Big Changes For World Team Trials

[d523]

Any one else catch the changes to deciding the Mens and Womens world teams?

Challenge tournament held on a different day than the best 2 of 3. Also the best 2 of 3 will be held on 3 different weekends at 3 different locations.

Returning world medalist or the US open champ will still sit in the finals.

Challenge Tournament - Rochester, MN, on May 18-20

Best 2 of 3's
No official release on exact location but tentative locations are Lincoln NB, State College PA, and Bethlehem PA

June 9th
Men's 57kg, 70kg, 74kg, 97kg
Women's 55kg, 59kg, 68kg

June 16th
Men's 65kg, 79kg, 86kg
Women's 62kg, 72kg, 76kg

June 23rd
Men's 61kg, 92kg, 125kg
Women's 50kg, 53kg, 57kg, 65kg

 

[SPGroth]

I guess it will give the winner of the challenge tournament to opportunity to rest and prepare for matches against the finalist. Unfortunately, one group has to wait 4 weeks for their finals matches. I guess separating it out give multiple locations a chance to host, but would have been nice to have all of the finals in one place.

 

[pablow]

So virtually no advantage to sitting at #1. And, spreading the finals over three dates in three location will mean crowds will consist mainly of families of the finalists. I'm speechless.

Maybe we can have 10 NCAA tournaments each year - one for each weight. Just think - 10 x attendance.

 

[pablow]

I guess it will give the winner of the challenge tournament to opportunity to rest and prepare for matches against the finalist. Unfortunately, one group has to wait 4 weeks for their finals matches. I guess separating it out give multiple locations a chance to host, but would have been nice to have all of the finals in one place.

The wrestler that passes to the final is suppose to have an advantage.

 

[Jaybird319]

I’m all right with finals being on a different day. The multiple locations is a head scratcher

I’d much prefer finals the next day or even next weekend. Location doesn’t matter. How do the new weigh-ins timeframe play into this?

 

[pablow]

Years ago the powers that be decided that we needed to avoid having our best wrestlers knocked off in the team trials - something that other countries managed to avoid. Thus, the current format which attempts to assure that a challenger has an uphill swim (bad mixed metaphor). This is not unfair, it's just to guard against upsets.

If finals are moved to next day, than there is almost no advantage to #1. In fact, #1 could be a little rusty from sitting (a disadvantage that in the old format was more than offset by the challenge tourney winner being tired). Is this just Cael and the Unicorn throwing a tantrum over last year when DT was denied the glory owned to him?

This move has butt-hurt written all over it. Or, did the Iowa City trial trigger this.

The three finals weekends in three locations eliminates me from ever attending.

 

[danish_hawkeye]

How is the average fan to attend? This is terrible...

 

[YoungGun07]

WTT at Carver was an amazing event.

This format will prevent me from ever attending again. It isn't worth the drive to only see a few weight classes.

 

[anon_hc7hkvtk15hp5]

Looks like they are giving some people a home mat advantage with those finals locations. Not sure how much it will matter this year, but if the had some in IA City, would think that would be a big advantage for they guys in the HWC.

 

[Neo_Hawk]

Agree with most of this, terrible idea and when they see attendance for each event looks like an Indiana home meet vs MSU they are going to realize their mistake.

I really don't care about the finals being the next day or the final day being the semis and final matches only, this would give the challengers a little more rest, but making it days, weeks or months later is absolutely stupid.

But you have to remember, USA Wrestling has only been making good decisions for the past 2 or 3 years, they were bound to revert back to the leg cinch days sooner or later.

 

[Exo]

So virtually no advantage to sitting at #1. And, spreading the finals over three dates in three location will mean crowds will consist mainly of families of the finalists. I'm speechless.

Maybe we can have 10 NCAA tournaments each year - one for each weight. Just think - 10 x attendance.

No advantage to sitting at #1? What about the fact that you are in the finals and not competing to get there again. It's less of an advantage but still a huge advantage that you don't have to win another tourney.

