Best Job in Iowa: Iowa or Iowa State

[moondog24]

ESPN has an article up on their website in which they list the best basketball job in each state. For the State of Iowa, they selected Iowa State. Here is their rationale:

Steve Prohm has the state's most devoted fans, a crippling atmosphere at Hilton Coliseum (Hilton Magic), a supportive administration (the school gave Prohm a $450,000 raise in March) and boosters willing to write a check to enhance the squad.

Interesting. What are your thoughts?

 

[And1Hawk]

Don't care. How does this change a thing about my team?

 

[shoot_the_three]

Well home court definitely goes to the clones and they have had more success over the last 10 plus years. That being said, if both jobs were open I think most coaches would choose Iowa and the Big Ten.

 

[DanL53]

I recall an article in The Sporting News (I think it was) back when LSU had Chris Jackson, Stanley Roberts and Shaq O'Neal and LSU was gonna be one of the new elites.

 

[blackgoldmine]

If it is such a great job then why since Johnny Orr has no one stayed any meaningful length of time. ESPN does its best to pander to all fan bases. This is a classic case.

 

[bagdropper]

I'd bet that if Iowa stunk on a stick in football almost the entire program's history, basketball would receive a helluva lot more a concentrated effort to stay relevant from the top on down - as well as what I would label as a more rabid fan base.

If Iowa stunk at football, all those Hawk fans that hump it to IC, roadies, and bowl destinations mostly every year - what if they "had more U of I ticket money to spend"...

 

[nychawkeyes]

I can attest to the Hilton stuff, in high school saw the Clones knock off Kansas and Oklahoma in back to back years there. It was electric. Alas, could not get those tickets to the 1987 game. Stupid LaFester.

But I agree, better to be in the B1G and our 50 million a year tv deal. But it's not just the money.

Sedge.

 

[DanL53]

DanL posts a post on this forum (right now) where he asks if a talented sports journalist wanted a good job would he pick ESPN first?

The answer comes back that a GOOD sports journalist would wipe his a$$ with this article and mail it to ESPN as his resume. Which would backfire because that's good enough for ESPN and the journalist would have to turn down their offer. Over and over as they begged and pleaded, "Oh, please...come to us so we can get rid of some of our hacks!"

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

It's true that Iowa State basketball fans are more devoted than Iowa basketball fans at the present time. Hilton is also a great venue for college basketball. I am old enough to remember, however, the days when Carver was a rockin' venue as well. There was much enthusiasm throughout most of Dr. Tom's tenure and it wasn't until the disillusionment of the Alford era and precipitous decline during the Lickliter years that fan enthusiasm waned considerably.

Fran has done a tremendous job of bringing enthusiasm and support back and I think you will see greater interest in Iowa basketball in the upcoming years. Also, let's be real: Iowa State fans have never had much of a football program to rally around, so basketball is pretty much it. That in a nutshell is all this article is really saying.

Oh, and the whole point about salary and booster support is ridiculous. Like the University of Iowa doesn't have a strong contingent of boosters who pump money into the athletic programs. Also, Fran McCaffery was the 2nd highest paid state employee in 2016 behind Kirk Ferentz. Steve Prohm was 3rd. Here's a link: http://db.desmoinesregister.com/state-salaries-for-iowa

 

[Suterman]

There is no question that ISU's basketball program has been superior to ours over the last 10 years. No question. Iowa's program is improving, ISU's may be falling back a bit. I would say this year they are back to even. ISU may have a slight edge due to Hilton's clear advantage over Carver.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

There is a lot to be said regarding not having to compete against an even average football program for attention. 'clone football being as bad as it's been for at least the past 50 years helps keep the attention focused on basketball.

 

[2432Hawk]

Well home court definitely goes to the clones and they have had more success over the last 10 plus years. That being said, if both jobs were open I think most coaches would choose Iowa and the Big Ten.

I don't know, some coaches don't want to coach at a "Football" school.... so Iowa State might get the nod there

 

[Myvue]

I can attest to the Hilton stuff, in high school saw the Clones knock off Kansas and Oklahoma in back to back years there. It was electric. Alas, could not get those tickets to the 1987 game. Stupid LaFester.

But I agree, better to be in the B1G and our 50 million a year tv deal. But it's not just the money.

Sedge.

50 mil isn't enough though as I read recently with all that income Iowa still went in the red in athletics last year.

