Buttigieg: U.S. may act against airlines on consumers’ behalf...

MepoDawg#

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What other objective should they have?
Well it’s more than just airports. But you haven’t answered questions from others. How many attacks have happened since? If they’ve stopped just one, that’s enough for me. Heaven forbid you’re inconvenienced to potentially save lives. Isn’t that what people want from law enforcement? Prevent rather than react.
 
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sober_teacher

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I don't like false security. As far as I know the TSA has not uncovered any terrorist plots. That's a pretty massive waste of resources after 20 years, imo.

Absence of evidence is not evidence Huey. Yes airport security is an inconvenience and irritating but it’s nothing more than that. The likelihood of terrorists again seizing plane to use as a bomb is probably extremely low but I for one would rather be safe than sorry.

Is that their only objective?

Idk if it’s expressed as such, but it does also reduce the odds of someone losing their mind - which does happen on occasion, and then them turning a weapon on themselves or others.

Sorry Huey, you’re wrong on this one. If nothing else it’s not a major problem for me to simple plan an extra hour into my travel plans. Means I don’t have to worry about getting stuck in traffics of nothing else.
 
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Huey Grey

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Well it’s more than just airports. But you haven’t answered questions from others. How many attacks have happened since? If they’ve stopped just one, that’s enough for me. Heaven forbid you’re inconvenienced to potentially save lives. Isn’t that what people want from law enforcement? Prevent rather than react.
But they've stopped none that I'm aware of. This isn't prevention if it's not happening.
 

Huey Grey

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Absence of evidence is not evidence Huey. Yes airport security is an inconvenience and irritating but it’s nothing more than that. The likelihood of terrorists again seizing plane to use as a bomb is probably extremely low but I for one would rather be safe than sorry.



Idk if it’s expressed as such, but it does also reduce the odds of someone losing their mind - which does happen on occasion, and then them turning a weapon on themselves or others.

Sorry Huey, you’re wrong on this one. If nothing else it’s not a major problem for me to simple plan an extra hour into my travel plans. Means I don’t have to worry about getting stuck in traffics of nothing else.
If any plots were stopped I would agree with you. But not one has been uncovered. So why are we doing it? It comes with massive costs for something there is zero evidence works. 20 years is a large enough sample size, no? It's false security. It makes us feel safer but there is scant evidence is actually is.
 

sober_teacher

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But they've stopped none that I'm aware of. This isn't prevention if it's not happening.

of course that could also mean 1) they have stopped other attempts, and you haven’t heard about it, or 2) the safety measure serves as a sufficient deterrent against future attempts.

im curious, do you genuinely want to open the door to another 9/11 or hijacking, etc by relaxing this secure measure? Keep in mind, if you’re wrong, it could result in hundreds if not thousands of deaths.
 

sober_teacher

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If any plots were stopped I would agree with you. But not one has been uncovered. So why are we doing it? It comes with massive costs for something there is zero evidence works. 20 years is a large enough sample size, no? It's false security. It makes us feel safer but there is scant evidence is actually is.
You are making a massive assumption that just because one has not been reported means other attacks using airplanes haven’t been considered and discarded because it serves as a sufficient deterrent, or that other attempts haven’t been tried, but were caught ahead of time.
 

Huey Grey

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of course that could also mean 1) they have stopped other attempts, and you haven’t heard about it, or 2) the safety measure serves as a sufficient deterrent against future attempts.

im curious, do you genuinely want to open the door to another 9/11 or hijacking, etc by relaxing this secure measure? Keep in mind, if you’re wrong, it could result in hundreds if not thousands of deaths.
I would rather open the door to police work that has any shred of proof that it works. Because there is none with the TSA that I'm aware of. Also, if it came at no cost, I would say employ it. But it comes at terrific costs. Billions of dollars, millions of lost man hours, and pissed off people on planes from dealing with fruitless checkpoints..
 

sober_teacher

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I would rather open the door to police work that has any shred of proof that it works. Because there is none with the TSA that I'm aware of. Also, if it came at no cost, I would say employ it. But it comes at terrific costs. Billions of dollars, millions of lost man hours, and pissed off people on planes from dealing with fruitless checkpoints..

Except of course, when the police miss one, you get a 9/11.

This is not a situation where I think our tax dollars are misspent.
 

Urohawk

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Flying in and out of Florida has been a PITA this year. The FAA is absolutely to blame for much of this problem and Buttigieg’s response is emotionally driven by his own personal experience
His response is what the majority of us who have traveled alot have experienced and it's unacceptable.
 

Urohawk

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No it’s not. It’s industry wide. Just using DL cause I’m familiar with the operation
I always got the impression that Delta was one of the better airlines to work for. They're one of the few corporations that gave money back to the workers with Trump's tax cuts.

