Big Ten - Officiating Concern

[hawkeyeguy69]

Ok, we have not won a National Title in OVER 20 years! In that time, we have allowed Tom Izzo style defense to rein. We see more, and more of that physical, hand check, waist grabbing, arm grabbing basketbrawl. But in the Big Ten it is WAY more prevalent than ANY other conference in the country. Bar none.

So, year after year we play a worsening style of physical play that does not allow one to play the game as how it should be played - Showing your skills vs your brut. This style is nowhere close to how the rest of the country plays ball. Definitely Not the Power 6.

The B1G then goes into the NCAA Tournament with a disadvantage that WE created. Instead of playing more finesse ball, without all the hand checking, etc, and scoring/defending like the game should be played. We are brawlers. Tom Izzo/Wisconsin style. Essentially, Cheat until they call you for it.... Which is NOT how the rest of the P6 plays ball.

This officiating style is what has cost the B1G come March. Doubt me??? When was the last time the Big Ten won the National Title....? Over 20 years ago.

Coincidence?? I think not.

 

[longliveCS40]

This is a crock. The Big Ten teams didn't lose because of disparate officiating. The teams got outplayed.

The reason the Big Ten hasn't won a title in 20 years is because the conference hasn't been as good as other conferences come tournament time.

 

[AJBHawkeye]

JFC just please stop w/ the officiating BS, it's rather old

 

[onlyTheObvious]

Blaming the officials taken to a new level.

 

[hoffmkr]

If anything, Houston mugged Rutgers last night with officials swallowing whistle in second half. Everyone expected Illinois to get called for more fouls. Wisconsin has not beat a top ten team all year.

 

[pocha444444]

The people that make these posts would be complaining about the same "physical" style of play allowed if they watched the SEC or Big 12 all season as well. College bball fans just love to see fouls called in general. They wish there were a whistle every time down the floor. That double foul on Garza was a thing of beauty in their minds.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

No, no, OP has a point. He just needs to emphasize the styles of play moreso than the officiating.

There's a reason so many media types have raved about Iowa's style of play, which is NOT what a traditional Big Ten team has looked like.

Yes, Iowa had a team that could adjust to the Big Ten pounding style of play, but at their core, they want to get up and down way more than they're allowed to do in-conference.

And in the tournament, you're going to get that up and down style whether you like it or not. But you're also going to see several different styles of play that you haven't seen since the beginning of the season (in November) if at all.

I think that's what got Illinois, ultimately. Loyola is just playing their style at its highest level right now, and Illinois was the team that was forced to adjust, and not the other way around.

Despite our own issues (athletically, in particular), Iowa is arguably the most adaptable team in the conference. We've faced several different styles throughout the year and have a squad, when they're on their game, that can adjust however they need to.

And before someone says, well a team that can run and shoot 3s is a tough match for us...........everyone wants to run and shoot 3s, because that's where the game of basketball is today, unfortunately. We've just had to deal with the roller coaster of defensive growing pains along the way this season.


But then.....what does that have to do with officiating?

Well, lets think about it. If teams are forced to play a certain style for months on end, against the same, familiar teams for months on end, sometimes that becomes all you know, and it can be a tough adjustment to break from that.

And when the officials perpetually allow that style year in and year out, coaches HAVE to spend time preparing their players (and incoming players and so on) for that style in-conference that they'll see over the course of a 3 to 3.5 month stretch.......at least if they want to compete for a conference title that is.

Iowa is not elite enough athletically to force every opponent to play the style they want to all the time, and when the officials allow teams to guard Iowa (and Garza) the way they did in the Big Ten, Iowa has to adjust.

And now that they'll be getting different officials who are used to seeing other styles of play, the theory is that it will work in Iowa's favor (so far as to not be hampered by having to adjust to an opponent's style of play because the officials are allowing it to persist).

Point being, the Big Ten would benefit from allowing itself to open up a bit more.


Or in terms our fans will understand............be more like Iowa.

 

[JStandefer]

No, no, OP has a point. He just needs to emphasize the styles of play moreso than the officiating.

There's a reason so many media types have raved about Iowa's style of play, which is NOT what a traditional Big Ten team has looked like.

Yes, Iowa had a team that could adjust to the Big Ten pounding style of play, but at their core, they want to get up and down way more than they're allowed to do in-conference.

