Ben Shapiro writes an editorial for Politico and everyone freaks out
- Thread starter FAUlty Gator
- Start date
"You're ignoring the science! Ask me questions!!!"
"What's the science to which you refer?"
"Google it."
Top notch, you dumbfvck.
Humans don't have binocular vision or ten fingers because some people are born with one eye or eleven fingers.
What defines a woman? I understand what you've said regarding menstruating not defining what female is. What is a woman? Is it not an adult human female?
Yes. And no where does your definition mention "menstruating". To do so would be idiotic.
And, as I stated, I understand what you've said regarding menstruating. I'm not saying to be a woman one must menstruate. Perhaps you're not up on things, but there are people who are saying trans women ARE women and some (as shown earlier in the thread) who say trans women are BIOLOGICAL women.
Which is something worth discussing. The notion that to be a woman you have to menstruate is nonsense.
I never said you have to menstruate to be a woman. It's worth discussing whether males are women? Trans women are trans women. Adult human females are women.
What about the notion that to menstruate you have to be a woman? You know...like the original comment suggested when he said, “Let me know when a man menstruates.” That doesn’t mean “to be a woman you have to menstruate”. It means if you do menstruate, you’re not a man.
Thoughts on meaning of original comment?
No. In the context of the conversation he was clearly claiming that to be a female you have to menstruate. That you agree is no surprise.
It was a really stupid comparison.
Menstruating and being a female is a biological fact and reality. It is one marker but there isn't a single male that has the capability. That girls can't yet and that old women no longer have their period doesn't discount the point unless you are looking to twist reality. You want to pretend that female doesn't have biological realities demonstrates how thoroughly you are brainwashed. You simply cannot allow for even basic scientific fact to intrude on the false reality you have created.
That you won't admit this simple fact is a you problem. It is also a trans person problem.
Let me know when you are ready to admit reality and basic science and we can discuss how to help trans people feel more comfortable.
Perhaps you and others should focus on why trans people suicide rate goes up after their transition surgery. And no you don't simply get to point the finger at the rest of the world and call them bigots.
No it most certainly is not nonsense. What a joke.
It is the universal thing that all women have in common. Sorry you don't like that.
If they don't there is a medical explanation.
Me: "Perhaps you're not up on things, but there are people who are saying trans women ARE women and some (as shown earlier in the thread) who say trans women are BIOLOGICAL women."
You: "Which is something worth discussing."
Me: "I never said you have to menstruate to be a woman. It's worth discussing whether males are women? Trans women are trans women. Adult human females are women."
You: "I didn't say you did. Try to follow."
You didn't correct me and you didn't affirm or deny whether you were indicating that you think it's worth discussing. JFC the idiocy abounds, indeed.
You are complete fvcking idiot. Not one single person has claimed anything like you have claimed. Not me. Not the poster who made the original comment. Not even close. But you need that strawman to exist for you to have a point. But you don’t. You have just a big pile of shit. Again...link it or STFU.
He is attempting to twist language because menstruating is a female trait that is a biological fact and a undeniable separator between male and female.
You don't need to menstruate to be a woman but biologically males cannot and if women are not the is a medical reason. The are too young, too old, taking some medication preventing it, or have a rare medical condition that keeps it from happening.
You can't debate your way out of biological facts so they twist language and make it politically painful for people to speak openly. Because speaking biological facts is somehow translates to threatening or demeaning trans people.
You, as usual, are wrong. You made a really, really stupid comparison. Being able to menstruate does not define being a female.
Your probably among those who think being gay is a "choice". Antiquated thinking.
You're off the deep end now. I responded to a different poster. You decided to chime in, foolishly, but with a different message. Menstruating is NOT the definition of being a female. To argue so is idiotic.
Except that's exactly what he said.
It's a STUPID statement.
I don't know. And I won't pretend that I do. You would do well to do the same.
BTW "trans" women is a nebulous term.
How is it nebulous? I guess if "woman" is a nebulous term, as well, then what does any word mean? Let's just redefine words based on how we're feeling. Oh, wait. That's exactly what you're doing.
Keep speaking "your truth," playa!
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You are a quite simple man aren’t you? Choosing to see things only as you wish them to be rather than as they are.
