Big Ten signs $7 billion media rights deal with Fox, CBS, NBC

onlyTheObvious

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If the Big Ten goes to 20 teams. Would that be two 10 team divisions?

easily see a scenario where Iowa never plays Ohio St. Michigan or Penn State again. At that point is it really still the Big Ten?

You would need to win your 9 game regular season against the “west” to advance to title game against the “east”.
 

bhawk24bob

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If the Big Ten goes to 20 teams. Would that be two 10 team divisions?

easily see a scenario where Iowa never plays Ohio St. Michigan or Penn State again. At that point is it really still the Big Ten?

You would need to win your 9 game regular season against the “west” to advance to title game against the “east”.

As I've been saying from the beginning of this M&A session, the writing is on the wall for the Iowas and Minnesotas of the world. Enjoy it while you can
 
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General Tso

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Not gonna lie, I'm going to miss being mixed up in the whole ABC/ESPN production. Spreading this many games over so many networks/services seems dilutivie to me. I get money talks I'm just not sure I'm going to dig the experience.
 

onlyTheObvious

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As I've been saying from the beginning of this M&A session, the writing is on the wall for the Iowas and Minnesotas of the world. Enjoy it while you can
If the Big Ten ads Oregon and Washington what you will have is basically Iowa going to the PAC12. They will only play a traditional Big 10 power if they have a magical season and win the Big Ten West.

the combined Big 10 and SEC will mean the same in 20 years as the NCAA does now. It will only stir up the emotions of Iowa vs Michigan Ohio State and Penn State in old people.
 
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B1GDeal

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Not gonna lie, I'm going to miss being mixed up in the whole ABC/ESPN production. Spreading this many games over so many networks/services seems dilutivie to me. I get money talks I'm just not sure I'm going to dig the experience.
I like this better. Instead of several games at the same time on ESPN, and BTN overflows or an afternoon game on ESPN or ABC there are now more slots on channels for teams to be seen in. How's this a bad thing?
 

Tenacious E

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As I've been saying from the beginning of this M&A session, the writing is on the wall for the Iowas and Minnesotas of the world. Enjoy it while you can
Keep enjoying it indeed. Status quo is not winning Big Ten titles, but now we get paid $100M a year for participating. I won't say the game is "rigged," but national title dreams in football have been adorable for decades. Even if we somehow bob and weave our way to the playoffs, the likelihood of beating 2 of the top four teams in the country is minute, as it has been been. So we might as well get PAID.
 
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Tenacious E

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If the Big Ten ads Oregon and Washington what you will have is basically Iowa going to the PAC12. They will only play a traditional Big 10 power if they have a magical season and win the Big Ten West.

the combined Big 10 and SEC will mean the same in 20 years as the NCAA does now. It will only stir up the emotions of Iowa vs Michigan Ohio State and Penn State in old people.
I don't think this is true. Speculation I have seen is 4 pods of teams, or no pods at all, with a few protected rivalries. So I could see us playing Minny, Wisky, and Nebraska for the foreseeable future, with 5 to 6 randomly assigned other league matchups, depending on whether we have an 8 or 9 game conference slate.
 
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General Tso

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Keep enjoying it indeed. Status quo is not winning Big Ten titles, but now we get paid $100M a year for participating. I won't say the game is "rigged," but national title dreams in football have been adorable for decades. Even if we somehow bob and weave our way to the playoffs, the likelihood of beating 2 of the top four teams in the country is minute, as it has been been. So we might as well get PAID.
Good point. All of the second and third tier teams become warm up competition for the elite teams, sort of like how we pay a couple cream puffs to beat up on early in the season. (though we don't always beat those teams)
 

Tenacious E

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Good point. All of the second and third tier teams become warm up competition for the elite teams, sort of like how we pay a couple cream puffs to beat up on early in the season. (though we don't always beat those teams)
I wouldn't go so far as to designate the Iowas and Minnesotas of the world as cream puffs. They can beat teams like OSU now and again. But to do it consistently throughout a season is super tough. All I am saying that realistically, it ain't going to happen over and over again en route to a national title. We have very good players and some great players that make it to the NFL in more than respectable numbers. But they are typically sprinkled over multiple classes, and we don't get the critical mass of multiple difference makers all at the same time on both sides of the ball, like Bama, OSU, and Clemson.
 
