Brooks to PSU

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

I have read the 990. I read it back then and I read it again. The number you are scrutinizing is not over 600K. It is $313K. This is the number that gets the scrutiny. The other expenses are documented on the 990. So start with that number and then figure in what the six coaches at the NLWC are getting out of that $313K.

But I really shouldn't have to be doing all this for you as this is your area of expertise.

Listen. You are clueless here, but you keep pushing the point farther.

Bro you are in over your head I think. I don't claim to be an expert on taxes. I've never filed a 990. Tax isn't my area of expertise, not sure why you made that statement.

However, it's pretty clear on the NLWC 990 that they are recording 613k worth of expense for camps, clinics, and tournaments conducted by the club. Not sure how you came to the determination that 313k is the correct number. Please explain. The 313k is merely one component of the 613k.

If we breakdown the 613k these are the categories of relevance to potential excessive camp pay:

PDF pg. 10
Line 5: 80k
Line 6: 313k
Line 17: 9k
Line 24a: 68k

All of these categories fall into some form of vague compensation.

Now, could all of this be legit? Yes of course, but 613k to run camps, clinics, and tournaments? That seems excessive.

You were the one originally saying the math all adds up with some basic research. You've yet to shown how the math adds up. You used the 990 as your source of data to claim it's all kosher. Well we're looking at the 990, explain how it adds up.

 

[MVPFAN]

Nobody really knows what goes on behind closed doors at Penn St................

No shit, way more unbelievable too.

 

[dicemen99]

Bro you are in over your head I think. I don't claim to be an expert on taxes. I've never filed a 990. Tax isn't my area of expertise, not sure why you made that statement.

However, it's pretty clear on the NLWC 990 that they are recording 613k worth of expense for camps, clinics, and tournaments conducted by the club. Not sure how you came to the determination that 313k is the correct number. Please explain. The 313k is merely one component of the 613k.

If we breakdown the 613k these are the categories of relevance to potential excessive camp pay:

PDF pg. 10
Line 5: 80k
Line 6: 313k
Line 17: 9k
Line 24a: 68k

All of these categories fall into some form of vague compensation.

Now, could all of this be legit? Yes of course, but 613k to run camps, clinics, and tournaments? That seems excessive.

You were the one originally saying the math all adds up with some basic research. You've yet to shown how the math adds up. You used the 990 as your source of data to claim it's all kosher. Well we're looking at the 990, explain how it adds up.

Line 5 is directors salaries which the names are listed (not coaches, these are the officers of the club). Line 24a is coaches reimbursement which is reimbursement for coaches expenses. Line 17 is a drop in the bucket so I'm not going to go back and look it up. 313K is the number.

You can go back and look at this as many times as you want and this is still going to end up being the number. If you want to debate me on how 313K is excessive when six coaches are dipping into it, go ahead. I'll disagree. If you want an exact number of how much someone like Casey takes out of it, you'll have to ask him yourself. Will you mind if he asks you how much you make?

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

Although you are making accusations about "wealthy donors" without any real evidence, $2500 for 3 days for a clinician really doesn't surprise me at all. The last time I was involved in hiring a clinician for a clinic was about 6 years ago and the rate was $500 for a half a days work. You haven't told me what the status of the clinicians (who they were) were, which has an effect on the rate.

I would expect that there are some current and/or former Hawkeye wrestlers that could command that easily. Also, you are referencing clinicians, which is different than extended camp counselors.

If you can't see how a booster subsidizing or paying a college athlete $2500 for 3 days of clinic work related to their sport is a massive loophole in the 9.9 scholarship limitation then idk what to say to you.

There is a reason the NCAA has a scholarship limitation. It's not just because they don't want students getting paid to compete. It's because they want to try to keep the playing field level between schools. If one rich donor can fund these athletes through excessive summer camp pay that defeats the entire purpose of having a scholarship limit.

 

[greggycmac]

reaching out early.
Offering them club money on recruiting trips.
Overpaying summer camps with club money.
Using burner phones to reach out to recruits earlier and more often than they are suppose to.
Unwarranted academic scholarships.
Just to name a few tactics

As a PSU fan and a troll on your board, you guys are crazy for thinking this. Cael Sanderson is obviously a huge draw on this own, and the state of Pennsylvania is easily the best state to recruit wrestlers. The reality is also that the PSU staff is out working you guys.