And in the tournament, you're going to get that up and down style whether you like it or not. But you're also going to see several different styles of play that you haven't seen since the beginning of the season (in November) if at all.

I think that's what got Illinois, ultimately. Loyola is just playing their style at its highest level right now, and Illinois was the team that was forced to adjust, and not the other way around.

Despite our own issues (athletically, in particular), Iowa is arguably the most adaptable team in the conference. We've faced several different styles throughout the year and have a squad, when they're on their game, that can adjust however they need to.

And before someone says, well a team that can run and shoot 3s is a tough match for us...........everyone wants to run and shoot 3s, because that's where the game of basketball is today, unfortunately. We've just had to deal with the roller coaster of defensive growing pains along the way this season.


But then.....what does that have to do with officiating?

Well, lets think about it. If teams are forced to play a certain style for months on end, against the same, familiar teams for months on end, sometimes that becomes all you know, and it can be a tough adjustment to break from that.

And when the officials perpetually allow that style year in and year out, coaches HAVE to spend time preparing their players (and incoming players and so on) for that style in-conference that they'll see over the course of a 3 to 3.5 month stretch.......at least if they want to compete for a conference title that is.

Iowa is not elite enough athletically to force every opponent to play the style they want to all the time, and when the officials allow teams to guard Iowa (and Garza) the way they did in the Big Ten, Iowa has to adjust.

And now that they'll be getting different officials who are used to seeing other styles of play, the theory is that it will work in Iowa's favor (so far as to not be hampered by having to adjust to an opponent's style of play because the officials are allowing it to persist).

Point being, the Big Ten would benefit from allowing itself to open up a bit more.


Or in terms our fans will understand............be more like Iowa.

This is exactly right.

 

[HawkInArk]

JFC just please stop w/ the officiating BS, it's rather old

THANK YOU

 

[HawkInArk]

The people that make these posts would be complaining about the same "physical" style of play allowed if they watched the SEC or Big 12 all season as well. College bball fans just love to see fouls called in general. They wish there were a whistle every time down the floor. That double foul on Garza was a thing of beauty in their minds.

Want fewer fouls called. Let'em play!

 

[AJBHawkeye]

Want fewer fouls called. Let'em play!

Ditto, I think a lot of people want a free-throw shooting contest instead of basketball. Fouls need to be called when there are blatent fouls (being a ref isn't easy people, calls WILL be missed), but at the same time the players need to man-up a little and play through the weaker contact that so many posters are begging to be called fouls. Just my opinion

 

[HawkInArk]

Ditto, I think a lot of people want a free-throw shooting contest instead of basketball. Fouls need to be called when there are blatent fouls (being a ref isn't easy people, calls WILL be missed), but at the same time the players need to man-up a little and play through the weaker contact that so many posters are begging to be called fouls. Just my opinion

I share your opinion. Let's have a game today!

 

[IAHawk2011]

Ditto, I think a lot of people want a free-throw shooting contest instead of basketball. Fouls need to be called when there are blatent fouls (being a ref isn't easy people, calls WILL be missed), but at the same time the players need to man-up a little and play through the weaker contact that so many posters are begging to be called fouls. Just my opinion

People don’t want free throw contests, they want to watch teams play basketball rather than rugby. Defenses would adjust and would stop the fouling and grabbing if officials actually started calling fouls.

And it isn’t just the super physical play that is a problem, it’s the inconsistency. Officials will let teams hammer each other for ten minutes then randomly decide to start calling fouls for minor contact. It’s maddening.

 

[tippet1]

The Big 10 hasn't had NBA level talent other conferences have had to get very far in the tournament. They have enough to get to the Sweet 16, the Elite 8, and maybe the Final 4. If they do get to the Final 4, chances are they will not win due to the talent disparity. Until their talent level improves, they will continue to get the same results.

 

[AJBHawkeye]

I guess I just don't see the "super physical play". Yeah people bang around down low, isn't that baskeball? To liken it to rugby is (obviously) a stretch.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

I guess I just don't see the "super physical play". Yeah people bang around down low, isn't that baskeball? To liken it to rugby is (obviously) a stretch.

How often do you watch other conferences, including mid majors, play?............

 

[AJBHawkeye]

How often do you watch other conferences, including mid majors, play?............