As for the pilot quitting at 65, I see no reason for that. A competent surgeon doesn't have mandatory retirement. Beside they have to fly with a copilot. Just make sure the 65+ person is not also with a 65+ person.
 
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claykenny

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Well it’s more than just airports. But you haven’t answered questions from others. How many attacks have happened since? If they’ve stopped just one, that’s enough for me. Heaven forbid you’re inconvenienced to potentially save lives. Isn’t that what people want from law enforcement? Prevent rather than react.

Heaven forbid you’re inconvenienced by wearing a mask to potentially save lives. If they’ve stopped just one death or breakout, that should be enough for you.

Or are personal freedoms only selectively important to you? Because your posting history suggests you thought people should have personal freedom on that matter.
 
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the24fan

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Honest question. Why are airlines able to list flights if they can’t guarantee they have the personnel for them?
Schedules are actually released months in advance . As far as this current situation goes it appears they panicked when demand for travel shot back up after COVID without taking into account the personnel they had . Weather issues made it real bad when crews can’t get to where they’re supposed to be to take flights out . Lots of moving parts here
 
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biggreydogs

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The day after Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg met with airline leaders to quiz them about widespread flight disruptions, his own flight was canceled and he wound up driving from Washington to New York.

“That is happening to a lot of people, and that is exactly why we are paying close attention here to what can be done and how to make sure that the airlines are delivering,” Buttigieg told The Associated Press in an interview Saturday.

Buttigieg said he is pushing the airlines to stress-test their summer schedules to ensure they can operate all their planned flights with the employees they have, and to add customer-service workers. That could put pressure on airlines to make additional cuts in their summer schedules.

Buttigieg said his department could take enforcement actions against airlines that fail to live up to consumer-protection standards. But first, he said, he wants to see whether there are major flight disruptions over the July Fourth holiday weekend and the rest of the summer.

Enforcement actions can results in fines, although they tend to be small. Air Canada agreed to pay a $2 million fine last year over slow refunds.

During Thursday’s virtual meeting, airline executives described steps they are taking to avoid a repeat of the Memorial Day weekend, when about 2,800 flights were canceled. “Now we’re going to see how those steps measure up,” Buttigieg said.

Travel is back. On Friday, more than 2.4 million people passed through security checkpoints at U.S. airports, coming within about 12,500 of breaking the pandemic-era high recorded on the Sunday after Thanksgiving last year.

The record surely would have been broken had airlines not canceled 1,400 flights, many of them because thunderstorms hit parts of the East Coast. A day earlier, airlines scrubbed more than 1,700 flights, according to tracking service FlightAware.

Weather is always a wild card when it comes to flying in summer, but airlines have also acknowledged staffing shortages as travel roared back faster than expected from pandemic lows. Airlines are scrambling to hire pilots and other workers to replace employees whom they encouraged to quit after the pandemic hit.

It takes months to hire and train a pilot to meet federal safety standards, but the Transportation Department sees no reason the airlines cannot immediately add customer-service representatives to help passengers rebook if their flight is canceled.

The government has its own staffing challenges.

Shortages at the Federal Aviation Administration, part of Buttigieg’s department, have contributed to flight delays in Florida. The FAA promises to increase staffing there. The Transportation Security Administration, an agency within the Department of Homeland Security, has created a roving force of 1,000 screeners who can be dispatched to airports where checkpoint lines get too long.


How would fines help the consumers (or the airlines for that matter)? And who fines the TSA if they're short-staffed?
It’s only something to fix when the swamp has to deal with setbacks.
 

Mike Zierath

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Why do we need TSA when we could just let all the good people take their guns to the airport and on an airplane? They get to exercise their God-given unrestricted Second Amendment rights, the good guys stop all the bad guys, and we save a ton of money.

What kind of terrorist would be dumb enough to try hijacking a plane when there’s a morbidly obese middle-age guy with limited firearms training who has a gun visibly strapped to his belt?
I know you are being sarcastic, but I actually laughed out loud at that...........:)

Z
 

billanole

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Maybe the Biden administration shouldn't have put that stupid mask policy in place that brought the crazy out in some people and made working for an airline a miserable experience.

And now, when airlines are struggling to get anybody to work for them, the Biden administration wants to know why
Do tell. Details, perhaps?
 

Mike Zierath

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If any plots were stopped I would agree with you. But not one has been uncovered. So why are we doing it? It comes with massive costs for something there is zero evidence works. 20 years is a large enough sample size, no? It's false security. It makes us feel safer but there is scant evidence is actually is.
Tell that to Israel. They have had the strictest Airline security since? The 76 Olympics? Or was it the Sabena Flight 571? Which ever it was, there hasn't been an attempted hijacking since 1972.

If TSA prevents anyone from doing what they did on 9/11, or, even makes them think twice about it, I'm all for it. No matter how much I hate it.

