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Biden becoming a socialist like Trump trying to cancel student debt

I agree with you, a forgiveness of loans should be discussed only after the root cause has been fixed. To fix the problem, there would need to be battles with universities. I don't think they are going to want to give in very easily.

I am not sure I see dems going after universities, but could see the cons doing that part. I expect some announcements closer to mid terms to sway some votes, but the outcome will be a minimal change.
The root cause of the problem is no questions asked gov guaranteed loans. Stop that and capitalism takes over. The smart kids with good grades will still go to college.

Trade schools make a ton more sense for tons of guys. My son and his pals are all considering going the trade school path.

My daughter had a bunch of high school classmates that always got A's and tested very well. Those kids all went to college. In fact a bunch of them got full ride academic scholarships at schools like Northwestern, Michigan and Illinois.

There is no one size fits all.
 
It's funny. The same people saying college is too expensive and needs to be cheaper are the same ones who dismiss this idea without any thought. It really is the easiest way to fix all of the problems we are having right now. It gets rid of student debt. It takes away the incentive for colleges to continue jacking up the cost of college, and it takes away the predatory nature of some banks giving loans out to people with very little risk to themselves.

I don't know the math off the top of my head, but I'm betting we've spent more on defending Ukraine in the last two months than this would cost in a year. Not that I don't think we should be helping defend Ukraine, it just shows how easy it is to find the money when it is something we really need to get done.
 
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the genie can't go back in the bottle on this one whether anybody likes it or not. We're going on 2 years without borrowers making payments and with what inflation has done to the home and rental market, that money is already spent. Throw a market correction and recession on top of it and you're going to move Congress pretty far to the extreme left if you try to restart payments
 
I would be interested in what's driving up the cost. The cons want to blame the loan system but I'm not so sure about that. Most colleges are not for profit entities run by a board of directors. There doesn't IMO seem to be a great deal of incentive to increase costs just because they can. However I would be open to having some fair minded accountants look at the books and tell us where the money is going.

Quite frankly I suspect a lot may have to do with increasing technology demands for pretty much every major. Investing in new technologies and maintaining them likely costs a lot.
In my opinion, the structure of an undergrad degree has some waste. I'm more in favor of a streamlined version of the current degree. There were 3-4 classes that were an absolute waste of time for me personally. I realize trade schools exist, but the growth potential from those jobs is less than an undergrad and if people want to change careers later in life, it can be more difficult.

For instance, I wanted to take a personal finance class instead of music appreciation. That seems reasonable, but I needed to fulfill my requirement for an art class.
 
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How many corporations have we just cancelled the debt on? How many industries have we picked up a huge chunk of the bill while also giving them tax cuts?

I'm good with canceling student loans. I'd much rather do it for young college grads than for corporations. Go for it.
I’d rather we do neither but good point
 
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A select few didn’t get a lot of “rocket fuel” with DT Barnum’s tax cuts?
Who is DT Barnum? Tax cuts reduce money owed to the government from actual earnings. Loan forgiveness allows the absorption of unearned money like a parasitic sponge. If you can’t see the difference, I don’t know what else to tell you.

And this is coming from somebody who has no problem raising taxes of the wealthy, for the record. Student loan forgiveness is just THAT bad of an idea.
 
I'd be ok with that too. However, the side that was all good with corporate bail outs has an issue with bailing out 20 somethings? Nah... if I had to choose one or the other, I'm going with the 20 somethings.
But there’s no principle or policy behind who would get forgiveness. Just those who happen to owe money at the same time the Democrats need turnout and votes. It’s silly because we will be right back in the same place in 5 years.
 
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More D’s voted for the bank bailout than R’s
You are correct.

What nobody wanted to hear in 2008 or 2022 is that American workers are not competitive without tariffs. The answer is to go back to root canal Republicanism and cut spending and raise taxes to increase savings but nobody wants to hear that either.

We all want to hear that the best way to lose weight is drink more beer, eat more pasta and stop exercising.
 
I would be interested in what's driving up the cost. The cons want to blame the loan system but I'm not so sure about that. Most colleges are not for profit entities run by a board of directors. There doesn't IMO seem to be a great deal of incentive to increase costs just because they can. However I would be open to having some fair minded accountants look at the books and tell us where the money is going.

Quite frankly I suspect a lot may have to do with increasing technology demands for pretty much every major. Investing in new technologies and maintaining them likely costs a lot.
The funny thing is costs are about the same adjusted for inflation as they always have been. The cost to students has increased because we as a society have shifted the costs to them
 
The funny thing is costs are about the same adjusted for inflation as they always have been. The cost to students has increased because we as a society have shifted the costs to them
Many pro student loan people reference the GI Bill after WW2. At that time about 12-15% of the country was going to college. Today, that number is in the 30% range. The job market (economy) does not need that many people with college degrees. The problem is we have trashed the working class by running a consumption based economy that has killed exports and therefore manufacturing. Many of the people who go to college would have just got a manufacturing job years ago.

