anyone wanna talk about iowa wrestling's issues with race?

lookleft goright

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If you include all minorites then there has been 4 minority starters(Lugo, Ramos, Marion, Cooper) in 14 years. If you look at any minorites on the team only Perez and Moody have wrestles over three years and wrestled a substantial number of matches. Brantley wrestled 1 match from 2014-2017. Renteria, Jean-Jacques, Green, and Pendleton were on the roster for one year or less. Iowa State is also located in a small Iowa college town and they have 7 minorities on their roster including 4 starters.
Is that because KJ was black and recruited a lot of blacks? Maybe he was racist and recruited blacks over whites. Maybe he (KJ) was more comfortable with blacks kids than white kids. Maybe the black kids were more comfortable with him than other white coaches. I am just tossing around ideas here. We could probably call that shades of racism if we wanted to, but it does not feel like it to me. Seriously though, why so many black wrestlers in Ames as compared to Iowa City? Nebby has had their share also, it seems to me. I am guessing Bourroughs had a lot to do with that. I just can't see the reason for the shortage of blacks wrestlers in Iowa City being because of racism on the part of the coaching staff. Maybe it is some deep rooted in the subconscious mind sort of thing and that is the level we are fighting racism at these days. I am open to ideas.
 
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BanjoSaysWoof

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Tom and Terry aren’t at all a problem.

It’s nice to say “I don’t look at skin color”, but I think maybe sometimes it should be looked at to find empathy. If there is one thing I can be sure of, they are men choose empathy (except whistle to whistle, then it’s... well definitely not empathy lol)

hypothetically, if you have a 2 time state champ from a comfortable suburban background, and you have a 3 time region runner up who maybe had some home and possibly structural issues around him wherein he wasn’t given the same shot to be his best?

With 9.9 scholarships, the kids on partials or walk-ons can be the difference between a trophy and a “always have next year”. Maybe there is more upside in places we haven’t looked. Not intentionally. I don’t think they avoided kids because of anything but results on the Matt. But maybe future results would be different if they had their hands on him with their structures around him.


Not sure if that makes sense.

and that’s not an Iowa thing. It’s a wrestling thing. We rank guys based on tournament results. It’s how it is.

tl;dr— banjo should go back to his moms basement and smoke more weed.
 

The Vak

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I would probably be left of most on this board, and I work in a field where I see the very real effects of the systemic racism that has led to the protests and riots, but there are a lot of factors to consider when it comes to this specific question:

1. Wrestling is, unfortunately, a very white sport, although I have felt a shift in that, especially since Beat the Streets really started gaining some traction.

2. Iowa has been heavily recruiting wrestlers of color, they've just missed on them. Steveson and RBY were already mentioned. We also got Ybarra coming in this year. The school has several notable POC alumni who started, both in the recent past (Ramos, Montell Marion, Edwin Cooper) and in the history of the school (Williams brothers, Chris Campbell, etc.), plus recent recruits like Renteria, Mejia, Moody, etc.

3. You can't force people to come. So if Iowa is recruiting POC and not getting them, that is different than if they weren't recruiting POC to come to school there.

Given the school's history with POC and also known attempts to recruit black wrestlers that just elected to go elsewhere, even though it tends more towards Latinx wrestlers then black wrestlers in recent times, I'd be hard-pressed to find any evidence of racism.
 

Hawky42

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Sure, there are wrestling programs with more Black athletes ( Iowa State, Mizzou, or Nebraska for example ) but also other programs where off the top of my head I can't recall many black guys (Minnesota or Wisconsin)
 
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grapplefann

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OP has nothing but I have something.

How about we talk about the protesters who are turning protests into nights of drunken stupidity, tagging buildings and fooling themselves into thinking they’re a part of something special? They’re not. There’s nothing special in that sort of behavior.

How about we talk about the protestors who stood-by and watched others commit acts of destruction and vandalism...night after night...never standing up for their town and city....or themselves.
How about those 100's of thousands who protested peacefully, and still are? Don't convert this thread into your alt-right propaganda horror show.
 

grapplefann

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Frankly, is the diversity in college wrestling any worse than it is in roundball and football, where a disproportional number of Black athletes participate? Also, where is the Jordan Burroughs of lacrosse, hockey, or golf right now?
Wrestling doesn't have a race problem any more than our society has a race problem, which it has. The guy who started this thread just wants to deface OUR program rather than try to tackle the problem.
 
