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BBAll Players Going to Australia to go Pro Out of High School

cigaretteman

HB King
May 29, 2001
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One and done is a farce. It should be like baseball. Let them go pro out of high school, but if they go to college they have to stay 3 years:

Terrance Ferguson, a recent graduate of a charter school in Dallas, begins many days by taking in the view of Gulf St. Vincent from his three-story townhouse in Adelaide, Australia. He sometimes sees dolphins swimming in the waters below, which he considers “pretty cool.” He also likes to check in with peers back home who are preparing for classes as college freshmen.

“A lot of them are like, ‘Man, I should have done what you did,’” Ferguson said.

What he did was become a professional basketball player at 18 — at a time when he had expected to be playing for the University of Arizona — despite being too young for the N.B.A. draft. Not long after announcing his decision in a first-person essay in The Players’ Tribune in June, Ferguson packed up and joined the Adelaide 36ers of Australia’s National Basketball League.

By playing for the 36ers, Ferguson, a 6-foot-7 guard, receives housing, a car and compensation in the mid-six figures (because of various marketing arrangements) as he prepares for the N.B.A. draft next June, when he will meet the league’s age requirements. A likely first-round pick, he also has endorsement deals with Under Armour and PSD Underwear. He was excited about a coming photo shoot.

“I won’t have to pay for underwear ever again!” he said during a recent telephone interview.

Ferguson, of course, is not the first high-profile American teenager to head overseas rather than take the one-and-done route to the N.B.A.: a one-year pit stop at a big-time college program, then on to the draft. But he is believed to be the first to have been actively recruited by a team from Australia, a country that could lure more young stars away from the college game and emerge as the incubator of choice for N.B.A. prospects.

This all began in April, when Ferguson, a McDonald’s all-American, played in the Nike Hoop Summit in Portland, Ore. After the game, he said, his mother, Rachelle Holdman, delivered some unexpected news: A representative from an Australian team wanted to meet with them over dinner.

At the time, neither Ferguson nor his mother knew that Australia even had a professional league. But over breadsticks at Olive Garden, Ferguson learned about the 36ers and about the potential benefits of spending a season, and earning a paycheck, overseas.

Since 2006, the N.B.A. draft rules have required players to be 19 and at least one year removed from high school. Those rules ended the era of stars like Kobe Bryant, LeBron James and Kevin Garnett — as well as a few notable busts — who bypassed college for the N.B.A. The age rule is unlikely to change when the league finalizes its new collective bargaining agreement with the players’ union.

Thus, the quandary for high-caliber players like Ferguson: a year of college or a season abroad? To some, the choice is simple.

“No businessman would sit out a year of earning,” said Joey Wright, the coach of the 36ers. “So why would a basketball player? The N.C.A.A. will preach the value of a college education. Well, if you want an education, go play in the N.B.A. and then study in the off-season. You can pay for it yourself.”

As Ferguson mulled his decision, he reached out to Emmanuel Mudiay, a friend and former teammate who had opted to play in China before the Denver Nuggets made him the No. 7 overall selection in the 2015 draft. Ferguson said that Mudiay expressed some discomfort about his experience in China — most of it related to the language barrier.

“He had no one to talk to,” Ferguson said, “especially on his down days.”

That, in part, was why Australia had been so appealing to Ferguson — and why the National Basketball League could attract more young American players.

“He had more than just this opportunity to go overseas, but this was just the most logical because of the language and the culture not being so different,” said Holdman, who moved to Adelaide to be with her son until the season ends in February.

“It’s just so new that I think a lot of kids don’t know about this option,” she said. “But I’m already hearing from other parents.”

Mudiay’s decision to sign with the Guangdong Southern Tigers had stemmed partly from accreditation concerns related to his high school, Prime Prep Academy, the now-shuttered Dallas-area charter school founded by the former N.F.L. star Deion Sanders. Ferguson had also attended Prime Prep, but transferred to Advanced Preparatory International, another charter school in Dallas that has drawn similar scrutiny from the N.C.A.A.

Reports circulated in the spring that Ferguson’s eligibility at Arizona was in question, but Ferguson said he would have been able to play as a freshman. Holdman said that her son had largely been home-schooled and that he had taken only electives at Advanced Preparatory International, although it issued him a diploma.

In the end, none of that mattered. Ferguson did not seem to regret missing out on college, and he added his voice to a growing chorus of critics who see the N.C.A.A. as a bastion of obsolete concepts of amateurism.

