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Anybody watch the History Channel special on Alcatraz?

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May 12, 2009
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Wow. Through a series of events and the family finally cooperating, they proved that John and Clarence Anglin survived the escape from Alcatraz. It was amazing quite frankly.

Didn't give any evidence about Frank Morris though. But if the brothers survived, he survived as well.

Highly suggest you watch it or record it. REALLY interesting.
 
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The only time I have ever agreed with you on anything. It was highly intriguing. Don't want to ruin it, but the proof they were alive was pretty rock solid.
 
I kept flipping between it and MNF. When they started presenting some cards that they said that the brothers sent after the escape, I was thinking that all this was going to be was lame circumstantial proof and I just focused on MNF.

What rock solid proof did they provide?

For the record I never felt that the case that they where dead was rock solid either. The Mythbusters early in their series that getting across was possible.
 
CBS story says some relatives have a photo taken of them after the escape and which has been turned over to authorities finally. (The movie version, Escape from Alcatraz, is quite entertaining.)

frankmorris.jpeg
 
I kept flipping between it and MNF. When they started presenting some cards that they said that the brothers sent after the escape, I was thinking that all this was going to be was lame circumstantial proof and I just focused on MNF.

What rock solid proof did they provide?

For the record I never felt that the case that they where dead was rock solid either. The Mythbusters early in their series that getting across was possible.

SPOILER ALERT:


The nephews of the Anglins found out that immediate family had received Christmas cards and a photos from the Anglin brothers. The men got their hands on a photo of the men in Brazil and turned it over to the FBI. Forensic photograph examiners did a series of tests and used previous known photographs of the men and determined the photo was not only authentic, but that it was indeed "highly likely", even near certain, that it was the Anglins in the photo. Thus, the first break in the case in over 50 years and solid proof the men survived and lived in Brazil. They'd be in their mid-80s today.
 
Didn't give any evidence about Frank Morris though. But if the brothers survived, he survived as well.

They were criminals so there is no telling if the Anglins threw Frank Morris overboard or not before they got to shore.

Loved the Alcatraz tour while I was in SF. Lots of great history at that place.
 
SPOILER ALERT:


The nephews of the Anglins found out that immediate family had received Christmas cards and a photos from the Anglin brothers. The men got their hands on a photo of the men in Brazil and turned it over to the FBI. Forensic photograph examiners did a series of tests and used previous known photographs of the men and determined the photo was not only authentic, but that it was indeed "highly likely", even near certain, that it was the Anglins in the photo. Thus, the first break in the case in over 50 years and solid proof the men survived and lived in Brazil. They'd be in their mid-80s today.

Why is it everyone who needs to hide goes to Brazil?

Didn't Mengele go there after WW2??
 
They were criminals so there is no telling if the Anglins threw Frank Morris overboard or not before they got to shore.

Loved the Alcatraz tour while I was in SF. Lots of great history at that place.

Curious, is there a reason that they might have killed him or thrown him overboard? I have no trouble believing they might do it if they have a reason, but I'm not sure what that reason would be. Other then perhaps thinking he's an idoit who will get caught and give them away.
 
Curious, is there a reason that they might have killed him or thrown him overboard? I have no trouble believing they might do it if they have a reason, but I'm not sure what that reason would be. Other then perhaps thinking he's an idoit who will get caught and give them away.

Well the bay is pretty rough water. They could have come upon a situation where they had to dump weight and chose to throw him overboard. I'm not saying I have any concrete evidence, but then again nobody really knows what happened.
 
Well the bay is pretty rough water. They could have come upon a situation where they had to dump weight and chose to throw him overboard. I'm not saying I have any concrete evidence, but then again nobody really knows what happened.

Fair enough answer.
 
Why is it everyone who needs to hide goes to Brazil?

Didn't Mengele go there after WW2??

Apparently, their laws made it difficult to extradite or expel people in the past, although they're trying to clean up their image these days:

Hunted by police in California, Jesse James Hollywood took a friend's advice and caught a plane to Rio, where he lived the high life and thought the law wouldn't touch him. For five years, he was right.



Despite being wanted in Santa Barbara for the kidnapping and killing of a 15-year-old boy, Hollywood didn't lie low. He moved around the Copacabana beach district, toured the country and settled in a paradisiacal beach resort near Rio.
It seemed like a familiar script.

For decades, Brazil was a prime destination for Nazi war criminals, disgraced dictators, fugitive mobsters and common criminals on the lam. England's great train robber, Ronald Biggs, even recorded the dance song "Run to Rio" during his stay.

