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Another unarmed man shot by police in Oklahoma

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HR Legend
Nov 23, 2008
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Caught on dash Camera. So what is HROT's opinion? Legal shoot, or more police over-reach?

OKMULGEE, Okla. (AP) — A man shot dead after being told to leave a flooded area had grabbed a trooper and shoved him to the ground, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol said Monday.


At a news conference, the agency showed a police video in which two men — the Fischer brothers — tramp through water toward a pair of police officers. OHP spokesman Capt. Paul Timmons said Nehemiah Fischer, 35, knocked over one trooper before being shot Friday night.

Fischer's father, J.R. Fischer, told The Associated Press on Monday that the behavior didn't sound like that of his son, who was an assistant pastor at a Tulsa church who studied the Bible daily. The father described his son as "gentle as a dove with people who needed a hand."

"When it came to being a Christian man, he was the real deal," he told The Associated Press Monday in a telephone interview. "He walked the talk."

The other brother, Brandon Fischer, 41, was arrested on complaints of assaulting a police officer and public intoxication. Brandon bonded out of jail around 5:20 p.m., flanked by several people trying to shield him from reporters. He did not respond to questions.

An attorney who appeared at the bond hearing on behalf of the family declined to comment on the case, saying he had only received the information Monday morning.

According to police, the brothers were near a vehicle surrounded by floodwaters in Okmulgee County, about 20 miles south of Tulsa. The troopers told the men to get out of the water, Timmons said.

Before the video was shown to the public, J.R. Fischer said it wasn't clear if his sons knew who had told them to get out of the water.

"If my son would have known that this was an officer, he would have never assaulted him," he said.

But Timmons said the video makes it clear that the troopers identified themselves as the men approached the officers. Only one trooper is visible in the video after the scuffle begins, and his gun is raised.

Timmons said both officers fired their weapons, including Trooper Mark Southall, who had been knocked to the ground. The other officer involved was Trooper Michael Taylor. Both were placed on administrative leave, Timmons said.

One officer has 8 years' experience and the other has 1 year, though Timmons said he wasn't sure which trooper had been with the force longer.

Troopers said they recovered a weapon belonging to Nehemiah Fischer at the scene. J.R. Fischer told the AP that his son had received a .380 handgun for his birthday.

Before the video was shown, Emma Foster, who served as the maid of honor at Nehemiah's wedding, described the victim in an interview with AP as a man who "has never been in a physical fight his entire life."

Link to Video

http://news.yahoo.com/father-son-shot-oklahoma-troopers-not-violent-191625741.html
 
How is a guy unarmed when they recover a .38 that his father confirmed the victim received for his birthday? I don't see the story mentioning a single solitary thing about the victim being unarmed.
 
Tragic...but I've said this so many times the last few years in all instances like this.

Officers tell two guys to get out of the water. They evidently refuse. One guy apparently is packing. One guy apparently shoves an officer down during the process.

Yes, plugging the guy seems excessive...but if the two brothers merely did what the officers told them to do, I doubt anybody winds up dead.

It isn't that hard to figure out. I'm not absolving anything here, but one has to understand how things like this happen and take everything into consideration before pronouncing judgment.

If an officer is pointing a gun at me telling me to do something, call me crazy - but I think I'm going to do what he says to do.

I'm funny that way. I choose life. MY life.
 
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How is a guy unarmed when they recover a .38 that his father confirmed the victim received for his birthday? I don't see the story mentioning a single solitary thing about the victim being unarmed.

Recovered at the scene. Not brandished.
 
This, this right here is the problem. Good grief.
No, your inability to respect authority and follow rules is the problem. I know it's the liberal lack of a brain way of doing things, but in the real world with intelligent, contributing people, you follow the rules you don't die. Good grief.
 
Even you don't believe this, I hope. If you are dumb enough to put your hands on a law enforcement officer, you are dumb enough to catch the dead. EoS.

If you put your hands on anyone that you know has a gun, cop or not, you have to live, or not, with the consequences.
 
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Let's reverse things and say the officers are attempting to help the men when they see one has a weapon and try then begin to try to take weapon and place guys in cuffs... one of them pulls their hands away in protest wanting to know why they are being arrested. One of the officers doesn't like being questioned and upset that the guy pulled hands away... he shoves the guy down to the ground roughly.

If this man rolled over and shot the officer with another weapon he had on him be right because he was shoved? I understand the whole listen to the police part. I also see that in many cases in the media in the past year the one shot wasn't exactly a model citizen. The part I have a problem with is that shooting has become the first reaction. Police the past 5-10 years have become more and more aggressive. Almost like kick ass and then ask questions later when the dust is settled. Every time I see that video of the guy followed into a gas station parking lot, where he gets out of his car and the officer yells to stop and he wants to see his ID... the man turns into car to grab wallet when the officer starts blasting away as the guy flails with his wallet in hand as he was asked for. In seconds this went from something so minor to lucky the guy wasn't killed for nothing by an over aggressive officer.