Don't be a sure loser with lame excuses. Haters gonna hate in all walks of life I guess, but to make these assertions like this is just silly and quite frankly makes you look like as ass....

 

[MVPFAN]

so you are saying if we pay a kid 2500 bucks a week for wrestling at some clinic and we do this 15 weeks out of the summer...they could make a cool 37,500 dollars a summer.... from money donated by wealthy donors ..sorta through an OFF SHORE BANK... AKA the Local HS Booster club...MAYBE......JUST MAYBE a wrestler would WANT TO GO TO COLLEGE here?????

Who needs schollies with that kind of pay out.

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

Line 5 is directors salaries which the names are listed (not coaches, these are the officers of the club). Line 24a is coaches reimbursement which is reimbursement for coaches expenses. Line 17 is a drop in the bucket so I'm not going to go back and look it up. 313K is the number.

You can go back and look at this as many times as you want and this is still going to end up being the number. If you want to debate me on how 313K is excessive when six coaches are dipping into it, go ahead. I'll disagree. If you want an exact number of how much someone like Casey takes out of it, you'll have to ask him yourself. Will you mind if he asks you how much you make?

Alright, I'll grant you line 5. Now I checked Iowa's 990 and they have no expense for line 6 and the line 24a is their expenses for funding the club athletes. So if you're so sure of how this works, explain to me why Iowa's 990 is documenting expenses for the funding of their HWC athletes, while NLWC 990 is documenting expenses for summer camps and clinics? Where does NLWC record their expenses for their club athletes such as DT and Molinaro?

Also, I'm curious why there is no 990 on file from 2016 for the NLWC? Forgot to do taxes that year? =P

You're speaking from a perspective of expertise and knowledge so keep answering my questions. You seem to know what you're talking about.

 

[dicemen99]

If you can't see how a booster subsidizing or paying a college athlete $2500 for 3 days of clinic work related to their sport is a massive loophole in the 9.9 scholarship limitation then idk what to say to you.

There is a reason the NCAA has a scholarship limitation. It's not just because they don't want students getting paid to compete. It's because they want to try to keep the playing field level between schools. If one rich donor can fund these athletes through excessive summer camp pay that defeats the entire purpose of having a scholarship limit.

There are kids from every college that are getting paid to serve as clinicians all over the country. Heck, my significant other's son was offered $200 for an hour at a clinic and he wasn't even in college yet!

The rate that was quoted is $833/day. Generally, this is a flat rate, so your expenses on are your own. To me, this is a realistic number given the market. Maybe a little high, but then again I don't know who he is referring to. Certainly not astronomically. And again, if you think that Iowa wrestlers can not earn money doing this, you have your head in the sand.

 

[MVPFAN]

If you can't see how a booster subsidizing or paying a college athlete $2500 for 3 days of clinic work related to their sport is a massive loophole in the 9.9 scholarship limitation then idk what to say to you.

There is a reason the NCAA has a scholarship limitation. It's not just because they don't want students getting paid to compete. It's because they want to try to keep the playing field level between schools. If one rich donor can fund these athletes through excessive summer camp pay that defeats the entire purpose of having a scholarship limit.

Nice how the explanation given did not include the part about the outside donor contributions made to pay that much. The going rate for all kinds of athletes would be huge if it was determined by boosters.

 

[dicemen99]

Alright, I'll grant you line 5. Now I checked Iowa's 990 and they have no expense for line 24a or line 6 (the 313k) number. So if you're so sure of how this works, explain to me why Iowa's 990 is documenting expenses for the funding of their HWC athletes, while NLWC 990 is documenting expenses for summer camps and clinics? Where does NLWC record their expenses for their club athletes such as DT and Molinaro?

Also, I'm curious why there is no 990 on file from 2016 for the NLWC? Forgot to do taxes that year? =P

You're speaking from a perspective of expertise and knowledge so keep answering my questions. You seem to know what you're talking about.

I have no idea or knowledge of how the HWC fills out its 990.

