Blasts from the past, please forward to 2016/17. (Long)

[DanL53]

No names. Just some posts from the past. I really like being able to go back and read what some folks have said. These are all from right after the loss to Augustana.

"Fran's recruiting catching up with Iowa? I mentioned this in the game thread, but it's no secret Iowa has missed on most of our top targets since Fran has been here. The past few years we've taken quite a few secondary guys it seems, with the loses of White, Basabe, Olaseni, etc... It seems we may finally be seeing the effects of this."

"I don't like the way this team plays basketball. It's not good team ball."

"If you go by recruiting rankings, the OP is exactly right. The junior class was ranked last in the Big Ten. Sophomore class was second to last. Freshman class, 11th. In each class, we missed on our top targets. We settled for fallbacks. We are the only team in the conference with zero four-star recruits in any of the classes. Is bound to catch up with us at some point."

Anyway.

Eventually I responded and this was the answer I got:

"While some may be reading too much into the exhibition games, you aren't giving them any credence which is probably just as bad. The team has too much experience to not have a decent year I think but they also have limitations which the exhibition games showed. They don't look they will be as good as they were the last two years but they still might be able to make the NCAAs."

And here was my reply and let this be my continued reply to the Doom and Gloomers regarding things like Williams isn't playing enough, or we've too many new faces.

"Credence requires a track record. The fact is as a fan base we've doomed and gloomed this program at every opportunity. No, not everyone. And I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular.

But I'll say this. If a person is posting today that we're "in trouble", or that next year we're "doomed", I'd like to know their track record. What were they saying when we were recruiting Cook? Some were certain we'd never get him. What were they saying when we struggled in the preconference games last year? Some were predicting as few as six wins in the Big Ten.

I'll be glad to put my comment that we are likely over-reacting up on your scale against any poster who has repeatedly predicted doom and keeps insisting on the same outlook. Let's look at the results....time and again the team has performed better than expected.

Optimism has proven again and again to have been realism all along. I see no reason to be panicking about this year or the future."

 

[whatsup13579er]

I'll bite. Coming into the season and after the loss to Augie, I wasn't sure if this team could replace the scoring they lost from White. I knew Uthoff had the ability to be a really good player but I wasn't sure if he had that killer instinct or the it factor to be a top flight player. I'm still not sold he has those qualities but he quietly will get a double-double with a couple blocks. The real wild card this season has been Jok. He has that killer instinct to put teams away. I don't think anyone saw him being a go to guy coming into the season. I think he is finally fully healthy, confident and showing people why he was a top flight recruit before his injury. I thought this team had the pieces to be a good team coming in but I wasn't sure if the pieces would be able to fit together. We saw flashes of it early in the season against Wichita State and ISU. Losing that game to ISU was probably what put this team over the hump. That taught the team, and Fran, that no lead is safe when you are playing a good team and you need to put them away when you have the chance.

 

[regibson1]

No names. Just some posts from the past. I really like being able to go back and read what some folks have said. These are all from right after the loss to Augustana.

"Fran's recruiting catching up with Iowa? I mentioned this in the game thread, but it's no secret Iowa has missed on most of our top targets since Fran has been here. The past few years we've taken quite a few secondary guys it seems, with the loses of White, Basabe, Olaseni, etc... It seems we may finally be seeing the effects of this."

"I don't like the way this team plays basketball. It's not good team ball."

"If you go by recruiting rankings, the OP is exactly right. The junior class was ranked last in the Big Ten. Sophomore class was second to last. Freshman class, 11th. In each class, we missed on our top targets. We settled for fallbacks. We are the only team in the conference with zero four-star recruits in any of the classes. Is bound to catch up with us at some point."

Anyway.

Eventually I responded and this was the answer I got:

"While some may be reading too much into the exhibition games, you aren't giving them any credence which is probably just as bad. The team has too much experience to not have a decent year I think but they also have limitations which the exhibition games showed. They don't look they will be as good as they were the last two years but they still might be able to make the NCAAs."

And here was my reply and let this be my continued reply to the Doom and Gloomers regarding things like Williams isn't playing enough, or we've too many new faces.