Just seems that nobody has any respect at all... police nor Joe Public. It's all crazy.
 
No, your inability to respect authority and follow rules is the problem. I know it's the liberal lack of a brain way of doing things, but in the real world with intelligent, contributing people, you follow the rules you don't die. Good grief.
When an armed person assaults a police officer what does any one expect?
 
Recovered at the scene. Not brandished.

Yes, it does not mention anything about that, but as far as I know, we don't know in any fashion where the gun was found...so that's an unknown the story doesn't tell us the full story on yet. I just find it odd, why does an assistant pastor need a gun at least at the scene in all this?

I do have a question though. Yes or no answer only please.

If the guy doesn't knock over a cop and does exactly what the cops asked him to do all along, is the guy alive today?

My answer is "Yes".
 
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Even you don't believe this, I hope. If you are dumb enough to put your hands on a law enforcement officer, you are dumb enough to catch the dead. EoS.

Nope. Even cops don't believe this. They have levels on how they respond to aggressive, threatening or even assaults. Shooting the guy isn't the right response.
 
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If the guy doesn't knock over a cop and does exactly what the cops asked him to do all along, is the guy alive today?

My answer is "Yes".

Agree. Yes.

That would be the case in almost all of the high profile "Death by Cop" stories hitting the headlines today.
 
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How is a guy unarmed when they recover a .38 that his father confirmed the victim received for his birthday? I don't see the story mentioning a single solitary thing about the victim being unarmed.

The guy literally had no arms. He holds his gun with his right foot. Pretty wild actually.
 
What else could we expect when our supposed leader (BHO) along with his worshipping media and administration are portraying to the public that law enforcement is bad and that it is OK to resist them and be disrespectful? That they shouldn't be trusted.
 
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Why is this news? Where's Sharpton and Obama?

Seems like all victims in the past year have been "upstanding, God fearing, honor students" that would never act the way they acted while they were on camera... except they did act that way on camera and were caught.

Funny thing is (like others have said) - if the perps would have just stopped what they were doing and obeyed the LAW there is a 99% chance they would be alive today.. go figure right!
 
So, conservatives generally think that everyone should own a gun and have a permit to carry...but then also think it's justified for the police to shoot anyone that is armed. Ok...
 
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So, conservatives generally think that everyone should own a gun and have a permit to carry...but then also think it's justified for the police to shoot anyone that is armed. Ok...

No mention of this man being armed. Just that a gun was recovered from the scene.

I would guess pistols in glove boxes are a common occurrence in your average Oklahoma pick-up.
 
Caught on dash Camera. So what is HROT's opinion? Legal shoot, or more police over-reach?

OKMULGEE, Okla. (AP) — A man shot dead after being told to leave a flooded area had grabbed a trooper and shoved him to the ground, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol said Monday.


At a news conference, the agency showed a police video in which two men — the Fischer brothers — tramp through water toward a pair of police officers. OHP spokesman Capt. Paul Timmons said Nehemiah Fischer, 35, knocked over one trooper before being shot Friday night.

Fischer's father, J.R. Fischer, told The Associated Press on Monday that the behavior didn't sound like that of his son, who was an assistant pastor at a Tulsa church who studied the Bible daily. The father described his son as "gentle as a dove with people who needed a hand."

"When it came to being a Christian man, he was the real deal," he told The Associated Press Monday in a telephone interview. "He walked the talk."

The other brother, Brandon Fischer, 41, was arrested on complaints of assaulting a police officer and public intoxication. Brandon bonded out of jail around 5:20 p.m., flanked by several people trying to shield him from reporters. He did not respond to questions.

An attorney who appeared at the bond hearing on behalf of the family declined to comment on the case, saying he had only received the information Monday morning.

According to police, the brothers were near a vehicle surrounded by floodwaters in Okmulgee County, about 20 miles south of Tulsa. The troopers told the men to get out of the water, Timmons said.

Before the video was shown to the public, J.R. Fischer said it wasn't clear if his sons knew who had told them to get out of the water.

"If my son would have known that this was an officer, he would have never assaulted him," he said.

But Timmons said the video makes it clear that the troopers identified themselves as the men approached the officers. Only one trooper is visible in the video after the scuffle begins, and his gun is raised.

Timmons said both officers fired their weapons, including Trooper Mark Southall, who had been knocked to the ground. The other officer involved was Trooper Michael Taylor. Both were placed on administrative leave, Timmons said.

