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breaking Supreme Court sides with coach who sought to pray after games

So why are you against this decision?

From the article:

The case forced the justices to wrestle with how to balance the religious and free speech rights of teachers and coaches with the rights of students not to feel pressured into participating in religious practices. The outcome could strengthen the acceptability of some religious practices in some other public school settings.

That's a scary line we start to walk down.
 
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You obviously don't know anyone that has a lot of faith. Because you are 100% ass backwards.
Yes, I do, and their constant posting of Bible verses and Billy F-ing Graham quotes on Facebook is why I really don't ever want to hang out with them again.

But fine, I'll play. Explain how making sure everyone knows you're praying makes you a better Christian. It just makes me roll my eyes every time.
 
Just out of curiousity, why is it that you think the first amendment contains an establishment and free exercise clause?
As I understand it, freedom of religion means that there is freedom of religion, but freedom from religion also. In an era where there is so much hand wringing of the hands on teachers indoctrinating students, people are okay with a coach leading the prayer after the game. The problem with the coach leading the prayer is the implication to players can be "this is what we do". An example ... my son's high school started a prayer circle in the gym following games. He felt like he would be criticized if he didn't participate, but didn't want to participate because he felt it was a phony "look at how good we are gesture" as opposed to a genuine gesture. Kids shouldn't be put in that position.
In this instance, the school asked the coach not to do it as they felt it made it look like the school was promoting it. The coach ignored the instructions. He got fired. At that point, it's more of an insubordination issue than a religious freedom issue.
 
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Nope wouldn’t care. I’m not religious either. I just don’t care what ppl do as long as they aren’t forcing others.
I think the point of the school asking him to do it elsewhere was to not have any kids feel like they should do it or were expected. There's a time and a place for most things. I don't think the school was unreasonable in their requests to of the coach.
 
As I understand it, freedom of religion means that there is freedom of religion, but freedom from religion also. In an era where there is so much hand wringing of the hands on teachers indoctrinating students, people are okay with a coach leading the prayer after the game. The problem with the coach leading the prayer is the implication to players can be "this is what we do". An example ... my son's high school started a prayer circle in the gym following games. He felt like he would be criticized if he didn't participate, but didn't want to participate because he felt it was a phony "look at how good we are gesture" as opposed to a genuine gesture. Kids shouldn't be put in that position.
In this instance, the school asked the coach not to do it as they felt it made it look like the school was promoting it. The coach ignored the instructions. He got fired. At that point, it's more of an insubordination issue than a religious freedom issue.
Dig deeper, my son, deeper. Why put it in our Constitution?
 
You would you mind if a coach did a pagan ceremony at the end of the game? How about a satanist?

That's literally all this is gonna take.

One kid on the team who's a bench-warmer and wants to rock the boat and say a prayer to Satan or some other fringe pagan thing.

And if he gets kicked off the team or told he cannot interrupt the Jesus-Praising, there's gonna be a problem.
 
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And another 35% get triggered and the remaining watching the blowback.
Why shouldn’t we be triggered when a religion is being used to take away American freedoms? That’s precisely what the radical Christian right is doing. Not everyday Christians…but the unyielding radicals.
 
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Sosa didn't feel the need to trot out to the pitcher's mound to loudly pray every time he hit a homerun. But yes, thanking the great invisible sky man every time you hit a home run is also very silly.
They never blame God for their strikeouts.
 
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As I understand it, freedom of religion means that there is freedom of religion, but freedom from religion also. In an era where there is so much hand wringing of the hands on teachers indoctrinating students, people are okay with a coach leading the prayer after the game. The problem with the coach leading the prayer is the implication to players can be "this is what we do". An example ... my son's high school started a prayer circle in the gym following games. He felt like he would be criticized if he didn't participate, but didn't want to participate because he felt it was a phony "look at how good we are gesture" as opposed to a genuine gesture. Kids shouldn't be put in that position.
In this instance, the school asked the coach not to do it as they felt it made it look like the school was promoting it. The coach ignored the instructions. He got fired. At that point, it's more of an insubordination issue than a religious freedom issue.
That might sound fine to you, but a public school can't force one of their employees to surrender his rights as a condition of employment. There is no separation of church and state anywhere in the Constitution as many believe. One can't be forced to participate but one can't be forced not to either.
 
That might sound fine to you, but a public school can't force one of their employees to surrender his rights as a condition of employment. There is no separation of church and state anywhere in the Constitution as many believe. One can't be forced to participate but one can't be forced not to either.
It becomes a conduct issue. They aren't telling him he can't pray. They are asking him to do it in a manner where it doesn't bring a question of being school supported or required by a member of the school. The coach, as an employee of the school has a right to pray ... he doesn't have a right to make or imply to kids that they should pray.
 