"Credence requires a track record. The fact is as a fan base we've doomed and gloomed this program at every opportunity. No, not everyone. And I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular.

But I'll say this. If a person is posting today that we're "in trouble", or that next year we're "doomed", I'd like to know their track record. What were they saying when we were recruiting Cook? Some were certain we'd never get him. What were they saying when we struggled in the preconference games last year? Some were predicting as few as six wins in the Big Ten.

I'll be glad to put my comment that we are likely over-reacting up on your scale against any poster who has repeatedly predicted doom and keeps insisting on the same outlook. Let's look at the results....time and again the team has performed better than expected.

Optimism has proven again and again to have been realism all along. I see no reason to be panicking about this year or the future."

Agreed. We aren't playing two guys (Hutton, Moss) that are being redshirted this year and we don't have Jones who would have been playing had he not re-injured his knee.

I hear from a friend every year that Iowa isn't going to be as good because we lost Gatens, or Marble, or we lost White and Basabe, Every year however, we have gotten better. Next year will be the 1st year that I will believe him because of the 4 seniors that we will be losing this year.

The cupboard however is not bare and we have some good players coming off of a redshirt year that will be playing, Jones off of an injury, and new freshman that will add to the mix particularly Cook, Kriener and Bohannon. Pemsl may need to redshirt to continue rehabilitating his knee.

It will be difficult next year to duplicate (19 wins) what we have already accomplished this year. Fran however, is a great coach and knows how to put the pieces together. I believe that some people are over-reacting as well. This program has continued to get better every year.

 

[wyohawk]

We aren't playing two guys (Hubbard, Moss) that are being redshirted this year...

I believe you mean Hutton. There are other reasons Hubbard isn't playing this year.

 

[iowalawhawk]

I didn't watch the Augustana game, so I probably didn't comment on it. It's not too hard to imagine an alternate universe where:

Uthoff was a Robin, not a Batman
Jok was an inefficient scorer and bad defender
Baer was just another walkon
Uhl wasn't hitting 40% from 3
Woodbury couldn't stay out of foul trouble

In that perfectly reasonable scenario, we're struggling to make the NCAA tournament, maybe even struggling to make the NIT.

 

[DanL53]

I didn't watch the Augustana game, so I probably didn't comment on it. It's not too hard to imagine an alternate universe where:

Uthoff was a Robin, not a Batman
Jok was an inefficient scorer and bad defender
Baer was just another walkon
Uhl wasn't hitting 40% from 3
Woodbury couldn't stay out of foul trouble

In that perfectly reasonable scenario, we're struggling to make the NCAA tournament, maybe even struggling to make the NIT.

Please forgive me and no disrespect intended but that sounds like a lawyer. I'm not going to be convinced the world ends after this season just because it might have before the season began, reasonably...but it just didn't.

All we have to fear, is fear itself.

 

[artradley]

No names. Just some posts from the past. I really like being able to go back and read what some folks have said. These are all from right after the loss to Augustana.

"Fran's recruiting catching up with Iowa? I mentioned this in the game thread, but it's no secret Iowa has missed on most of our top targets since Fran has been here. The past few years we've taken quite a few secondary guys it seems, with the loses of White, Basabe, Olaseni, etc... It seems we may finally be seeing the effects of this."

"I don't like the way this team plays basketball. It's not good team ball."

"If you go by recruiting rankings, the OP is exactly right. The junior class was ranked last in the Big Ten. Sophomore class was second to last. Freshman class, 11th. In each class, we missed on our top targets. We settled for fallbacks. We are the only team in the conference with zero four-star recruits in any of the classes. Is bound to catch up with us at some point."

Anyway.

Eventually I responded and this was the answer I got:

"While some may be reading too much into the exhibition games, you aren't giving them any credence which is probably just as bad. The team has too much experience to not have a decent year I think but they also have limitations which the exhibition games showed. They don't look they will be as good as they were the last two years but they still might be able to make the NCAAs."

And here was my reply and let this be my continued reply to the Doom and Gloomers regarding things like Williams isn't playing enough, or we've too many new faces.

