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Are the exchanges a good idea?

theiacowtipper

HR Legend
Feb 17, 2004
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Aimed specifically for the righties on the board. Do you think the healthcare exchanges are a concept worth saving? Or should that be thrown out with the rest of the ACA? I ask because we have heard over and over that the entire concept was worthless.
 
Aimed specifically for the righties on the board. Do you think the healthcare exchanges are a concept worth saving? Or should that be thrown out with the rest of the ACA? I ask because we have heard over and over that the entire concept was worthless.

Terrible idea. We already had "exchanges".... they were called "insurance agents' offices"....
 
The Soviets already tried government-run "markets"... it failed.

So the idea of a public clearinghouse where companies could list their policies in a way that a consumer could comparison shop easily is not an attractive offering?

An insurance agent is worthless. The agent only sells plans from a couple of companies at most.
 
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So the idea of a public clearinghouse where companies could list their policies in a way that a consumer could comparison shop easily is not an attractive offering?

An insurance agent is worthless. The agent only sells plans from a couple of companies at most.

You know there's nothing stopping you from getting quotes from multiple agents, right?
 
So the idea of a public clearinghouse where companies could list their policies in a way that a consumer could comparison shop easily is not an attractive offering?

An insurance agent is worthless. The agent only sells plans from a couple of companies at most.
That would be fine .... if government allowed the companies to actually offer different policies.
 
That would be fine .... if government allowed the companies to actually offer different policies.

Sure they can. Are you saying that companies can't offer different coverage items over the base? Different deductibles? Different copayment? All of those are current available.
 
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Sure they can. Are you saying that companies can't offer different coverage items over the base? Different deductibles? Different copayment? All of those are current available.
I think the key phrase in your statement is "over the base." The base has been one of the big controversies. Can a person buy a policy that covers catastrophic illness/injury only? It was my understanding that the answer is no.
 
I think the key phrase in your statement is "over the base." The base has been one of the big controversies. Can a person buy a policy that covers catastrophic illness/injury only? It was my understanding that the answer is no.

You can buy one, but it won't satisfy the individual mandate and you'll still pay a tax penalty.
 
So the idea of a public clearinghouse where companies could list their policies in a way that a consumer could comparison shop easily is not an attractive offering?

An insurance agent is worthless. The agent only sells plans from a couple of companies at most.

Use an insurance broker instead
 
No one said ACA was perfect, it was not. It was the first step to single payer, that was the hope of the right. Those same people thought that when the problems were found, solutions would be given to change the system to improve it. The Republicans would never do that, no matte how much the Dems wanted to change and improve the system. Look at the original bill, money was in it to provide costs to the insurance companies to make up for adding the people that preexisting conditions. The Rep. axed that money, making sure that the insurance companies would never be able to recoup their costs by offering insurance to these people. ACA is like SS, the right hated it from the start, and wanted to destroy it from its inception. They realized, correctly, that if was successful, people would like it, much like SS, and it would turn into a single payer program. The big money that insurance companies, big meds, ect will be gone. That is why they want to destroy it, and give us the unfree market. Selling insurance over state lines will not fix the problems. Just keep the profits rolling in, is the only thing that matters.
 
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No one said ACA was perfect, it was not. It was the first step to single payer, that was the hope of the right. Those same people thought that when the problems were found, solutions would be given to change the system to improve it. The Republicans would never do that, no matte how much the Dems wanted to change and improve the system. Look at the original bill, money was in it to provide costs to the insurance companies to make up for adding the people that preexisting conditions. The Rep. axed that money, making sure that the insurance companies would never be able to recoup their costs by offering insurance to these people. ACA is like SS, the right hated it from the start, and wanted to destroy it from its inception. They realized, correctly, that if was successful, people would like it, much like SS, and it would turn into a single payer program. The big money that insurance companies, big meds, ect will be gone. That is why they want to destroy it, and give us the unfree market. Selling insurance over state lines will not fix the problems. Just keep the profits rolling in, is the only thing that matters.

Wait... single payer would be a "free market" and the old way is "unfree"?

Paging George Orwell....
 
No one said ACA was perfect, it was not. It was the first step to single payer, that was the hope of the right. Those same people thought that when the problems were found, solutions would be given to change the system to improve it. The Republicans would never do that, no matte how much the Dems wanted to change and improve the system. Look at the original bill, money was in it to provide costs to the insurance companies to make up for adding the people that preexisting conditions. The Rep. axed that money, making sure that the insurance companies would never be able to recoup their costs by offering insurance to these people. ACA is like SS, the right hated it from the start, and wanted to destroy it from its inception. They realized, correctly, that if was successful, people would like it, much like SS, and it would turn into a single payer program. The big money that insurance companies, big meds, ect will be gone. That is why they want to destroy it, and give us the unfree market. Selling insurance over state lines will not fix the problems. Just keep the profits rolling in, is the only thing that matters.
OK, if you mistyped, that's no problem. Happens to everybody. If you really think the right hoped it was the first step to single payer, well.......
 