Is it possible that the SCOTUS made the correct ruling and so did the school in firing him?
I think it's possible. I think coaches and educators walk a fine line when you talk either politics or religion. For example, I think it's great if coaches make sure kids know an FCA is available as an option. I don't think you want to promote it to the point where kids get the impression that you are saying something they "should" participate in. I think school administrators should always keep their finger on the pulse of that also.
 
They never blame God for their strikeouts.
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But fine, I'll play. Explain how making sure everyone knows you're praying makes you a better Christian. It just makes me roll my eyes every time.
Bump because I genuinely want to hear @HawkMachine 's answer. How does making a big show of praying on the 50 yard line so everyone can see it make you a better Christian? Aren't you supposed to be humble? If you're truly thanking your God for a good game where everyone played well and no one got hurt, and you're really thanking God, not just wanting to make sure everyone saw it, shouldn't that just be a quiet, private prayer? Otherwise this feels to me like the guy who only tips a waiter when someone else is watching.
 
Bump because I genuinely want to hear @HawkMachine 's answer. How does making a big show of praying on the 50 yard line so everyone can see it make you a better Christian? Aren't you supposed to be humble? If you're truly thanking your God for a good game where everyone played well and no one got hurt, and you're really thanking God, not just wanting to make sure everyone saw it, shouldn't that just be a quiet, private prayer? Otherwise this feels to me like the guy who only tips a waiter when someone else is watching.
Though I'm not hawk machine, the short answer is that you are being too circumscribed in terms of what people may view as the role of public prayer. Some actually view evangelization as part of their faith, and public prayer can very much be a part of it. It's not really my thing, but as someone recently said, "who am i to judge?"
 
I've been more or less coerced to pray by a public school football coach. Would you, as a stranger in town going to the only public school available (mind you as a teenager or younger), have dared shared your actual thoughts about the practice? Or just gone along with the coercion since it's stupid sky fairy stuff anyway? I did the latter, I would rather not have had to choose.

Here's some real good car listening for you:

 
Though I'm not hawk machine, the short answer is that you are being too circumscribed in terms of what people may view as the role of public prayer. Some actually view evangelization as part of their faith, and public prayer can very much be a part of it. It's not really my thing, but as someone recently said, "who am i to judge?"

How about the unembellished autobiographical version of this I've shared in the thread which I think is probably still common? Who are you to judge or was my coach and people like him in the wrong?
 
Why does it bother you if a coach does it? Does it bother you if a government employee wears a burka?
I don't think this is a particularly apt analogy. If I go to the DMV and the government employee is wearing a burka I don't care but if I go to the DMV and the employee insists on praying to God before completing my paperwork I might find that a bit disconcerting.
 
How about the unembellished autobiographical version of this I've shared in the thread which I think is probably still common? Who are you to judge or was my coach and people like him in the wrong?
Simply stated, if you were forced, the coach is in the wrong. And I can judge that, because that much is actually pretty clear in very vanilla establishment clause case law. Now of course he can argue that you are/were imagining the force part (I don't think you were, as I've known "that" coach too), and a jury or judge can decide that question.
 
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I don't think this is a particularly apt analogy. If I go to the DMV and the government employee is wearing a burka I don't care but if I go to the DMV and the employee insists on praying to God before completing my paperwork I might find that a bit disconcerting.
It's always amazing to watch them construct false analogies to try and justify things. Parents testified in court that their children felt compelled to join the coach in prayer. He is a govt employee in a position of authority over children and uses that position to coerce them to join him in prayer.
 
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Simply stated, if you were forced, the coach is in the wrong. And I can judge that, because that much is actually pretty clear in very vanilla establishment clause case law. Now of course he can argue that you are/were imagining the force part (I don't think you were, as I've known "that" coach too), and a jury or judge can decide that question.
You (and the people on the right) will disagree, but I think part of the anxiety from people is because this court has signaled that they don’t care about prior case law and precedent.
 
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I don't think this is a particularly apt analogy. If I go to the DMV and the government employee is wearing a burka I don't care but if I go to the DMV and the employee insists on praying to God before completing my paperwork I might find that a bit disconcerting.

How is the coach causing you to waste any of your time by praying? It has no impact on your life in any manner.
 
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How is the coach causing you to waste any of your time by praying? It has no impact on your life in any manner.

It’s more a strain on the eyes. It takes some serious ocular muscles to roll them the required distance when some self important christian douche canoe initiates a public circle jerk meant solely for his own pious self-aggrandizement.
 
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How is the coach causing you to waste any of your time by praying? It has no impact on your life in any manner.
The students that are on the team may perceive that there are consequences for them. If he is praying by himself at the middle of the field I don't think any issue is raised but if it becomes an expectation then it could be an issue.
 
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