I am going by PSU's 990, where the numbers are all in black and white and itemized. Everything is clearly laid out. 313K for disqualified persons is what you are looking at. And again, when you consider that they have six coaches on staff that are funded on this line in some manner, I don't see what you are driving at. Camp counselors would not be listed here, according to my knowledge of the code, but would be listed under the other expenses - which is about 170K, I think, not going to go back and look this up - but there are also many other expenses that I have mentioned before above which fall under this. So the number is much smaller than you are making it out to be.

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

There are kids from every college that are getting paid to serve as clinicians all over the country. Heck, my significant other's son was offered $200 for an hour at a clinic and he wasn't even in college yet!

The rate that was quoted is $833/day. Generally, this is a flat rate, so your expenses on are your own. To me, this is a realistic number given the market. Maybe a little high, but then again I don't know who he is referring to. Certainly not astronomically. And again, if you think that Iowa wrestlers can not earn money doing this, you have your head in the sand.

Yet you don't see the conflict of interest in a booster club paying the athlete to put on these camps? I don't know if that claim is accurate, but the above poster is claiming the booster funded these athletes for working at the camp.

I would imagine $833/day is above the market rate. Iowa's compliance said, "There is some variance in wages paid among different sports, but nothing too different. Most sport camps pay by the hour, so they set an hourly rate."

The bylaw says the pay must be equivalent to the market rate for similar services. Now I've said numerous times before the issue with this bylaw is that it's open to interpretation and manipulation. You could always argue the market rate would vary depending on each wrestle right?

You could make a very reasonable argument that Zain is worth a lot more as a clinician than PSU's 125 lber. Everyone would agree. But where it becomes a problem is when one rich donor can fund the university athletes who are working summer camps and give a school a competitive advantage over other schools.

What's the point of a scholarship limit if this is going on?

This is why I've advocated for the NCAA fixing the bylaw and clearly stating what is acceptable rate.

Even if PSU was paying it's athletes "excessively" right now, it would be incredibly hard to punish them for it due to the verbiage of the bylaw unless there is an additional bylaw that I'm unaware of regarding boosters paying the athletes to work summer camps.

 

[j.reacher]

Are you trying to suggest that Iowa is out recruiting PSU? Calling this a stretch would be an understatement. Plenty of other things for PSU fans to defend on this thread, but this is not one of them.

Not really. Just look at PSU's depth. Last year when Nevils went down PSU used a walk on football player at 285. How much scholarship money do you think Lee is getting vs PSU at 125 + 133 + 197? I belive Shakur and Cassar started as walk ons.

Back to my question. How is Iowa doing it? How about we compare Iowa to ISU? How did Iowa do it with Gable? I guess we will ignore all those national championships.

 

[j.reacher]

Our math adds up to 9.9 and NO ROOM left for others. No wiggle room here or ability to push the boundaries of booster camp type stuff.

I love your insecurity.

4 more years.

 

[BIG10MANIAC]

How is Iowa doing it?

Iowa does not have nearly the amount of top5/top10 wrestlers as Penn State does. They are getting twice (if not more) the top 5-star Blue-chip talent as the Hawkeyes. Just when you think they are out of scholly money they seem to pull in another top 5 recruit, and then another, and then another.... Iowa does not bring them in like that...

 

[jughead212]

Iowa does not have nearly the amount of top5/top10 wrestlers as Penn State does. They are getting twice (if not more) the top 5-star Blue-chip talent as the Hawkeyes. Just when you think they are out of scholly money they seem to pull in another top 5 recruit, and then another, and then another.... Iowa does not bring them in like that...

My suggestion, recruit better and stop complaining.

 

[PSU Mike]

Yet you don't see the conflict of interest in a booster club paying the athlete to put on these camps? I don't know if that claim is accurate, but the above poster is claiming the booster funded these athletes for working at the camp.

I would imagine $833/day is above the market rate. Iowa's compliance said, "There is some variance in wages paid among different sports, but nothing too different. Most sport camps pay by the hour, so they set an hourly rate."

The bylaw says the pay must be equivalent to the market rate for similar services. Now I've said numerous times before the issue with this bylaw is that it's open to interpretation and manipulation. You could always argue the market rate would vary depending on each wrestle right?

You could make a very reasonable argument that Zain is worth a lot more as a clinician than PSU's 125 lber. Everyone would agree. But where it becomes a problem is when one rich donor can fund the university athletes who are working summer camps and give a school a competitive advantage over other schools.