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Hawky42

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Is that because KJ was black and recruited a lot of blacks? Maybe he was racist and recruited blacks over whites. Maybe he (KJ) was more comfortable with blacks kids than white kids. Maybe the black kids were more comfortable with him than other white coaches. I am just tossing around ideas here. We could probably call that shades of racism if we wanted to, but it does not feel like it to me. Seriously though, why so many black wrestlers in Ames as compared to Iowa City? Nebby has had their share also, it seems to me. I am guessing Bourroughs had a lot to do with that. I just can't see the reason for the shortage of blacks wrestlers in Iowa City being because of racism on the part of the coaching staff. Maybe it is some deep rooted in the subconscious mind sort of thing and that is the level we are fighting racism at these days. I am open to ideas.
Harold Nichols recruited many black wrestlers starting in the 60's because he wanted too win however he could. It's been a Cyclone thing ever since.
 
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SPOONER

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If you include all minorites then there has been 4 minority starters(Lugo, Ramos, Marion, Cooper) in 14 years. If you look at any minorites on the team only Perez and Moody have wrestles over three years and wrestled a substantial number of matches. Brantley wrestled 1 match from 2014-2017. Renteria, Jean-Jacques, Green, and Pendleton were on the roster for one year or less. Iowa State is also located in a small Iowa college town and they have 7 minorities on their roster including 4 starters.
Iowa has been substantially better than Iowa State since Brands took over. Should they have recruited lesser wrestlers so they can win less? Take out the legacy recruit who came with daddy’s job and the number of minorities that have signed with ISU in the post KJ era is awfully short.
 

rcamp67

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How about those 100's of thousands who protested peacefully, and still are? Don't convert this thread into your alt-right propaganda horror show.
What on earth are you reading? I don’t consider myself right wing and certainly not alt-right, but if being opposed to burning cities down makes me alt right I guess I need to reconsider where I fit politically.
 

grapplefann

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What on earth are you reading? I don’t consider myself right wing and certainly not alt-right, but if being opposed to burning cities down makes me alt right I guess I need to reconsider where I fit politically.
I'm reading and seeing hundreds of thousands of peaceful protesters. I'm not saying there's not been some awful destruction and violence, particularly last week, but to paint it all violent now like the poster above isn't right either. The peaceful protesters didn't stand by. They marched, and some did try to stop the looting.
 

rcamp67

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I'm reading and seeing hundreds of thousands of peaceful protesters. I'm not saying there's not been some awful destruction and violence, particularly last week, but to paint it all violent now like the poster above isn't right either. The peaceful protesters didn't stand by. They marched, and some did try to stop the looting.
This....I agree with. The poster you were attacking didn’t say anything contrary to this in my opinion. He chose to focus on the negative aspects for sure but the things he mentioned did happen and they were wrong. Ignoring that is wrong as is ignoring cops that may be racist and are for sure evil f&@ks.
 
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Menace Sockeyes

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I can only think of two black starters in Brands 14 years at Iowa (Marion and Cooper). For comparison PSU had 3 black starters this year. Neither Marion or Cooper were recruited straight out of high school. I don't see any signs of blatant racism in the program, but it seems like a good time for all programs to listen and self reflect how they can do better.
This, but...
This was hardly the year to complain about Iowa’s lineup
...also this.

I want the best wrestlers here whether white, brown, anything. Period.
 
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burk11

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Prior to viewing Iowa news media I was unaware of the racial turmoil taking place in hawkeye land. Wow, talk about dynamiting the outhouse. The salaries of Doyle, and Brian Ferentz are mildly jolting. Doyle's base is $800,000 and Ferentz's base is $775,000. And both received 10% a increase this year. Are there any economic problems down on the farm? Unlikely this stuff ends well. BLM
 
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ArturoFuente

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Prior to viewing Iowa news media I was unaware of the racial turmoil taking place in hawkeye land. Wow, talk about dynamiting the outhouse. The salaries of Doyle, and Brian Ferentz are mildly jolting. Doyle's base is $800,000 and Ferentz's base is $775,000. And both received 10% a increase this year. Are there any economic problems down on the farm? Unlikely this stuff ends well. BLM
I made a green juice today. Cucumber, celery, parsley, cilantro, lemon, lime, and ginger. It was really good. Have lost 25 lbs this year.
 

