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Any reasonable Centrists left? Or only Trumpanzees and CHOP supporters?

Like Bernie's Medicare for All that has no price tag or stated method of payment? If its so great...say how it will be paid for and how much it will cost.

Go do some research, bro. There are plenty of studies out there on it, as well as an assload of countries with similar systems that somehow manage. The US is really the one running the experimental system.
 
If the Republican party can put forward a candidate who's pro-choice, leaves his/her religion at home, doesn't cater to the far-right and can maintains\ some semblance of decorum in office, there a good chance that person will get my vote. Let's focus the effort on running the country, not on guns, religion and abortion.
Unfortunately such a candidate wouldn’t even make it to the general.
 
Maybe you will be the one to answer. What is "center?"

Bernie's policies and positions are supported by a majority of people according to polling on each one. Is he "center?" Over in Europe he would probably be defined like that.

The rise of the words center, and moderate have been noticeable the past few years. It is almost like a gaslighting campaign to make people try not to rock the boat.


One of the more common charts I see has four points mapped out for political beliefs with quadrants for each. Right, Left, Authoritarian, libertarian. Center would be when your beliefs map out close to the middle. You may hold (believe it or not) some far left and far right beliefs for example. The average would be in the middle. If you subscribe to every single far left or far right belief then you are solid left or right.

I'm going by memory on charts I've seen but if I recall correctly, this is more or less how they mapped.

Biden - toward center in authoritarian/left quadrant (few squares from center)
Obama - dot was almost on top of Biden; they are similar
Bernie - way left
Warren - way left
Trump - way right and far into authoritarian quadrant (near upper right of authoritarian quadrant)
Bush Jr - just right of center and in lower left of authoritarian quadrant
Bill Clinton - slightly more right and authoritarian than Obama/Biden but dots were very close

I've seen many versions of those charts so it's not like they all nailed the definitions but they attempt to take all of their reported beliefs and map out where they land.

Pretty much any candidate is always viewed as extreme left or right by the opposite side. e.g. Joe Biden is a democrat so therefore he is a radical leftist.

I'm putting these political belief descriptions out there as an example. They are far from complete and the accuracy can easily be debated so factor that in.


Left Wing

Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy. It typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished.

Right Wing

Right-wing politics holds the view that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable, typically supporting this position on the basis of natural law, economics, or tradition. Hierarchy and inequality may be viewed as natural results of traditional social differences or the competition in market economies. The term right-wing can generally refer to "the conservative or reactionary section of a political party or system".

Authoritarian

Authoritarianism is a form of government characterized by strong central power and limited political freedoms. Political scientists have created many typologies describing variations of authoritarian forms of government. Authoritarian regimes may be either autocratic or oligarchic in nature, and may be based upon the rule of a party or the military.

Libertarian

Libertarianism, or libertarism, is a political philosophy and movement that upholds liberty as a core principle. Libertarians seek to maximize political freedom and autonomy, emphasizing individualism, freedom of choice and voluntary association. Libertarians share a skepticism of authority and state power, but they diverge on the scope of their opposition to existing economic and political systems. Various schools of libertarian thought offer a range of views regarding the legitimate functions of state and private power, often calling for the restriction or dissolution of coercive social institutions. Different categorizations have been used to distinguish various forms of libertarianism. This is done to distinguish libertarian views on the nature of property and capital, usually along left–right or socialist–capitalist lines.
 
Go do some research, bro. There are plenty of studies out there on it, as well as an assload of countries with similar systems that somehow manage. The US is really the one running the experimental system.

Then why be coy about the details? Say exactly how much it will cost, how it will be paid for.
 
No:

A creature's general moral and personal attitudes are represented by its alignment: lawful good, neutral good, chaotic good, lawful neutral, neutral, chaotic neutral, lawful evil, neutral evil, or chaotic evil.

Alignment is a tool for developing your character's identity. It is not a straitjacket for restricting your character. Each alignment represents a broad range of personality types or personal philosophies, so two characters of the same alignment can still be quite different from each other. In addition, few people are completely consistent.

Lawful Good, "Crusader"
A lawful good character acts as a good person is expected or required to act. He combines a commitment to oppose evil with the discipline to fight relentlessly. He tells the truth, keeps his word, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice. A lawful good character hates to see the guilty go unpunished.