Not often, I guess if you want to see "finesse" basketball, and if that is the way things are going, thats fine, but personal preference is that I enjoy the physical style of play. If the refs are "picking" on B1G teams because of their style of play, then it's up to the teams to figure it out during the game. I just find it funny that this board people will complain with ticky-tack fouls, and then complain when fouls are not called.

 

[HawkRose]

20 years... I think there is some truth to it. I’ve noticed that hand checking as been getting called early and often in these games and guess what... players stop doing it.

Examples yesterday was Texas Tech being able to continuously get to the rim in their comeback that fell short. They stopped the hand checking and continuous body bumping on the perimeter but let plays go at the rim.

Without freedoms of movement the game isn’t fun to watch. No one wants a free throw shooting contest either. You can clean up the game and have flow.

 

[IAHawk2011]

I guess I just don't see the "super physical play". Yeah people bang around down low, isn't that baskeball? To liken it to rugby is (obviously) a stretch.

Did you watch the Iowa-Illinois game in the Big Ten semis? Illinois was grabbing and holding Iowa’s cutters off every single screen. Every time an Iowa player put the ball on the floor, the Illinois defender had a forearm into the ballhandler’s waist/chest to impede progress. Both Garza and Cockburn were getting hammered near the basket with no fouls called. If you enjoy watching that style of basketball, good for you, I guess. Many people don’t.

 

[blockm2]

In the last 20 years Big Ten schools have outperformed their seed in the NCAA tournament more than any other conference. They have also sent the most teams to the Final Four over that stretch. They have the 2nd most total tourney wins to the ACC (ACC had better seeded teams, however).

 

[bdcolt45er]

20 years... I think there is some truth to it. I’ve noticed that hand checking as been getting called early and often in these games and guess what... players stop doing it.

Examples yesterday was Texas Tech being able to continuously get to the rim in their comeback that fell short. They stopped the hand checking and continuous body bumping on the perimeter but let plays go at the rim.

Without freedoms of movement the game isn’t fun to watch. No one wants a free throw shooting contest either. You can clean up the game and have flow.

The off the ball movement is the biggest issue in the Big 10. There are several teams that play particularly physical off the ball. They know the officials aren't going to call a foul on every possession so they are willing to accummulate some fouls in exchange for limiting off the ball movement. The other area I notice is that guys being screened get away with a lot of holding and grabbing off the rub. Coming through the screen guys are grabbing a jersey or an arm to slow the guy down then letting it go. I don't see this as much in the ACC and some of the other leagues.

 

[AJBHawkeye]

If you enjoy watching that style of basketball, good for you, I guess. Many people don’t.

I do

 

[Ronman]

The reason the Big Ten hasn't won a title in 20 years is because the conference hasn't been as good as other conferences come tournament time.

Conferences don't win National Titles. Individual teams do.

 

[longliveCS40]

Conferences don't win National Titles. Individual teams do.

You mean to tell me these aren't conference all-star teams I've been watching play each other? 🙄

 

[SSG T]

I guess I just don't see the "super physical play". Yeah people bang around down low, isn't that baskeball? To liken it to rugby is (obviously) a stretch.

It's not the inside play that's the problem, that happens in every level of basketball, including the NBA. It the grabbing and holding that goes on outside thats the problem. When guys try to cut and their jerseys get pulled tight, or their off arm doesn't follow through like it should, and there is no call, it's a problem.

And like some have mentioned, it won't get called for an entire half, or 38 minutes, then gets called 6 times late in 2nd half. The consistency sucks.

Fix those things and teams will adjust. There will absolutely be games, even for months, where 50 FTs are shot and 8 guys foul out. So what? Fix the problem and that goes away.

 

[SSG T]

Did you watch the Iowa-Illinois game in the Big Ten semis? Illinois was grabbing and holding Iowa’s cutters off every single screen. Every time an Iowa player put the ball on the floor, the Illinois defender had a forearm into the ballhandler’s waist/chest to impede progress. Both Garza and Cockburn were getting hammered near the basket with no fouls called. If you enjoy watching that style of basketball, good for you, I guess. Many people don’t.

That style of play sucks. And it didn't used to be that way. And, it's a big reason why I'll watch a random NBA game before a random college game.