What's the point of a scholarship limit if this is going on?

This is why I've advocated for the NCAA fixing the bylaw and clearly stating what is acceptable rate.

Even if PSU was paying it's athletes "excessively" right now, it would be incredibly hard to punish them for it due to the verbiage of the bylaw unless there is an additional bylaw that I'm unaware of regarding boosters paying the athletes to work summer camps.

The example cited here equates to $20 per participant day. $7500 paid for 125 kids for 3 days. Seems cheap.

 

[pablow]

. . .

Back to my question. How is Iowa doing it? How about we compare Iowa to ISU? How did Iowa do it with Gable? I guess we will ignore all those national championships.

About 1/2 of Iowa's NCAA points under Gable came from wrestlers that would be considered walk-ons at PSU.

 

[Neo_Hawk]

What I learned from this thread: Not much. Brooks was never coming to Iowa, his dad posts on BWI and has stated how much they love psu. From a ranking perspective he has really shot up in the last 12 months and was probably not given the respect he deserved early on, easy to see how he was over looked.

Brody was never a needed weight for Iowa, we don't need to get all the Iowa guys, cuz they don't all work out at the next level. ie: Jake Marlin. Thompsen is a different story, we should have been all over him, he should grow beyond 25. While Brandon is a 4 timer killing it, Carter is still struggling to find his groove. You spend big money on guys that don't work out, you may miss out on a Renteria or RBY.

PSU slush fund, is it real? The camp thing is a huge red flag and has been out there for a long time.I am not a believer in coincidence, so some of this stuff strikes me as odd, like Suriano wrestling for RU this year. Since I don't remember a situation quite like this within the big10 it seems like something more, however, Iowa fans posting and arguing about this is silly. For us it's an uncontrollable. Our staff needs to control what they can control and let everything else take care of itself. Plus it just attracts the internet tough guys from the psu boards. PSU wrestling fans are like Nebby football fans, know it all a-holes that think they are experts in everything and love nothing more than to put others down. Need proof? On a normal thread psu fans here get likes, get positive feedback ect.. On BWI, Iowa fans are crapped on and bullied and made fun of....actually by many of the same psu posters we are being respectful to.

 

[jughead212]

What I learned from this thread: Not much. Brooks was never coming to Iowa, his dad posts on BWI and has stated how much they love psu. From a ranking perspective he has really shot up in the last 12 months and was probably not given the respect he deserved early on, easy to see how he was over looked.

Brody was never a needed weight for Iowa, we don't need to get all the Iowa guys, cuz they don't all work out at the next level. ie: Jake Marlin. Thompsen is a different story, we should have been all over him, he should grow beyond 25. While Brandon is a 4 timer killing it, Carter is still struggling to find his groove. You spend big money on guys that don't work out, you may miss out on a Renteria or RBY.

PSU slush fund, is it real? The camp thing is a huge red flag and has been out there for a long time.I am not a believer in coincidence, so some of this stuff strikes me as odd, like Suriano wrestling for RU this year. Since I don't remember a situation quite like this within the big10 it seems like something more, however, Iowa fans posting and arguing about this is silly. For us it's an uncontrollable. Our staff needs to control what they can control and let everything else take care of itself. Plus it just attracts the internet tough guys from the psu boards. PSU wrestling fans are like Nebby football fans, know it all a-holes that think they are experts in everything and love nothing more than to put others down.

I wish we could all be as good natured and kind hearted as Iowa wrestling fans.

 

[aalion]

What I learned from this thread: Not much. Brooks was never coming to Iowa, his dad posts on BWI and has stated how much they love psu. From a ranking perspective he has really shot up in the last 12 months and was probably not given the respect he deserved early on, easy to see how he was over looked.

Brody was never a needed weight for Iowa, we don't need to get all the Iowa guys, cuz they don't all work out at the next level. ie: Jake Marlin. Thompsen is a different story, we should have been all over him, he should grow beyond 25. While Brandon is a 4 timer killing it, Carter is still struggling to find his groove. You spend big money on guys that don't work out, you may miss out on a Renteria or RBY.