It is not like I don't think college is bad for all kids. My daughter had several high school classmates who had 4.0 GPA's, scored in the 30's on their ACT, got academic full rides and are killing it on Wall Street or Silicon Valley. For them college made a ton of sense and was free.

My son on the other hand had a bunch of high school classmates who barely graduated from high school and tested poorly on their ACT and luckily did not go to college. For them college did not make sense.
 
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He can declare bankruptcy and wipe out his debt as painful as that is. He is also protected from predatory lending practices. Neither of those things are true for student loans.
They can't declare bankruptcy, because the lenders are not allowed to turn the borrowers down for the loan. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but this is my understanding.
 
How many corporations have we just cancelled the debt on? How many industries have we picked up a huge chunk of the bill while also giving them tax cuts?

I'm good with canceling student loans. I'd much rather do it for young college grads than for corporations. Go for it.
Help me understand what corporations had their debt cancelled and received a tax cut?
 
Fix the system going forward.

What about the banks that built debt back up after the bail out? Car manufacturers? Etc...
What is your understanding of what caused the financial crisis that led to the bailouts? What is your understanding of the regulations that were implemented following the financial crisis as part of those bailouts?
 
Well, one could say that banks don't have to engage in shady loan and mortgage debt deals, but they did and the taxpayers bailed them out. So, this debate has been had already. I agree, people and organizations should be responsible for their debt. But that's not the way it actually works in this country so it's hard to say no to do this. And yes, I paid off all my student loan debt.
Government regulation was the single biggest contributor to the financial crisis. The greed of speculators, banks and rating agencies exposed flawed regulations. We have some of the same issues that has led to the student loan crisis.
 
It's funny. The same people saying college is too expensive and needs to be cheaper are the same ones who dismiss this idea without any thought. It really is the easiest way to fix all of the problems we are having right now. It gets rid of student debt. It takes away the incentive for colleges to continue jacking up the cost of college, and it takes away the predatory nature of some banks giving loans out to people with very little risk to themselves.

I don't know the math off the top of my head, but I'm betting we've spent more on defending Ukraine in the last two months than this would cost in a year. Not that I don't think we should be helping defend Ukraine, it just shows how easy it is to find the money when it is something we really need to get done.
Are student loan lenders allowed to reject student loan applications?
 
Yes, for certain things. Particularly in the case of the government being the lender.
Thank you for the insight. I am interested in learning more about the criteria for accepting or rejecting a student loan application. If anyone has any resources they can recommend, then it would be appreciated. Otherwise, I will start with google searches.
 
Help me understand what corporations had their debt cancelled and received a tax cut?
AIG. Kinda a big deal when they caused our entire economy to collapse but were too big to fail. Did you need other examples? More recent ones. Like through the pandemic for example?
 
Government regulation was the single biggest contributor to the financial crisis. The greed of speculators, banks and rating agencies exposed flawed regulations. We have some of the same issues that has led to the student loan crisis.
Lol. No it wasn't. It was the lack of regulation. They bundled shitty mortgages together and sold them as if they could measure the risk appropriately. They were wrong.
 
They can't declare bankruptcy, because the lenders are not allowed to turn the borrowers down for the loan. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but this is my understanding.
You are wrong. They removed bankruptcy protections because banks wanted that provision and then continued to charge well above what they should on rates relative to risk. Our current president had a lot to do with those decisions. Bankruptcy protections should never have been removed
 
Thank you for the insight. I am interested in learning more about the criteria for accepting or rejecting a student loan application. If anyone has any resources they can recommend, then it would be appreciated. Otherwise, I will start with google searches.
The standards for lending are far more relaxed though because banks don't have to worry about losing the money due to declaring bankruptcy.
 
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Government regulation was the single biggest contributor to the financial crisis. The greed of speculators, banks and rating agencies exposed flawed regulations. We have some of the same issues that has led to the student loan crisis.
That's an interesting way to look at it. I would say it was the removal or certain regulations that made these things possible and I do believe that was a bipartisan effort to make that happen.
 
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Help me understand what corporations had their debt cancelled and received a tax cut?
TARP in 2008 was the bailout of Wall Street by the Federal Gov. I was against it. I was going to vote for Obama but he was for it as was McCain so I voted for Bob Barr the Libertarian.

The corporate tax cut was in 2017.
 
What is your understanding of what caused the financial crisis that led to the bailouts? What is your understanding of the regulations that were implemented following the financial crisis as part of those bailouts?
China entered the World Trade Organization in 2001 and millions in the US lost their manufacturing jobs. This resulted in a drop in personal income for the working class and as a result loan demand slowed down so banks got more aggressive in their lending practices as measured by money down, income needed, etc.