“The schools make a lot from you,” Ferguson said. “The coaches make a lot from you. But you’re really getting nothing from it — just the basketball experience, the college experience. Education is obviously important. But what are you really getting out of it if you only go for one year?”

Ferguson’s agent, Happy Walters of Catalyst Sports and Media, said the one-and-done route made little sense for the handful of players each year who are skilled enough to make a quick transition to the N.B.A.


“If a kid can start making 500 grand at age 18, that’s a year that you can’t get back if you decide to go to school,” Walters said. “For Terrance, he’s practicing and developing and taking advantages of opportunities that he wouldn’t have otherwise gotten in college.”

Wright, the Adelaide coach, said Ferguson’s maturity had impressed him. He works hard. He does not complain.

Wright often summons Ferguson to the gym for late-night workouts. “And I know Terrance will show up,” he said.

Ferguson was averaging 7.3 points per game off the bench as of Friday. His production may sound modest, but his coaches have been pleased with his progress. He is, after all, playing against grown men, and the 36ers did not sign him with the expectation that he would dominate the league. Instead, they hoped that he would be a consistent contributor, create some buzz and cement Adelaide as a destination for other American players with similar goals.

“To have a guy like that here, our fans can always say that he was a 36er when he’s off playing in the N.B.A.,” Wright said. “That’s big for people here. It connects them to the N.B.A., and it’s important for our marketing. Our logo was on ESPN. That’s not going to happen very often.”

Wright said he had already been approached by rival teams wanting to know how the 36ers had landed Ferguson.

“I told them, ‘No, I ain’t doing that,” said Wright, a former player at the University of Texas. “They said, ‘What do you mean?’ And I was like, ‘We ain’t that close!’”

For the 36ers, signing a player like Ferguson became feasible only when the National Basketball League made a significant rule change ahead of this season, increasing the permitted number of foreign-born players, or “imports,” on each team from two to three.

In past seasons, Wright needed to know that his two imports could be effective players right from the start — seasoned professionals, in other words. It would have been too much to expect an 18-year-old, even one as talented as Ferguson, to step in and assume that sort of role.


But being allowed a third import allowed Wright to gamble on youth.

The idea, Wright said, was proposed to him by Raheim Brown, a friend who is in the process of helping to start the Dream Basketball Academy, an Adelaide-based training center that Brown hopes will become a destination for promising players with N.B.A. ambitions.

Brown showed Wright some film of Ferguson, and Wright thought Ferguson’s skill set, his shooting ability in particular, translated well to the National Basketball League.

Ferguson, whose mother has dinner waiting for him when he gets home from practice, said that he had been enjoying life as a foreigner.

“It’s just the accent that kills me,” he said.

Another challenge has been learning (and remembering) to drive on the left side of the road.

“It’s scary every time, man,” he said. “I feel like my life’s in danger.”



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/13/s...ng.html&eventName=Watching-article-click&_r=0
 
The one and done rule has been great for the NBA, I don't see any reason why they would go back to allowing high schoolers in to the draft.
 
Why would they have to stay 3 years if they went to college?

I'm guessing he wrote that because that's the way that baseball works. You can get drafted out of high school and go pro immediately. If you get drafted and don't like where you went you can go to college, but you won't be eligible to be drafted again for 3 years. Then if you get drafted again and don't like that you can go back to school for your fourth year and be eligible for the draft again.

The concept being that the best of the best can go pro right out of high school. But the rest have to go to college for several years. That works great for MLB since there seem to be about 800 rounds in the amateur draft. But basketball has only two rounds. So if you draft a guy at 20, and he doesn't want to play for you, that's it. You wasted your pick.

The only way this works is if the NBA added additional rounds to the draft and either got rid of the set contract amounts for each position in the first round so that they can pay more for a kid that doesn't want to play for a specific team, or required that any player drafted in the first round will no longer be eligible in the future, meaning the drafting team retains their rights even if they go to college. Otherwise the teams won't go for it with that much risk of wasting a first round pick.
 
I'm guessing he wrote that because that's the way that baseball works. You can get drafted out of high school and go pro immediately. If you get drafted and don't like where you went you can go to college, but you won't be eligible to be drafted again for 3 years. Then if you get drafted again and don't like that you can go back to school for your fourth year and be eligible for the draft again.

The concept being that the best of the best can go pro right out of high school. But the rest have to go to college for several years. That works great for MLB since there seem to be about 800 rounds in the amateur draft. But basketball has only two rounds. So if you draft a guy at 20, and he doesn't want to play for you, that's it. You wasted your pick.