PSU slush fund, is it real? The camp thing is a huge red flag and has been out there for a long time.I am not a believer in coincidence, so some of this stuff strikes me as odd, like Suriano wrestling for RU this year. Since I don't remember a situation quite like this within the big10 it seems like something more, however, Iowa fans posting and arguing about this is silly. For us it's an uncontrollable. Our staff needs to control what they can control and let everything else take care of itself. Plus it just attracts the internet tough guys from the psu boards. PSU wrestling fans are like Nebby football fans, know it all a-holes that think they are experts in everything and love nothing more than to put others down. Need proof? On a normal thread psu fans here get likes, get positive feedback ect.. On BWI, Iowa fans are crapped on and bullied and made fun of....actually by many of the same psu posters we are being respectful to.

did you just call PSU fans know-it-all a-holes while making a point about how well treated PSU fans are on this board?

 

[jughead212]

About 1/2 of Iowa's NCAA points under Gable came from wrestlers that would be considered walk-ons at PSU.

Is the suggestion here that Iowa wrestling took talentless rubes from the corn fields and turned them into champions while everyone else who wins only does so because they start with the most talented wrestlers. They do nothing to coach them up or develop their talents? Got it.

 

[McCulloughd]

Having lived in PA for my first 21 years and Iowa for that last 33 years.... I'll take Iowa's black rich, flat (with few rocks) over PA's rocky, hilly and somewhat marginal soil (in the northern counties) any day... (even with that price difference). By the way..... where in Iowa can I buy that farm land for $8,000 per acre (NOT in northeast Iowa)

South Central, South West

 

[Neo_Hawk]

I wish we could all be as good natured and kind hearted as Iowa wrestling fans.

You can't, I'm sorry, but that's just the hard truth of life. Nice 4th post by the way.

 

[dciowa]

still crickets on the booster paying the athletes... bag men. There will be judgment on people like this.

 

[Neo_Hawk]

did you just call PSU fans know-it-all a-holes while making a point about how well treated PSU fans are on this board?

And you, nice 6th post. See what I mean about how it draws you psu fans over here?

 

[jughead212]

Give up, you can't. Nice 4th post by the way.

Point made.

 

[GOLDBANGER]

What I learned from this thread: Not much. Brooks was never coming to Iowa, his dad posts on BWI and has stated how much they love psu. From a ranking perspective he has really shot up in the last 12 months and was probably not given the respect he deserved early on, easy to see how he was over looked.

Brody was never a needed weight for Iowa, we don't need to get all the Iowa guys, cuz they don't all work out at the next level. ie: Jake Marlin. Thompsen is a different story, we should have been all over him, he should grow beyond 25. While Brandon is a 4 timer killing it, Carter is still struggling to find his groove. You spend big money on guys that don't work out, you may miss out on a Renteria or RBY.

PSU slush fund, is it real? The camp thing is a huge red flag and has been out there for a long time.I am not a believer in coincidence, so some of this stuff strikes me as odd, like Suriano wrestling for RU this year. Since I don't remember a situation quite like this within the big10 it seems like something more, however, Iowa fans posting and arguing about this is silly. For us it's an uncontrollable. Our staff needs to control what they can control and let everything else take care of itself. Plus it just attracts the internet tough guys from the psu boards. PSU wrestling fans are like Nebby football fans, know it all a-holes that think they are experts in everything and love nothing more than to put others down. Need proof? On a normal thread psu fans here get likes, get positive feedback ect.. On BWI, Iowa fans are crapped on and bullied and made fun of....actually by many of the same psu posters we are being respectful to.

Please don't make blanket statements. I have come to the defense of many a Hawkeye poster on BWI. If you are being unfairly treated on our board and I see it, I speak up. In addition, posters on this board have come to my defense as well.

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

Recruiting full ride talent with little to no scholly $$$ to spend is kind of hard to do, that is where the slush fund comes in handy. We need to get a 133 with the $$$ we can get together.

What slush fund?

 

[j.reacher]

About 1/2 of Iowa's NCAA points under Gable came from wrestlers that would be considered walk-ons at PSU.

National champs were standing in line to walk on at Iowa. #slushfund

 

[dicemen99]

Yet you don't see the conflict of interest in a booster club paying the athlete to put on these camps? I don't know if that claim is accurate, but the above poster is claiming the booster funded these athletes for working at the camp.