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pezhawk

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If the Big Ten ads Oregon and Washington what you will have is basically Iowa going to the PAC12. They will only play a traditional Big 10 power if they have a magical season and win the Big Ten West.

the combined Big 10 and SEC will mean the same in 20 years as the NCAA does now. It will only stir up the emotions of Iowa vs Michigan Ohio State and Penn State in old people.
Divisions are likely going away and they will have 2-3 protected 'rivals' they play every year, then the rest will rotate where they will play each team at least once every 3-4 years if they go to 10 conference game schedule, which is the next step. Also read the goal was to get each team at least one game out west each season.
 
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onlyTheObvious

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Divisions are likely going away and they will have 2-3 protected 'rivals' they play every year, then the rest will rotate where they will play each team at least once every 3-4 years if they go to 10 conference game schedule, which is the next step. Also read the goal was to get each team at least one game out west each season.
If Big Ten and SEC get to 20 teams each. They should play nobody outside that 40 team pool.
 
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pezhawk

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If Big Ten and SEC get to 20 teams each. They should play nobody outside that 40 team pool.
That would be short-sighted. They need to keep the fanbases of the non P2 teams still engaged and interested in the sport, otherwise viewership will decline over time.

Whatever the new play-off becomes, there needs to be a path to it for teams like Okie State and Virgina Tech.
 
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bhawk24bob

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If the Big Ten ads Oregon and Washington what you will have is basically Iowa going to the PAC12. They will only play a traditional Big 10 power if they have a magical season and win the Big Ten West.

the combined Big 10 and SEC will mean the same in 20 years as the NCAA does now. It will only stir up the emotions of Iowa vs Michigan Ohio State and Penn State in old people.

After all of the expansion is complete to loop in markets like USC, Texas, Washington, Miami, Florida State, etc, it's going to move into a phase of contraction where it's time to reduce expenses, i.e. paying the Iowas, Minnesotas, Northwesterns, Vanderbilts, etc.

While fans have had a good time pointing fingers at fanbases like Iowa State, Oklahoma State, whoever's been left out of the current round of expansion......their day is coming when it's time to contract because they will be left without a chair when the music stops and it's time for schools like Ohio State, Alabama, Michigan, Texas, USC to consolidate.
 

onlyTheObvious

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That would be short-sighted. They need to keep the fanbases of the non P2 teams still engaged and interested in the sport, otherwise viewership will decline over time.

Whatever the new play-off becomes, there needs to be a path to it for teams like Okie State and Virgina Tech.
They can do that in the playoff.

want to be a big boy conference? Then schedule like it.

Big Ten 10 and SEC can take 6 playoffs spots and what’s left of the big12 PAC12 ACC can fight over the last two.
 

noleclone2

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Here we go. If we end up in the Big "Ten" playing home and home in Tallahassee and Iowa City, I will 100% believe I am living in a simulation.


Tier 1: Notre Dame​

SCHOOLSPORTSFITMARKETCOMPOSITE
Notre Dame77499373
Do I really need to go into detail here? The Big Ten would take Notre Dame in a heartbeat.

It’s worth noting that Notre Dame’s composite score isn’t that much higher than the four schools in the next tier. That’s because it would be a fairly big outlier for the conference as a private, religious, non-AAU school with a fairly small enrollment — although it makes up for that in the fit category with a strong academic score and by being a football rival to many current Big Ten programs.

But it blows everyone else away in the market category. There might be a lesson here: With a big enough market, your fit doesn’t need to be perfect — rather, it just needs to be good enough that you can squint and see it. Good academics plus strong rivalries against many current Big Ten members is likely enough for Notre Dame to pass the squint-and-see-it test in the conference’s eyes, despite its other oddities.