Mendoza77

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What on earth are you reading? I don’t consider myself right wing and certainly not alt-right, but if being opposed to burning cities down makes me alt right I guess I need to reconsider where I fit politically.
What cities have been burned down? What neighborhoods have been burned down? What city block has been burned down? Careful about using exaggeration.
 

js8793

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What cities have been burned down? What neighborhoods have been burned down? What city block has been burned down? Careful about using exaggeration.
It's amazing the realities that some people construct in their heads because of the media they consume and their lack of exposure to the real world.

Was talking to my parents the other day and they mentioned that one of their neighbors, a very nice old man that we've known for years, told them he's been sleeping with his rifle under his bed to protect himself from looters. They live in one of the quietest neighborhoods in the one of the quietest suburbs in the entire state. There hasn't been any significant looting anywhere in the state either. Yet, this poor old man has been scared sh*tless about antifa and black lives matter coming to his house to beat him up because he watches too much fox news. He was also very worried about the migrant caravan a couple years ago when that whole hoopla was going on. We're 2,000 miles from the Mexico border. It's a crying shame the way the media has poisoned the brains of a lot of really nice people for political gain. So many people living in constant fear for no reason now.
 

uncle jim 62

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hmm, seems to be some tension! lets be fair you recruit the best wrestler. I want to say nobody cares what color they are but maybe I'm wrong.
 
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Scryed

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I was going to give this troll attempt a 2/10 but it clearly roped quite a few people in.. so I will up it to a 6/10 troll job.
 
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pumpdog20

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I would probably be left of most on this board, and I work in a field where I see the very real effects of the systemic racism that has led to the protests and riots, but there are a lot of factors to consider when it comes to this specific question:

1. Wrestling is, unfortunately, a very white sport, although I have felt a shift in that, especially since Beat the Streets really started gaining some traction.

2. Iowa has been heavily recruiting wrestlers of color, they've just missed on them. Steveson and RBY were already mentioned. We also got Ybarra coming in this year. The school has several notable POC alumni who started, both in the recent past (Ramos, Montell Marion, Edwin Cooper) and in the history of the school (Williams brothers, Chris Campbell, etc.), plus recent recruits like Renteria, Mejia, Moody, etc.

3. You can't force people to come. So if Iowa is recruiting POC and not getting them, that is different than if they weren't recruiting POC to come to school there.

Given the school's history with POC and also known attempts to recruit black wrestlers that just elected to go elsewhere, even though it tends more towards Latinx wrestlers then black wrestlers in recent times, I'd be hard-pressed to find any evidence of racism.

Your post was great. And then you did this, and now your post is dumb.
 

McCulloughd

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It's amazing the realities that some people construct in their heads because of the media they consume and their lack of exposure to the real world.

Was talking to my parents the other day and they mentioned that one of their neighbors, a very nice old man that we've known for years, told them he's been sleeping with his rifle under his bed to protect himself from looters. They live in one of the quietest neighborhoods in the one of the quietest suburbs in the entire state. There hasn't been any significant looting anywhere in the state either. Yet, this poor old man has been scared sh*tless about antifa and black lives matter coming to his house to beat him up because he watches too much fox news. He was also very worried about the migrant caravan a couple years ago when that whole hoopla was going on. We're 2,000 miles from the Mexico border. It's a crying shame the way the media has poisoned the brains of a lot of really nice people for political gain. So many people living in constant fear for no reason now.
Of course it's the media's fault.
 

bman546

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So the OP wants to discuss the issues, but can't cite any issues? Casual relationships are not evidence of anything. A roster with limited minorities if it does exist does not mean they are being excluded from the recruiting process, or Iowa would not welcome them. Sometimes, athletes go to other schools by their choice, not because they were excluded from consideration due to bias. Some programs are a better fit. Iowa City is unique, just as someone from rural Iowa might think the big city NJ/NY metro area of Rutgers is unique, or a change from what they are used to or prefer.... If you want to discuss issues, please bring issues that are valid. Don't conjure up issues or controversy that may not exist. There are many reasons athletes go to one school vs another. To stir the pot insinuating it must be a racial thing is irresponsible.
Newsflash to the OP:
The NBA has race issues as demonstrated by the facts that whites comprise 75% of the US population, but only represent 18%-20% of NBA players. Something is afoul (pun intended).