Lawful good is the best alignment you can be because it combines honor and compassion.

Lawful good can be a dangerous alignment when it restricts freedom and criminalizes self-interest.

Neutral Good, "Benefactor"
A neutral good character does the best that a good person can do. He is devoted to helping others. He works with kings and magistrates but does not feel beholden to them.

Neutral good is the best alignment you can be because it means doing what is good without bias for or against order.

Neutral good can be a dangerous alignment when it advances mediocrity by limiting the actions of the truly capable.

Chaotic Good, "Rebel"
A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he's kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society.

Chaotic good is the best alignment you can be because it combines a good heart with a free spirit.

Chaotic good can be a dangerous alignment when it disrupts the order of society and punishes those who do well for themselves.

Lawful Neutral, "Judge"
A lawful neutral character acts as law, tradition, or a personal code directs her. Order and organization are paramount to her. She may believe in personal order and live by a code or standard, or she may believe in order for all and favor a strong, organized government.

Lawful neutral is the best alignment you can be because it means you are reliable and honorable without being a zealot.

Lawful neutral can be a dangerous alignment when it seeks to eliminate all freedom, choice, and diversity in society.

Neutral, "Undecided"
A neutral character does what seems to be a good idea. She doesn't feel strongly one way or the other when it comes to good vs. evil or law vs. chaos. Most neutral characters exhibit a lack of conviction or bias rather than a commitment to neutrality. Such a character thinks of good as better than evil-after all, she would rather have good neighbors and rulers than evil ones. Still, she's not personally committed to upholding good in any abstract or universal way.

Some neutral characters, on the other hand, commit themselves philosophically to neutrality. They see good, evil, law, and chaos as prejudices and dangerous extremes. They advocate the middle way of neutrality as the best, most balanced road in the long run.

Neutral is the best alignment you can be because it means you act naturally, without prejudice or compulsion.

Neutral can be a dangerous alignment when it represents apathy, indifference, and a lack of conviction.

Chaotic Neutral, "Free Spirit"
A chaotic neutral character follows his whims. He is an individualist first and last. He values his own liberty but doesn't strive to protect others' freedom. He avoids authority, resents restrictions, and challenges traditions. A chaotic neutral character does not intentionally disrupt organizations as part of a campaign of anarchy. To do so, he would have to be motivated either by good (and a desire to liberate others) or evil (and a desire to make those different from himself suffer). A chaotic neutral character may be unpredictable, but his behavior is not totally random. He is not as likely to jump off a bridge as to cross it.

Chaotic neutral is the best alignment you can be because it represents true freedom from both society's restrictions and a do-gooder's zeal.

Chaotic neutral can be a dangerous alignment when it seeks to eliminate all authority, harmony, and order in society.

Lawful Evil, "Dominator"
A lawful evil villain methodically takes what he wants within the limits of his code of conduct without regard for whom it hurts. He cares about tradition, loyalty, and order but not about freedom, dignity, or life. He plays by the rules but without mercy or compassion. He is comfortable in a hierarchy and would like to rule, but is willing to serve. He condemns others not according to their actions but according to race, religion, homeland, or social rank. He is loath to break laws or promises.

This reluctance comes partly from his nature and partly because he depends on order to protect himself from those who oppose him on moral grounds. Some lawful evil villains have particular taboos, such as not killing in cold blood (but having underlings do it) or not letting children come to harm (if it can be helped). They imagine that these compunctions put them above unprincipled villains.

Some lawful evil people and creatures commit themselves to evil with a zeal like that of a crusader committed to good. Beyond being willing to hurt others for their own ends, they take pleasure in spreading evil as an end unto itself. They may also see doing evil as part of a duty to an evil deity or master.

Lawful evil is sometimes called "diabolical," because devils are the epitome of lawful evil.

Lawful evil creatures consider their alignment to be the best because it combines honor with a dedicated self-interest.

Lawful evil is the most dangerous alignment because it represents methodical, intentional, and frequently successful evil.

Neutral Evil, "Malefactor"
A neutral evil villain does whatever she can get away with. She is out for herself, pure and simple. She sheds no tears for those she kills, whether for profit, sport, or convenience. She has no love of order and holds no illusion that following laws, traditions, or codes would make her any better or more noble. On the other hand, she doesn't have the restless nature or love of conflict that a chaotic evil villain has.