 

[Myvue]

Oh, and the whole point about salary and booster support is ridiculous. Like the University of Iowa doesn't have a strong contingent of boosters who pump money into the athletic programs. Also, Fran McCaffery was the 2nd highest paid state employee in 2016 behind Kirk Ferentz. Steve Prohm was 3rd. Here's a link: http://db.desmoinesregister.com/state-salaries-for-iowa

Understandable because of years of coaching that Fran had a higher salary in 2016 as Fran has been a coach for 22 years compared to only 6 for Prohm. I couldn't find if Fran got a raise this year but if not with Prohm's $450,000 raise for next year he will pass Fran. Does Fran have incentives in his contract, couldn't find that he did but Prohm made an extra $125,000 by winning 3 games and the championship of the Big XII tournament + any wins in the NCAA tournament.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...hms-pay-extends-bill-fennellys-deal/99585482/

Does anyone know why Fran didn't coach from 1988 to 1999?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran_McCaffery career .583

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Prohm career .744

Will be interesting to follow them in the future to watch the competition.

 

[Legend12]

Does anyone know why Fran didn't coach from 1988 to 1999?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran_McCaffery career .583

.

Lol Wut?

 

[Myvue]

Lol Wut?

That information is at the bottom of Fran's Wikipedia page at the link I posted. What is not to understand?

Fran at least was not a head coach between 1988 and 1999 and his career record as a head coach is 58.3% wins.

 

[2432Hawk]

That information is at the bottom of Fran's Wikipedia page at the link I posted. What is not to understand?

Fran at least was not a head coach between 1988 and 1999 and his career record as a head coach is 58.3% wins.

He was an assistant at Notre Dame under Digger and McCloud.

Fran was a very young head coach...he wanted to get some tutilag from big time coaches. Think of it as grad school.

 

[Myvue]

He was an assistant at Notre Dame under Digger and McCloud.

Fran was a very young head coach...he wanted to get some tutilag from big time coaches. Think of it as grad school.

Thanks for the info. I thought I had read he had been a coach for about 30 years. He seems much to young to have had that long of a career already.

 

[youcantguardme]

Final Fours

answered

 

[Legend12]

That information is at the bottom of Fran's Wikipedia page at the link I posted. What is not to understand?

Fran at least was not a head coach between 1988 and 1999 and his career record as a head coach is 58.3% wins.

The link you posted clearly states what he was doing those years.

 

[youcantguardme]

There is no question that ISU's basketball program has been superior to ours over the last 10 years. No question. Iowa's program is improving, ISU's may be falling back a bit. I would say this year they are back to even. ISU may have a slight edge due to Hilton's clear advantage over Carver.

10 years? 40 years? 100 years?

Last year 78-64?

ISU is a dying program in every way.

 

[hawk-i bob]

There is no question that ISU's basketball program has been superior to ours over the last 10 years. No question. Iowa's program is improving, ISU's may be falling back a bit. I would say this year they are back to even. ISU may have a slight edge due to Hilton's clear advantage over Carver.

agree on all accounts....I find the article is a in the past. Its 2017 lets see what the future holds.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Understandable because of years of coaching that Fran had a higher salary in 2016 as Fran has been a coach for 22 years compared to only 6 for Prohm. I couldn't find if Fran got a raise this year but if not with Prohm's $450,000 raise for next year he will pass Fran. Does Fran have incentives in his contract, couldn't find that he did but Prohm made an extra $125,000 by winning 3 games and the championship of the Big XII tournament + any wins in the NCAA tournament.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...hms-pay-extends-bill-fennellys-deal/99585482/

Does anyone know why Fran didn't coach from 1988 to 1999?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran_McCaffery career .583

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Prohm career .744

Will be interesting to follow them in the future to watch the competition.

Lol. You obviously missed the point.

 

[anon_bb9wlf9kj42py]

5 of the last 7 ISU coaches have been to the Sweet 16. Unless you pull a McD you can expect to have reasonable success quickly at ISU.

 

[Rustys Dad]

ESPN has an article up on their website in which they list the best basketball job in each state. For the State of Iowa, they selected Iowa State. Here is their rationale:

Steve Prohm has the state's most devoted fans, a crippling atmosphere at Hilton Coliseum (Hilton Magic), a supportive administration (the school gave Prohm a $450,000 raise in March) and boosters willing to write a check to enhance the squad.

Interesting. What are your thoughts?