"Credence requires a track record. The fact is as a fan base we've doomed and gloomed this program at every opportunity. No, not everyone. And I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular.

But I'll say this. If a person is posting today that we're "in trouble", or that next year we're "doomed", I'd like to know their track record. What were they saying when we were recruiting Cook? Some were certain we'd never get him. What were they saying when we struggled in the preconference games last year? Some were predicting as few as six wins in the Big Ten.

I'll be glad to put my comment that we are likely over-reacting up on your scale against any poster who has repeatedly predicted doom and keeps insisting on the same outlook. Let's look at the results....time and again the team has performed better than expected.

Optimism has proven again and again to have been realism all along. I see no reason to be panicking about this year or the future."

I wasn't posting at that time, but I don't think any of those posts were particularly outrageous. It is a fact that our recruiting is consistently ranked near the bottom of the B1G, which I've explained many times is simply the way it is always going to be because Iowa has too many demographic problems to be a school that gets top recruits. And they had just lost to Augustana. So you have a team that had not been doing particularly well in recent years, lacking big recruits, who had lost some key starters, and had just lost to a DII team. It's hard to be upset with any fans who felt the season did not look promising.

 

[DanL53]

????

Sorry, my writing style gets a little weird. My whole point to this thread is not to pick on posters for ever being wrong. I'm wrong quite often.

But my point is there is a tendency to repeatedly, as a group, error on the side of pessimism. And some tend to take that tendency and run with it, over and over again.

If we are going to get worked up over next season because of things we don't know? After all we've seen go right in the McCaffery era? That's not reasonable.

I say expect NCAA invites, accept that sometimes they may not happen.

 

[DanL53]

????

LOL. Stop that. It makes me giggle.

 

[Tunadog]

Sorry, my writing style gets a little weird. My whole point to this thread is not to pick on posters for ever being wrong. I'm wrong quite often.

But my point is there is a tendency to repeatedly, as a group, error on the side of pessimism. And some tend to take that tendency and run with it, over and over again.

If we are going to get worked up over next season because of things we don't know? After all we've seen go right in the McCaffery era? That's not reasonable.

I say expect NCAA invites, accept that sometimes they may not happen.

No problem, Danl, and I completely agree. If you've followed my posts at all, you probably know that I never complain about an Iowa player unless he just isn't trying. Our current team has no such problem. The reason for the question marks is because I didn't understand the second sentence in your post I originally replied to. Also, I don't think the Roosevelt quote is applicable here. Anxiety, nervousness, sure. Fear? Probably not. Other than that, everything's cool, Danl.

 

[DanL53]

No problem, Danl, and I completely agree. If you've followed my posts at all, you probably know that I never complain about an Iowa player unless he just isn't trying. Our current team has no such problem. The reason for the question marks is because I didn't understand the second sentence in your post I originally replied to. Also, I don't think the Roosevelt quote is applicable here. Anxiety, nervousness, sure. Fear? Probably not. Other than that, everything's cool, Danl.

Thank goodness, I thought I'd really done it this time and insulted a lawyer. Otherwise, yes, what you said works. And I appreciate your posts, fun to read.

 

[thewop]

"I don't like the way this team plays basketball. It's not good team ball."

Given that it was after the Augustana game, Fran, and several members of the team may have agreed with this comment at the time. Glad it turned!

 

[regibson1]

I believe you mean Hutton. There are other reasons Hubbard isn't playing this year.

Thanks for pointing that out. I have edited my mistake.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

Great post, DanL!

Btw, if you like to wade through a gluttony of pessimism, you should have read the football board in August.

 

[hawksense]

I can tell you that my view of the season, before it started, was not a confident view. I loved the seniorship we possessed (yes, i make up words) but was hesitant with our depth. The way we play necessitates a deep bench. Therefore, success relies heavily in quality bench production, even though little experience existed.

I was skeptical of Jok, while others were lauding him. I just didn't see greatness in the sample size I'd seen. Fast forward to a month or so ago, and I was saying that he was ready to bust out. I couldn't have been more wrong, initially, or right, eventually.

