California to Ban the Sale of New Gasoline Cars

cigaretteman

HR King
May 29, 2001
72,189
51,875
113
California is expected to put into effect on Thursday its sweeping plan to prohibit the sale of new gasoline-powered cars by 2035, a groundbreaking move that could have major effects on the effort to fight climate change and accelerate a global transition toward electric vehicles.
“This is huge,” said Margo Oge, an electric vehicles expert who headed the Environmental Protection Agency’s transportation emissions program under Presidents Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Barack Obama. “California will now be the only government in the world that mandates zero-emission vehicles. It is unique.”
The rule, issued by the California Air Resources Board, will require that 100 percent of all new cars sold in the state by 2035 be free of the fossil fuel emissions chiefly responsible for warming the planet, up from 12 percent today. It sets interim targets requiring that 35 percent of new passenger vehicles sold in the state by 2026 produce zero emissions. That would climb to 68 percent by 2030.
Advertisement
Continue reading the main story


The restrictions are important because not only is California the largest auto market in the United States, but more than a dozen other states typically follow California’s lead when setting their own auto emissions standards.

“The climate crisis is solvable if we focus on the big, bold steps necessary to stem the tide of carbon pollution,” Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, said in a statement.

Sign up for the Climate Forward newsletter Your must-read guide to the climate crisis. Get it in your inbox.
California’s action comes on top of an expansive new climate law that President Biden signed last week. The law will invest $370 billion in spending and tax credits on clean energy programs, the largest action ever taken by the federal government to combat climate change. Enactment of that law is projected to help the United States cut its emissions 40 percent below 2005 levels by the end of this decade. Still, it will not be enough to eliminate U.S. emissions by 2050, the target that climate scientists say all major economies must reach if the world is to avert the most catastrophic and deadly impacts of climate change.
To help close the gap, White House officials have vowed to couple the bill with new regulations, including on automobile tailpipe emissions. They have also said that reducing emissions enough to stay in line with the science also will require aggressive state policies.

 

Hoosierhawkeye

HR Legend
Sep 16, 2008
47,505
39,984
113
40
Elon Musk approves

49f478865f794c35975465686d0dde87_xl.jpg
 

TC Nole OX

HR Legend
Mar 29, 2002
11,731
25,478
113
California is expected to put into effect on Thursday its sweeping plan to prohibit the sale of new gasoline-powered cars by 2035, a groundbreaking move that could have major effects on the effort to fight climate change and accelerate a global transition toward electric vehicles.
“This is huge,” said Margo Oge, an electric vehicles expert who headed the Environmental Protection Agency’s transportation emissions program under Presidents Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Barack Obama. “California will now be the only government in the world that mandates zero-emission vehicles. It is unique.”
The rule, issued by the California Air Resources Board, will require that 100 percent of all new cars sold in the state by 2035 be free of the fossil fuel emissions chiefly responsible for warming the planet, up from 12 percent today. It sets interim targets requiring that 35 percent of new passenger vehicles sold in the state by 2026 produce zero emissions. That would climb to 68 percent by 2030.
Advertisement
Continue reading the main story


The restrictions are important because not only is California the largest auto market in the United States, but more than a dozen other states typically follow California’s lead when setting their own auto emissions standards.

“The climate crisis is solvable if we focus on the big, bold steps necessary to stem the tide of carbon pollution,” Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, said in a statement.

Sign up for the Climate Forward newsletter Your must-read guide to the climate crisis. Get it in your inbox.
California’s action comes on top of an expansive new climate law that President Biden signed last week. The law will invest $370 billion in spending and tax credits on clean energy programs, the largest action ever taken by the federal government to combat climate change. Enactment of that law is projected to help the United States cut its emissions 40 percent below 2005 levels by the end of this decade. Still, it will not be enough to eliminate U.S. emissions by 2050, the target that climate scientists say all major economies must reach if the world is to avert the most catastrophic and deadly impacts of climate change.
To help close the gap, White House officials have vowed to couple the bill with new regulations, including on automobile tailpipe emissions. They have also said that reducing emissions enough to stay in line with the science also will require aggressive state policies.



Quality
 

ping72

HR Legend
Jan 14, 2009
33,263
47,375
113
I love laws that take effect in a decade or more. Nothing like saying to present voters...look at what we did...while pushing any problems that come with it along to others in the future.

It would be stupid to make a rule like this that doesn’t give the industry time to prepare/adapt. It’s not like they could say it starts 2023, there aren’t enough cars ready.
 
Last edited:

torbee

HR King
Gold Member
My favorite part about the outrage this will engender is all the people who will say "See, California sucks and no one wants to live there!" while it continues to have among the highest real estate values in North America because of how much people want to live there.

Carry on with the outrage though!
 

LuciousBDragon

HR Heisman
Gold Member
Aug 31, 2017
8,043
10,513
113
The American Southwest
Nevada & Arizona say thanks and will look forward to California buyers! California will still get the emissions.

Nice work California!

Oregon will likely go the way of California and Idaho dealers will be more than happy to sell cars to them.
 

BioHawk

HR Legend
Sep 21, 2005
39,373
40,959
113
Most car companies have at least verbally committed to being a fully electric vehicle line up by 2035 so I don't think this law is going to be the abrupt impact you would think by the headline. It will probably be difficult to find anything gas powered to begin with.

The article is behind a paywall so I don't know if it is mentioned, but the only question I have is if this includes diesel vehicles because I imagine things like heavy construction equipment and such won't have very many electric options (or they might, who knows what people will develop).
 