 

[crablegs1]

I actually think it's a good idea. Sure, the OTT in Carver was well attended, but how about the WTT in Lincoln last year? I was there, and the attendance was good, but nothing special. Numbers I saw said a little over 4,000 people. That is less than a typical dual in Iowa City, Stillwater, Columbus, and Happy Valley.

With the new format there will likely be 1 of these held in Pennsylvania, 1 in Iowa, and 1 in some other location (possibly Columbus or Stillwater).

I guarantee that the events in Iowa and Pennsylvania will put far more than 4,000 fans in the seats each so attendance will be better and more people will be exposed to these top athletes.

Yes, as a diehard wrestling fan, I probably won't be able to attend all 3 events like I used to be able to attend a WTT in it's entirety. But, I'll probably make it to 1 event and I'll probably be able to convince some of my non-diehard friends and family to come since it won't take 2 full days in an arena. Plus, I'll still be able to watch all of the action live streamed.

 

[whejoe]

Seems pretty cost effective..........

 

[pablow]

I actually think it's a good idea. Sure, the OTT in Carver was well attended, but how about the WTT in Lincoln last year? I was there, and the attendance was good, but nothing special. Numbers I saw said a little over 4,000 people. That is less than a typical dual in Iowa City, Stillwater, Columbus, and Happy Valley.

With the new format there will likely be 1 of these held in Pennsylvania, 1 in Iowa, and 1 in some other location (possibly Columbus or Stillwater).

I guarantee that the events in Iowa and Pennsylvania will put far more than 4,000 fans in the seats each so attendance will be better and more people will be exposed to these top athletes.

Yes, as a diehard wrestling fan, I probably won't be able to attend all 3 events like I used to be able to attend a WTT in it's entirety. But, I'll probably make it to 1 event and I'll probably be able to convince some of my non-diehard friends and family to come since it won't take 2 full days in an arena. Plus, I'll still be able to watch all of the action live streamed.

The 57kg, 70kg, 74kg, 97kg finals grouping will include Green and Burroughs. The 65kg, 79kg, 86kg final group will undoubtedly have Retherford, Dake, and Taylor. Just a wild guess, but I'd say group #1 is Lincoln and group #2. Happy Valley.

 

[CholleyVandine]

Years ago the powers that be decided that we needed to avoid having our best wrestlers knocked off in the team trials - something that other countries managed to avoid. Thus, the current format which attempts to assure that a challenger has an uphill swim (bad mixed metaphor). This is not unfair, it's just to guard against upsets.

If finals are moved to next day, than there is almost no advantage to #1. In fact, #1 could be a little rusty from sitting (a disadvantage that in the old format was more than offset by the challenge tourney winner being tired). Is this just Cael and the Unicorn throwing a tantrum over last year when DT was denied the glory owned to him?

This move has butt-hurt written all over it. Or, did the Iowa City trial trigger this.

The three finals weekends in three locations eliminates me from ever attending.

Thomas Gilman is sitting in the finals. He is at no risk of losing a fluky match at the team trials to Nato or Ramos or Spencer Lee or Daton Fix or whoever. If one of those guys is going to take the spot from him, they're going to have to beat him twice.

That does not seem like "almost no" advantage.

 

[crablegs1]

The 57kg, 70kg, 74kg, 97kg finals grouping will include Green and Burroughs. The 65kg, 79kg, 86kg final group will undoubtedly have Retherford, Dake, and Taylor. Just a wild guess, but I'd say group #1 is Lincoln and group #2. Happy Valley.

They should put this group in Iowa (possibly Council Bluffs but Des Moines would be amazing). 57kg = Gilman and a short trip from Nebraska.

Plus the main reason to put it in Iowa is because you're going to put butts in the seats.

 

[pablow]

Thomas Gilman is sitting in the finals. He is at no risk of losing a fluky match at the team trials to Nato or Ramos or Spencer Lee or Daton Fix or whoever. If one of those guys is going to take the spot from him, they're going to have to beat him twice.

That does not seem like "almost no" advantage.