If you’ve spent anytime listening to him he doesnt say anything that people WANT to hear. Often I disagree with his take but he is highly intelligent, very well spoken, and abreast of the facts which these days seems quite rare. That’s my beef with your statement.
Lol @ this thread...
We got people speaking power to their truth!!
We got people speaking power to their truth!!
Yeah.....once I heard people start talking about men menstruation I was like “nah dawg”
Once again ACLU counsel, Chase Strangio, who believes "Women and girls who are trans are biological women and girls."
Go off, bruh! Elucidate that shit! Preach against that "pseudoscience!"
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...ves-new-battlefield-their-culture-ncna1254483
Jan. 17, 2021, 1:30 AM PST
By Chase Strangio, trans activist and staff attorney, ACLU
We are not yet three weeks into 2021, President-elect Joe Biden has yet to be inaugurated and already powerful forces on the right have made clear what will be the next front in their so-called culture war — which is to say, their effort to maintain political power by demonizing the bodies, private lives and personal decisions of Americans they’ve deemed unworthy of such autonomy.
This time, they’ve chosen transgender youth as their target, seeking to capitalize on insidious stereotypes about trans people, preposterous pseudoscience and a divisive cadre of supposed women’s rights campaigners who believe the only way to achieve gender equality is to oppress other people.
These efforts to attack trans young people are driven by the same fundamental goals as previous attempts to restrict all transgender people from using public restrooms: to exclude transgender youth from participating in public and educational life alongside their peers and to perpetuate the myth that transness is itself harmful and should be eradicated. Despite all the high-minded rhetoric about “protecting children” and “saving women’s sports” behind these legislative efforts, these bills will actively harm young people, not help them, and will compromise women’s sports, not save them.
In at least 12 states right now,efforts are afoot that include actually criminalizing health care for transgender youth (as in, send doctors to prison for following medical treatment protocols to help trans youth) as well as banning all transgender young people from participating in age-appropriate athletic programs.
These bills are just another opportunity to repeat (and, they hope, enact into law) myths about trans women and girls.
Last year, Idaho, in fact, passed a wholesale ban on transgender women and girls participating in women’s sports. Though the law has since been blocked in court, it represents the most extreme restriction on trans athletic participation at any level of competition anywhere in the world. This year, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Montana, New Hampshire, North Dakota and Kentucky have already introduced similar bans.
While lawmakers and proponents of these bills claim they are necessary to “save women’s sports,” most supporters of the legislation can’t point to a single trans youth athlete in their state, let alone one who has ever displaced a nontransgender athlete, and no one can explain how they save women’s sports. Not one of these lawmakers has introduced legislation to actually invest in women’s sports. These bills are just another opportunity to repeat (and, they hope, enact into law) myths about trans women and girls dominating in women’s athletics and posing a threat to cisgender women and girls.
Though decades of experience show that trans women and girls do not, in fact, dominate women’s or girls’ athletics when they do participate, what is true is that trans young people participate in athletics for the same reason their cisgender peers do: to manage anxiety and stress, build connections with their peers and find joy. What these bills would succeed at, if they passed, would be taking those critical tools away from an already vulnerable population of young people to score political points in a distant culture war and ultimately to open the door for the state to police the bodies of all female athletes based on how they look.
Meanwhile, Alabama, Missouri, Texas, Mississippi, Montana, Indiana, New Hampshire and Utah — so far — have also introduced bills that would criminalize or otherwise ban gender-affirming care for transgender youth. Several of these bills classify any gender affirmation of trans young people as a form of “child abuse,” a provision which, if enacted, threatens to imprison medical providers as well as parents and guardians who affirm their children.
These bills are motivated by some adults’ need to police young people’s bodies and to make them align with those adults’ expectations of how young male and female bodies should look.
These bills, though, run counter to every prevailing norm of medical science in the United States and have been condemned by the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Medical Association and the Endocrine Society, among others, because they would cut off young transgender people from treatment known to save their lives.
And the impacts of these bills, if passed, would be immediate, forcing young people already receiving treatment off of it and removing them from care that has allowed them to manage distress and embrace their own, individual processes of learning about and celebrating their bodies and identities.
