B1G Coaches have spoken to Kevin Warren about Eliminating "Tackle Basketball"

[Franisdaman]

Multiple B1G basketball coaches have spoken to B1G Commissioner Kevin Warren recently about officiating issues.

Note that one of the goals is consistent officiating that more mirrors how games are called in the NCAA Tournament.

Jeff covers the Hoosiers.

 

[Buffalo43]

I like big ten physically as long as they call it both ways

 

[paladinhawk]

I like big ten physically as long as they call it both ways

I definitely would prefer officiating to more closely mirror how games are called in the tournament games.

 

[hawkland14]

Multiple B1G basketball coaches have spoken to B1G Commissioner Kevin Warren recently about officiating issues.

Note that one of the goals is consistent officiating that more mirrors how games are called in the NCAA Tournament.

Jeff covers the Hoosiers.

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Bingo. Watch a Big Ten basketball game then watch an NBA game and it’s amazing seeing actual “freedom of movement.” That is how the game is meant to be played. The NBA realized that after fans watched brute force boring games of mid 90s Knicks(luckily they had Jordan to bail out their ratings) and mid 2000s Pistons, they had to completely change the rules. The purest form of basketball is played in Association and this is simply because they allow freedom of movement.

 

[Herklejerk]

I definitely would prefer officiating to more closely mirror how games are called in the tournament games.

Indeed. This will not only help the league performance in the tourney, it will help the best teams actually win the league.

 

[Franisdaman]

Bingo. Watch a Big Ten basketball game then watch an NBA game and it’s amazing seeing actual “freedom of movement.” That is how the game is meant to be played. The NBA realized that after fans watched brute force boring games of mid 90s Knicks(luckily they had Jordan to bail out their ratings) and mid 2000s Pistons, they had to completely change the rules. The purest form of basketball is played in Association and this is simply because they allow freedom of movement.

Should the NCAA do what the NBA does and go to a defensive 3 second violation? Not sure what the international rules are.

The NBA game is much more wide open with tons more scoring as a result of defenders not being able to camp out in the lane

 

[Randy Marsh]

The NCAA was incredibly brutish this past year. It was incredibly ugly. NBA basketball is the model and call as many fouls as it takes to get there. Every game.

 

[HawkHoops80]

Should the NCAA do what the NBA does and go to a defensive 3 second violation? Not sure what the international rules are.

The NBA game is much more wide open with tons more scoring as a result of defenders not being able to camp out in the lane

International is same as the NCAA. I'm not sure how I would feel about it, but it certainly would change things. Forcing guys like Edey to guard on the perimeter and not sit back in a zone would have a big effect on how valuable bigs are like it has in the NBA recently.

 

[ROCKY MOUNTAIN HAWK]

The NCAA was incredibly brutish this past year. It was incredibly ugly. NBA basketball is the model and call as many fouls as it takes to get there. Every game.

I’m with you. Tourney games are extremely physical & I think that’s why Iowa falters so much in the Dance.

You have to be able to play the game strong & physical on both ends of the floor if you want to advance.

 

[Franisdaman]

International is same as the NCAA. I'm not sure how I would feel about it, but it certainly would change things. Forcing guys like Edey to guard on the perimeter and not sit back in a zone would have a big effect on how valuable bigs are like it has in the NBA recently.

A defensive 3 seconds rule would also effectively destroy the "pack line" defense of Wisconsin, imo....

 

[anon_b29nm7v7dwp6r]

I’m with you. Tourney games are extremely physical & I think that’s why Iowa falters so much in the Dance.

You have to be able to play the game strong & physical on both ends of the floor if you want to advance.

Yeah, what tournament are these people watching? The NCAA tourney is always physical, and that’s why Frans teams fail.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Maybe the various iterations of the Big Ten's Washington Generals have finally risen in result.

 

[SSG T]

Should the NCAA do what the NBA does and go to a defensive 3 second violation? Not sure what the international rules are.

The NBA game is much more wide open with tons more scoring as a result of defenders not being able to camp out in the lane

It's not the defenders not camping out in the lane, it's the wing defenders not being allowed to grab and hold the offensive players as they move. Spacing is everything, the NBA encourages it, the NCAA, and the B1G in particular, doesn't.

Which is a big reason why I GREATLY prefer watching the NBA.

 

[goodbyebobby]

Fran needs a legit strength coach.