I would imagine $833/day is above the market rate. Iowa's compliance said, "There is some variance in wages paid among different sports, but nothing too different. Most sport camps pay by the hour, so they set an hourly rate."

The bylaw says the pay must be equivalent to the market rate for similar services. Now I've said numerous times before the issue with this bylaw is that it's open to interpretation and manipulation. You could always argue the market rate would vary depending on each wrestle right?

You could make a very reasonable argument that Zain is worth a lot more as a clinician than PSU's 125 lber. Everyone would agree. But where it becomes a problem is when one rich donor can fund the university athletes who are working summer camps and give a school a competitive advantage over other schools.

What's the point of a scholarship limit if this is going on?

This is why I've advocated for the NCAA fixing the bylaw and clearly stating what is acceptable rate.

Even if PSU was paying it's athletes "excessively" right now, it would be incredibly hard to punish them for it due to the verbiage of the bylaw unless there is an additional bylaw that I'm unaware of regarding boosters paying the athletes to work summer camps.

The problem comes with you seeing a conspiracy in this. And I just told you that a HS kid got $200 for an hour as a clinician, so it's not extravagant the rate. Very realistic. The NCAA can say all they want about hourly, but that is not practice ANYWHERE. You get paid to come. Travel is all on you. Sometimes it might involve an 2 hour roundtrip, sometimes more.

There is no conspiracy. Let me spell it out for you exactly how the real world works. I can give you a concrete example, because I facilitated it. Most of you know I am one of the main guys at a big tournament in PA. A tournament whose proceeds are used to help fund our local program. A few years ago, I came up with the idea to have a wrestler run a clinic for some inner city kids we were bringing up to see the tournament. We are PSU country so I wanted a PSU wrestler (was hoping for DT). I have a friend who's dad is a big PSU fan - sits in the front row at all your matches. We need money to put on these things, so we ask for sponsorships for all kinds of things. The bigger the sponsorship the bigger your banner. Through my friend we secured the services of a recent PSU grad. Not DT, but still a big name which I know will also help us at our gate, because more people will come and bring their kids for the free clinic and buy a ticket to watch wrestling. You can probably figure out who, as he had a monstrous pin one year against Iowa at nationals. Big fan favorite. Well, his rate was $500 back then (he had just graduated), which was very reasonable, considering he has a 2.5 hour drive to and fro. I got my friends dad - who owns a healthcare company - to buy a $500 sponsorship. He got a big banner and was probably very happy that we were using a PSU wrestler to conduct our clinic. This is how operations like ours work.

There is no vast conspiracy with Cael as the puppet master pulling the strings. If San Souci gets lucky at the track one day and decides he want the Bull (just pulling a name out) to teach his kids at their local clinic for the day, he's going to sponsor at the clinic and make it happen if the Bull is available. I guess he would be the Iowa "wealthy donor" of the day.

This is how these things work. EVERYWHERE. And the 37.5K extrapolation is just ridiculous. I can only speak from non-PSU experience, but wrestlers usually are working their teams camps and then pulling in a couple of gigs here and there if their schedule works out and someone wants them. It's not orchestrated by teams or coaches. This is how the wrestling community works.

Can't respond until Monday, but will be happy to do so if you want then. Off to Edinboro.

 

[aalion]

And you, nice 6th post. See what I mean about how it draws you psu fans over here?

well, i gotta start somewhere. I came over to read the Minny-Iowa preview and predictions since I plan to watch on BTN tonight. Saw a post about PSU and started reading and thought it was missing a perspective that (in my opinion) lots of wrestling families spend lots of money chasing their sons dreams. If that makes me a know-it-all asshole, I apologize. Pretty sure I didn't attack anyone nor was I disrespectful, but maybe I am just not self aware and insulted the Hawk fans somehow. If I did, I apologize. I am very confident that PSU operates within the letter and spirit of the rules. I might be wrong, and maybe we will find out that I am eventually. Your board... I dont want to insult you any further, so I am happy to leave if you want. Will make it hard to generate a more politically correct and respected post count, but so be it.

Good luck tonight vs the Gophers.

 

[bammhawk1]

Not really. Just look at PSU's depth. Last year when Nevils went down PSU used a walk on football player at 285. How much scholarship money do you think Lee is getting vs PSU at 125 + 133 + 197? I belive Shakur and Cassar started as walk ons.