Proponents of these criminal bans claim they are necessary to “protect” youth who cannot consent to care that may alter their bodies for life — even though the puberty-suppression treatments that would be banned by the bills have no permanent long-term physical effects. At the same time, though, these bills actually permit nonconsensual surgical intervention on infants with intersex traits to “normalize” their bodies, even though such care is often performed in infancy with lifelong physical consequences and is considered to be a form of torture by the United Nations.
Given this, these anti-science bills cannot be understood as motivated by concerns about children or their ability to consent to medical treatment. Rather, they’re motivated by some adults’ need to police young people’s bodies and to make them align with those adults’ expectations of how young male and female bodies should look.
Together, all of these legislative efforts — like other anti-trans legislative efforts before them — attempt to weaponize the current distorted, pseudoscientific public discourse about transgender people, both for larger political aims of right-wing lawmakers and as part of a larger project to stop people from being transgender at all.
For example, proponents of Idaho’s anti-trans sports law argued in court that the law actually benefited transgender people by discouraging them from being trans because “those who persist in living in a transgender identity into adulthood suffer severely poor mental and physical health throughout their lifetimes.” This is inextricable from the underpinning of the health care bans, which likewise seek to control the bodies of transgender youth in ways that limit their self-expression and their reclamation of their noncisgender identities.
But the reality that these lawmakers and other anti-trans forces will eventually have to face is that when transgender young people are able to access health care, play sports, go to the restroom without fear and use pronouns that affirm who they are, nothing bad happens to anyone. Trans children are more able to live full, self-actualized lives. Cisgender people are not excluded from athletics or the restroom or anywhere else (and maybe they learn about the beauty and complexity of their fellow human beings even if it has escaped some of their parents). Trans children are not forced to undergo surgical interventions and, in fact, through pubertal suppression, may in adulthood have the option to have fewer and less invasive surgical interventions than may have otherwise been necessary for some individuals.
Ultimately, all that happens when we allow transgender people to live their lives freely and fully is that we get to celebrate more transgender people doing incredible things in the world, we expose the pseudoscience and stereotypes animating these bills for what they are and the people who are pushing these efforts are forced to contend with the limited vision they have for the world.
Go off, bruh! Elucidate that shit! Preach against that "pseudoscience!"
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...ves-new-battlefield-their-culture-ncna1254483
Jan. 17, 2021, 1:30 AM PST
By Chase Strangio, trans activist and staff attorney, ACLU
We are not yet three weeks into 2021, President-elect Joe Biden has yet to be inaugurated and already powerful forces on the right have made clear what will be the next front in their so-called culture war — which is to say, their effort to maintain political power by demonizing the bodies, private lives and personal decisions of Americans they’ve deemed unworthy of such autonomy.
This time, they’ve chosen transgender youth as their target, seeking to capitalize on insidious stereotypes about trans people, preposterous pseudoscience and a divisive cadre of supposed women’s rights campaigners who believe the only way to achieve gender equality is to oppress other people.
These efforts to attack trans young people are driven by the same fundamental goals as previous attempts to restrict all transgender people from using public restrooms: to exclude transgender youth from participating in public and educational life alongside their peers and to perpetuate the myth that transness is itself harmful and should be eradicated. Despite all the high-minded rhetoric about “protecting children” and “saving women’s sports” behind these legislative efforts, these bills will actively harm young people, not help them, and will compromise women’s sports, not save them.
In at least 12 states right now,efforts are afoot that include actually criminalizing health care for transgender youth (as in, send doctors to prison for following medical treatment protocols to help trans youth) as well as banning all transgender young people from participating in age-appropriate athletic programs.
These bills are just another opportunity to repeat (and, they hope, enact into law) myths about trans women and girls.
Last year, Idaho, in fact, passed a wholesale ban on transgender women and girls participating in women’s sports. Though the law has since been blocked in court, it represents the most extreme restriction on trans athletic participation at any level of competition anywhere in the world. This year, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Montana, New Hampshire, North Dakota and Kentucky have already introduced similar bans.
While lawmakers and proponents of these bills claim they are necessary to “save women’s sports,” most supporters of the legislation can’t point to a single trans youth athlete in their state, let alone one who has ever displaced a nontransgender athlete, and no one can explain how they save women’s sports. Not one of these lawmakers has introduced legislation to actually invest in women’s sports. These bills are just another opportunity to repeat (and, they hope, enact into law) myths about trans women and girls dominating in women’s athletics and posing a threat to cisgender women and girls.
