Brands thoughts on National Duals
- Thread starter championhawk
- Start date
Wait....what???
He didn't confess to breaking his word or some such nonsense?
What's he hiding?
Don't worry guys........we'll have some visitors to tell us the truth soon enough.
He didn't confess to breaking his word or some such nonsense?
What's he hiding?
Don't worry guys........we'll have some visitors to tell us the truth soon enough.
“And we need to start a Division I program at a Power 5 conference school — Texas, Washington, Florida, Florida State. That’s what we need to do. That’s where we need to focus. It can happen. You start a women’s sport along with it, the headlines will go for months. We focus on little things.”
I'm curious to hear this board's thoughts on how to bring women into the sport.
The quote makes it seem that Tom envisions completely separate programs.
Also, as much as I like to see two kids destroy each other at knocker ball during the intermission, I think it would be a great time to hold an exhibition match between two women club members.
I'm curious to hear this board's thoughts on how to bring women into the sport.
The quote makes it seem that Tom envisions completely separate programs.
Also, as much as I like to see two kids destroy each other at knocker ball during the intermission, I think it would be a great time to hold an exhibition match between two women club members.
Sandersons response and plea for.....raising the scholarship cap for D1 wrestling Surprise Surprise!
http://www.centredaily.com/sports/college/penn-state-university/psu-wrestling/article132778609.html
http://www.centredaily.com/sports/college/penn-state-university/psu-wrestling/article132778609.html
I like that idea regarding the exhibition match. Great way to create interest for women wrestling. Get the ball rolling
Texas would be one of the first states this should happen in. They already have girls state. The problem is changing the football first culture of the Universities.
A scholarship increase could be the end of college wrestling
No kidding. I find it so ironic and funny that Carl Sanderson of all people is wining about needing more Scholley money.
Quote from the article
"Sanderson has said that wrestling needs to look into the increase of scholarships for its athletes. He believes that is one reason why a dual championship format won’t work as well with only 9.9 scholarships to 10 starting spots."
WTF
Seriously. This guy is so clueless to how badly he is hording the talents of the country, and he has the nerve to want more scholar money so he can what? Have a top 20 PFP guy back up his top 10 PFP guys?
Stupid.
Wrestling needs parity to stay alive. You need parity if you want other D1 schools like a Florida St or Texas to start a wrestling program. What's the point of starting one if Carl Sanderson hordes the talent away from your state due to increase in scholar money?
I'd like Division1 wrestling to start up in Washington, again.
Damn Cael for going out and getting great talent.
Can anybody be more specific on these "loopholes" I keep hearing about? Thanks in advance.
Really?
Carl is a great recruiter. He also has the backing of some very wealthy donors and one particular big one.
His lineups is stocked full of top 10 PFP talent. He's got an Olympic gold medalist studying abroad in America training with his college kids that he doesn't have to pay.
Now, with all those resources, do you think that's the guy that should be pushing for more scholley money for his program?
We already have quite a few non-fully funded programs. Increasing the scholarship limits would put all non-revenue sports in the cross hairs. A few non-revenue male sports get dropped yearly at the D1 level, because they aren't willing to spend the money to keep them. Imagine if they all became more expensive...it's an absolutely horrible idea in the current climate.
Additionally, I also find it interesting when Cael says he's worried about the dual tournament having any impact on the current format. He's essentially admitting that the current format is pointless, and he wants to keep it that way, so it isn't a threat. Just scrap the entire thing.
This certainly makes intuitive sense to me. I'd like to know why Cael thinks otherwise.
No one has made the first part of your argument more than me both on here and BWI. However, it's a competitive world we live in and the answer is to go beat him at his own game. As for donors, I still don't see any proof of the "slush fund." No names...nada. I agree that there is a crapload of talent willing to accept less money and I am curious as to why. Before, I have rationalized it by parents willing to spend the money.
If Cael is thinking outside the box, how come we didn't before? BTW, HWC is a 501c3 and we have a shit load of fans that support wrestling. Feel free to give (I know a lot of you already do).
Schools that don't fund 9.9 scholarships aren't going to increase funding if scholarships increase. Would just create a bigger divide between the haves and have nots.
The reference to donors I read about from a psu article. Carl talked about how the NLWC had a strong support of donors and particularly one major one who helped pay for the clubs fees, insurance, travel etc.
I'm not saying these donors set up a slush fund for incoming high school recruits, but it sure has heck looks good for recruits with senior level aspirations if they see how much money is coming in to their future club.