I can't argue this ... especially in the past decade or so ... I think ISU has always been more of a basketball school - that happens to have a football team, too.

It's hard to argue ISU's recent success on the bball court ...

Iowa basketball fans are slloowwwlllyyy coming back ... Alford put a huge dent in the Iowa basketball ship ... and then Lick came along and absolutely torpedoed it ... driving many fans away - and some who've never returned.

I feel Iowa basketball is on the rise ... and as for ISU, this is Prohm's prgram now ... I'm not sure how successful he can continue to be with his patched-together lineups of transfers ... It's worked in the past ... but I think ISU bball has under-performed the past two seasons with double-digit losses. I think Iowa basketball is better positioned for success in the immediate future ...

 

[IACentralHawk73]

ISU has the better support for basketball and has had the better support since the end of Tim Floyd's tenure and into Larry Eustachy's. This year, however, could provide a huge shift in power in the state of Iowa in basketball. This group of players that Iowa has now could do something very special and bring us back to a level we haven't seen since the early days of Dr. Tom's tenure. But as of right now, if you're a coach looking for full support in a job, Iowa State offers that more than Iowa at this point, but Iowa is rising back up.

 

[DanL53]

We could look at the good news here. Iowa State is more likely to be looking for a coach in the next few years than is Iowa.

 

[David1979]

I recall an article in The Sporting News (I think it was) back when LSU had Chris Jackson, Stanley Roberts and Shaq O'Neal and LSU was gonna be one of the new elites.

Thanks for the information.

 

[andy1992]

10 years? 40 years? 100 years?

Last year 78-64?

ISU is a dying program in every way.

Dumb. Don't tell there 4 and 5 star recruits they are dying.

 

[youcantguardme]

Calling someone dumb followed by not being able to correctly spell probably means that you are an ISU fan who can't count stars.

 

[RefinedBean]

Lol Wut?

That's fuzzy math. Prohm's win rate will go back down to an average close to Fran's, and Fran's is lowered by the fact that he inherited the horror show that was Lickliter's program.

As of right now, I see both being about equal. Conferences are about equal (when you look top to bottom - Big 12-2 gets a little edge here solely by having fewer schools in it)

 

[Lone Clone]

That's fuzzy math. Prohm's win rate will go back down to an average close to Fran's, and Fran's is lowered by the fact that he inherited the horror show that was Lickliter's program.

As of right now, I see both being about equal. Conferences are about equal (when you look top to bottom - Big 12-2 gets a little edge here solely by having fewer schools in it)

There isn't a huge difference, but I think it's a significant difference. IIRC, with only 10 teams, the BigXII last year had a #1 seed, a #3 seed, a #4 seed and a #5 seed. With more teams, the BiG had no #1 seed, no #2 or 3 seed, one #4 seed and 1 #5 seed.

Yes, that is based on perceptions at the end of the season .... but don't forget that this whole thread is based on perceptions; which program is perceived to be the better one.

 

[RefinedBean]

There isn't a huge difference, but I think it's a significant difference. IIRC, with only 10 teams, the BigXII last year had a #1 seed, a #3 seed, a #4 seed and a #5 seed. With more teams, the BiG had no #1 seed, no #2 or 3 seed, one #4 seed and 1 #5 seed.

Yes, that is based on perceptions at the end of the season .... but don't forget that this whole thread is based on perceptions; which program is perceived to be the better one.

Big 12 has definitely been "up" in the last half decade, for sure. I'd have to dive deeper into whether those rankings are because y'all get to beat up on Texas Tech and K-State consistently, while B1G scheduling can really screw teams over if they don't see the bottom dwellers as much.

I mean, that's also getting into the weeds of college basketball rankings (and football too while we're at it) being absolute bullshit and at the whims of pre-season ratings that are an incestuous quagmire of subjectivity but whatever.

I'll just say that my eyeballs, so far, have Fran and Prohm about equal, and going by records loses context. Time will tell, and hopefully the rivalry remains fun and competitive on both sides.

 

[kceasthawk]

50 mil isn't enough though as I read recently with all that income Iowa still went in the red in athletics last year.

Again this is simply an accounting ploy. There's all kinds of stuff written off in these gravy years thats not part of this past year.

 

[Lone Clone]

Big 12 has definitely been "up" in the last half decade, for sure. I'd have to dive deeper into whether those rankings are because y'all get to beat up on Texas Tech and K-State consistently, while B1G scheduling can really screw teams over if they don't see the bottom dwellers as much.