The only way this works is if the NBA added additional rounds to the draft and either got rid of the set contract amounts for each position in the first round so that they can pay more for a kid that doesn't want to play for a specific team, or required that any player drafted in the first round will no longer be eligible in the future, meaning the drafting team retains their rights even if they go to college. Otherwise the teams won't go for it with that much risk of wasting a first round pick.
Nice explanation.

We don't place these restrictions on employment options on other occupations. It seems unfair just because you choice sports you have to follow rules that seem to be put in place to benefit Pro Sports and/or the NCAA.
 
Nice explanation.

We don't place these restrictions on employment options on other occupations. It seems unfair just because you choice sports you have to follow rules that seem to be put in place to benefit Pro Sports and/or the NCAA.

That's why the NCAA and Colleges are so adamant in insisting that "student athletes" are not employees. The basketball one and done rule makes a mockery of the term "student athlete."
 
Nice explanation.

We don't place these restrictions on employment options on other occupations. It seems unfair just because you choice sports you have to follow rules that seem to be put in place to benefit Pro Sports and/or the NCAA.

The NBA requiring kids to be one year removed from high school is just protecting their business. It's no different than a company requiring employees to have a college degree. The NBA saves money and resources on scouting not having to go watch high school games all over, they get the benefit of seeing the kids play against better competition in college, and NCAA basketball also provides unbelievable free marketing for the NBA. If guys like Durant or Carmelo would have went pro right out of high school, they would have been known to only hardcore hoop fans. After just one year in college, they are marketable stars from day one.

If kids don't want to go to school, they don't have to. They can play in the D-League right out of high school, they can play overseas, there are plenty of options for them to get paid playing basketball.
 
I have a question. . . he's got modest production in a league made up of guys who are not good enough for the NBA and the NBA is going to draft him in the first round?

I don't watch a lot of pro-basketball so maybe I'm mistaken but before the 1 and done rule didn't most of the highly touted high school players that where drafted by the NBA that did well start and put up a lot more then 7 points a game?

But they want a guy who's a bench player from a league that is well below the NBA in terms of talent?
 
The NBA requiring kids to be one year removed from high school is just protecting their business. It's no different than a company requiring employees to have a college degree. The NBA saves money and resources on scouting not having to go watch high school games all over, they get the benefit of seeing the kids play against better competition in college, and NCAA basketball also provides unbelievable free marketing for the NBA. If guys like Durant or Carmelo would have went pro right out of high school, they would have been known to only hardcore hoop fans. After just one year in college, they are marketable stars from day one.

If kids don't want to go to school, they don't have to. They can play in the D-League right out of high school, they can play overseas, there are plenty of options for them to get paid playing basketball.

Scouting them in college I think is probably a big reason why they did it. With high school players it's hard to gauge how good they are because the level of competition is too low.
 
I have a question. . . he's got modest production in a league made up of guys who are not good enough for the NBA and the NBA is going to draft him in the first round?

I don't watch a lot of pro-basketball so maybe I'm mistaken but before the 1 and done rule didn't most of the highly touted high school players that where drafted by the NBA that did well start and put up a lot more then 7 points a game?

But they want a guy who's a bench player from a league that is well below the NBA in terms of talent?

I don't know about this league specifically, but most of the guys who are drafted from overseas have pretty modest stats. A lot of the time they are not starters as it's hard for younger guys to crack the starting lineup and they have limited playing time. These leagues are not as good as the NBA obviously but they are filled with grown men, many who were pretty successful college players, the top Europe leagues all provide much better competition than college basketball.
 
I would like the NBA to put more $ towards the D league & have more would-be freshman play in the D league.
 
I would like the NBA to put more $ towards the D league & have more would-be freshman play in the D league.

It's weird that they don't. I think it makes a lot of sense to expand rosters to 17-18 guys with a couple spots being developmental spots at a lower salary where they would have full control over them for two years and then either have to put them on their 15 man roster or waive their rights. The D-League is a weird place in that not every NBA team has their own team and you have a mix of players under team control and free agents.
 
I have a question. . . he's got modest production in a league made up of guys who are not good enough for the NBA and the NBA is going to draft him in the first round?

I don't watch a lot of pro-basketball so maybe I'm mistaken but before the 1 and done rule didn't most of the highly touted high school players that where drafted by the NBA that did well start and put up a lot more then 7 points a game?