Police bridle at the suggestion that Brazil is soft on crime, and the government has tried to close the holes that allowed fugitives like Hollywood in. But still, the end of Hollywood's saga caught many Brazilians by surprise.

Acting on an FBI tip, Brazilian federal police nabbed the fugitive in a shopping mall in early March and deported him a day later _ record time in Brazil, where legal proceedings can drag on for years. Because Hollywood entered the country illegally, he wasn't extradited _ but simply expelled.

"Most international fugitives come here on somebody's advice. It was a Brazilian who told Hollywood to come here, marry, have kids, and it would be hard for us to expel him," said Wanderley Martins, a federal police inspector and local Interpol chief. "Unfortunately, it's true."

Stung by its negative image, Brazil has tried to tighten controls over foreigners. In the 1980s, the government signed extradition treaties with many countries, reregistered foreign residents and redoubled efforts to control its vast borders.

Martins cited the case of Mexican pop diva Gloria Trevi, who was recently acquitted in Mexico of sexually abusing young girls in her entourage. Arrested in Brazil in 2000, Trevi became pregnant and gave birth in prison but was nevertheless extradited with her son in 2002.

"They think we're flexible with criminals," Martins said. "We proved we're not."

Brazil wasn't the only Latin American country to take in Nazi fugitives. Holocaust perpetrator Adolf Eichmann was kidnapped by Israel's spy agency in Argentina, and Gestapo leader Klaus Barbie was discovered in Bolivia.

Mexico, just across the U.S. border, has long been a destination of choice for U.S. fugitives. In 2003, rapist Andrew Luster, heir to the Max Factor fortune, was captured by bounty hunters in Puerto Vallarta and returned to the United States. Illinois native Michael Alfonso, accused of murder and listed among the FBI's 10 most wanted fugitives, was captured in Veracruz last year.

Still, Brazil's image as a haven for the world's jetsam dates back decades, and may be hard to shed.

Franz Stangl, who commanded the Treblinka concentration camp in Poland, worked as a manager at the Volkswagen factory in Sao Paulo. Former SS officer Gustav Franz Wagner was arrested in southern Brazil after he was spotted at a birthday party for Adolf Hitler.

Mafia kingpin Tommaso Buscetta, who testified against the mob in the famed "pizza connection" case in the United States, ran a cocaine network from Rio in the 1980s until his arrest and extradition to Italy.

American fugitives also were notorious. Benjack Cage, convicted of insurance fraud in Texas, was a well-known figure. Joe Conforte, the former owner of Nevada's Mustang Ranch brothel and wanted for some $13 million in back taxes, lives in a beachfront penthouse and is often seen dining out or in his box at Rio's race track.

Biggs was probably the best-known fugitive. Convicted of robbing $7.3 million _ worth about $50 million by today's standards _ from the Glasgow-to-London mail train in 1963, Biggs broke out of England's Wandsworth Prison, eluded Scotland Yard and turned up in Rio in 1970.

Brazil had no extradition treaty with England, and Biggs _ the father of a son by a Brazilian mother _ couldn't be deported. The charming rogue became a hero to many Brazilians, who paid to attend pool-side barbecues in his home in Rio's hills. Finally, aging and sick, Biggs voluntarily returned to England and prison in 2001.

"Surveillance and police activities here are lax," said David Fleischer, a professor of political science at the University of Brasilia. Hollywood "obviously wasn't Brazilian. Police should have checked up on him."

The blond Californian was a familiar sight jogging with his pit bulls on the beach in Saquarema, 60 miles east of Rio. He taught English and cashed in dollars sent by his family, awaited the birth of his son with young Marcia Reis and enjoyed feisty drinking bouts in the local bars.

"He liked to socialize, but he had a short fuse," said Interpol's Martins. "He'd fight with bar owners about the beer tab. That was his nature."

It all fell apart suddenly. The FBI learned that Hollywood was expecting a visit from a cousin and tipped off Brazilian police. Federal agents arrested him without a struggle at a Saquarema shopping mall, shipped him to Rio and put him on a plane for California to face charges of kidnapping and murder.

An arraignment is scheduled for April 4. If convicted of killing 15-year-old Nick Markowitz, he could face the death penalty.

Markowitz was abducted on Aug. 6, 2000, as he walked near his San Fernando Valley home. He spent two days with his captors before they killed him because of a $1,200 drug debt, according to grand jury testimony. He was forced to walk a mile into Los Padres National Forest before being shot nine times and buried in a shallow grave.

"The quick expulsion was a very good show," said political scientist Fleischer. "It was a wise decision."
 
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