One officer has 8 years' experience and the other has 1 year, though Timmons said he wasn't sure which trooper had been with the force longer.

Troopers said they recovered a weapon belonging to Nehemiah Fischer at the scene. J.R. Fischer told the AP that his son had received a .380 handgun for his birthday.

Before the video was shown, Emma Foster, who served as the maid of honor at Nehemiah's wedding, described the victim in an interview with AP as a man who "has never been in a physical fight his entire life."

Link to Video

http://news.yahoo.com/father-son-shot-oklahoma-troopers-not-violent-191625741.html
Once again do what the police say...keep your mouth shut and just move on...what in heaven's name can't people understand about this very simple concept.
 
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Funny this weekend I was talking to a LEO about concealed carry and such - he said "those that go through the class are not the ones I am concerned with."

I obey the laws and guess what - I don't get the dead! I know, I know - surprising right...
 
Has Obama stood up to help matters or make them worse? It seems pretty one sides on what his responses have been. When you comment on behalf of Micheal Brown, but stay silent when cops get shot for no reason, it's pretty obvious he isn't helping relations.
To point fingers and put blame on anyone not at the scene is lazy and disingenuous. I'm pretty sure this guy was not considering Obama's actions the last 6 years when confronting the officer.
 
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Once again do what the police say...keep your mouth shut and just move on...what in heaven's name can't people understand about this very simple concept.

It really is incredible, isn't it? It seems so simple.

I remember back in the early 90's, we were buying a pony keg in a NE Iowa town for a weekend party, and the store there had a hat rack of various novelty caps/hats for sale. One of them read as follows (paraphrasing)...

"The man wearing this cap is a police officer! REMAIN CALM! Sit back, relax, and do everything the nice officer tells you - and everything will turn out just fine!"

We bought that cap for the birthday boy in our group, and he wore it all weekend. We went in town for breakfast everyday, and my friend wore that hat. We had a county cop that was there one day (I knew him well through the years, saw him at the local golf course often...super nice guy) and we chatted with him a bit and he says to my friend "your cap...truer words were never spoken."
 
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It really is incredible, isn't it? It seems so simple.

I remember back in the early 90's, we were buying a pony keg in a NE Iowa town for a weekend party, and the store there had a hat rack of various novelty caps/hats for sale. One of them read as follows (paraphrasing)...

"The man wearing this cap is a police officer! REMAIN CALM! Sit back, relax, and do everything the nice officer tells you - and everything will turn out just fine!"

We bought that cap for the birthday boy in our group, and he wore it all weekend. We went in town for breakfast everyday, and my friend wore that hat. We had a county cop that was there one day (I knew him well through the years, saw him at the local golf course often...super nice guy) and we chatted with him a bit and he says to my friend "your cap...truer words were never spoken."
Bag...20 years ago I was traveling the back roads of West Tennessee on my way from Nashville to Memphis...had eaten at a bbq joint I loved. I was in Haywood Co, TN which is a very remote place. A sheriff's deputy pulled out from nowhere and started to tail me. As I was about to enter the next county he turned on his blue lights and I pulled of the road. I made the mistake instinctively maybe of opening my door and trying to step out of my car. All of a sudden this deputy, who was black by the way, crouches behind his door, pulls out his revolver and orders me to get back in my car or he will shoot me. Scared the crap out of me but I do as he tells me. Turns out he "claims" my car fit the description of a carjacking they had in the area. We got to talking and it turns out he was a distant cousin of Tony Delk. We talk hoops and he apologized for what he puts me through. Never once checked my registration or license. Now I don't know what his motives were...if he had any at all...but I do know this... had I not done what he told me to do I would have been shot and killed...as it turns out I did what was told and lived to fight another day. It is just so simple...
 
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So, conservatives generally think that everyone should own a gun and have a permit to carry...but then also think it's justified for the police to shoot anyone that is armed. Ok...

You're an idiot. The police didn't shoot him because he was or wasn't armed. The man was shot because he attacked a police officer. Once he knocked the cop to the ground, what if the man decides to pick up a rock nearby and start plummeting the officer with it? Ban rocks?

As mentioned before, cops generally aren't concerned with citizens that have gone through the proper channels to obtain a concealed carry permit. You are taught to immediatley acknowledge the presence of your firearm if you are confronted by police with it in your possession. Then it is dealt with and no one catches the dead.
 
Nope. Even cops don't believe this. They have levels on how they respond to aggressive, threatening or even assaults. Shooting the guy isn't the right response.
What is the right response? Once you get knocked down how much further does it have to go before lethal force is an option? How would you defend yourself if you had been knocked down and felt the situation was going to get worse?