But they want a guy who's a bench player from a league that is well below the NBA in terms of talent?

Jonathon Bender was taken #5 overall by the Raptors in 1999, his best season was 2001-02, 7.3pts and 3.1 rbs. Knee injuries limited him to 76 total games his next 4 seasons, then missed next 3 seasons. Played 25 games for the Knicks at 29, his last season.

Darius Miles was taken #3 overall in 2000 by the Clippers, his best season was 03-04 when he averaged 10.9 pts, 4.5 rbs for the Cavs and Blazers. He then had a confrontation with Coach Mo Cheeks that limited his PT and a knee injury sidelined him for part of a season and surgery to correct it caused him to miss 2 full seasons. Averaged 3.1 and 1.7 in 34 games at age 27, his last year, with the Grizzlies.

Kwame Brown was the #1 overall pick in 2001 by the Wizards. He played 12 seasons for 7 teams. His best season was 03-04 for the Wiz, 10.9 pts, 7.4 rbs.

There are quite a few who didn't even come close to those careers. Korleone Young played one season, 4.3/1.3. Leon Smith had psychological problems and didn't play for a year. He ended up playing 15 games over 2 seasons. James Lang was drafted in 2003 by the Hornets, he played 11 games for the Wizards in 2006.

Many were really good. Many had no business being in the NBA at 18 or 19.

Keep in mind, I have no problem with the old rule, one just needs to keep in mind that because a kid wants to play in the NBA at 18 doesn't mean he should. That's as much on the teams and his advisors as it is on him.
 
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I would like the NBA to put more $ towards the D league & have more would-be freshman play in the D league.

Given the number of roster spots and the number of open spots in a given year, it's really not cost effective for a team to spend a ton on player development. That's the biggest difference between baseball and basketball. In basketball, you need a draft pick to be good quickly, you can't afford to wait 2-3-4 years, not when guys are coming out of college at 20 or 21 NBA ready. In baseball, you can draft a kid at 18 and afford to wait until he's 22/23/24 for him to get it.

I'd actually think a player development program would be better suited to the NFL than basketball.
 
I don't watch a lot of pro-basketball so maybe I'm mistaken but before the 1 and done rule didn't most of the highly touted high school players that where drafted by the NBA that did well start and put up a lot more then 7 points a game?
Kobe averaged 7 ppg in his rookie year out of high school. Kevin Garnett averaged 10ppg. It generally takes time for players to develop before they start tearing up the court. Lebron being an exception because he was built like an NBA player in high school. NBA teams draft on potential. That's why a true freshman that averages 10 points and 6 rebounds per game in college will get drafted before a senior that averages 18 points and 6 rebounds.
 
I personally love everything about this. He doesn't have to waste time with studying to focus on basketball 100%. He's also getting to learn to be a pro away from the NBA (which has way more bad temptations) and has the opportunity to learn a new culture. It's good for everyone.
 
Kobe averaged 7 ppg in his rookie year out of high school. Kevin Garnett averaged 10ppg. It generally takes time for players to develop before they start tearing up the court. Lebron being an exception because he was built like an NBA player in high school. NBA teams draft on potential. That's why a true freshman that averages 10 points and 6 rebounds per game in college will get drafted before a senior that averages 18 points and 6 rebounds.

Exactly. Look at Iowa's own Ricky Davis. None of us expected him to be a first rounder after one year in college, but the NBA is different than the NFL. They look for potential and don't care as much about in game statistics.

Compare Ricky to a guy like Uthoff who has probably maxed out his potential after 5 years in college. Even though his senior year was significantly better than Ricky's one year, he wasn't drafted.

The more and more that I think about it, the more I like what I proposed earlier.
1. Player can declare for the draft after high school as well as sign a college LOI. If he gets drafted in the first round his draft rights stay with the drafting team for 3 years and he gets a guaranteed pre-defined salary contract. If he doesn't want to go pro right away he can still go to college and leave at any time but he can't re-enter the draft unless 3 years elapsed, otherwise his rights belong to the original drafting team.

If he doesn't get drafted in the first round he can choose to go the NBA route and fight for a contract/roster spot. Or he can go the college route and reenter the draft after 3 years. He has the option to return to school again repeat the process in a year.

I'd also have the NBA draft expand to 4 rounds so that teams can draft seniors in the later rounds to help cover their rear ends if one of the earlier underclassmen picks decides to go to school.
 