 

[retrodent]

I wish they would call a charge when the bugs multiple back bump their way to the rim. Let them do it once, second bang is a charge call

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

Exactly. Allow players to play the game! Not get mugged by Illannoy, MSU, Wiksy, etc.

Totally different style of play. Basketbrawl vs basketball the rest of the country is playing!

If you eat your cheese sandwich grilled one day, and not grilled the next, is there a taste difference??? If you allow holding on the line for football vs calling the obvious, how much more does it open the offense???

The point is, you get used to the B1G style of play (which the F'n rest of the country isn't playing!!), then you play that style. Every move to the basket is different. How you defend is different. How you try to score IS DIFFERENT...

Over 20 years, no title...and the B1G has had some great talent. And excellent coaching. We should NOT be last in the P6.

No, no, OP has a point. He just needs to emphasize the styles of play moreso than the officiating.

There's a reason so many media types have raved about Iowa's style of play, which is NOT what a traditional Big Ten team has looked like.

Yes, Iowa had a team that could adjust to the Big Ten pounding style of play, but at their core, they want to get up and down way more than they're allowed to do in-conference.

And in the tournament, you're going to get that up and down style whether you like it or not. But you're also going to see several different styles of play that you haven't seen since the beginning of the season (in November) if at all.

I think that's what got Illinois, ultimately. Loyola is just playing their style at its highest level right now, and Illinois was the team that was forced to adjust, and not the other way around.

Despite our own issues (athletically, in particular), Iowa is arguably the most adaptable team in the conference. We've faced several different styles throughout the year and have a squad, when they're on their game, that can adjust however they need to.

And before someone says, well a team that can run and shoot 3s is a tough match for us...........everyone wants to run and shoot 3s, because that's where the game of basketball is today, unfortunately. We've just had to deal with the roller coaster of defensive growing pains along the way this season.


But then.....what does that have to do with officiating?

Well, lets think about it. If teams are forced to play a certain style for months on end, against the same, familiar teams for months on end, sometimes that becomes all you know, and it can be a tough adjustment to break from that.

And when the officials perpetually allow that style year in and year out, coaches HAVE to spend time preparing their players (and incoming players and so on) for that style in-conference that they'll see over the course of a 3 to 3.5 month stretch.......at least if they want to compete for a conference title that is.

Iowa is not elite enough athletically to force every opponent to play the style they want to all the time, and when the officials allow teams to guard Iowa (and Garza) the way they did in the Big Ten, Iowa has to adjust.

And now that they'll be getting different officials who are used to seeing other styles of play, the theory is that it will work in Iowa's favor (so far as to not be hampered by having to adjust to an opponent's style of play because the officials are allowing it to persist).

Point being, the Big Ten would benefit from allowing itself to open up a bit more.


Or in terms our fans will understand............be more like Iowa.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

JFC just please stop w/ the officiating BS, it's rather old

I am NOT bitching about the officiating against us. Please read.

 

[HawkBall23]

The B1G rules of officiating are horrendous, as it heavily favors 'rape-ball'. There's no doubt about that.


But there's also no doubt that nothing will change. Fran needs to adapt and hire an assistant that cares about the D end of the game, 24/7/365, and not just only when it comes to closing out a season strong (metrics-wise, at least). And said assistant needs to teach the same style of D that ILL, MSU, Wisky, PSU, etc, employ.

IE; non-stop hand-checking, grabbing and holding cutters, moving screens, ganging up on and constantly pounding on the opposing bigs, and so on.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

The B1G rules of officiating are horrendous, as it heavily favors 'rape-ball'. There's no doubt about that.


But there's also no doubt that nothing will change. Fran needs to adapt and hire an assistant that cares about the D end of the game, 24/7/365, and not just only when it comes to closing out a season strong (metrics-wise, at least).

AGREED X 2

 

[blockm2]

The B1G rules of officiating are horrendous, as it heavily favors 'rape-ball'. There's no doubt about that.

Do you believe that when a referee officiates a Big Ten game on Tuesday night and then a Big 12 or ACC game on Wednesday night that they call it differently?

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Do you believe that when a referee officiates a Big Ten game on Tuesday night and then a Big 12 or ACC game on Wednesday night that they call it differently?

 

[AJBHawkeye]

So if this is the case, shouldn't we be used to getting held, mugged etc... thus making us faster, and easier to move without the ball when the tournament comes since the other teams don't play that style of basketball??