Back to my question. How is Iowa doing it? How about we compare Iowa to ISU? How did Iowa do it with Gable? I guess we will ignore all those national championships.

How did Gable do it........seriously? Are you even a wrestling fan???

 

[Wiltz01]

a thread like this brings out the worst.

 

[Neo_Hawk]

Please don't make blanket statements. I have come to the defense of many a Hawkeye poster on BWI. If you are being unfairly treated on our board and I see it, I speak up. In addition, posters on this board have come to my defense as well.

Hard not to make blanket statements when I see 10 or 12 posters rip in to MinnyHawk or Vodka just because they have an opinion and dare post in on their forum. We have of those over here, no doubt, but it's nothing like what goes on on your board. Not that minny or vodka need me to speak for them but it's frustrating when, for the most part, on a regular topic that has nothing to do with PSU and Iowa (unlike this current thread does) PSU posters are part of the conversation here but Iowa posters are not afforded that same respect on bwi.

Do you have good posters, both here and there? Yes you do. Do we have people that love to hate, over here, yes we do, but coming from someone that used to post on BWI, (I have 72 posts and 80 likes on bwi), I had to stop because the psu fans foster such a toxic atmosphere towards outsiders. I am sure a Vikings fan can relate, or maybe the RU fan that posted a rumor they heard about a possible transfer nearly a year ago, you guys have been brutal to RU ever since. It may not be easy for you to see, maybe I don't see all the negative on our board, but as an outsider that loves to talk wrestling, bwi went from great to unreadable in the past 24 months.

 

[GOLDBANGER]

Hard not to make blanket statements when I see 10 or 12 posters rip in to MinnyHawk or Vodka just because they have an opinion and dare post in on their forum. We have of those over here, no doubt, but it's nothing like what goes on on your board. Not that minny or vodka need me to speak for them but it's frustrating when, for the most part, on a regular topic that has nothing to do with PSU and Iowa (unlike this current thread does) PSU posters are part of the conversation here but Iowa posters are not afforded that same respect on bwi.

Do you have good posters, both here and there? Yes you do. Do we have people that love to hate, over here, yes we do, but coming from someone that used to post on BWI, (I have 72 posts and 80 likes on bwi), I had to stop because the psu fans foster such a toxic atmosphere towards outsiders. I am sure a Vikings fan can relate, or maybe the RU fan that posted a rumor they heard about a possible transfer nearly a year ago, you guys have been brutal to RU ever since. It may not be easy for you to see, maybe I don't see all the negative on our board, but as an outsider that loves to talk wrestling, bwi went from great to unreadable in the past 24 months.

I know minnehawkeye personally and I'm sure he would vouch for my integrity. As I've said many times, here and over there, wrestling, unlike any other sport, is a brotherhood. Mostly I believe because we know the commitment and sacrifice it takes in order to be good. I remember one year in high school we had eliminations on Christmas day for the holiday tournament. Idiots making ludicrous assertions are not exclusive to any message board. It's the telephone tough guy syndrome. Good luck tonight sending Jammenz off the deep end. (Meant to poke some fun, not ill intent)

 

[jughead212]

How did Gable do it........seriously? Are you even a wrestling fan???

He recruited the best possible wrestlers he could and coached them up. Just like everyone else then and now.

 

[Bob_Anderson]

Our math adds up to 9.9 and NO ROOM left for others. No wiggle room here or ability to push the boundaries of booster camp type stuff.

that's what happens when you are forced to overpay for kids to wrestle for your program.

Look, this isn't super hard to figure out. You chose to leave the fate of your beloved Hawkeyes in the hands of TnT. Nobody else forced that upon you. Now everybody is up in arms about that fact that you have to overpay for kids to actually come wrestle for TnT.

From a total outsider, no way in hell I would want my kids anywhere near those mouthbreathers.

 

[BIG10MANIAC]

My suggestion, recruit better and stop complaining.

Exactly, however, if you go back and read the thread, most are not complaining: they are asking those who are "in the know" how other schools are accomplishing that feat...

 

[LutherAce]

that's what happens when you are forced to overpay for kids to wrestle for your program.

Look, this isn't super hard to figure out. You chose to leave the fate of your beloved Hawkeyes in the hands of TnT. Nobody else forced that upon you. Now everybody is up in arms about that fact that you have to overpay for kids to actually come wrestle for TnT.