You're mixing two things up - there is an advantage in reaching the finals. But virtually no competitive advantage once the whistle blows for the finals. In fact, wrestler passed to final could (likely would be) be rusty.

 

[hawkwatcher2]

I believe returning member should just be #1 seed in bracket. Then best of 3 finals next day. They wont receive a break or advantage at worlds why give them one now.

 

[pablow]

I believe returning member should just be #1 seed in bracket. Then best of 3 finals next day. They wont receive a break or advantage at worlds why give them one now.

Seems fair. But I think we just want to make sure our best wrestlers are on the team. Our international competition get their best guys out there by hook or by crook. Running our top guys through the grind also subjects them to risks of burnout and injury. Our competition keeps their stud wrestlers fresh. I favor giving a large advantage to defending medalists.

 

[pumpdog20]

At weights with no returning medalists, one of the finals participants will have to travel 3 times. Doesn't seem easy on the pocket book for a sport that doesn't pay well to begin with.

 

[CowboyUp61]

mon

Agree with most of this, terrible idea and when they see attendance for each event looks like an Indiana home meet vs MSU they are going to realize their mistake.

I really don't care about the finals being the next day or the final day being the semis and final matches only, this would give the challengers a little more rest, but making it days, weeks or months later is absolutely stupid.

But you have to remember, USA Wrestling has only been making good decisions for the past 2 or 3 years, they were bound to revert back to the leg cinch days sooner or later.[/QUOTE
Money talks-I bet they are being bankrolled by Novogratz for when attendance receipts dont equal costs of renting 4 arenas, 4X the travel costs for officials and USA staff, etc.

 

[HAWKMANN]

At weights with no returning medalists, one of the finals participants will have to travel 3 times. Doesn't seem easy on the pocket book for a sport that doesn't pay well to begin with.

Which is why it is important to donate to the HWC so we can fund the travel for all of our finalists we will have.

 

[pumpdog20]

Also, they just announced $114K in additional payouts to the wrestlers. I don't see this being viable at all. USA Wrestling is going to not only pay more money to the wrestlers (a good thing), but also pay out for another "round" to determine their representative, but also paying 3 different venues.

Hopefully smarter people than me have thought through this.

 

[WrestleEveryDay]

Thomas Gilman is sitting in the finals. He is at no risk of losing a fluky match at the team trials to Nato or Ramos or Spencer Lee or Daton Fix or whoever. If one of those guys is going to take the spot from him, they're going to have to beat him twice.

That does not seem like "almost no" advantage.

Gilman also has to beat them twice. Nato or Ramos or Spencer Lee or Daton Fix or whoever will be rested. In fact, it does seem like "almost no" advantage.

 

[Exo]

Gilman also has to beat them twice. Nato or Ramos or Spencer Lee or Daton Fix or whoever will be rested. In fact, it does seem like "almost no" advantage.

How is it almost no advantage? He does not have to compete with Nato, Ramos, SL, Fix, Mega. He gets the winner. Yes the finals will be more level but he is guaranteed that spot, no one else is! This can't be that difficult to wrap ones mind around.

 

[Coach Mac B]

I agree with wanting to have our best wrestlers out there but I don't like giving too much advantage to the 1 seed. Otherwise I'd rather them just give the 1 seed the spot and not have a tryout.

I'm OK with the one seed having the advantage on not having to he in the challenge bracket but the spot still needs to be earned

I'm not sure having a tired wrestler is the right way to determine if they're the best or not. It's the best wrestler is not the number one seed .....but he is only a slightly better ....we run as much risk making it too difficult for the challenge trophy winner.

As for the location and schedule, I guess someone would have to explain the benefit of splitting up the weights. As everyone else pointed out, it doesn't make sense from an attendance perspective.

 

[Jackhawk87]

I actually like the fact that the winner of the challenge bracket doesn't have to wrestle again right after the grind. Whoever makes it through is a darn good wrestler and doesn't deserve to be at a significant disadvantage. The disadvantage is having to beat everybody in their path to become the challenge champion. Once they accomplish that, may the best man/woman win.