A good agent can ask the right questions and steer them to the product that best suits them in a fraction of the time it would take the consumer to sift through each of the available policies themselves.

Or an agent can stern them to a policy that makes the biggest commission.
 
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The Illinois exchange offers plans from 6 different companies with all levels of coverage, from bronze to platinum. It's been a huge success.
 
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Or an agent can stern them to a policy that makes the biggest commission.
You asked why an agent is needed. I gave a practical answer.

If you feel you can't trust an agent to give you honest help, then by all means spend 4 or 5 hours doing the research yourself.

A word of caution: this is one of those situations where people "don't know what they don't know" and mistakes are made by fairly intelligent people on a regular basis simply because they thought that they were above needing the advice. On the bright side, they never even realize that they spent more money than was necessary because they think they have it all figured out and don't seek the opinion of somebody who knows what they're doing.
 
You asked why an agent is needed. I gave a practical answer.

If you feel you can't trust an agent to give you honest help, then by all means spend 4 or 5 hours doing the research yourself.

A word of caution: this is one of those situations where people "don't know what they don't know" and mistakes are made by fairly intelligent people on a regular basis simply because they thought that they were above needing the advice. On the bright side, they never even realize that they spent more money than was necessary because they think they have it all figured out and don't seek the opinion of somebody who knows what they're doing.

And nothing would stop a person from going to an agent instead of an exchange. It would give you one place to side by side shop.
 
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The idea of a transparent market with a homogenous commodity is a good one.

It needs some adjustment but the entire concept of the ACA is good
It really isn't all that transparent. While you can see which plans are available (based on your needs as determined by the computer), you can't see how much someone else pays compared to you. IMO, it's not really any more transparent than meeting with an agent.

I don't mind being able to go online and picking from a number of plans that are on a website I know for a fact is 100% legit. That's not a bad thing. The bloated government bureaucracy that comes with it is a strike against it.

If by "concept of the ACA is good" you mean that "Affordable Care" is good, I agree.Having the government involved in healthcare at an individual level isn't such a good idea. Regulations and standards, licensing of medical professionals, or ensuring the drugs are by and large safe? Sure, those are good ways for government to be involved in healthcare.

Requiring I buy certain kinds of coverage or that insurance companies only offer plans that cover x, y, and Z? NO, the government should not be involved at that level.
 
Sure they can. Are you saying that companies can't offer different coverage items over the base? Different deductibles? Different copayment? All of those are current available.

As long as the bachelor buys a plan with pre-natal care and pediatric dental, right? I mean, what a brilliant idea! Telling a single stock broker that the plan he researched and decided was best for him was no longer available because the government says he needs to have pediatric dental coverage in his plan. Of course that's a great idea. Who wouldn't think that's a really smart idea?
 
Wait... single payer would be a "free market" and the old way is "unfree"?

Paging George Orwell....

I never said that, it is so funny how the right screams "the free market", then they want congress to pass laws to get rid of competition and set up a monopoly. Health care is very different from getting bids on fixing your car or your home. Most people are not going to go out and price out a knee replacement or heart surgery. Go to where they can get the best deal. And even if I wanted too, where is the information? Can I call up Mercy or Methodist in Des Moines and they will quote me a price for a operation? How can every other industrized country in the whole world make socialized medicine work, but we can not here? One reason, they have taken the profit of the middle man out of the equation. Every citizen pays into the system, and then they are covered if they have to go to the hospital. Its not perfect, they do have to tell older people that they are not a good risk for certain operations, but insurance companies do the same thing here. Right now health care makes up 20% of our GDP, that is crazy and unsustainable. We can either do what Trump wants, and take 23 million off of health care, or go to a single payer system that covers everyone. There is not a third choice, as much as the right wants you to believe.
 
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I never said that, it is so funny how the right screams "the free market", then they want congress to pass laws to get rid of competition and set up a monopoly. Health care is very different from getting bids on fixing your car or your home. Most people are not going to go out and price out a knee replacement or heart surgery. Go to where they can get the best deal. And even if I wanted too, where is the information? Can I call up Mercy or Methodist in Des Moines and they will quote me a price for a operation? How can every other industrized country in the whole world make socialized medicine work, but we can not here? One reason, they have taken the profit of the middle man out of the equation. Every citizen pays into the system, and then they are covered if they have to go to the hospital. Its not perfect, they do have to tell older people that they are not a good risk for certain operations, but insurance companies do the same thing here. Right now health care makes up 20% of our GDP, that is crazy and unsustainable. We can either do what Trump wants, and take 23 million off of health care, or go to a single payer system that covers everyone. There is not a third choice, as much as the right wants you to believe.

Most health care choices are not emergencies.

Where do you get information? They have these things called "phones" now days......
 
