Bather's drop backs

[Eternal Return]

EDIT: Stupid autocorrect made the title "Bather's" and the edit function won't allow me to change it. *sigh*

I boldly re-watched a little of the NW game today and, yes, Croston was pretty bad, but I noticed on two of CJ's sacks (didn't watch the whole game) that he dropped WAYYYYY to deep on a couple drop backs--he had plenty of room to step up or to only drop back five-six steps instead of the seven-eight he dropped back on those plays. So Croston looked horrible on one play in particular but if Beatherd took two steps up (and there was room to take about four steps up) he would have had a perfect pocket and a lot of time to throw.

Given that, I think some of Croston's failures (and perhaps the O-line as a whole on passing downs) may be attributable to CJ being unaware of where he is in the pocket and how the pocket is shaping around him. It seems like he has very low quality pocket presence, a bad feel or bad vision in terms of what is happening around him and even what should be happening around him. I'm telling you, on the one drop back, Croston's man was so far upfield that he would have just passed by CJ over the top and would have had to fight back through Croston to get to him after he passed by. Would have been plenty of time for CJ to complete the pass.

I was surprised to see that as I thought it was all pretty much on the o-line Saturday, but Beatherd created plenty of problems for himself and made the o-line look even worse than it was.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

I think the problem is just that nobody is getting open for S. That and the only receiver that CJ trusted to throttle a tight pass to in coverage, is now looking to play next year as a 5th year senior.

I have listened to the radio for parts of two games. And every game I hear Podolak mention multiple times that NOBODY is getting open. That's a problem. Nobody is open. And nobody to throw a tight pass to.

The only solution to that are two things: make a trade for someone. Which we can't do yet, maybe in 2025. Or develop more crossing routes, down & out sideline passes, slot passes out of the backfield(more Mitchell??) and deepball/fades. I think we ran two sideline passes, Zero crossing routes, two passes out of the backfield, and one deep ball to Smith last game. That isn't going to work. That's not enough.

We need a little more Hayden in our offense. That will keep the defenses honest, and provide at least some chance for receivers to get open. Plus it will help open up the running game.

 

[Eternal Return]

You're partially right, hawkeyeguy, but on the one play when Beatherd got sacked he that I was talking about in particular, he was beginning his motion to throw the ball and I could see the receiver (I think McCarron) breaking free on a slant/crossing pattern (he had a step and if CJ had hit him in stride it looked like it could have been a ten yard gain or so). Like I said, if Beatherd had stepped up in the pocket and STEPPED INTO THE THROW he would have gotten the pass off without even getting hit.

But, yeah, there were other times when receivers weren't getting open, though it's harder to tell from watching the TV replay.

 

[David1979]

Beathard creates some of his own problems in the pocket. Like the op said there are times he seems completely unaware of how the pocket is forming and doesn't ever climb the ladder as they say of the pocket. He isn't being decisive and he isn't throwing the ball away when he can instead of taking a sack.

 

[anon_2zMXH429BhxV1Npk]

We all know part of the problem is the coaching and part of the problem is likely CJ taking less chances, but given the state of things AND no MVB, this is the crossroads that could make or break the season. This is the time where KF and GDGD need to tell CJ to start attacking defenses and taking risks, like he did last year. Tell him not to worry about turning the ball over, make the decision in the first 5-6 seconds whether it's to force a throw or run the ball, and mentally just keep going, don't overthink. He needs to know there really isn't much to lose in the grand scheme of things, with this team a handful of mistakes will not be what tanks the season for us.

Unfortunately, I'm certain this will not happen.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

CJB is holding the ball too long, I will agree with that statement. The problem is Croston doesn't have that quick first drop step and that's why the NW guy was able to get around him. Watch Minny line up a LB/hybrid DE at that spot and just try to use speed to get around him. Iowa is going to have to start using a RB/TE to chip and help. This line is not good enough to protect. Also why not try a "draw" play out of shotgun? I mean it couldn't hurt, that guy was coming upfield so fast, run a draw to his side or a QB draw.

Our WR/TE are not good. It amazes me that Iowa does not have better quality of skill players. Some of our best WR's have not even seen the field because apparently our "playbook" is too complicated for them. I don't understand it, but it sounds like the coaches prefer smart over athletic? Its tough when teams can play your WR man up and the safeties can help in the run game. Makes it tough either way.

Old KF & GD have their work cut out for them. Our offense currently ranks 99th in the country. GD's highest rated offense was last year and that was 52nd. Pretty sad.