We have always been weak physically

 

[SSG T]

Multiple B1G basketball coaches have spoken to B1G Commissioner Kevin Warren recently about officiating issues.

Note that one of the goals is consistent officiating that more mirrors how games are called in the NCAA Tournament.

Jeff covers the Hoosiers.

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Fran, Woodson and Fred...who else would want the game opened up?

 

[Rifler]

A defensive 3 seconds rule would also effectively destroy the "pack line" defense of Wisconsin, imo....

Phuck Wisconsin...

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

The freedom of movement stuff was being called a few years ago. Izzo cried and we’re back to grabbing, holding, tackling, etc……

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

It all depends on what you want to watch. Want to watch something where the offense can ass a guy all the way to the rim despite the defender being planted in position? Call it accordingly. Want to watch something where everyone is entitled to the space they occupy? Call it accordingly. Want to watch something where guys can grab, pull, shove, etc. a guy to prevent him from getting open? Call it accordingly.
It's basketball--call it according to the rules (novel idea, I know).

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

I’m with you. Tourney games are extremely physical & I think that’s why Iowa falters so much in the Dance.

You have to be able to play the game strong & physical on both ends of the floor if you want to advance.

Strong and physical to me are solid block outs, sitting down and moving your feet on D, getting over screens, etc…..The grabbing, holding bullshit they let teams get away with is ridiculous

 

[perryhawk]

Strong and physical to me are solid block outs, sitting down and moving your feet on D, getting over screens, etc…..The grabbing, holding bullshit they let teams get away with is ridiculous

That's spot on......

*Separately, I'm not sure about this "call it the way it's called in the tournament" idea...the reason I'm not is that I don't think it's called consistently in the tournament. You have different refs from different leagues and I don't believe it's consistent in the tournament either. MAYBE they GENERALLY call pushing, grabbing, etc. a little closer?

 

[Titanhawk2]

It's not like the NCAA has their own refs. Big Ten officials ref tourney games too. Are there complaints about them in those games?

 

[Iafootballfan]

It's funny how teams known for defense prefer officials allowing physicality while teams known for offense want more fouls called. Ultimately everything is about money and fans prefer points over defense - it will change soon because of that.

 

[jberesford]

Anyone else bothered that Terry Wymer is in charge of this in the first place? He was definitely not a guy whose name you liked to hear actually DOING the games...

How many notoriously bad referees can you name that work college football games? Now do the same for Big Ten basketball....

 

[ISUBryceC]

I definitely would prefer officiating to more closely mirror how games are called in the tournament games.

NCAA tournament games are tackle basketball. IMO the most physical league in the country is now the Big 12, it's one of the reasons why there has been a lot of deep runs by teams in the league the last few years.

 

[Iafootballfan]

IMO the most physical league in the country is now the Big 12, it's one of the reasons why there has been a lot of deep runs by teams in the league the last few years.

There was a thread on here last year complaining about how physical the Big 12 teams played in the tournament.

 

[Booty Maximus]

Interview with the guy who had he job before Wymer, some interesting stuff there. Starts around 45 min in.

‎The Moving Screen: A Big Ten College Basketball Podcast: Former Big Ten MBB head Rick Boyages explains officiating; plus thoughts on Purdue, IU, and more on Apple Podcasts

‎Show The Moving Screen: A Big Ten College Basketball Podcast, Ep Former Big Ten MBB head Rick Boyages explains officiating; plus thoughts on Purdue, IU, and more - Jan 10, 2023

podcasts.apple.com

 

[DewHawk]

I definitely would prefer officiating to more closely mirror how games are called in the tournament games.

I agree and I for one do not like full contact BBall. It detracts from the well-coached teams and rewards the muggers (Wis, MSU, Rutgers, etc.). JMO

 

[RocknRollface]

I’m with you. Tourney games are extremely physical & I think that’s why Iowa falters so much in the Dance.

You have to be able to play the game strong & physical on both ends of the floor if you want to advance.

Yeah, from what I've seen the past 5 years the teams that advance past the first week in the ncaa are the most physical ones.

 

[RocknRollface]

It's not like the NCAA has their own refs. Big Ten officials ref tourney games too. Are there complaints about them in those games?

Its a lot of the same guys.

 

[Bro D]

It's not the defenders not camping out in the lane, it's the wing defenders not being allowed to grab and hold the offensive players as they move. Spacing is everything, the NBA encourages it, the NCAA, and the B1G in particular, doesn't.