I mean, that's also getting into the weeds of college basketball rankings (and football too while we're at it) being absolute bullshit and at the whims of pre-season ratings that are an incestuous quagmire of subjectivity but whatever.

I'll just say that my eyeballs, so far, have Fran and Prohm about equal, and going by records loses context. Time will tell, and hopefully the rivalry remains fun and competitive on both sides.

I think you just put a finger on a significant point: You implied K-State is a weak sister; K-State made the NCAA tournament last year

But I agree with you about the ratings being bullshit, especially pre-season. And I agree with you about the in-conference schedule disparities. I have always thought that a conference in which not everyone plays everyone is flawed, and I thought that going 'way, 'way back. Sometimes you benefit from it an sometimes it hurts you, but it's never equitable.

 

[anon_bb9wlf9kj42py]

Big 12 has definitely been "up" in the last half decade, for sure. I'd have to dive deeper into whether those rankings are because y'all get to beat up on Texas Tech and K-State consistently, while B1G scheduling can really screw teams over if they don't see the bottom dwellers as much.

KSU has made the NCAA tournament 3 of the last 5 years and finished ranked 12th one of those years. They have 100 wins in the last 5 years and a 60% win percentage.

There is just one bad team in the Big 12. That's Texas Tech. And they have made the tourney in the last two years and had 18 and 19 wins the last two years.

 

[RefinedBean]

KSU has made the NCAA tournament 3 of the last 5 years and finished ranked 12th one of those years. They have 100 wins in the last 5 years and a 60% win percentage.

There is just one bad team in the Big 12. That's Texas Tech. And they have made the tourney in the last two years and had 18 and 19 wins the last two years.

Kansas State made the tournament because it beat ranked opponents, who were ranked because they made the tournament, and they made the tournament because they were beating ranked opponents.

When a sport is completely at the mercy of pre-season rankings, and your small league tends to have a lot of teams ranked over and over again, of course y'all will have the tendency to make the tournament more often.

And in no way do I want to deny the fact that the Big 12-2 hasn't been awesome in the past 5 years. It's a good league to watch, and sometimes I'll watch Big 12-2 games just for the good basketball played. But let's not get toooooo crazy over it, eh?

Also, Texas? Is Texas good? I haven't seen much of them, even with Shaka taking over. Same with TCU (and yeah, they beat Iowa, just to get that out of the way).

 

[anon_bb9wlf9kj42py]

Kansas State made the tournament because it beat ranked opponents, who were ranked because they made the tournament, and they made the tournament because they were beating ranked opponents.

When a sport is completely at the mercy of pre-season rankings, and your small league tends to have a lot of teams ranked over and over again, of course y'all will have the tendency to make the tournament more often.

And in no way do I want to deny the fact that the Big 12-2 hasn't been awesome in the past 5 years. It's a good league to watch, and sometimes I'll watch Big 12-2 games just for the good basketball played. But let's not get toooooo crazy over it, eh?

Also, Texas? Is Texas good? I haven't seen much of them, even with Shaka taking over. Same with TCU (and yeah, they beat Iowa, just to get that out of the way).

Sorry, yes, TCU sucks. I didn't include them and I should have.

Texas does get talent. It's hard for me to throw them in the sucks category.

As far as the sport being completely at the mercy of pre-season rankings, that absolutely couldn't be further from the truth. It fact it's nonsensical. You could make the point that they are far too beholden to the RPI and various measures contained therein, but the RPI is not effected by preseason rankings at all.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

I don't know how far back you want to go but if you look at the last 10 years a Big XII team has been in the Final Four 3 times (Kansas twice, Oklahoma once). Three times in ten years is not good in my book.

Conversely, a B1G team has been in the Final Four eight times in ten years (Michigan St 3 times, Ohio St twice, Wisconsin twice, Michigan once).

Let's not forget there hasn't been a conference champion in the Big XII not named Kansas in how many years? I don't disagree that the Big XII had a lot of parity last year. Also, I think it's fair to say the B1G has a lot of bad teams at the bottom that would not compete with the bottom teams of the Big XII.

All that said, I'm not sure how anyone can conclude the Big XII has been such a strong basketball conference in comparison to other P5s in recent memory. Having parity one year doesn't mean your conference is elite.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

It wasn't long ago that pollard was bitching about student attendance for games that weren't iowa or KU. ISU fan support will revert to historical levels.