this is right. some kids like Iowa's coaches and unis and location. others prefer blue and white or scarlet and grey. pretending it is only about the money is shallow.
Brooks to PSU
- Thread starter therasslinfan
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Not to mention what would their pitch be? Hey we don't have any scholly money right now but we sure would love to have you come wrestle here. Getting full ride level guys with that pitch seems to only work at PSU.
one of my fellow HS coaches here in PA has a really great summer clinic...i often help out with the older kids and registrations. we usually have about 125 to 140 kids for the 3 day camp. Last year we had 4 PSU guys in as Clinicians... they did 3 FUN days of instruction and the booster club paid them for their help. to a tidy sum of 2500 EACH ...when i asked how the booster club could afford that sum.... i was told that unknown donors made NICE donations to the HS wrestling booster club PRIOR to the camp.....who in turn gave the donors a receipt for tax purposes...TOTALLY LEGAL....and then the Booster club paid the clinicians ....NOT A BAD 3 DAY GIG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not a losers mentality. IMO. Just a realists mentality. If you think a "call" is all it will take to get a top kid to come to Iowa right now, you are sadly mistaken. The real recruiting takes time and more importantly money. Each time M* or TnT hop on a plane or drive 12 hours, it takes money out of the recruiting budget, which isn't unlimited.
Now I agree that we shouldn't just assume that a kid isnt interested in Iowa and a phone call or calls can open doors to then decide where money should be spent.
GO HAWKS!!
Not happening here re getting top 20 guys for nothing and if you are telling a recruit you are giving X amount you better be able to give it without hoping for a decommit or transfer.
Yep!!!! Sounds like a shit load of money to be made over a summer. I know our local club pays nothing close to that.
Good start with this? I posted this last summer after Flo made a post about NLWC funding.
Secondly, did you even read the post? Did you even read the 990s for NLWC and HWC?
NLWC explicitly states their expenses are for camps and clinics at a total of $613k.
HWC states their expenses are for "TRAINING, COACHING AND RESOURCES NECESSARY TO HELP OUR ATHLETES PURSUE THEIR DREAMS OF BECOMING WORLD AND OLYMPIC CHAMPIONS THE MONEY RAISED GOES DIRECTLY TO BENEFIT THE ATHLETES HELPING WITH LIVING EXPENSES, TRAINING, AND TRAVELING NEEDS."
So the NLWC 990 is saying their $613k expenses are solely for camps.
The HWC 990 is saying $384k expenses are for funding the HWC athletes and coaches.
So NLWC is spends 2x more on wrestling camps and clinics than the HWC does for all of their athletes and coaches who are training for freestyle/greco international competition.
Do you understand now? You apparently did not read the 990s or my post above.
Why is there this discrepancy? Why is the NLWC 990 stating it's expenses are solely for camps, clinics? Is it a miswording? Does it also include the funding of their athletes/coaches or just their camp expenses?
Why are they not reporting revenue on their 990? There is no way they aren't earning revenue for camps.
As I said, I don't have the answers. I just have questions.
There could be a valid reason for all of this, but right now on paper it doesn't add up. The onus isn't on me to make sense of it. I'm just explaining why people are skeptical and why people are making accusations.
Not sure why PSU guys are over here defending something said on our board, especially if it does not exist. Why lower to cesspool level?
Now here is something that has some merit and makes some sense of pushing the boundaries (trusting it is above board), to help the college kids.
At first glance, I absolutely agree with you ... but, if we look ahead 2 years when Teske would most likely hit the lineup, possibly in place of Lee at 25 during an Olympic shirt, there is no way to know if he - or Lee - would be best suited for 33 when they are in the lineup together. ... It's all ifs, ands, etc., but we've gone down this road before - most recently Gilman/Clark ... the one who got to eat, got the title - just saying!
Do you really believe this is what we at Penn State are doing? The bottom line is that these top talented HS wrestlers want to go where they have the greatest chance to get exposure and learn under a legend (Cael Sanderson). They also want to be National Champions. We respect Iowa for it's great wrestling history, but the tides have turned when Cael decided to come to Penn State.
I wish I was a billionaire I would love to be the next Dupont but without the crazy..
My favorite part as it is a perfect example of how out of touch some people can be, you use a football scandal from 1987 to demonstrate how Penn State must be cheating in 2018 as if nothing in recruiting, culture, or college athletics has changed in 30 years. This perfectly illustrates total lack of understanding of the current dynamics of college athletics. Aaron Brook's father said Iowa had never contacted him, Mark Hall said very early on that he wasn't interested in Iowa, look at every top 25 p4p kid's top 5 when they release them and see how man Iowa is in relative to tOSU and PSU. Look at the situations with Schwab, Zadick, Metcalf, Ramos, all leaving Iowa under "weird" circumstances, 3 of which have been pretty well documented on Flo. Do you think that helps your recruiting? The Gilman stunt at NOC got huge attention for a week. How do you think that played with potential recruits' parents? Look at social media and see how Kyle Snyder, DT, and others have loads of material out there...compare that to a Gilman or Dennis. Which do you think a HS kid would be more familiar with?
Iowa doesn't have a money problem, it has a marketing problem.
While most of your fans are aware of this and it appears the Brands have come around and our now actively trying to fix it, some of your fan base needs to catch up. Crying cheaters every time another program lands a big recruit definitely isn't helping. [/QUOTE]
ARE YOU SERIOUS? "Iowa has a marketing problem" thats it? Sorry buddy but you haven't even a clue!!! Iowa just brought in the #1 class last year. It is this year were those playing by the book would also tell you. There is just nothing left to offer!!!!
Where as Funny State, just keeps rolling em in???