Some neutral evil villains hold up evil as an ideal, committing evil for its own sake. Most often, such villains are devoted to evil deities or secret societies.

Neutral evil beings consider their alignment to be the best because they can advance themselves without regard for others.

Neutral evil is the most dangerous alignment because it represents pure evil without honor and without variation.

Chaotic Evil, "Destroyer"
A chaotic evil character does whatever his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is hot-tempered, vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal. If he is committed to the spread of evil and chaos, he is even worse. Thankfully, his plans are haphazard, and any groups he joins or forms are poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him.

Chaotic evil is sometimes called "demonic" because demons are the epitome of chaotic evil.

Chaotic evil beings believe their alignment is the best because it combines self-interest and pure freedom.

Chaotic evil is the most dangerous alignment because it represents the destruction not only of beauty and life but also of the order on which beauty and life depend.
 
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One of the more common charts I see has four points mapped out for political beliefs with quadrants for each. Right, Left, Authoritarian, libertarian. Center would be when your beliefs map out close to the middle. You may hold (believe it or not) some far left and far right beliefs for example. The average would be in the middle. If you subscribe to every single far left or far right belief then you are solid left or right.

I'm going by memory on charts I've seen but if I recall correctly, this is more or less how they mapped.

Biden - toward center in authoritarian/left quadrant (few squares from center)
Obama - dot was almost on top of Biden; they are similar
Bernie - way left
Warren - way left
Trump - way right and far into authoritarian quadrant (near upper right of authoritarian quadrant)
Bush Jr - just right of center and in lower left of authoritarian quadrant
Bill Clinton - slightly more right and authoritarian than Obama/Biden but dots were very close

I've seen many versions of those charts so it's not like they all nailed the definitions but they attempt to take all of their reported beliefs and map out where they land.

Pretty much any candidate is always viewed as extreme left or right by the opposite side. e.g. Joe Biden is a democrat so therefore he is a radical leftist.

I'm putting these political belief descriptions out there as an example. They are far from complete and the accuracy can easily be debated so factor that in.


Left Wing

Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy. It typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished.

Right Wing

Right-wing politics holds the view that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable, typically supporting this position on the basis of natural law, economics, or tradition. Hierarchy and inequality may be viewed as natural results of traditional social differences or the competition in market economies. The term right-wing can generally refer to "the conservative or reactionary section of a political party or system".

Authoritarian

Authoritarianism is a form of government characterized by strong central power and limited political freedoms. Political scientists have created many typologies describing variations of authoritarian forms of government. Authoritarian regimes may be either autocratic or oligarchic in nature, and may be based upon the rule of a party or the military.

Libertarian

Libertarianism, or libertarism, is a political philosophy and movement that upholds liberty as a core principle. Libertarians seek to maximize political freedom and autonomy, emphasizing individualism, freedom of choice and voluntary association. Libertarians share a skepticism of authority and state power, but they diverge on the scope of their opposition to existing economic and political systems. Various schools of libertarian thought offer a range of views regarding the legitimate functions of state and private power, often calling for the restriction or dissolution of coercive social institutions. Different categorizations have been used to distinguish various forms of libertarianism. This is done to distinguish libertarian views on the nature of property and capital, usually along left–right or socialist–capitalist lines.

Im familiar with political compass. In that one all of the establishment democrats are to the right, and Bernie is isn't that far off the center compared to HRC or Biden. When comparing right and left. If I remember correctly Warren was the closest to center and Tulsi was the most left.

However, if you fight for the center of those charts between establishment democrats and republicans you are battling to be in the middle of right authoritarian as it relates to those politicians.
 
Then why be coy about the details? Say exactly how much it will cost, how it will be paid for.

Really? This effing guy. Because I hardly have time to do homework for you. Go get some yourself in between getting triggered over CHOP and divorce courts.
 
Go do some research, bro. There are plenty of studies out there on it, as well as an assload of countries with similar systems that somehow manage. The US is really the one running the experimental system.
I don’t think his commitment to being emotionally vulnerable will allow him to actually act on such a recommendation.
 
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Really? This effing guy. Because I hardly have time to do homework for you. Go get some yourself in between getting triggered over CHOP and divorce courts.

You dont have to do any homework, because there never was a real plan released with any sort of pro-forma.