I thought Uhl could help. He's done more than that. He's HELPED.

The buzz was on Fleming being the most ready to help. Well, it's been Wagner and Baer and Uhl and Ellingson. NO ONE saw Baer coming. Not many, anyway. Not with the impact he's had. And Ellingson was a afterthought to most. Wagner's not done doing what he's doing. And Fleming, well, I hope he keeps his head up and works hard in practice.

There's been so much value from so many player..... I still find it unreal how this season has currently unfolded. It's a puzzle that's fit together seamlessly.

I've always thought that a team with more questions than relative absolutes was to be held with caution. Answer the question marks with positive results and the scale tips in the favor of a Tournament team. And the opposite tips the scale to an NIT ending, if not worse.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

No names. Just some posts from the past. I really like being able to go back and read what some folks have said. These are all from right after the loss to Augustana.

"Fran's recruiting catching up with Iowa? I mentioned this in the game thread, but it's no secret Iowa has missed on most of our top targets since Fran has been here. The past few years we've taken quite a few secondary guys it seems, with the loses of White, Basabe, Olaseni, etc... It seems we may finally be seeing the effects of this."

"I don't like the way this team plays basketball. It's not good team ball."

"If you go by recruiting rankings, the OP is exactly right. The junior class was ranked last in the Big Ten. Sophomore class was second to last. Freshman class, 11th. In each class, we missed on our top targets. We settled for fallbacks. We are the only team in the conference with zero four-star recruits in any of the classes. Is bound to catch up with us at some point."

Anyway.

Eventually I responded and this was the answer I got:

"While some may be reading too much into the exhibition games, you aren't giving them any credence which is probably just as bad. The team has too much experience to not have a decent year I think but they also have limitations which the exhibition games showed. They don't look they will be as good as they were the last two years but they still might be able to make the NCAAs."

And here was my reply and let this be my continued reply to the Doom and Gloomers regarding things like Williams isn't playing enough, or we've too many new faces.

"Credence requires a track record. The fact is as a fan base we've doomed and gloomed this program at every opportunity. No, not everyone. And I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular.

But I'll say this. If a person is posting today that we're "in trouble", or that next year we're "doomed", I'd like to know their track record. What were they saying when we were recruiting Cook? Some were certain we'd never get him. What were they saying when we struggled in the preconference games last year? Some were predicting as few as six wins in the Big Ten.

I'll be glad to put my comment that we are likely over-reacting up on your scale against any poster who has repeatedly predicted doom and keeps insisting on the same outlook. Let's look at the results....time and again the team has performed better than expected.

Optimism has proven again and again to have been realism all along. I see no reason to be panicking about this year or the future."

Thanks for your good work DanL. I wanted to do the same thing, but I was too busy (lazy) to put forth the effort. But, not to worry, if the Hawks manage to lose 2 in a row this year these comments will return.

 

[Scott559]

You really have to hope a couple of the new guys can step up with some consistency, Right now it's hard to see any clear cut leaders for the 6th man, Let alone 7th or 8th. Will be interesting to see who emerges, Jones has the shot no doubt, It will be all about trusting his defense, Uhl looks like he has regressed from last year so far, Hope he can get his confidence back...soon.

Just to prove what an idiot I truly am, Here are some thought's I shared after the Augustana game, I really nailed it in regard to Dom....

 

[icwesthawk]

Coming into this season there were a lot of reasons for pessimism. We didn't show we could close out games, Woody was the only center on the roster and had shown no inclination to stay out of foul trouble and we brought in some kids that were not our first choice. Now we should have been smarter and seen that another year would bring about more and better leadership from our seniors. Maybe we should have seen that Jok would take the next step, maybe we should have believed more in Fran's recruiting than the "experts" did and maybe we should have believed in Fran's ability to coach more than we did. It's all a crap shoot in the end, you believed (or wanted to believe) and some couldn't see it, I don't think it's a whole lot more than that. I certainly don't believe Iowa basketball fans are pessimists by nature nor do I believe we can or will make the NCAA's every year, but it would be nice.