Z
 

tumorboy

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Too bad the USA didn't add bullet trains a couple decades ago.
 

Huey Grey

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Tell that to Israel. They have had the strictest Airline security since? The 76 Olympics? Or was it the Sabena Flight 571? Which ever it was, there hasn't been an attempted hijacking since 1972.

If TSA prevents anyone from doing what they did on 9/11, or, even makes them think twice about it, I'm all for it. No matter how much I hate it.

Z
If it's about saving lives we should probably hope for an easing of the TSA standards. One economist study found that TSA measures push more travelers to drive instead to the tune of 320 road deaths a month. I think it's something we should consider lightening up on.
 
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Huey Grey

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They have also run tests to find out how effective the TSA really is. It has something like a 95% failure rate to keeping these weapons off planes.
 

Mike Zierath

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They have also run tests to find out how effective the TSA really is. It has something like a 95% failure rate to keeping these weapons off planes.
link?

Cause every time I forget to take a screwdriver or box cutter or some other trivial item from my work backpack, that I end up taking on vacation, they catch it.

Hell, I got pulled over carrying 100 ounces of silver bars back once. They knew exactly what they were, they asked me if I was carrying them and they even knew how many. Not the first time they'd seen it, I'm certain. My points here, they may have some things get through now and then, but 95%???????

Come on man!!
 

Mike Zierath

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They have also run tests to find out how effective the TSA really is. It has something like a 95% failure rate to keeping these weapons off planes.
Now, I did know someone who got some edibles to Mexico once. They had them in a backpack. The dog alerted on it, the gal started pulling a weeks worth of food out...the handler finally just told her she shouldn't carry that much food and let her roll.
 

Huey Grey

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link?

Cause every time I forget to take a screwdriver or box cutter or some other trivial item from my work backpack, that I end up taking on vacation, they catch it.

Hell, I got pulled over carrying 100 ounces of silver bars back once. They knew exactly what they were, they asked me if I was carrying them and they even knew how many. Not the first time they'd seen it, I'm certain. My points here, they may have some things get through now and then, but 95%???????

Come on man!!

So Homeland Security officials looking to evaluate the agency had a clever idea: They pretended to be terrorists, and tried to smuggle guns and bombs onto planes 70 different times. And 67 of those times, the Red Team succeeded. Their weapons and bombs were not confiscated, despite the TSA's lengthy screening process. That's a success rate of more than 95 percent.


 
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MepoDawg#

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Heaven forbid you’re inconvenienced by wearing a mask to potentially save lives. If they’ve stopped just one death or breakout, that should be enough for you.

Or are personal freedoms only selectively important to you? Because your posting history suggests you thought people should have personal freedom on that matter.
I wore a mask when required and other times if I chose to. Also, vaccinated and boosted. But carry on.
 

TheCainer

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Flying in and out of Florida has been a PITA this year. The FAA is absolutely to blame for much of this problem and Buttigieg’s response is emotionally driven by his own personal experience
How is the FAA responsible for this?

No flaming. Just an honest question.
 

lucas80

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Flying in and out of Florida has been a PITA this year. The FAA is absolutely to blame for much of this problem and Buttigieg’s response is emotionally driven by his own personal experience
Emotionally driven? You don’t think he has data?
 
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ThorneStockton

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Tell that to Israel. They have had the strictest Airline security since? The 76 Olympics? Or was it the Sabena Flight 571? Which ever it was, there hasn't been an attempted hijacking since 1972.

If TSA prevents anyone from doing what they did on 9/11, or, even makes them think twice about it, I'm all for it. No matter how much I hate it.

Z

Fly through Israel sometime, it's a far more pleasant experience than our TSA. I also don't think strictest is accurate, they're more diligent and thoughtful, it's staffed by professionals as opposed as treating it as theatre and a jobs program.
 
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ThorneStockton

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If it wasn't for the changes to cockpit security practices that have been implemented post 9/11, I might be more concerned about TSA's extremely high failure rate when tested.


I also might be concerned about the idea of an $85 convenience fee to access the following for 5 years: "Experience a smoother screening process – no need to remove shoes, belts, 3-1-1 liquids, laptops, or light jackets."

If removing shoes, belts, liquids, laptops and light jackets are essential security measures, why are we letting tens of millions of people skip these things for less than $20 a year?

If they aren't essential security measures, then why hassle everyone else?

Here's an idea let's make the security show so slow that we have to have a dense zig zagging line of people waiting to access it. That way if a terrorist doesn't want to have to go through security to do their terrorizing, they have a nicely concentrated target set up for them.
 
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IMCC965

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Why do we need TSA when we could just let all the good people take their guns to the airport and on an airplane? They get to exercise their God-given unrestricted Second Amendment rights, the good guys stop all the bad guys, and we save a ton of money.