To make up for lost income, many people used home equity loans as a piggy bank. Banks were more than happy to do the home equity loans and the easy financing jacked up the price of real estate. A great movie to watch on this is "The Big Short".

In addition to this, Congress repealed Depression era laws (Glass-Steagall) that kept commercial banking and investment banking as separate banks. So now, the aggressive trader at the bank could take money that Grandma put in the bank in CD's and leverage the crap out of it (35 to 1 or more) and trade it. If the trader hit it, he was a hero. If he blew it, the $ was FDIC insured.

When the gov gets involved in the econ., it can create market distortions. A classic example today, is with $9 Trillion of Quantitative Easing jacking up the stock market.

I am and have been 100% in cash. I will let the markets collapse and then buy at the bottom.
 
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Lol. No it wasn't. It was the lack of regulation. They bundled shitty mortgages together and sold them as if they could measure the risk appropriately. They were wrong.
I believe that you believe you are correct regarding increased regulation.

You are correct regarding the bundling of bad mortgages that were rubber stamped by the rating agencies as AAA being one of the many issues uncovered during the GFC. It is not what led to why bank bailouts were needed.
 
You are wrong. They removed bankruptcy protections because banks wanted that provision and then continued to charge well above what they should on rates relative to risk. Our current president had a lot to do with those decisions. Bankruptcy protections should never have been removed
What were the banks arguments for wanting bankruptcy protections removed?
 
The standards for lending are far more relaxed though because banks don't have to worry about losing the money due to declaring bankruptcy.
I may be wrong in my thinking, but i feel like banks are protected because they are under regulatory requirements to lend. If I am right, then I believe lenders should be protected.

I believe private loans should have always been under bankruptcy protection for borrowers and the lenders should have always been able to make these loans based on their belief the borrower can repay the loan.

Federal Loans should not be forgiven and absorbed by taxpayers. That is my view, but am open to listening to others about why my belief is misguided.
 
AIG. Kinda a big deal when they caused our entire economy to collapse but were too big to fail. Did you need other examples? More recent ones. Like through the pandemic for example?
How did companies cause our economy to almost collapse? Why did private companies receive loans during the pandemic? I need help understanding the thinking behind these beliefs.

I understand why some people believe corporate tax cuts are bad, but I believe they are good.
 
I may be wrong in my thinking, but i feel like banks are protected because they are under regulatory requirements to lend. If I am right, then I believe lenders should be protected.

I believe private loans should have always been under bankruptcy protection for borrowers and the lenders should have always been able to make these loans based on their belief the borrower can repay the loan.

Federal Loans should not be forgiven and absorbed by taxpayers. That is my view, but am open to listening to others about why my belief is misguided.
The only reason I am ok with the loan forgiveness is because every time businesses and banks do this we bail them out. Although I really wish it was part of legislation to fix the problem with college costs, but a bill like that is basically impossible these days.
 
TARP in 2008 was the bailout of Wall Street by the Federal Gov. I was against it. I was going to vote for Obama but he was for it as was McCain so I voted for Bob Barr the Libertarian.

The corporate tax cut was in 2017.
I appreciate the insight. I am very well versed on the GFC and 2017 tax cuts.

I choose to be socratic when trying to gauge people's understandings and misunderstandings. The poster I quoted and questioned coupled loan cancellation with tax cuts as if they were connected. I believe there are a lot of people with strong opinions about subjects they don't fully understand.

My approach is to understand what has led them to those opinions. I hope it can lead to constructive dialogue.
 
China entered the World Trade Organization in 2001 and millions in the US lost their manufacturing jobs. This resulted in a drop in personal income for the working class and as a result loan demand slowed down so banks got more aggressive in their lending practices as measured by money down, income needed, etc.

To make up for lost income, many people used home equity loans as a piggy bank. Banks were more than happy to do the home equity loans and the easy financing jacked up the price of real estate. A great movie to watch on this is "The Big Short".

In addition to this, Congress repealed Depression era laws (Glass-Steagall) that kept commercial banking and investment banking as separate banks. So now, the aggressive trader at the bank could take money that Grandma put in the bank in CD's and leverage the crap out of it (35 to 1 or more) and trade it. If the trader hit it, he was a hero. If he blew it, the $ was FDIC insured.

When the gov gets involved in the econ., it can create market distortions. A classic example today, is with $9 Trillion of Quantitative Easing jacking up the stock market.

I am and have been 100% in cash. I will let the markets collapse and then buy at the bottom.
Your understanding and my understanding are very similar. I hope others will read this with the intent of understanding at a deeper level.

I did not go all cash last fall, but I went to 25% stocks and 75% cash. The market has a way of trapping investors into committing every last dollar they have, lead them to buy stocks on debt, force them to sell on margin calls and smack their arrogance right out of themselves.
 
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