anyone wanna talk about iowa wrestling's issues with race?

[SPOONER]

i didn't accuse, i believe the lack of black wrestlers through the iowa program to be an area of concern (i guess i used issue, my bad)

when TnT address this the program will be better for it!

but i don't think it is an accusation to say that iowa has had a disproportionate amount of white wrestlers compared to black which is something to improve i think its plainly obvious

It's only an issue if you think it is more important to recruit based on skin color (which is racism) vs. building the best possible collegiate wrestling team.

 

[24Hawkeye7]

It's only an issue if you think it is more important to recruit based on skin color (which is racism) vs. building the best possible collegiate wrestling team.

i hear what youre saying. i'm not saying recruit based on skin color... i'm saying recruit the best at every weight, to that point, iowa has struggled with matriculating black wrestlers, specifically. i believe this to be a disadvantage (leaving all politics out of it) when building the best collegiate wrestling team.

bringing in someone like J'Den would be earth shattering for iowa in a positive way

 

[SPOONER]

i hear what youre saying. i'm not saying recruit based on skin color... i'm saying recruit the best at every weight, to that point, iowa has struggled with matriculating black wrestlers, specifically. i believe this to be a disadvantage (leaving all politics out of it) when building the best collegiate wrestling team.

bringing in someone like J'Den would be earth shattering for iowa in a positive way

Do you want them to recruit black wrestlers or recruit the best wrestler at every weight? I can't tell. You're saying both things.

 

[24Hawkeye7]

Do you want them to recruit black wrestlers or recruit the best wrestler at every weight? I can't tell. You're saying both things.

Do you want them to recruit black wrestlers or recruit the best wrestler at every weight? I can't tell. You're saying both things.

i apologize for my lack of clarity, as we all know its hard to have these discussions on message boards lol

i want them to recruit the best wrestlers at every weight. and what i'm saying to that point is it is clear iowa has been unsuccessful at landing the top black wrestlers.

i know TnT are waaay ahead of me on this thinking, but I view it as a program disadvantage. one that, when it is addressed, will only further propel iowa

 

[lookleft goright]

I am not sure how many top black wrestlers there are out there. It is a pretty white awards stand at the NCAA tourney. However, missing on J'den Cox probably has more to do with location. Not being on Mark Hall's short list or even contacting Brooks may be due to them not being a good fit. Does not being a good fit mean they are black and racism abound or does it mean something else? I do not have the answer to that, but I have my opinion.
I think TnT are pretty set in their approach to recruiting and I do not see them changing their standards or philosophy very much. So does that mean they have a problem with people of color or does it mean there are many people of color who have a problem with them? Race issues can go both ways.

 

[24Hawkeye7]

I am not sure how many top black wrestlers there are out there. It is a pretty white awards stand at the NCAA tourney. However, missing on J'den Cox probably has more to do with location. Not being on Mark Hall's short list or even contacting Brooks may be due to them not being a good fit. Does not being a good fit mean they are black and racism abound or does it mean something else? I do not have the answer to that, but I have my opinion.
I think TnT are pretty set in their approach to recruiting and I do not see them changing their standards or philosophy very much. So does that mean they have a problem with people of color or does it mean there are many people of color who have a problem with them? Race issues can go both ways.

i think you're largely missing my perspective and i'm about to start a series of zoom meetings but i do want to say this: i think you're incorrect for viewing TnT's philosophy as static.

they are some of the most open-minded people imo. they are dynamic, ever-evolving and continually learn... they would absolutely change their philosophy (they did a few years ago)... and two: it depends on what it means to "fit"

 

[MVPFAN]

Iowa is going to recruit based on what weights they need, and within that they are going to recruit the best combination of skill set, mind set and fit within the teams culture relating to being dedicated and disciplined vs say a slack ass party animal.. Academics come into play and so does what they think their chances are to get a kid plus the resources that would be used to get a kid ie recruiting budget and how much scholarship. After all the that kid has to pick Iowa over the other teams that want him. I do not believe for a second that the race of the kid is factored in any way. TnT want to win and will will put the best wrestlers they can on the mat to do so.

 

[Hawky42]

College restling isn't a sport where the very good african american athlete will have great advatages. Way different then football and basketball. No jumping, sprinting ect.. Guys just want too do a more loose lucrative sport You look at NCAA wrestling as a whole, dedpite a modest increase in black athletes then the past its still mostly white guys.
Cash Wilcke beat that stud guy from Michigan last season despite being outmatched physically

Now I will say that a young Af-Am guy maybe would rather go too Mizzou, IA St, Nebraska ect... That statement has merit in some ways.

But this isnt a deal where its hurting our team. We always have some of the best recruits and only ten weights too fill so we are looking for the best wrestlers and I believe TnT have never said " well he's good but because he's black we dont want him"

And like I said in a previous post, look at Minnesota and Wisconsin. I can hardly name any black guys from those teams. So this isnt just an Iowa thing.

 

[IAChief32]

thank you for your service Chief, i also served in the Navy: 6 years as a team guy in little creek, what about you?

Retired AF. Team guy, eh? High speed bro. Have spent some time at Coronado teaching water survival off the dock in the back by the bay. Seen a lot of the Buds and Recon training classes. Great place to be, tough ass training.

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

@24Hawkeye7 you started this thread right when the football program's racism accusations came out. By doing so and with your wording "Iowa wrestling's issues with race" without providing well thought out reasoning or supporting points, you were race baiting and looking to stir up shit. Now you're walking it back. Understand that the reason you were met with the responses in this thread is because it does not appear that you started the thread in good faith and with good intent.