 

[Titanhawk2]

Have to agree. NW game was the first I could watch a lot of. Two of those sacks were because CJ just didn't move. The guy simply reached out an arm ( and was still engaged by the blocker) and pulled him down. CJ doesn't seem to move in the pocket this year (and I don't mean taking off on a run)

 

[hexumhawk]

Have to agree. NW game was the first I could watch a lot of. Two of those sacks were because CJ just didn't move. The guy simply reached out an arm ( and was still engaged by the blocker) and pulled him down. CJ doesn't seem to move in the pocket this year (and I don't mean taking off on a run)

Classic Iowa QB senior regression. They start overthinking instead of using instincts worrying about the draft. I also think he is still hurt and not mobile with that knee.

 

[denmar81]

There is talent at the WR position. They're covered because the scheme sucks. When we can make bottom of the pack secondaries look top 10, it's the scheme. Continually throwing short does nothing to help the run game. Stretch the field.

 

[David1979]

Bather is horrible.

 

[soybean]

Bather is horrible.

Yep, a wasted scholly.

 

[whatsup13579er]

There is talent at the WR position. They're covered because the scheme sucks. When we can make bottom of the pack secondaries look top 10, it's the scheme. Continually throwing short does nothing to help the run game. Stretch the field.

The WR's have struggled against the press coverage teams have been playing. That throws off the timing of the passing game and takes even more time for those long routes to develop. Protection is an issue combined with the press coverage issue and with CJ not feeling the pressure very well has created a perfect storm in our passing game.

 

[championhawk]

EDIT: Stupid autocorrect made the title "Bather's" and the edit function won't allow me to change it. *sigh*

I boldly re-watched a little of the NW game today and, yes, Croston was pretty bad, but I noticed on two of CJ's sacks (didn't watch the whole game) that he dropped WAYYYYY to deep on a couple drop backs--he had plenty of room to step up or to only drop back five-six steps instead of the seven-eight he dropped back on those plays. So Croston looked horrible on one play in particular but if Beatherd took two steps up (and there was room to take about four steps up) he would have had a perfect pocket and a lot of time to throw.

Given that, I think some of Croston's failures (and perhaps the O-line as a whole on passing downs) may be attributable to CJ being unaware of where he is in the pocket and how the pocket is shaping around him. It seems like he has very low quality pocket presence, a bad feel or bad vision in terms of what is happening around him and even what should be happening around him. I'm telling you, on the one drop back, Croston's man was so far upfield that he would have just passed by CJ over the top and would have had to fight back through Croston to get to him after he passed by. Would have been plenty of time for CJ to complete the pass.

I was surprised to see that as I thought it was all pretty much on the o-line Saturday, but Beatherd created plenty of problems for himself and made the o-line look even worse than it was.

Have you watched previous games where he attempted to step into the pocket and got decapitated? Our line is really bad and the receivers can't get open. CJ is a long ways down the list of problems.

 

[Eternal Return]

Classic Iowa QB senior regression. They start overthinking instead of using instincts worrying about the draft. I also think he is still hurt and not mobile with that knee.

I have really thought this was a horse**** analysis in the past, but I'm coming around to seeing that it might be right. There is something going on that makes the senior QBs that have one or more years of starting experience seem much more hesitant, less confident than in their prior years. It couldn't possibly be that all of them were hurt their senior years, right?

I remember reading about the Minnesota Vikings coaches trying to get Teddy Bridgewater to open up more, to trust his arm strength and accuracy to make throws into tighter windows, basically telling him that in order to be a successful QB in the NFL that he HAD to be able to make those throws and complete them. This was an offseason article and obviously Bridgewater went down, got hurt before he could try to implement this, but that advice is pretty much the opposite of what we hear from Iowa coaches who seem to harp almost exclusively on ball security at the expense of making plays. A QB has to trust himself to take what appear to others with less ability and knowledge think are risky throws. There has to be a balance in stressing the importance of ball control and playmaking.

 

[Eternal Return]

Have you watched previous games where he attempted to step into the pocket and got decapitated? Our line is really bad and the receivers can't get open. CJ is a long ways down the list of problems.

Yes, I have. On the specific plays I mentioned in this post, though, there was a TON of room to step up in the pocket. In other words, the interior lineman were doing their jobs incredibly well and the NW DE took really deep angles to beat Croston on speed rushes which would not have led to sacks or pressures if CJ had stepped up in the pocket, but he looked completely unaware--he was unaware! The other thing to note is that in the previous two games Daniels wasn't at center and Welsh was in and out. The interior line was not the big problem against NW, it was the tackles and CJ not having pocket awareness AT ALL!