Belief in Demons

[naturalmwa]

I'm watching Turn on AMC and the topic of demons has come up twice in the script. The writers have both a doctor and a military officer appear to express a belief that demons might be the source of some condition.

This surprised me. Anyone know if such beliefs were actually popularly accepted around 1776? Anyone still believe demons posses people forcing them to act against their will or cause illness?

 

[ANYCHawk]

This surprised me. Anyone know if such beliefs were actually popularly accepted around 1776?

Never read the crucible huh?

 

[naturalmwa]

Never read the crucible huh?

Didn't that take place a century earlier than the revolution?

Yep, that was set in 1692.

 

[ANYCHawk]

Didn't that take place a century earlier than the revolution?

Yep, that was set in 1692.

Yeah and it's not hard to fathom that idea would continue 100 years later.

 

[swagsurfer02]

White Devils everywhere!

 

[rchawk]

Didn't that take place a century earlier than the revolution?

Yep, that was set in 1692.

The Salem witch trials were less than a century in the past. I like Turn, maybe the show's writers are taking advantage of stereotypes we will buy of colonial times. Still, it's not hard to imagine that some very religious people (for that time and place) still believed in demons.

Accepted medical practice at the time was to bleed sick people. Drain their blood so the bad stuff in the blood was out of the body and no longer a threat. Those were doctors, some of the more educated people in their neighborhoods.

 

[naturalmwa]

The Salem witch trials were less than a century in the past. I like Turn, maybe the show's writers are taking advantage of stereotypes we will buy of colonial times. Still, it's not hard to imagine that some very religious people (for that time and place) still believed in demons.

Accepted medical practice at the time was to bleed sick people. Drain their blood so the bad stuff in the blood was out of the body and no longer a threat. Those were doctors, some of the more educated people in their neighborhoods.

I knew about the blood letting and one of the demon guys in the script was a doctor.

 

[rchawk]

The Salem witch trials were less than a century in the past. I like Turn, maybe the show's writers are taking advantage of stereotypes we will buy of colonial times. Still, it's not hard to imagine that some very religious people (for that time and place) still believed in demons.

Accepted medical practice at the time was to bleed sick people. Drain their blood so the bad stuff in the blood was out of the body and no longer a threat. Those were doctors, some of the more educated people in their neighborhoods.

Historical trivia- Nathaniel Hawthorne, author of "The Scarlet Letter" and "The House of the Seven Gables" changed his name from Hathorne. His ancestor was John Hathorne, judge at the Salem witch trials.

 

[naturalmwa]

Historical trivia- Nathaniel Hawthorne, author of "The Scarlet Letter" and "The House of the Seven Gables" changed his name from Hathorne. His ancestor was John Hathorne, judge at the Salem witch trials.

Would it be proper to interpret this as him being embarrassed by that ancestor? Would that be because the belief in witches was on the outs by the mid 1800's or is that assuming too much?

 

[rchawk]

Would it be proper to interpret this as him being embarrassed by that ancestor? Would that be because the belief in witches was on the outs by the mid 1800's or is that assuming too much?

If I recall correctly Hawthorne was embarrassed by his ancestor the judge. He was writing in the 1850s I think, the decade before the Civil War. Beliefs in witches and demons were probably long gone among learned folks. In more rural areas, maybe not so much.

He was writing of puritan times but also had an eye on current events. If you watched the classic Ken Burns show you may remember that Hawthorne said of John Brown "No man was more justly hanged." I agree with him.

 

[PCBHAWK]

A person with seizures was screwed back in the day.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

I believe demons exist in 2015 and the church which I attend, the pastor preaches that they exist right now

 

[Lone Clone]

I thought I'd watched all the "Turn" episodes but this doesn't ring a bell.

 

[IMCC965]

If I recall correctly Hawthorne was embarrassed by his ancestor the judge. He was writing in the 1850s I think, the decade before the Civil War. Beliefs in witches and demons were probably long gone among learned folks. In more rural areas, maybe not so much.

He was writing of puritan times but also had an eye on current events. If you watched the classic Ken Burns show you may remember that Hawthorne said of John Brown "No man was more justly hanged." I agree with him.

Sounds like Ben Affleck.

 

[TexMichFan]

Everybody has a demon on their left shoulder and an angel on their right shoulder.

 

[naturalmwa]

I thought I'd watched all the "Turn" episodes but this doesn't ring a bell.

It was last nights episode which IIRC was titled Valley Forge. Washington is getting examined and the doctor tells him he has melancholia which can be in two forms, natural caused by an affliction of the spirit (stress) or unnatural caused by a demon. Later the English major guy, the good one, is being interegated and suggests demons which the interrogators immediately accept as possible.

 

[22*43*51]

The Salem witch trials were less than a century in the past.

The Salem witch trials were in the Roaring 20's?

 

[Lone Clone]

It was last nights episode which IIRC was titled Valley Forge. Washington is getting examined and the doctor tells him he has melancholia which can be in two forms, natural caused by an affliction of the spirit (stress) or unnatural caused by a demon. Later the English major guy, the good one, is being interegated and suggests demons which the interrogators immediately accept as possible.