This just in: Defensive coordinators and defensive back coaches in the NFL are bias against white cornerbacks.
The evidence speaks for itself. Jason Seehorn, in 2003, was the last white corner to start in the NFL. End discrimination against white defensive backs now. Please discuss the issues
 

HoundedHawk

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I can only think of two black starters in Brands 14 years at Iowa (Marion and Cooper). For comparison PSU had 3 black starters this year. Neither Marion or Cooper were recruited straight out of high school. I don't see any signs of blatant racism in the program, but it seems like a good time for all programs to listen and self reflect how they can do better.
Do better doing what? Intentionally signing an athlete because of their race over another?
 

manmythlegend1

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It's amazing the realities that some people construct in their heads because of the media they consume and their lack of exposure to the real world.

Was talking to my parents the other day and they mentioned that one of their neighbors, a very nice old man that we've known for years, told them he's been sleeping with his rifle under his bed to protect himself from looters. They live in one of the quietest neighborhoods in the one of the quietest suburbs in the entire state. There hasn't been any significant looting anywhere in the state either. Yet, this poor old man has been scared sh*tless about antifa and black lives matter coming to his house to beat him up because he watches too much fox news. He was also very worried about the migrant caravan a couple years ago when that whole hoopla was going on. We're 2,000 miles from the Mexico border. It's a crying shame the way the media has poisoned the brains of a lot of really nice people for political gain. So many people living in constant fear for no reason now.

Fox news is the problem..lol. I only watch fox very little as I think they are also a part of the narrative issue but I do find it hilarious when people point out fox as a problem. Think about the fact that 95% of media is left leaning. You could literally turn on almost any news on TV at any time and get the Left point of view, but that one place that gives the right political side of things is the problem. So ridiculous, as if fox is forced on people at airports and such..lol

i wonder if these frat boys watched fox or any other visual news media?? lol, maybe they were ill informed?? I'm on your side peaceful protestors...Im on your side..people are ignorant

P.S. Harvey Epstein did not kill himself and China is our real enemy, not each other!!!!
 

JohnBasedow

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Do better doing what? Intentionally signing an athlete because of their race over another?
I’m assuming he is talking about better doing better with the minority athletes that Iowa went after and weren’t able to land. Who knows if it would have made a difference and I’m not saying the coaches aren’t doing well now but self evaluating is one of the things that Tom and Terry preach so it’s silly to think they aren’t doing that with their program and race.
 

js8793

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Fox news is the problem..lol. I only watch fox very little as I think they are also a part of the narrative issue but I do find it hilarious when people point out fox as a problem. Think about the fact that 95% of media is left leaning. You could literally turn on almost any news on TV at any time and get the Left point of view, but that one place that gives the right political side of things is the problem. So ridiculous, as if fox is forced on people at airports and such..lol

i wonder if these frat boys watched fox or any other visual news media?? lol, maybe they were ill informed?? I'm on your side peaceful protestors...Im on your side..people are ignorant

P.S. Harvey Epstein did not kill himself and China is our real enemy, not each other!!!!
I'm using fox news because that's the main organization that is pushing the specific narratives from my personal anecdote. You can apply the same thing to the suburban liberal who watches 8 hours of MSNBC a day and thinks every critique of democratic politicians or any kind of controversy is russian putin propoganda, which is obviously an insane world view.

Also, Fox News is by far the largest political media organization and a majority of local news organizations are owned by conservative groups like Sinclair, so the idea that 95% of the media is left is laughable. In fact, MSNBC isn't even very left. Look at the contempt they had for a guy like Sanders, who is a pretty moderate European style social democrat. A huge number of their hosts are actually "never-Trump" republicans (meaning they agree with everything trump does, but don't like that he uses bad words sometimes).
 

manmythlegend1

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I'm using fox news because that's the main organization that is pushing the specific narratives from my personal anecdote. You can apply the same thing to the suburban liberal who watches 8 hours of MSNBC a day and thinks every critique of democratic politicians or any kind of controversy is russian putin propoganda, which is obviously an insane world view.

Also, Fox News is by far the largest political media organization and a majority of local news organizations are owned by conservative groups like Sinclair, so the idea that 95% of the media is left is laughable. In fact, MSNBC isn't even very left. Look at the contempt they had for a guy like Sanders, who is a pretty moderate European style social democrat. A huge number of their hosts are actually "never-Trump" republicans (meaning they agree with everything trump does, but don't like that he uses bad words sometimes).
It is not laughable, all it takes is common sense, ears, eyes.