Which is a big reason why I GREATLY prefer watching the NBA.

I like and appreciate them both for what they are... with that being said, I prefer the NBA game.

Big Ten officiating is awful.... but lets not kid ourselves, NBA officiating sucks too

 

[SSG T]

I like and appreciate them both for what they are... with that being said, I prefer the NBA game.

Big Ten officiating is awful.... but lets not kid ourselves, NBA officiating sucks too

NBA officiating does suck. But in comparing the two, NBA officiating is light years ahead of CBB reffing. There's also expectation that since the NBA refs are "professional", they should be better, which they should be. But, better isn't necessarily good enough.

 

[Bro D]

NBA officiating does suck. But in comparing the two, NBA officiating is light years ahead of CBB reffing. There's also expectation that since the NBA refs are "professional", they should be better, which they should be. But, better isn't necessarily good enough.

My biggest complaint on NBA officiating and pretty much basketball in general is just the consistency. It drives me absolutely insane. OT but Its happened a bunch of times this year while watching the Bulls.. granted they are awful at defense but still. Numerous times the NBA has admitted after the fact too, which is even more frustrating

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

Anyone else bothered that Terry Wymer is in charge of this in the first place? He was definitely not a guy whose name you liked to hear actually DOING the games...

How many notoriously bad referees can you name that work college football games? Now do the same for Big Ten basketball....

Solid point. The only football ref I can think of is the chick with the long ponytail. And no, it's not sexist. She's just absolutely horrible.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

The grabbing, holding bullshit they let teams get away with is ridiculous

... they let [some] teams get away with ...

 

[JRHawk2003]

This is so stupid. A bunch of these officials work games in multiple conferences.

 

[Ree4]

Strong and physical to me are solid block outs, sitting down and moving your feet on D, getting over screens, etc…..The grabbing, holding bullshit they let teams get away with is ridiculous

Agreed. I was watching Iowa play Rutgers and was especially paying attention to how they defended Iowa's dribble drive (mainly in the second half). On several occasions there were multiple no-calls for reaches, three different players slapping at the ball and hitting hands, wrists and arms. That shit needs to stop. It isn't basketball.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

I remember a play in Lickliter's last season. Cully Payne was trying to dribble up the sideline. I think it was Mateen Cleves that had both hands on Cully's chest and hips and was pushing him with both hands. Cully probably covered 30 feet. Big Ten official running right next to the play watched it all and no call. I guess he felt a dog like Mateen would need that extra help against the overwhelming strength of Cully Payne.

My really pet peeve is the defender that goes up to defend a shot and comes down on the shooter after the ball leaves his hands. It isn't a foul in the act of shooting (although for some reason I cannot remember, that might be the NBA rule) per se but it certainly is a foul. A player cannot jump up and then enter the other guy's space by landing on the shooter, or anyone anywhere else on the court. That gets called in other conferences games, although not as often as it should, but it is never ever called in the Big Ten + 6.​

 

[iahawks10]

I remember a play in Lickliter's last season. Cully Payne was trying to dribble up the sideline. I think it was Mateen Cleves that had both hands on Cully's chest and hips and was pushing him with both hands. Cully probably covered 30 feet. Big Ten official running right next to the play watched it all and no call. I guess he felt a dog like Mateen would need that extra help against the overwhelming strength of Cully Payne.

My really pet peeve is the defender that goes up to defend a shot and comes down on the shooter after the ball leaves his hands. It isn't a foul in the act of shooting (although for some reason I cannot remember, that might be the NBA rule) per se but it certainly is a foul. A player cannot jump up and then enter the other guy's space by landing on the shooter, or anyone anywhere else on the court. That gets called in other conferences games, although not as often as it should, but it is never ever called in the Big Ten +​

Cleaves played his last game at MSU nearly a decade before Lickliter’s last season at Iowa. It’s safe to assume it wasn’t Cleaves as even Izzo isn’t breaking those rules.

 

[Bishop1971]

I guess with Warren gone the officiating is going to be ignored at least for now.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Cleaves played his last game at MSU nearly a decade before Lickliter’s last season at Iowa. It’s safe to assume it wasn’t Cleaves as even Izzo isn’t breaking those rules.

I wasn't sure about the Sparty guy, didn't look it up. It was another one of their outstanding guards mugging Cully Payne.