I haven't watched last night's episode yet. I'm curious as to how they're going to get Peggy Shiffen out of Andre's bed and married to Benedict Arnold. That has to happen pretty quickly.

 

[kinnick.crusader]

Lots of people still believe in God, and even pray to him to intervene in their daily lives.

I don't see that as a gigantic leap from believing in demons or evil spirits roaming the Earth and being involved in various shenanigans. I mean, aren't there several reality TV series based almost entirely on this premise?

 

[THE_DEVIL]

I have no comment on this topic one way or the other.

 

[Chuck C]

http://www.demontest.com

 

[Lone Clone]

It was last nights episode which IIRC was titled Valley Forge. Washington is getting examined and the doctor tells him he has melancholia which can be in two forms, natural caused by an affliction of the spirit (stress) or unnatural caused by a demon. Later the English major guy, the good one, is being interegated and suggests demons which the interrogators immediately accept as possible.

Very strange episode. Somebody ought to kill that Simcoe son of a bitch.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

Lots of people still believe in God, and even pray to him to intervene in their daily lives.

I don't see that as a gigantic leap from believing in demons or evil spirits roaming the Earth and being involved in various shenanigans. I mean, aren't there several reality TV series based almost entirely on this premise?

if one believes in god it's most likely that they also believe in demons, the ying and the yang, the black and the white, good and evil

 

[naturalmwa]

Very strange episode. Somebody ought to kill that Simcoe son of a bitch.

Any idea how historically accurate the show is trying to be?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I'm watching Turn on AMC and the topic of demons has come up twice in the script. The writers have both a doctor and a military officer appear to express a belief that demons might be the source of some condition.

This surprised me. Anyone know if such beliefs were actually popularly accepted around 1776? Anyone still believe demons posses people forcing them to act against their will or cause illness?

I did a poll here a good while ago. IIRC something over 40% of HROTters believe demons are real. Not as high as belief in angels. According to The Newsroom belief in angels across the US is over 70% and is the highest among developed nations.

Christians are required to believe in demons, so I'm surprised the number isn't higher. Jesus had conversations with demons. Unless you think Jesus was hallucinating or nuts, I think that has to mean demons are real - if you are a believer. It's not written like a passage you can interpret as metaphor.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Any idea how historically accurate the show is trying to be?

I was wondering, too. I don't recall reading that Washington was a schizo who saw and talked with visual hallucinations or flew into contextually-inappropriate fits of rage.

 

[kinnick.crusader]

if one believes in god it's most likely that they also believe in demons, the ying and the yang, the black and the white, good and evil

We're all aware that you believe in a lot of crazy shit, you raving nutbag.

 

[naturalmwa]

I did a poll here a good while ago. IIRC something over 40% of HROTters believe demons are real. Not as high as belief in angels. According to The Newsroom belief in angels across the US is over 70% and is the highest among developed nations.

Christians are required to believe in demons, so I'm surprised the number isn't higher. Jesus had conversations with demons. Unless you think Jesus was hallucinating or nuts, I think that has to mean demons are real - if you are a believer. It's not written like a passage you can interpret as metaphor.

I get this. Some how in my mind demons and angels for believers were more metaphorical representations than actual actors in our lives. But in the show apparently they were thought reasonable causes of sickness or even murder. Would we expect a demon excuse to believable in a court of law today? I can't imagine most Christians really take their faith that far today.

 

[TunzaHawk]

I have delt with some seriously mentally ill folk that one could come to the belief they were possessed by some demonic force. Bat ish crazy stuff.

 

[iCRUNCH]

 

[rchawk]

I have no comment on this topic one way or the other.

You are just trying to keep a low profile THE_DEVIL. Haven't seen the last Turn episode yet, but I've watched a lot of Buffy and Supernatural. I know what you are up to!

Don't act all innocent like poor DEVIL. I've seen it on TV!

You should be ashamed of youself- except for probably having the hottest chicks and best sex "down there." I will try to resist so I can sit on a cloud and play my harp through eternity. And on Fridays we get fish sticks.

 

[naturalmwa]

You are just trying to keep a low profile THE_DEVIL. Haven't seen the last Turn episode yet, but I've watched a lot of Buffy and Supernatural. I know what you are up to!

Don't act all innocent like poor DEVIL. I've seen it on TV!

You should be ashamed of youself- except for probably having the hottest chicks and best sex "down there." I will try to resist so I can sit on a cloud and play my harp through eternity. And on Fridays we get fish sticks.

You must really like harp music.

 

[kinnick.crusader]

I have delt with some seriously mentally ill folk that one could come to the belief they were possessed by some demonic force. Bat ish crazy stuff.

Yes, we're all quite familiar with OiT's work.

 

[rchawk]

You must really like harp music.

Not so much, just heard it once at the Drake Hotel. Maybe it grows on you after a few million years.

 

[naturalmwa]

Not so much, just heard it once at the Drake Hotel. Maybe it grows on you after a few million years.

If you get a weekend pass I'll take you clubbing in hell.