Public policy without any sort of financial analysis. That is just top notch stuff.

Rudy loves to say I am emotional yet you push forward something with no numbers or logistical plan with an entirely emotional argument.
 
You dont have to do any homework, because there never was a real plan released with any sort of pro-forma.

Public policy without any sort of financial analysis. That is just top notch stuff.

Rudy loves to say I am emotional yet you push forward something with no numbers or logistical plan with an entirely emotional argument.

Sorry I got so emotional.
 
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We know Trump is a lazy, corrupt, self-serving, race-baiting, anti-science ignoramus who’s been in over his head for nearly four years...and still some people are more concerned about what kind of president Biden might be?

have you seen what the left represents the past few weeks?
 
Chaotic Evil, "Destroyer"
A chaotic evil character does whatever his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is hot-tempered, vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal. If he is committed to the spread of evil and chaos, he is even worse. Thankfully, his plans are haphazard, and any groups he joins or forms are poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him.

Chaotic evil is sometimes called "demonic" because demons are the epitome of chaotic evil.

Chaotic evil beings believe their alignment is the best because it combines self-interest and pure freedom.

Chaotic evil is the most dangerous alignment because it represents the destruction not only of beauty and life but also of the order on which beauty and life depend.


And this describes Trump perfectly.
 
have you seen what the left represents the past few weeks?
Yes.

I don’t agree with the destruction and vandalism. I don’t think Biden does either. Sorry if I’m not terrified of BLM or AOC or Nancy Pelosi. I must not watch enough FOXNews.

Trump and his enablers are destroying this country and must be voted out of office. No other way to put it.
 
Yes.

I don’t agree with the destruction and vandalism. I don’t think Biden does either. Sorry if I’m not terrified of BLM or AOC or Nancy Pelosi. I must not watch enough FOXNews.

Trump and his enablers are destroying this country and must be voted out of office. No other way to put it.

Didn't you see Biden and Pelosi out there setting cars on fire and smashing rocks through windows? Bernie was hanging from the top of a statue trying to bring it down.
 
Cannot keep it in Trump's hands. He's a total disaster, to use one of his favorite phrases. "The woke" might be bad, but that's an unknown at this point. We have 3+ years of evidence that Trump has no idea what he's doing and walking over the Constitution on his way to the first tee.
Ok, I want to agree with you. But I will say that 3+ years into Trump and we're still standing. It's the whack jobs on the left that have been tearing the country apart the last month+. There is no way, no chance in hell I am putting Biden in charge because he will just appease and give into the extreme mob of the Democrat party. If he wants to win my vote he needs to start speaking out against the craziness going on and beat back the leftists in his party. Otherwise, I'll stick with the devil I know.
 
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We already know Trump is an evil, amoral person, and the worst president in our history. He's only going to get worse.

Biden can only be better.

Yeah. But that is a low low bar.

Now if Biden rounds up Twitter people and executes them, I am all for that.
 
Ok, I want to agree with you. But I will say that 3+ years into Trump and we're still standing. It's the whack jobs on the left that have been tearing the country apart the last month+. There is no way, no chance in hell I am putting Biden in charge because he will just appease and give into the extreme mob of the Democrat party. If he wants to win my vote he needs to start speaking out against the craziness going on and beat back the leftists in his party. Otherwise, I'll stick with the devil I know.
Very stupid to choose Trump; it's un-American. We already know Trump is the worst president in our history and will only get worse. So, who in his or her right mind would want to continue on this path?

Biden, even if comatose, would be better than Trump.
 
Anyone sane left? I can't stand Trump, want him gone with every fiber of my body, but turning it over to the woke? What a damn disaster.


The options are actually worse than 2016, which is difficult to believe. The far left AND right are destroying this country.
 
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Ok, I want to agree with you. But I will say that 3+ years into Trump and we're still standing. It's the whack jobs on the left that have been tearing the country apart the last month+. There is no way, no chance in hell I am putting Biden in charge because he will just appease and give into the extreme mob of the Democrat party. If he wants to win my vote he needs to start speaking out against the craziness going on and beat back the leftists in his party. Otherwise, I'll stick with the devil I know.
The last month bothers you? For starters, what about 3.5 years of:

The corruption?
The laziness?
The ignorance?
The lies?
The misogyny?
Seeking foreign interference in elections?
Cheering on white nationalists?
Hundreds of days of vacation?
Trampling on the First Amendment?
Misleading the country on COVID?
Firing dissenters?