No one said ACA was perfect, it was not. It was the first step to single payer, that was the hope of the right. Those same people thought that when the problems were found, solutions would be given to change the system to improve it. The Republicans would never do that, no matte how much the Dems wanted to change and improve the system. Look at the original bill, money was in it to provide costs to the insurance companies to make up for adding the people that preexisting conditions. The Rep. axed that money, making sure that the insurance companies would never be able to recoup their costs by offering insurance to these people. ACA is like SS, the right hated it from the start, and wanted to destroy it from its inception. They realized, correctly, that if was successful, people would like it, much like SS, and it would turn into a single payer program. The big money that insurance companies, big meds, ect will be gone. That is why they want to destroy it, and give us the unfree market. Selling insurance over state lines will not fix the problems. Just keep the profits rolling in, is the only thing that matters.
I know virtually no one that likes social security. Most people I know already expect it to be gone when they retire.
 
I see no reason why the online market-place function could not be developed and taken over by Amazon or eBay. ... Both of those companies attempt to find an actual market-determined price for everything they sell. This seems to be the key dynamic that is missing in all of the ACA efforts. Let's go straight to the experts.

It would seem to be a simple case of developing an online format or framework ... and then inviting insurance sellers to offer their products.

Maybe they could get one of those companies to buy the existing "Exchanges***" although I could not imagine that they would be worth very much given that both Amazon and eBay have better technology.

...................

*** I cannot believe that people have actually accepted this terminology, which confuses free markets with simple old-fashioned retail websites. Where is the barter? Where is the brokerage and what is brokered? Nowhere and nothing!!!
 
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When I enrolled for O'Care the MNSure exchange provided me with a list of many, many policies to choose from and it helped me determine if I was eligible for a subsidy (I wasn't). Since I wasn't eligible for a subsidy and the website wasn't functioning properly I bought the policy directly from the company.

It's not unlike how I bought my Medicare Advantage plan.
http://www.medicare2017.org/get-quotes/
 
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I know virtually no one that likes social security. Most people I know already expect it to be gone when they retire.

So you know no one that is retired and drawing SS? Many do not like to pay into the system, and there is fear it may not be there when they retire. I said the same thing when I started paying into the system in 1985, but it still here.
 
So the idea of a public clearinghouse where companies could list their policies in a way that a consumer could comparison shop easily is not an attractive offering?

An insurance agent is worthless. The agent only sells plans from a couple of companies at most.
that's one or two more than the exchanges had towards the end, a lot of states had zero
 
the basic concept would have been ok had they let amazon market it nationwide across state lines , or something
 
Most health care choices are not emergencies.

Where do you get information? They have these things called "phones" now days......

I get my information the same place you do. I know of no one that price shops for an operation. DO you? Can you provide me with a number that I might call to get an updated price list, know a lady getting a knee replacement next month, maybe she can save some money if she shops around. No, most health care is not an emergency, in fact few are. My oldest son had back surgery a couple of months ago, he could have waited, he found the best doctor to do the surgery. Until we take the insurance company out of the equation, health care will never be cheap and affordable, unless you believe in Trump.
 
So you know no one that is retired and drawing SS? Many do not like to pay into the system, and there is fear it may not be there when they retire. I said the same thing when I started paying into the system in 1985, but it still here.
it's technically not still there. there was supposed to be a lock box full of money that nobody touched except for payouts. that never happened. the politicians rob the money. the payouts are "rob peter to pay paul "
 
I get my information the same place you do. I know of no one that price shops for an operation. DO you? Can you provide me with a number that I might call to get an updated price list, know a lady getting a knee replacement next month, maybe she can save some money if she shops around. No, most health care is not an emergency, in fact few are. My oldest son had back surgery a couple of months ago, he could have waited, he found the best doctor to do the surgery. Until we take the insurance company out of the equation, health care will never be cheap and affordable, unless you believe in Trump.
I know of tons of folks who price shop for an operation cause they self insure and pay cash, rich folks


then there are those with insurance and msa who price shop save money
 
I see no reason why the online market-place function could not be developed and taken over by Amazon or eBay. ... Both of those companies attempt to find an actual market-determined price for everything they sell. This seems to be the key dynamic that is missing in all of the ACA efforts. Let's go straight to the experts.

It would seem to be a simple case of developing an online format or framework ... and then inviting insurance sellers to offer their products.

Maybe they could get one of those companies to buy the existing "Exchanges***" although I could not imagine that they would be worth very much given that both Amazon and eBay have better technology.

...................

*** I cannot believe that people have actually accepted this terminology, which confuses free markets with simple old-fashioned retail websites. Where is the barter? Where is the brokerage and what is brokered? Nowhere and nothing!!!
you and I were thinking the same. {amazon} the problem is the insurance departments and state regs.
 
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I get my information the same place you do. I know of no one that price shops for an operation. DO you? Can you provide me with a number that I might call to get an updated price list, know a lady getting a knee replacement next month, maybe she can save some money if she shops around. No, most health care is not an emergency, in fact few are. My oldest son had back surgery a couple of months ago, he could have waited, he found the best doctor to do the surgery. Until we take the insurance company out of the equation, health care will never be cheap and affordable, unless you believe in Trump.
Friend of mine is getting a knee replacement next month. He shopped.
 
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