 

[grapplefann]

@24Hawkeye7 you started this thread right when the football program's racism accusations came out. By doing so and with your wording "Iowa wrestling's issues with race" without providing well thought out reasoning or supporting points, you were race baiting and looking to stir up shit. Now you're walking it back. Understand that the reason you were met with the responses in this thread is because it does not appear that you started the thread in good faith and with good intent.

This.

 

[IamHawkeye]

I am not sure how many top black wrestlers there are out there. It is a pretty white awards stand at the NCAA tourney. However, missing on J'den Cox probably has more to do with location. Not being on Mark Hall's short list or even contacting Brooks may be due to them not being a good fit. Does not being a good fit mean they are black and racism abound or does it mean something else? I do not have the answer to that, but I have my opinion.
I think TnT are pretty set in their approach to recruiting and I do not see them changing their standards or philosophy very much. So does that mean they have a problem with people of color or does it mean there are many people of color who have a problem with them? Race issues can go both ways.

What about the new recruit talked about in roster thread?

 

[IAChief32]

What about the new recruit talked about in roster thread?

Cool thing is that he got into ten colleges...came here last summer and fell in love with the place and the Iowa philosophy.

 

[Pennstate1985]

I cannot imagine any top end college coach having a shred of bias to them. Each wrestler is a unique individual with unique talent and goals. If the coach has a need for that wrestler and their vision for themselves meshes well with the program, you’re going to recruit them. Period. What would be the point of bias? It only weakens the program and you’ll lose your job sooner rather than later.

 

[scruffyhawk]

I cannot imagine any top end college coach having a shred of bias to them. Each wrestler is a unique individual with unique talent and goals. If the coach has a need for that wrestler and their vision for themselves meshes well with the program, you’re going to recruit them. Period. What would be the point of bias? It only weakens the program and you’ll lose your job sooner rather than later.

Wrestling is such an international sport. I had a nice conversation with an Iranian wrestler while I was on a business trip in Boston years ago. The bartender happened to be from Iowa and bet me a drink I didn't know the town she was from. Of course I had drinks there once. 'Do you know Dan Gable?' was his question from behind me. He knew as much about Iowa wrestling as some on this board. I guess my point is race and background mean so little in the sport as there is a healthy respect for any high ceiling wrestler.

Introducing kids to the sport young just doesn't happen in some school districts because the sport isn't popular locally. Same problem with hockey or soccer. So many parents complain about the time or money they put into pre high school sports it isn't surprising the best recruits come from clubs or regions with historically strong competition.

 

[ltsimmer]

thanks john, i was out of reach for work but i agree that TnT are probably ahead of the curve and i have faith in them moving forward.

but you're right, i do think that something is missing from the standpoint of iowa's ability to attract black wrestlers.

when corrected for by TnT it will only improve the program!

I imagine the conversation going something like this.
Morningstar: Coach, we need to recruit a 157 pounder this recruiting cycle.
Brands: Who's available?
Morningstar: There's a #3 pfp, #9 pfp, and #13 pfp
Brands: Any of them black?
Morningstar: Ya, #9
Brands: Get him
Morningstar: But Coach, I've already started a relationship with #3 and he lives in Iowa and your next door neighbor.
Brands: Don't care! We need to get with the game.

1 month later
Brands: Star, we get #9 yet?
Morningstar: Sorry coach, I tried everything. He's going with Cael. He's mom was a wrestling cheerleader from P State and his father is the Strength and Conditioning Coach for P State. Plus, his girlfriend goes to P State. But I just heard from #3, he wants in.
Brands: Who's the next highest ranked black guy for 157?
Morningstar: #83 in his weight class
Brands: Good! Get him! This will only improve our program!

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

Morningstar: Coach, we need to recruit a 157 pounder this recruiting cycle.
Brands: Who's available?
Morningstar: There's a #3 pfp, #9 pfp, and #13 pfp
Brands: Any of them black?
Morningstar: Ya, #9
Brands: Get him
Morningstar: But Coach, I've already started a relationship with #3 and he lives in Iowa and your next door neighbor.
Brands: Don't care! We need to get with the game.

1 month later
Brands: Star, we get #9 yet?
Morningstar: Sorry coach, I tried everything. He's going with Cael. He's mom was a wrestling cheerleader from P State and his father is the Strength and Conditioning Coach for P State. Plus, his girlfriend goes to P State. But I just heard from #3, he wants in.
Brands: Who's the next highest ranked black guy for 157?
Morningstar: #83 in his weight class
Brands: Good! Get him! This will only improve our program!

Just so that "transcript" doesn't end up on the nightly news and/or on ESPN, etc...you may want to edit it to make it clear to all that it was tongue in cheek.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

It's amazing the realities that some people construct in their heads because of the media they consume and their lack of exposure to the real world.

Was talking to my parents the other day and they mentioned that one of their neighbors, a very nice old man that we've known for years, told them he's been sleeping with his rifle under his bed to protect himself from looters. They live in one of the quietest neighborhoods in the one of the quietest suburbs in the entire state. There hasn't been any significant looting anywhere in the state either. Yet, this poor old man has been scared sh*tless about antifa and black lives matter coming to his house to beat him up because he watches too much fox news. He was also very worried about the migrant caravan a couple years ago when that whole hoopla was going on. We're 2,000 miles from the Mexico border. It's a crying shame the way the media has poisoned the brains of a lot of really nice people for political gain. So many people living in constant fear for no reason now.

Nailed it. It seems that the most frightened people are smack dab in incredibly safe neighborhoods. It is scary how paranoid so many people have become.

They would do well to remember that most crime is one of opportunity - most criminals hunt in places they are familiar with and where they won’t draw interest - that’s not in the middle of some random ass suburb unless it’s a pleated khaki Everyman like BTK