The list is endless...
 
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The last month bothers you? For starters, what about 3.5 years of:

The corruption?
The laziness?
The ignorance?
The lies?
The misogyny?
Seeking foreign interference in elections?
Cheering on white nationalists?
Hundreds of days of vacation?
Trampling on the First Amendment?
Misleading the country on COVID?
Firing dissenters?

The list is endless...
When I'm watching cities burn, looting and rioting in the streets, and extreme whack jobs overrun New York City Hall, yeah, that bothers me. The Democrats answer is to give into these people.

Like I said, if Biden comes out and denounces the leftists in his party he'd earn my vote.
 
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The last month bothers you? For starters, what about 3.5 years of:

The corruption?
The laziness?
The ignorance?
The lies?
The misogyny?
Seeking foreign interference in elections?
Cheering on white nationalists?
Hundreds of days of vacation?
Trampling on the First Amendment?
Misleading the country on COVID?
Firing dissenters?

The list is endless...

the defund the police,
support Iran over the United States
the violence,
the looting,
suppression of free speech
the woke culture
the cancel culture
the hate for this country
the hate for the flag and what it stands for
the support for antifa
the support for systemic racism
the shaming of Abraham Lincoln
wanting to remove mt rushmore
the support of socialist policies in this country

The list is endless
 
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the defund the police,
support Iran over the United States
the violence,
the looting,
suppression of free speech
the woke culture
the cancel culture
the hate for this country
the hate for the flag and what it stands for
the support for antifa
the support for systemic racism
the shaming of Abraham Lincoln
wanting to remove mt rushmore
the support of socialist policies in this country

The list is endless

Biden did all that?
 
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the defund the police,
support Iran over the United States
the violence,
the looting,
suppression of free speech
the woke culture
the cancel culture
the hate for this country
the hate for the flag and what it stands for
the support for antifa
the support for systemic racism
the shaming of Abraham Lincoln
wanting to remove mt rushmore
the support of socialist policies in this country

The list is endless


Are those the lyrics to a Toby Keith song?
 
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When I'm watching cities burn, looting and rioting in the streets, and extreme whack jobs overrun New York City Hall, yeah, that bothers me. The Democrats answer is to give into these people.

Like I said, if Biden comes out and denounces the leftists in his party he'd earn my vote.

Do you think Trump could’ve possibly exhibited leadership and helped calm tensions in some way?
 
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When I'm watching cities burn, looting and rioting in the streets, and extreme whack jobs overrun New York City Hall, yeah, that bothers me. The Democrats answer is to give into these people.

Like I said, if Biden comes out and denounces the leftists in his party he'd earn my vote.

This all happened with Trump as President. What makes you think it would get better with another four years of that bigoted asshole?

The best thing for the entire planet would be for Trump to exit it.
 
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This all happened with Trump as President. What makes you think it would get better with another four years of that bigoted asshole?

The best thing for the entire planet would be for Trump to exit it.


Because none of this happened under Obama
 
Who do you think is going to push their policies and agenda when Biden is no longer able? The DNC, the same party that thinks Mount Rushmore is racist
Says the supporter of Putin lover Trump who fires IG after IG, sues and blocks oversight after oversight. The corruption is so numerous and so in plain sight. The dumb**** is still trying to sue his niece from preventing her book which will show further how much of a pile of shit Trump is. You cannot be taken seriously.
 
Says the supporter of Putin lover Trump who fires IG after IG, sues and blocks oversight after oversight. The corruption is so numerous and so in plain sight. The dumb**** is still trying to sue his niece from preventing her book which will show further how much of a pile of shit Trump is. You cannot be taken seriously.

Yeah, but the Dems are persecuting a stone. Totally offsets everything 45* has done.
 
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Yeah, but the Dems are persecuting a stone. Totally offsets everything 45* has done.
I've noticed Dumb**** Trump is all in on protecting those Confederate monuments, he brings nothing else to the table but keeping his bigoted followers happy with bullshit like this while the Republic burns. **** this shit.
 
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It's like you all forgot who OP is just because he updated his avatar. He's the poster who thinks all of life's evils are due to women. Treat him like the angry drunk he is.
 
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