From a total outsider, no way in hell I would want my kids anywhere near those mouthbreathers.

So would you say that they have been negatively recruited to you? Have you ever met them or had a sit down to get to know them? I bet you wouldn't call them mouth breathers if you actually had interactions with them outside of what they show on TV.

 

[Aardvark86]

We all can clearly see that they are playing games and I am guessing sooner or later it will come crashing down!
No, "We all" can't. A few guys who have a hard time accepting the fact that they are getting the brakes beat off them in recruiting, branding, marketing, and understanding the importance of these things have come up with a convenient excuse for why they can't land the same amount of blue chip talent.

They received a large amount of $$$$$ and they are using it to buy Wrestlers PERIOD! Do you honestly think kids who worked most of their lives to achieve greatness and their parents who also must have put in a lot of time and money. They are going to throw away 50+K a year when many other very good programs would be offering full rides?
Do you honestly think a difference of 1/2 scholarship (15 grand or so) a year would be the deciding factor to guys like David Taylor or Mark Hall...whose families relocated across the country not once, but twice while they were younger just to further their wrestling career? Think about that.

Minny and Iowa St. are down right now, but both have history and both are trying to build for example. Plus do not forget the matter of pride in getting rewarded for all your work in earning a Full Ride!
Exactly...history. Ask the top 25 p4p kids in the nation who Royce Alger, the Banach Brothers, Jeff McGinnes or TJ WIlliams are...then go ask them who David Taylor, Kyle Dake, Quentin Wright and Tony Ramos are. Since the time this years crop was in Middle School (2010) Iowa has had (I think) 6 individual NCAA Champs. Penn State has had 17. Which of those two programs do you think they equate with success?

IF the NCAA is going to allow it? Then what is stopping others from doing the same? For example. What if there was a Wall Street Tycoon who happened to be a Wrestler and Grad from a school(I will use Hofstra because I am from LI NY)
Say said Billionaire offered 100 Million to build a Wrestling facility with his name(Super Rich guy Jones) on it and build a Dynasty! I say OK. I offer Kyle Snyder, David Taylor, and Zain Retherford 100K ea. to coach on my staff! Free Grad tuition, ALL expenses paid, plus camps, clinics, posters, T-shirts etc...
Bonuses for every championship you win too! Then we offer EVERY P4P top guy a FULL RIDE!!! (we have 9.9 to work with) We then let it be know to guys like Spencer Lee, Gable Stevenson, and the likes. If you would consider transferring here is our offer.
FULL paid college, 5K for making starting line up. Extra 10k for making AA. Extra 25K for NC!!! PLUS camps, Clinics and a club team with same deal as above guys!!!
Exactly...which is why you see this happening all over the country right now....right?

Far fetched? See SMU Football! Right now it is an un-level playing field. NO different from PED in my opinion! So for everyone else it is. Find away to do the same, or make the NCAA crack down!

My favorite part as it is a perfect example of how out of touch some people can be, you use a football scandal from 1987 to demonstrate how Penn State must be cheating in 2018 as if nothing in recruiting, culture, or college athletics has changed in 30 years. This perfectly illustrates total lack of understanding of the current dynamics of college athletics. Aaron Brook's father said Iowa had never contacted him, Mark Hall said very early on that he wasn't interested in Iowa, look at every top 25 p4p kid's top 5 when they release them and see how man Iowa is in relative to tOSU and PSU. Look at the situations with Schwab, Zadick, Metcalf, Ramos, all leaving Iowa under "weird" circumstances, 3 of which have been pretty well documented on Flo. Do you think that helps your recruiting? The Gilman stunt at NOC got huge attention for a week. How do you think that played with potential recruits' parents? Look at social media and see how Kyle Snyder, DT, and others have loads of material out there...compare that to a Gilman or Dennis. Which do you think a HS kid would be more familiar with?

Iowa doesn't have a money problem, it has a marketing problem.
While most of your fans are aware of this and it appears the Brands have come around and our now actively trying to fix it, some of your fan base needs to catch up. Crying cheaters every time another program lands a big recruit definitely isn't helping. [/QUOTE]

And speaking of comparative social media, let’s not forget that pd3 fellow.