Though decades of experience show that trans women and girls do not, in fact, dominate women’s or girls’ athletics when they do participate, what is true is that trans young people participate in athletics for the same reason their cisgender peers do: to manage anxiety and stress, build connections with their peers and find joy. What these bills would succeed at, if they passed, would be taking those critical tools away from an already vulnerable population of young people to score political points in a distant culture war and ultimately to open the door for the state to police the bodies of all female athletes based on how they look.
Meanwhile, Alabama, Missouri, Texas, Mississippi, Montana, Indiana, New Hampshire and Utah — so far — have also introduced bills that would criminalize or otherwise ban gender-affirming care for transgender youth. Several of these bills classify any gender affirmation of trans young people as a form of “child abuse,” a provision which, if enacted, threatens to imprison medical providers as well as parents and guardians who affirm their children.
These bills are motivated by some adults’ need to police young people’s bodies and to make them align with those adults’ expectations of how young male and female bodies should look.
These bills, though, run counter to every prevailing norm of medical science in the United States and have been condemned by the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Medical Association and the Endocrine Society, among others, because they would cut off young transgender people from treatment known to save their lives.
And the impacts of these bills, if passed, would be immediate, forcing young people already receiving treatment off of it and removing them from care that has allowed them to manage distress and embrace their own, individual processes of learning about and celebrating their bodies and identities.
Proponents of these criminal bans claim they are necessary to “protect” youth who cannot consent to care that may alter their bodies for life — even though the puberty-suppression treatments that would be banned by the bills have no permanent long-term physical effects. At the same time, though, these bills actually permit nonconsensual surgical intervention on infants with intersex traits to “normalize” their bodies, even though such care is often performed in infancy with lifelong physical consequences and is considered to be a form of torture by the United Nations.
Given this, these anti-science bills cannot be understood as motivated by concerns about children or their ability to consent to medical treatment. Rather, they’re motivated by some adults’ need to police young people’s bodies and to make them align with those adults’ expectations of how young male and female bodies should look.
Together, all of these legislative efforts — like other anti-trans legislative efforts before them — attempt to weaponize the current distorted, pseudoscientific public discourse about transgender people, both for larger political aims of right-wing lawmakers and as part of a larger project to stop people from being transgender at all.
For example, proponents of Idaho’s anti-trans sports law argued in court that the law actually benefited transgender people by discouraging them from being trans because “those who persist in living in a transgender identity into adulthood suffer severely poor mental and physical health throughout their lifetimes.” This is inextricable from the underpinning of the health care bans, which likewise seek to control the bodies of transgender youth in ways that limit their self-expression and their reclamation of their noncisgender identities.
But the reality that these lawmakers and other anti-trans forces will eventually have to face is that when transgender young people are able to access health care, play sports, go to the restroom without fear and use pronouns that affirm who they are, nothing bad happens to anyone. Trans children are more able to live full, self-actualized lives. Cisgender people are not excluded from athletics or the restroom or anywhere else (and maybe they learn about the beauty and complexity of their fellow human beings even if it has escaped some of their parents). Trans children are not forced to undergo surgical interventions and, in fact, through pubertal suppression, may in adulthood have the option to have fewer and less invasive surgical interventions than may have otherwise been necessary for some individuals.
Ultimately, all that happens when we allow transgender people to live their lives freely and fully is that we get to celebrate more transgender people doing incredible things in the world, we expose the pseudoscience and stereotypes animating these bills for what they are and the people who are pushing these efforts are forced to contend with the limited vision they have for the world.
Wow. People can really talk themselves in circles on this topic.
If you have a penis and testicles but somehow believe that you are actually a woman, that is a delusion.
Delusion- an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.
That doesn’t mean a delusional person should be mocked or mistreated or anything of the sort. But it doesn’t seem to me that redefining words to accommodate a delusion is helpful to anyone.
Sorry if that makes me a bigot.
If you have a penis and testicles but somehow believe that you are actually a woman, that is a delusion.
Delusion- an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.
That doesn’t mean a delusional person should be mocked or mistreated or anything of the sort. But it doesn’t seem to me that redefining words to accommodate a delusion is helpful to anyone.
Sorry if that makes me a bigot.
Excerpting from context to frame a disingenuous narrative. Again, like Shapiro.
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