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Given the number of roster spots and the number of open spots in a given year, it's really not cost effective for a team to spend a ton on player development. That's the biggest difference between baseball and basketball. In basketball, you need a draft pick to be good quickly, you can't afford to wait 2-3-4 years, not when guys are coming out of college at 20 or 21 NBA ready. In baseball, you can draft a kid at 18 and afford to wait until he's 22/23/24 for him to get it.

I'd actually think a player development program would be better suited to the NFL than basketball.

nba-toronto-raptors-minnesota-timberwolves.jpg
 
Exactly. Look at Iowa's own Ricky Davis. None of us expected him to be a first rounder after one year in college, but the NBA is different than the NFL. They look for potential and don't care as much about in game statistics.

Compare Ricky to a guy like Uthoff who has probably maxed out his potential after 5 years in college. Even though his senior year was significantly better than Ricky's one year, he wasn't drafted.

The more and more that I think about it, the more I like what I proposed earlier.
1. Player can declare for the draft after high school as well as sign a college LOI. If he gets drafted in the first round his draft rights stay with the drafting team for 3 years and he gets a guaranteed pre-defined salary contract. If he doesn't want to go pro right away he can still go to college and leave at any time but he can't re-enter the draft unless 3 years elapsed, otherwise his rights belong to the original drafting team.

If he doesn't get drafted in the first round he can choose to go the NBA route and fight for a contract/roster spot. Or he can go the college route and reenter the draft after 3 years. He has the option to return to school again repeat the process in a year.

I'd also have the NBA draft expand to 4 rounds so that teams can draft seniors in the later rounds to help cover their rear ends if one of the earlier underclassmen picks decides to go to school.

Why would the NBA want any of that? You're looking at it from a college basketball perspective, it's an NBA rule.
 
Kobe averaged 7 ppg in his rookie year out of high school. Kevin Garnett averaged 10ppg. It generally takes time for players to develop before they start tearing up the court. Lebron being an exception because he was built like an NBA player in high school. NBA teams draft on potential. That's why a true freshman that averages 10 points and 6 rebounds per game in college will get drafted before a senior that averages 18 points and 6 rebounds.

That surprises me a bit. I thought the NBA was a league where you hit your prime much quicker then the NFL. But like I said I don't pay that much attention to the NBA.
 
Jonathon Bender was taken #5 overall by the Raptors in 1999, his best season was 2001-02, 7.3pts and 3.1 rbs. Knee injuries limited him to 76 total games his next 4 seasons, then missed next 3 seasons. Played 25 games for the Knicks at 29, his last season.

Darius Miles was taken #3 overall in 2000 by the Clippers, his best season was 03-04 when he averaged 10.9 pts, 4.5 rbs for the Cavs and Blazers. He then had a confrontation with Coach Mo Cheeks that limited his PT and a knee injury sidelined him for part of a season and surgery to correct it caused him to miss 2 full seasons. Averaged 3.1 and 1.7 in 34 games at age 27, his last year, with the Grizzlies.

Kwame Brown was the #1 overall pick in 2001 by the Wizards. He played 12 seasons for 7 teams. His best season was 03-04 for the Wiz, 10.9 pts, 7.4 rbs.

There are quite a few who didn't even come close to those careers. Korleone Young played one season, 4.3/1.3. Leon Smith had psychological problems and didn't play for a year. He ended up playing 15 games over 2 seasons. James Lang was drafted in 2003 by the Hornets, he played 11 games for the Wizards in 2006.

Many were really good. Many had no business being in the NBA at 18 or 19.

Keep in mind, I have no problem with the old rule, one just needs to keep in mind that because a kid wants to play in the NBA at 18 doesn't mean he should. That's as much on the teams and his advisors as it is on him.

Well I think as I said on another post it would make sense that the NBA would want them to spend a year playing in college. It should make scouting easier due to level of competition. High school competition is so far below the NBA level that I would imagine it's very difficult to scout based on that.
 
That surprises me a bit. I thought the NBA was a league where you hit your prime much quicker then the NFL. But like I said I don't pay that much attention to the NBA.
NBA players generally won't hit their prime until their mid to late 20's. Obviously that varies depending on the guy. But it also explains why there's so many Top 10 Picks that never end up being stars. They're being drafted based on potential, and not their current abilities.
 
1 and done is only an NBA rule, not NCAA or applicable to any other league. NFL has a similar rule, I believe 3 years. MLB has rules if you are in college, get drafted early but don't go
 
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