

[sloehawk]

Originally posted by cidhawkeye:
Can someone clarify how they calculate scholarships? Is it strictly dollar allocation? Or is it if you give an in state recruit 1/2 of in state tuition that is a half ride and if you give an out of state guy 1/2 of out of state tuition it is a half ride so they are the same even though the actual dollars are vastly different? Just curious on how it is done.The highlighted above is the dealio I believe.

You've got 9.9 to give. It's cheaper if all 9.9 go to Iowa kids, purely based on in-state tuition rates. It's more expensive if the 9.9 goes to all out of state kids, but the total dollars spent don't matter (except to the bean counters of course!). At the end of the day it's 9.9 scholarships to give.

The difference comes when you can offer say a 1/4 ride to an in-state guy, that would equate to say a 1/2 ride for an out of state kid, as far as how much money it would save them (don't know the exact dollar figures, sorry). I hope that makes sense, it did to me while I was typing it (which isn't saying much but.............).

 

[SPOONER]

Originally posted by woodsiding:

Originally posted by Shafthawk:
Another question is how do you afford 9 Top Ten recruits on your squad??

In-state tuition is a good place to start with psu.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

That has nothing to do with it. A 1/2 scholarship is a 1/2 scholarship whether in state our out of state.

 

[cidhawkeye]

So there can be some creative financial aid that can take some pressure off the scholarship limits. I know my son qualifies for academic scholarships which means it takes less 'scholarship' money to his free ride at the D2 level so I would sense it's similar.

 

[Baseballa33]

So it appears our football, wrestling, and basketball teams all do a pretty good job of turning less heralded players into good players. Now we just need top recruits on all 3 squads.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[sloehawk]

Originally posted by Baseballa33:
So it appears our football, wrestling, and basketball teams all do a pretty good job of turning less heralded players into good players. Now we just need top recruits on all 3 squads.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Yep. It's not the X's and O's, its the Jimmy's and Joe's!

 

[93hawkeye]

Originally posted by SPOONER:

Originally posted by woodsiding:

Originally posted by Shafthawk:
Another question is how do you afford 9 Top Ten recruits on your squad??

In-state tuition is a good place to start with psu.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

That has nothing to do with it. A 1/2 scholarship is a 1/2 scholarship whether in state our out of state.

I don't follow your logic. If PSU's in state tuition is $18000 and the kid gets 1/2 schollarship, the kid/family pays $9000 per year. If Iowa's out-of-state tuition is up around $28000, and the kid gets 1/2 schollie, the kid/family pays $14000 per year. So when we recruit a Pennsylvania kid, we have that (and distance/increased travel costs) working against us, don't we?

 

[northernboarderhawk]

Originally posted by sloehawk:

Originally posted by cidhawkeye:
Can someone clarify how they calculate scholarships? Is it strictly dollar allocation? Or is it if you give an in state recruit 1/2 of in state tuition that is a half ride and if you give an out of state guy 1/2 of out of state tuition it is a half ride so they are the same even though the actual dollars are vastly different? Just curious on how it is done.

The highlighted above is the dealio I believe.

You've got 9.9 to give. It's cheaper if all 9.9 go to Iowa kids, purely based on in-state tuition rates. It's more expensive if the 9.9 goes to all out of state kids, but the total dollars spent don't matter (except to the bean counters of course!). At the end of the day it's 9.9 scholarships to give.

The difference comes when you can offer say a 1/4 ride to an in-state guy, that would equate to say a 1/2 ride for an out of state kid, as far as how much money it would save them (don't know the exact dollar figures, sorry). I hope that makes sense, it did to me while I was typing it (which isn't saying much but.............).

I do understand what you are saying Sloe, well at least I think I do,.........well I thought I did, anyway it sounds like a good answer to me.

 

[sloehawk]

Originally posted by 93hawkeye:

Originally posted by SPOONER:

Originally posted by woodsiding:

Originally posted by Shafthawk:
Another question is how do you afford 9 Top Ten recruits on your squad??

In-state tuition is a good place to start with psu.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

That has nothing to do with it. A 1/2 scholarship is a 1/2 scholarship whether in state our out of state.

I don't follow your logic. If PSU's in state tuition is $18000 and the kid gets 1/2 schollarship, the kid/family pays $9000 per year. If Iowa's out-of-state tuition is up around $28000, and the kid gets 1/2 schollie, the kid/family pays $14000 per year. So when we recruit a Pennsylvania kid, we have that (and distance/increased travel costs) working against us, don't we?

You're correct. In terms of what saves the Family more money, it is most certainly a factor.

You try to allocate it to get the most out of your 9.9, and still keep the Families happy with the amount they'll have to pay.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

this! I tried to post earlier and screwed it up, but Sloe was right

If in-state tuition at generic State U is 7k and out of state is 28k, the same 1/2 scholarship means instate parents are 3500 out of pocket; out of state parents are out 14k. For well funded programs the extra money isn't an issue, but it is to the parents.

I don't have the info in front of me but I believe those 9 PSU blue chips are: Nico, JG, Zain, Nolf, Altons (x2), Nickal, Nevills and MacIntosh. 6 out of 9 are in state. PA's talent base helps tremendously and offsets Penn State's very high tuition for out of state kids - one of the highest in the country.

Okie State is very cheap for both in and out of state, but OK lacks a great (comparatively) talent base. If OK was even close to the top tier states in talent, they be insanely hard to recruit against financially.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

sloe & co - I found this link

The 1st 2 columns on this site give tuition costs for various schools based on in-state and out-of-state.

My recollections from memory in my other post weren't great - it's OU that's really cheap for out-of-state kids.

But the main point stands - not all 1/2 scholarships are equal as it's the out of pocket costs that really count.

See 1st 2 columns

 

[sloehawk]

Re: sloe & co - I found this link

Originally posted by Chickenman Testa:
The 1st 2 columns on this site give tuition costs for various schools based on in-state and out-of-state.

My recollections from memory in my other post weren't great - it's OU that's really cheap for out-of-state kids.

But the main point stands - not all 1/2 scholarships are equal as it's the out of pocket costs that really count.

And to expand on that further, which may be a rare instance, but I believe at one time recently and maybe still, Minnesota and Wisconsin had a reciprocal agreement that would allow in-state tutition to out of state kids, for those 2 states (don't know if there is some exclusion for athletic participants or not).

There are probably other neighboring states that do this, but how many I have no idea. Sounds like a great idea though. Keep the kids close to home, and save some dough.

 

[Mattski]

Originally posted by MVPFAN:
I would like us to get at least 1 top 10 overall guy each class, top 5 would be even better. Fosu and psu are getting 2 or even 3 sometimes.

This times 100!! We are Iowa for craps sake! We should be landing a top 10 kid every year and it time to throw the damn book out on how "we've always done things" with regards to scholly distribution. Times have changed with recruiting and parity in the sport and top 5 kids aren't coming to Iowa just bc were Iowa and they sure as hell aren't going to pay substantially more to do so. Or keep playing 2nd fiddle and trying to develop 2nd tier guys. And enjoy being runner up.
Posted from Rivals Mobile