Edit: Republicans are a part of the problem, you can slam republicans all day long and get little argument from me

Second Edit: Democrats and republicans are both corrupt. The truth is Democrats are more corrupt due to the fact they get cover from most of the media. A corrupt republican will get called out pretty quickly, A corrupt democrat can wear black face/or KK outfit in college yearbook and remain governor of virginia. You will never convince me a republican governor could have stood up to that as the Media would have never let it go until they took them down. It is not equally judged and therefore democrats get away with more outlandish and corrupt behavior for longer periods of time and end up more corrupt for it...if roles were reversed it would be the 50's again!!!
 
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Spaceman Spifff

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I'm using fox news because that's the main organization that is pushing the specific narratives from my personal anecdote. You can apply the same thing to the suburban liberal who watches 8 hours of MSNBC a day and thinks every critique of democratic politicians or any kind of controversy is russian putin propoganda, which is obviously an insane world view.

Also, Fox News is by far the largest political media organization and a majority of local news organizations are owned by conservative groups like Sinclair, so the idea that 95% of the media is left is laughable. In fact, MSNBC isn't even very left. Look at the contempt they had for a guy like Sanders, who is a pretty moderate European style social democrat. A huge number of their hosts are actually "never-Trump" republicans (meaning they agree with everything trump does, but don't like that he uses bad words sometimes).
JS8793,
I don’t know the exact percentage, but there is NO question the media is predominantly left wing. Conservatives have talk radio, Fox News, the Wall Street Journal and National Review (we even have appeared to lose Drudge Report), the liberals have pretty much every other media outlet, including all the major TV networks (ABC, NBC, CBS), cable tv (CNN, MSNBC), print media (New York times, Washington Post and most other major newspapers), Hollywood, and all the major Internet powers (google, twitter, Facebook, etc).
 
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fufighters

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With what has been tweeted about the football program I'm sure that every sport/coach is now under full review. The op was another of several recent threads that throw mudd and then skip off.
TNT do not seam prejudice in any way, but they will be under scrutiny as part of a trical down effect as I'm sure Barta and his entire office will be developing new policies.
 
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2td3nf6fall

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Do better doing what? Intentionally signing an athlete because of their race over another?
Here is the NCAA Inclusion Statement:

"As a core value, the NCAA believes in and is committed to diversity, inclusion and gender equity among its student-athletes, coaches and administrators. We seek to establish and maintain an inclusive culture that fosters equitable participation for student-athletes and career opportunities for coaches and administrators from diverse backgrounds. Diversity and inclusion improve the learning environment for all student-athletes and enhance excellence within the Association."

The number one indicator of success in the University of Iowa Athletic Diversity and Inclusion plan is:

"Achieve a student-athlete ethnic diversity rate of 25% within 5 years"

Does the Iowa coaching staff and fan base think having only 3 black athletes competing in 14 years is doing a good job of meeting these inclusion statements? Iowa wrestling has had a diversity rate of around 4% since Brands has been head coach. Is the answer that it does not matter as long as the program keeps winning? I doubt the NCAA would agree with that answer. The staff is most likely having these conversations and recruiting is trending in the right direction, but yes, I think it could be better.
 

McIlraveysMullet

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Here is the NCAA Inclusion Statement:

"As a core value, the NCAA believes in and is committed to diversity, inclusion and gender equity among its student-athletes, coaches and administrators. We seek to establish and maintain an inclusive culture that fosters equitable participation for student-athletes and career opportunities for coaches and administrators from diverse backgrounds. Diversity and inclusion improve the learning environment for all student-athletes and enhance excellence within the Association."

The number one indicator of success in the University of Iowa Athletic Diversity and Inclusion plan is:

"Achieve a student-athlete ethnic diversity rate of 25% within 5 years"

Does the Iowa coaching staff and fan base think having only 3 black athletes competing in 14 years is doing a good job of meeting these inclusion statements? Iowa wrestling has had a diversity rate of around 4% since Brands has been head coach. Is the answer that it does not matter as long as the program keeps winning? I doubt the NCAA would agree with that answer. The staff is most likely having these conversations and recruiting is trending in the right direction, but yes, I think it could be better.
So wrestlers on the roster but not good enough to compete don't count?