AND while I agree not every school is every kids "cup of tea." Who do you know that wrestled or is wrestling. That would not want to wrestle for Iowa! Iowa is the CENTER of USA Wrestling! From the fans, to the tradition, to the results!
Let me ask you. What is the Home Run Record? For those that were Baseball fans before they ruined it. It is Roger Maris 61!!! For those like you, It is 73 by some Drug taking cheater!!!
So please stop lying to yourself!!!
In the twenty plus years of Iowa Hawkeye dominance, I don't recall any calls for parity or that you're dominance was bad for the sport. What I did here was this except on the other foot. Keys to beating PSU: Out recruit them...or don't. Out coach them...or don't. Out condition them...or don't. Be more aggressive in scoring...or don't. Casting accusations of cheating and/or slushfunds gains you exactly...nothing.
Just for the record. IOWA wins it next year! 25-Lee, 33-hope for some good news(transfer?) 41-Murin, 49 Lugo, 57-Kemdawg, 65-Bull, 74-Bulked up Young, 84- trimmed down $$$, 97- Warner, Hvy-Stoll!!!!
If you don't think Gable was the best recruiter, I want what you're smoking.
???? About what?
I could care less about the "mission statement" on a web site. Again, do the math. Have you even begun to research how many camps/clinics that the NLWC is a part of? Or how many resident athletes the NLWC supports (resident athletes, not college athletes)?
You're right. People are skeptical. Because they take partial info and make big assumptions about it. Like everybody does nowadays.
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Nobody really knows what goes on behind closed doors at Penn St................
People seem to forget, ignore, or never knew that the NCAA required Penn State's entire Athletic Dept. to be subjected to an independent integrity monitor, selected by the NCAA in 2012. The first monitor was former Senator George Mitchell and the monitoring period was supposed to run for five years. Mitchell ended up leaving early and replaced by someone Charles Scheeler. In 2015, the mandated independent compliance position was eliminated two years early at the recommendation of both Mitchell and Scheeler because in their opinion it wasn't needed.
So either Cael stopped cheating from 2012-2015 (during which time PSU won 2 national championships) or he doesn't cheat. I suppose a third option could be that our slush fund was used to bribe both independent monitors to turn a blind eye.
I haven't a clue whether or not our wrestling program is or is not cheating. What I do know is that our wrestling program was subject to scrutiny from the NCAA for three years like no other program was and they found nothing.
Nice cop out. You were the one to mention the 990s in the first place and being condescending about it while doing so. Let's see the math if you're so positive it all adds up. I'm not the one claiming I know how it works.
Also the 990 isn't just a website. It's a legal tax document. And you were the one to bring it up as evidence that all is kosher.
I have read the 990. I read it back then and I read it again. The number you are scrutinizing is not over 600K. It is $313K. This is the number that gets the scrutiny. The other expenses are documented on the 990. So start with that number and then figure in what the six coaches at the NLWC are getting out of that $313K.
But I really shouldn't have to be doing all this for you as this is your area of expertise.
Listen. You are clueless here, but you keep pushing the point farther.
BTW, of the six coaches pulling money out of that coffer, exactly one wrestled a total of one year under Cael at PSU. His brother Cody. Just thought I'd save you the time before you started pointing to that as some kind of under the table deal.
How does your math add up? Do the math!!
Iowa's average class rankings the last 6 years or so was above PSU.
Are you trying to suggest that Iowa is out recruiting PSU? Calling this a stretch would be an understatement. Plenty of other things for PSU fans to defend on this thread, but this is not one of them.
To sum this up succinctly, before I leave to catch a ton of great wrestling this weekend, the money you are complaining about doesn't buy recruits. It buys resources, which are a great recruiting tool in addition to the results Cael can point to. Athletes want to go compete where they have the most resources available to reach their goals
The NLWC has six coaches on staff and seven current resident athletes (it has had as many as 10 in the past, I believe). It also is the home to a WCAP program. They have also hosted multiple exchange programs bringing in wrestlers from other countries. It sponsors camps and clinics not only in PA, but across the country.
There is a reason that you guys have recognized that you need more funding and are trying to beef up the HWC. Yes, right now, the playing field is not equal in terms of resources. This is not an NCAA problem.
The NLWC has six coaches on staff and seven current resident athletes (it has had as many as 10 in the past, I believe). It also is the home to a WCAP program. They have also hosted multiple exchange programs bringing in wrestlers from other countries. It sponsors camps and clinics not only in PA, but across the country.
There is a reason that you guys have recognized that you need more funding and are trying to beef up the HWC. Yes, right now, the playing field is not equal in terms of resources. This is not an NCAA problem.
Your right, brain fart. Well, I will amend that to ZERO coaches on staff that wrestled for Cael at PSU.
so you are saying if we pay a kid 2500 bucks a week for wrestling at some clinic and we do this 15 weeks out of the summer...they could make a cool 37,500 dollars a summer.... from money donated by wealthy donors ..sorta through an OFF SHORE BANK... AKA the Local HS Booster club...MAYBE......JUST MAYBE a wrestler would WANT TO GO TO COLLEGE here?????
Although you are making accusations about "wealthy donors" without any real evidence, $2500 for 3 days for a clinician really doesn't surprise me at all. The last time I was involved in hiring a clinician for a clinic was about 6 years ago and the rate was $500 for a half a days work. You haven't told me what the status of the clinicians (who they were) were, which has an effect on the rate.
I would expect that there are some current and/or former Hawkeye wrestlers that could command that easily. Also, you are referencing clinicians, which is different than extended camp counselors.
Our math adds up to 9.9 and NO ROOM left for others. No wiggle room here or ability to push the boundaries of booster camp type stuff.
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