If an officer could be 100% sure that all that was going to happen is being pushed down they probably would feel the need to shoot.
 
Funny that the same right wingers that fear government over-reach and support the second amendment as a way to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government are the same people saying 'just do exactly whatever the authorities tell you or they are justified to kill you'.
You're going to be pretty easy to control with that kind of attitude.
 
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So, conservatives generally think that everyone should own a gun and have a permit to carry...but then also think it's justified for the police to shoot anyone that is armed. Ok...

What? If you're trying to develop a false narrative/excuse to blame the cop.....you're failing miserably. Respect others/authority....especially cops...don't listen to Obama/lib politicians.....stop demeaning..... being disrespectful.
 
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Really, this is the problem? More of a problem than 2 guys attacking two cops?

You don't seem to have the ability to separate the important issues.

Yes, that is the problem. When you, the people, believe things like: "Do everything a cop says or expect to die", you set up a system of allowing that to occur.

Let's put it in to a context that you prefer: If society says, "Well, everybody is going to use welfare improperly, just get used to it." Then, logically, that is going to continue to occur. That is the problem.

Sure, you can say, "ITS THE WELFARE CHEATERS THAT ARE THE PROBLEM," but really it isn't, the problem is allowing it to occur.
 
Funny that the same right wingers that fear government over-reach and support the second amendment as a way to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government are the same people saying 'just do exactly whatever the authorities tell you or they are justified to kill you'.
You're going to be pretty easy to control with that kind of attitude.

You're about as dense as that pine tree avatar. Since when is it government overreach to tell someone to get out of dangerous, polluted floodwater? To most people that is common sense. And its not that they didn't listen to the cops that got the guy killed. He attacked the cops and that is what got him killed.
 
Caught on dash Camera. So what is HROT's opinion? Legal shoot, or more police over-reach?

OKMULGEE, Okla. (AP) — A man shot dead after being told to leave a flooded area had grabbed a trooper and shoved him to the ground, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol said Monday.


At a news conference, the agency showed a police video in which two men — the Fischer brothers — tramp through water toward a pair of police officers. OHP spokesman Capt. Paul Timmons said Nehemiah Fischer, 35, knocked over one trooper before being shot Friday night.

Fischer's father, J.R. Fischer, told The Associated Press on Monday that the behavior didn't sound like that of his son, who was an assistant pastor at a Tulsa church who studied the Bible daily. The father described his son as "gentle as a dove with people who needed a hand."

"When it came to being a Christian man, he was the real deal," he told The Associated Press Monday in a telephone interview. "He walked the talk."

The other brother, Brandon Fischer, 41, was arrested on complaints of assaulting a police officer and public intoxication. Brandon bonded out of jail around 5:20 p.m., flanked by several people trying to shield him from reporters. He did not respond to questions.

An attorney who appeared at the bond hearing on behalf of the family declined to comment on the case, saying he had only received the information Monday morning.

According to police, the brothers were near a vehicle surrounded by floodwaters in Okmulgee County, about 20 miles south of Tulsa. The troopers told the men to get out of the water, Timmons said.

Before the video was shown to the public, J.R. Fischer said it wasn't clear if his sons knew who had told them to get out of the water.

"If my son would have known that this was an officer, he would have never assaulted him," he said.

But Timmons said the video makes it clear that the troopers identified themselves as the men approached the officers. Only one trooper is visible in the video after the scuffle begins, and his gun is raised.

Timmons said both officers fired their weapons, including Trooper Mark Southall, who had been knocked to the ground. The other officer involved was Trooper Michael Taylor. Both were placed on administrative leave, Timmons said.

One officer has 8 years' experience and the other has 1 year, though Timmons said he wasn't sure which trooper had been with the force longer.

Troopers said they recovered a weapon belonging to Nehemiah Fischer at the scene. J.R. Fischer told the AP that his son had received a .380 handgun for his birthday.

Before the video was shown, Emma Foster, who served as the maid of honor at Nehemiah's wedding, described the victim in an interview with AP as a man who "has never been in a physical fight his entire life."

Link to Video

http://news.yahoo.com/father-son-shot-oklahoma-troopers-not-violent-191625741.html

Little Bill - "You just shot an unarmed man!!"

William Munny - "Well, he should have armed himself".
 
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Funny that the same right wingers that fear government over-reach and support the second amendment as a way to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government are the same people saying 'just do exactly whatever the authorities tell you or they are justified to kill you'.
You're going to be pretty easy to control with that kind of attitude.

This is precisely what I've never understood. The staunchest anti-federal / anti-authority are the biggest supports of local authority, especially the enforcement officers. Why?
 
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