I would prefer the next round the next day, but a week or three later would be fine. Breaking up the finals into three weekends at three different locations is just stupid.

 

[IAChief32]

Day one tourney for everyone

Day two, best 2 of 3. Sitter only has to weigh in one day, but challenge Champ gets some rest. Win, win.

But yea, they goat ****ed this one.

 

[pumpdog20]

Day one tourney for everyone

Day two, best 2 of 3. Sitter only has to weigh in one day, but challenge Champ gets some rest. Win, win.

But yea, they goat ****ed this one.

Your route makes too much sense.

 

[CowboyUp61]

Day one tourney for everyone

Day two, best 2 of 3. Sitter only has to weigh in one day, but challenge Champ gets some rest. Win, win.

But yea, they goat ****ed this one.

If the world championships are going to be 2 day weigh ins, the person sitting should have to weigh in both days too.

But yes, the goat****ed on the 3 locations.

 

[Exo]

If the world championships are going to be 2 day weigh ins, the person sitting should have to weigh in both days too.

But yes, the goat****ed on the 3 locations.

Huh? Why tho?

 

[moug]

Huh? Why tho?

Because they will have to at the World Championships as well. If we really want our best out there, they better be able to get after it 2 days in a row.

 

[BoroBuilt]

The 57kg, 70kg, 74kg, 97kg finals grouping will include Green and Burroughs. The 65kg, 79kg, 86kg final group will undoubtedly have Retherford, Dake, and Taylor. Just a wild guess, but I'd say group #1 is Lincoln and group #2. Happy Valley.

Yea. 3rd location is rumored to be Bethlehem pa (Lehigh valley). Seems weird to have 2 events in pa. I’ve complained for years that USA wrestling has avoided pa for sr level events so I guess I can’t complain.

 

[Exo]

But wouldn't they actually be wrestling?

 

[BoroBuilt]

But wouldn't they actually be wrestling?

Huh?

 

[pumpdog20]

FRL mentioned that Iowa City didn't want it since it already has the World Cup.

 

[AirDowney]

So virtually no advantage to sitting at #1. And, spreading the finals over three dates in three location will mean crowds will consist mainly of families of the finalists. I'm speechless.

Maybe we can have 10 NCAA tournaments each year - one for each weight. Just think - 10 x attendance.

Besides being in the finals? SMH

 

[pointtheway]

Are they trying to kill wrestling as an Olympic sport?! This format will kill attendance which will subsequently impact support for Olympic style wrestling.

As others have said, this will eliminate a lot of the non-family fans from attending. We've attended the trials the past several years and enjoy it about as much as NCAA Championships, but this format will ruin it for me. I probably won't spend the time/money to attend the trials given this format where the challenge tournament doesn't include the best two of three. They've gotta be nuts to think many non-family fans will travel to the best two of three locations to watch maybe as few as 12 or 14 matches. That's only 2-3 hours of wrestling on a single mat. This is not good for growing support for the sport.

 

[AirDowney]

Years ago the powers that be decided that we needed to avoid having our best wrestlers knocked off in the team trials - something that other countries managed to avoid. Thus, the current format which attempts to assure that a challenger has an uphill swim (bad mixed metaphor). This is not unfair, it's just to guard against upsets.

If finals are moved to next day, than there is almost no advantage to #1. In fact, #1 could be a little rusty from sitting (a disadvantage that in the old format was more than offset by the challenge tourney winner being tired). Is this just Cael and the Unicorn throwing a tantrum over last year when DT was denied the glory owned to him?

This move has butt-hurt written all over it. Or, did the Iowa City trial trigger this.

The three finals weekends in three locations eliminates me from ever attending.

Just completely ignore the DISADVANTAGE to winner of the challenge tourney???

 

[rossel 33]

How is the average fan to attend? This is terrible...

It'll be hard for me to fire up to go to multiple locations, when it used to be 1 place. Probably skip 'em. Horrible idea!