It would also create more have nots. There are probably 30 or so schools that will not be getting rid of wrestling anytime soon, 30 more where wrestling isn't in immediate danger but could be under the right circumstances, and 10 or so that I could see getting cut within the next several year. Creating more Cleveland States isn't to the benefit of our sport, and increasing the scholarship allotment isn't going to encourage new schools to pick up non-revenue sports.
Don't forget that the US Army has a "Training Center" in Happy Valley as well and is fully funded by the US Army.
How big of a divide is too much? The divide now is the size of the Atlantic Ocean. Is it a big deal to make it the Pacific instead? Everyone that placed 19th and lower at nationals last year had no more than one AA on the team. Raising the scholly limit won't affect them at all. They aren't fully funded programs anyway. Fact is, very few teams fully fund their programs, and if they do, still fewer fund it to the extent that a coach can seek out any and all out of state wrestlers. Maybe five programs total fit that category? Cael's suggestion may at most affect 10 teams. What it would do is open up a few more schollies for high school kids and make wrestling a little more competitive against football for example for the great heavies.
Truth. Bad idea if the bottom 70 schools dont first raise their limits. They cant, so they wont, and so the rich get richer. Not good on its face.
It sure seems to me like Brands isn't thrilled with the format but is tired of talking about it.....he said what he should given the circumstances....he is right there are far more pressing issues in the sport....I hate to beat adead horse but I thought the national duals were an awesome event when they wrestled it earlier in the year as an actual tournament.....as much controversy as the football bowl system has caused it's beyond me why wrestling would want to use it as a model....and football bowl games are post season....the timing of these duals are terrible with post season tournaments coming up....if its so damn important to have a team dual championship why not have a dual tournament at say Scott trade center two weeks after the individual tournament? have the top 8 teams wrestle off....maybe I'm just dense but the wrestling tournament the way it is has always been a great event and fans love it.....not sure where the panic is coming from about duals not mattering....I've had season tickets for along time and I've never thought that duals aren't wrestled very competitively and not exciting.....think Cael wants to fix something that isnt broken....on top of everything else these duals are competing with the Ia Hs tournament.....
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Back to Brands comments. He thinks rules need to be easier to follow. I'm guessing that's in regards to stalling or done if the new rules being presented. It sure seems that if you want to grow the following, it needs to be easier for the sports fan to follow and understand scoring.
So, some of the things floated around have been fairly complex. Other than the Pushout rule instead of fleeing the mat, what are some others that can be put in place or changed that would make it easier to follow?
So, some of the things floated around have been fairly complex. Other than the Pushout rule instead of fleeing the mat, what are some others that can be put in place or changed that would make it easier to follow?
I agree with the above points except the last one. I believe Cael would agree with you on the timing issue, and so should all fans who have experienced one of their premier wrestlers going down to an injury at the Duals just prior to nationals. Even if injury isn't happening, the teams involved must now change the training regimen just prior to nationals for a tournament that is meaningless. I say stretch out the season and have the Duals in December or after nationals (I prefer this) so as not to impact the individual tourney.
Nobody wants to make weight again two weeks after the traditional tourney for a dual team tournament would be my guess. Not to mention they are physically and emotionally spent afterwards as well.
good points....move it back to December again I guess....It wasnt ever really an ncaa event then though....my take is the whole point that Cael is trying to make is that duals don't matter and he wants to award a ncaa dual champion
Not dismissing your point but how big of a deal would it be to make weight again? The top guys compete all off season in freestyle so it doesn't seem like burnout is an issue. Additionally, having the Duals after nationals would eliminate seed ducking and holding out guys who are dinged up in hopes they heal for nationals. That's one of the biggest issues I have with the Duals. Teams aren't necessarily putting a great product on the mat for the Duals.
you guys both make good points....I'm sure this has all been discussed ad nauseam in the past.....I know when they went to the college football playoff system the extra games....length of season were a concern brought up.....my biggest thing is I want to see the tournament as it stands be preserved....its always been a great event and it should continue to be the tournament that awards the true team champions...Tom nailed it....there are so many other things wrestling could do to make itself more exciting and grow the sport than this freaking dual tournament
Calling it a tournament is being generous. It's nothing more than an additional dual at the end of the season. Serves no point towards anything, with the exception of another day to make weight and another travel date right before B1Gs and Nationals. I guess Edinboro will make some money
I say limit teams to a couple of #1 recruits. Cripes sake PSU hogs most of them and then we wonder why there is no parity in wrestling.
When you consider the NWCA take of the gate receipts and the fact that Edinboro traveled last year, I'd say Edinboro is lucky if they squeeze a dime from this over a two year period.
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