Tier 2: No-Brainers​

SCHOOLSPORTSFITMARKETCOMPOSITE
North Carolina61737168
Oregon60637767
Florida State55588265
Washington49836465
North Carolina, Oregon, Florida State, Washington. I call these no-brainers because they all rate as at least average relative to current Big Ten members.

Why does that matter? Well, the Big Ten faces somewhat conflicting incentives. On the one hand, it wants to expand the pie as much as possible. There’s no harm in adding a TV household in Seattle just because you already have one in Des Moines. On the other hand, it does sometimes need to divide that pie. Of course, this can be subject to negotiation: whether new members get a full share when the conference signs a huge TV contract. But you run some risk of dilution if a school takes from the league more than it brings in.

I don’t think that’s a risk with these four schools. For one thing, as I mentioned, they all have at least average overall ratings relative to current Big Ten members. And they all have above average market ratings (the average market rating among current Big Ten members, plus UCLA and USC, is 59). To some extent, the other categories would probably also improve over time.14

North Carolina, Oregon and Washington are also schools that fit the paradigmatic Big Ten template of public flagship schools which are AAU members and the dominant college brands in their states. Beyond that, there are some variations on a theme. Oregon has the lowest U.S. News ranking and the smallest enrollment of these schools, but the best sports program. Washington brings the Seattle market and 47,400 students. Both schools would also provide natural rivals to USC and UCLA.

North Carolina’s position might be more surprising here, given that it wasn’t on The Action Network’s short list. But in many ways, it’s comparable to Oregon and Washington, or perhaps even a superior option in some respects. North Carolina is a big state and getting bigger, UNC has improved on the gridiron to the point where it’s at least usually making bowl games, and it’s excellent in the non-football sports.

Florida State isn’t in the AAU, but it has a pretty good academic ranking and a huge enrollment. I’d put it like this: if you think Notre Dame is a good enough fit for the Big Ten because of its other attributes, then Florida State has to qualify as well; it has a better fit rating than Notre Dame, in fact. And it has the second-best market rating after Notre Dame.
 

Tenacious E

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After all of the expansion is complete to loop in markets like USC, Texas, Washington, Miami, Florida State, etc, it's going to move into a phase of contraction where it's time to reduce expenses, i.e. paying the Iowas, Minnesotas, Northwesterns, Vanderbilts, etc.

While fans have had a good time pointing fingers at fanbases like Iowa State, Oklahoma State, whoever's been left out of the current round of expansion......their day is coming when it's time to contract because they will be left without a chair when the music stops and it's time for schools like Ohio State, Alabama, Michigan, Texas, USC to consolidate.
We'd have to read the charter/bylaws to see if that is an actual threat. I would sincerely doubt the existing Big Ten members would allow a path of expansion where those at the table can get told to leave. I would add that Iowa and Minny are not similarly situated to Northwestern, and certainly not Vanderbilt in terms of value of their athletic departments.*

*Edited to note it looks like a 70% vote is required to give someone the boot. If we go to 20 teams, that means 14 would have to say GTFO. I would think Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern, Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, Michigan State, Rutgers, Maryland, and Nebraska would collectively shut down any such nonsense initiated by OSU, Michigan, PSU, and any newly added big swinging dicks.
 
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Tenacious E

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Here we go. If we end up in the Big "Ten" playing home and home in Tallahassee and Iowa City, I will 100% believe I am living in a simulation.


Tier 1: Notre Dame​

SCHOOLSPORTSFITMARKETCOMPOSITE
Notre Dame77499373
Do I really need to go into detail here? The Big Ten would take Notre Dame in a heartbeat.

It’s worth noting that Notre Dame’s composite score isn’t that much higher than the four schools in the next tier. That’s because it would be a fairly big outlier for the conference as a private, religious, non-AAU school with a fairly small enrollment — although it makes up for that in the fit category with a strong academic score and by being a football rival to many current Big Ten programs.