What kind of terrorist would be dumb enough to try hijacking a plane when there’s a morbidly obese middle-age guy with limited firearms training who has a gun visibly strapped to his belt?
Israel is pretty good at airport security, however, we can't use their technique because Americans will get upset.
 
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Nole Lou

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I am 2 hours from nearest Amtrack station period.

I don't know how many of you have used Amtrak regularly in recent years, outside the northeast metro DC-NY corridor. Holy shit its awful.

When my daughter was at University of Alabama, you can take Amtrak straight shot between Atlanta and Tuscaloosa, and we had her go back and forth that way quite a bit. 1-4 hours delayed pretty much every single time. And this was before COVID and the current challenges throughout every industry. Just regular operations. And that's already after making the concession of the train taking much, much longer than driving.

Obviously, a train system can be good, I'm more just making the point that a lot of people (myself included until we started using it) think "man, if there was an Amtrak station/Amtrak route, I would use it!" No, you would not. The first time you took it and the Orlando to Atlanta trip left 90 minutes late took 11 hours would be the last time. Outside the main northeast commuting corridor, it's absolutely horrible and totally undependable.

So when you think about trains, you need to think about not just expanding it, but improving it like 500% minimum, just to get up to the shittiest airline performance. Considering the limited consumer demand for a SLOWER way to travel, trains are never going to happen here as an airline alternative outside a few unique circumstances.
 

onlyTheObvious

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Isn’t Amtrak very slow for long distance travel ?

somebody told me once that it’s a grim experience but you better not be in a hurry.

like somebody said, an airplane is saving you time. Lots and lots and lots of time.

mid a train is expensive and slow I would rather drive and have a car where I am going.
 

jberesford

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I work for Delta and can personally tell you it is almost 100% on a pilot shortage.
The Covid thing sped up a lot of retirements for pilots who were nearing the mandatory retirement age , and the replacement process has been slow. Lack of new pilots and the hour requirements needed is hampering the schedule without question . Airlines did not expect such a fast rebound in travel .
A majority of the cancellations are coming from mainline Delta and not the connection side.
You throw this in the mix with some weather issues and you have a perfect storm .
The last part is the long wait for customer service. See point about COVID separation and they haven’t been able to replace staff quick enough to keep up with demand.
Working for a major airline isn’t as appealing anymore with the majority not working under a union. Low wages, especially on the connection side (you would be surprised at the number of flights that are on the connection side anymore )low morale and overworked employees are contributing to this as well.
Not an easy fix for sure . But until staffing levels are fixed you will continue to see stress on the industry .
Ya it's pretty insane. Buddy of mine has been a Delta mainline pilot for less than a year and already turned down being a captain. He'd rather stay as a very senior first officer that basically gets to pick his schedule until he moves up to a bigger jet, which shouldn't take much longer. They also struggle to find CSRs because the pay and hours suck and the free flight benefits have been reduced. It used to be something career oriented people did in smaller markets as a second job for the flight benefit for their family. One of my best friends brother did it for American (envoy) up until a couple years ago just for the perks. I almost applied for that same job a few months ago for the same reasons. Now it's just a $12 an hour job that expects you to be available basically 24/7 to work 2 hour shifts here and there and maybe get a free standby ticket for yourself at a moments notice.
 

bhawk24bob

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Trains are not a reasonable option outside of the Northeast corridor for a variety of reasons, let's not even pretend that they are.

Anyway, we don't need to be looking for alternatives. We had as close to perfection as we were ever going to get via air travel and it all went to shit in the last few years
 
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Nole Lou

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Isn’t Amtrak very slow for long distance travel ?

somebody told me once that it’s a grim experience but you better not be in a hurry.

like somebody said, an airplane is saving you time. Lots and lots and lots of time.

mid a train is expensive and slow I would rather drive and have a car where I am going.

It's horrible. Other than commuter corridors, it's not an alternative to airline travel or driving. It's an alternative to the greyhound, or not going at all.
 

Finance85

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Oct 22, 2003
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Pete needs to find another gig as a mayor. He's clearly in over his head. I really liked him as a candidate. I wildly overestimated him.

What the feds need to be doing is telling the airlines they need to cut back on scheduling flights if they don't have enough people. Weather delays are going to happen.

As far as the TSA goes, they are wildly inefficient. Go to any large airport and see how many TSA agents aren't doing any observable work. Keep people moving.
 
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sober_teacher

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Isn’t Amtrak very slow for long distance travel ?

somebody told me once that it’s a grim experience but you better not be in a hurry.

like somebody said, an airplane is saving you time. Lots and lots and lots of time.

mid a train is expensive and slow I would rather drive and have a car where I am going.
It could be a reasonable alternative, but it hasn’t been invested in well over the years. Especially in the high-populated areas, there’s no reason it couldn’t be a decent option to flying.