But it blows everyone else away in the market category. There might be a lesson here: With a big enough market, your fit doesn’t need to be perfect — rather, it just needs to be good enough that you can squint and see it. Good academics plus strong rivalries against many current Big Ten members is likely enough for Notre Dame to pass the squint-and-see-it test in the conference’s eyes, despite its other oddities.

Tier 2: No-Brainers​

SCHOOLSPORTSFITMARKETCOMPOSITE
North Carolina61737168
Oregon60637767
Florida State55588265
Washington49836465
North Carolina, Oregon, Florida State, Washington. I call these no-brainers because they all rate as at least average relative to current Big Ten members.

Why does that matter? Well, the Big Ten faces somewhat conflicting incentives. On the one hand, it wants to expand the pie as much as possible. There’s no harm in adding a TV household in Seattle just because you already have one in Des Moines. On the other hand, it does sometimes need to divide that pie. Of course, this can be subject to negotiation: whether new members get a full share when the conference signs a huge TV contract. But you run some risk of dilution if a school takes from the league more than it brings in.

I don’t think that’s a risk with these four schools. For one thing, as I mentioned, they all have at least average overall ratings relative to current Big Ten members. And they all have above average market ratings (the average market rating among current Big Ten members, plus UCLA and USC, is 59). To some extent, the other categories would probably also improve over time.14

North Carolina, Oregon and Washington are also schools that fit the paradigmatic Big Ten template of public flagship schools which are AAU members and the dominant college brands in their states. Beyond that, there are some variations on a theme. Oregon has the lowest U.S. News ranking and the smallest enrollment of these schools, but the best sports program. Washington brings the Seattle market and 47,400 students. Both schools would also provide natural rivals to USC and UCLA.

North Carolina’s position might be more surprising here, given that it wasn’t on The Action Network’s short list. But in many ways, it’s comparable to Oregon and Washington, or perhaps even a superior option in some respects. North Carolina is a big state and getting bigger, UNC has improved on the gridiron to the point where it’s at least usually making bowl games, and it’s excellent in the non-football sports.

Florida State isn’t in the AAU, but it has a pretty good academic ranking and a huge enrollment. I’d put it like this: if you think Notre Dame is a good enough fit for the Big Ten because of its other attributes, then Florida State has to qualify as well; it has a better fit rating than Notre Dame, in fact. And it has the second-best market rating after Notre Dame.
I have read that Washington and Oregon would dilute the current members' share of the pie, while UCLA and USC made each slice heavier. I personally think FSU would be a tremendous fit, but some people are absolutely certain the only non-AAU school we would take is ND. I don't really believe that, but some people do. Then there is also the grant of rights issue. Assuming none of the preceding is a barrier, and the goal is 20, my current wish list would be:

1. ND
2. FSU
3. NC
4. Baylor (assuming TX is not on the table)
 
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pezhawk

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Here we go. If we end up in the Big "Ten" playing home and home in Tallahassee and Iowa City, I will 100% believe I am living in a simulation.


Tier 1: Notre Dame​

SCHOOLSPORTSFITMARKETCOMPOSITE
Notre Dame77499373
Do I really need to go into detail here? The Big Ten would take Notre Dame in a heartbeat.

It’s worth noting that Notre Dame’s composite score isn’t that much higher than the four schools in the next tier. That’s because it would be a fairly big outlier for the conference as a private, religious, non-AAU school with a fairly small enrollment — although it makes up for that in the fit category with a strong academic score and by being a football rival to many current Big Ten programs.

But it blows everyone else away in the market category. There might be a lesson here: With a big enough market, your fit doesn’t need to be perfect — rather, it just needs to be good enough that you can squint and see it. Good academics plus strong rivalries against many current Big Ten members is likely enough for Notre Dame to pass the squint-and-see-it test in the conference’s eyes, despite its other oddities.

Tier 2: No-Brainers​

SCHOOLSPORTSFITMARKETCOMPOSITE
North Carolina61737168
Oregon60637767
Florida State55588265
Washington49836465
North Carolina, Oregon, Florida State, Washington. I call these no-brainers because they all rate as at least average relative to current Big Ten members.

Why does that matter? Well, the Big Ten faces somewhat conflicting incentives. On the one hand, it wants to expand the pie as much as possible. There’s no harm in adding a TV household in Seattle just because you already have one in Des Moines. On the other hand, it does sometimes need to divide that pie. Of course, this can be subject to negotiation: whether new members get a full share when the conference signs a huge TV contract. But you run some risk of dilution if a school takes from the league more than it brings in.

I don’t think that’s a risk with these four schools. For one thing, as I mentioned, they all have at least average overall ratings relative to current Big Ten members. And they all have above average market ratings (the average market rating among current Big Ten members, plus UCLA and USC, is 59). To some extent, the other categories would probably also improve over time.14

North Carolina, Oregon and Washington are also schools that fit the paradigmatic Big Ten template of public flagship schools which are AAU members and the dominant college brands in their states. Beyond that, there are some variations on a theme. Oregon has the lowest U.S. News ranking and the smallest enrollment of these schools, but the best sports program. Washington brings the Seattle market and 47,400 students. Both schools would also provide natural rivals to USC and UCLA.

North Carolina’s position might be more surprising here, given that it wasn’t on The Action Network’s short list. But in many ways, it’s comparable to Oregon and Washington, or perhaps even a superior option in some respects. North Carolina is a big state and getting bigger, UNC has improved on the gridiron to the point where it’s at least usually making bowl games, and it’s excellent in the non-football sports.

Florida State isn’t in the AAU, but it has a pretty good academic ranking and a huge enrollment. I’d put it like this: if you think Notre Dame is a good enough fit for the Big Ten because of its other attributes, then Florida State has to qualify as well; it has a better fit rating than Notre Dame, in fact. And it has the second-best market rating after Notre Dame.
Everyone is assuming FSU to the SEC, but I would love them in the BIG, but it would likely end your annual game with Florida.

FSU and UNC would be my first two ACC targets. Followed by UVA and Miami/G Tech
 
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bhawk24bob

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We'd have to read the charter/bylaws to see if that is an actual threat. I would sincerely doubt the existing Big Ten members would allow a path of expansion where those at the table can get told to leave. I would add that Iowa and Minny are not similarly situated to Northwestern, and certainly not Vanderbilt in terms of value of their athletic departments.*

*Edited to note it looks like a 70% vote is required to give someone the boot. If we go to 20 teams, that means 14 would have to say GTFO. I would think Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern, Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, Michigan State, Rutgers, Maryland, and Nebraska would collectively shut down any such nonsense initiated by OSU, Michigan, PSU, and any newly added big swinging dicks.

I don't think it's a matter of giving anybody the boot, it's more of a situation where there are better options for some and they leave for it, damages be damned as it pays for itself
 

Tenacious E

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I don't think it's a matter of giving anybody the boot, it's more of a situation where there are better options for some and they leave for it, damages be damned as it pays for itself
Got it I did not read your post as such. So you suggesting that even if there are two 20-team conferences, those will fracture leaving something like:

  1. Bama
  2. Clemson
  3. OSU
  4. Georgia
  5. LSU
  6. Texas
  7. Michigan
  8. PSU
  9. USC
  10. ND
  11. TAMU
  12. Oklahoma
  13. Florida
  14. Auburn
 

bhawk24bob

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Yep but I imagine there will be more than 14, enough to cover the major college markets while not being a league market remaining for the stragglers to grow. They'll still play football if they want but who is tuning in to watch Kansas State play Indiana?
 

Tenacious E

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Yep but I imagine there will be more than 14, enough to cover the major college markets while not being a league market remaining for the stragglers to grow. They'll still play football if they want but who is tuning in to watch Kansas State play Indiana?
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