St. Louis Hawk

HR Legend
Gold Member
Feb 5, 2003
28,253
52,398
113
Doesn't banning it make it illegal?
It's a product that is certified for sale throughout the United States by the Federal Government under a number of statutes including the MVA and the FMVSS.

I'd like to see California's legal authority to prohibit all sales of that product in the state.

I haven't looked recently, but I know the State of Iowa tried to ban double trailer semis in the 1980's and the Supreme Court said that violated the Commerce Clause.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jamesvanderwulf

torbee

HR King
Gold Member
It's a product that is certified for sale throughout the United States by the Federal Government under a number of statutes including the MVA and the FMVSS.

I'd like to see California's legal authority to prohibit all sales of that product in the state.

I haven't looked recently, but I know the State of Iowa tried to ban double trailer semis in the 1980's and the Supreme Court said that violated the Commerce Clause.
Is it that unusual for states to be able to choose what is legal to sell and what isn't?

Just here in the QC you can buy cannabis in Illinois but not in Iowa.
In Iowa, you can buy fireworks, but not in Illinois.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BioHawk and nelly02

DirtyJohns97

HR Heisman
Oct 2, 2001
5,028
3,061
113
Nevada & Arizona say thanks and will look forward to California buyers! California will still get the emissions.

Nice work California!

Oregon will likely go the way of California and Idaho dealers will be more than happy to sell cars to them.
Ive got plenty of time to work on my Uber style app that connects pregnant teens from red states with potential gasoline fueled new car buyers from blue states
 

torbee

HR King
Gold Member
So no more Lamborghinis and Ferraris for Hollywood movie stars and pro athletes. Good luck.
I think they'll muddle through, lol.

dcq6hhd-665b256d-27ca-4a0c-ae08-b4cadd04d15f.jpg




0x0.jpg

 

St. Louis Hawk

HR Legend
Gold Member
Feb 5, 2003
28,253
52,398
113
Is it that unusual for states to be able to choose what is legal to sell and what isn't?

Just here in the QC you can buy cannabis in Illinois but not in Iowa.
In Iowa, you can buy fireworks, but not in Illinois.

Most of those state laws are based on health and safety concerns, or the fact that MJ isn’t federally legal.

But cars are certified to comply with federal safety and emission standards.

I would think federal compliance would prohibit a complete ban by a state - much like the argument that a state can’t ban federally approved abortion drugs.

As I said, I’d love to see CA’s legal authority for this law. Because if it passes, they should at least rename it the California Constitutional Attorneys Full Employment and Third Vacation Home Act because there will be a shit ton of lawsuits filed.
 

torbee

HR King
Gold Member
Most of those state laws are based on health and safety concerns, or the fact that MJ isn’t federally legal.

But cars are certified to comply with federal safety and emission standards.

I would think federal compliance would prohibit a complete ban by a state - much like the argument that a state can’t ban federally approved abortion drugs.

As I said, I’d love to see CA’s legal authority for this law. Because if it passes, they should at least rename it the California Constitutional Attorneys Full Employment and Third Vacation Home Act because there will be a shit ton of lawsuits filed.
I presume health and safety concerns will be their defense of the decision. I'd say trying to prevent climate apocalypse is a pretty good "public interest" argument.

Agree with your point on the lawsuits and lawyers --- they will definitely have a field day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MilleGinja

ZachJump

HR All-State
Gold Member
May 28, 2022
729
839
93
Most of those state laws are based on health and safety concerns, or the fact that MJ isn’t federally legal.

But cars are certified to comply with federal safety and emission standards.

I would think federal compliance would prohibit a complete ban by a state - much like the argument that a state can’t ban federally approved abortion drugs.

As I said, I’d love to see CA’s legal authority for this law. Because if it passes, they should at least rename it the California Constitutional Attorneys Full Employment and Third Vacation Home Act because there will be a shit ton of lawsuits filed.

I might not agree with the law or the idea of forcing people one direction or the other on what they want to do - but I do believe a state has the right to govern itself.

I do not see how any standards the feds puts in on a product has to do with if if state can ban it or not. Go back to the fireworks example - there are plenty of federal safety standards on them, but states and local governments are still allowed to decided if the can be sold or even used in their area.

I can buy big boy fireworks right down the street...but cannot actually use them legally unless I am in a specific spot in the county on specific days (major holidays) with a pass I paid for.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hawk and Awe

ZachJump

HR All-State
Gold Member
May 28, 2022
729
839
93
My big problem with pushing everything electric is cost. I do get that cost will come down in 10+ years.

What happens to the second hand market for cars? I know what is like to restart my life and to spend six months spending no money beyond food and rent just so I could scrap together $1800 to buy a car. Having that car then allowed me to be able to apply at another company, through which working at has completely changed my financial situation.

Couldn't have done it without that 1800 car.

Now if everything is electric, what is the cost of buying the car going to be. I can see the car values dropping down to beater levels of today without a problem, but then you have the issue of probably having to replace the battery.

Furthermore where are people that live in places where there is only street parking going to charge their cars? Is every apartment parking spot, street parking spot, and such going to have to install a charging station?
 

praguehawk

HR MVP
Gold Member
Aug 1, 2003
1,417
1,240
113
Most of those state laws are based on health and safety concerns, or the fact that MJ isn’t federally legal.

But cars are certified to comply with federal safety and emission standards.

I would think federal compliance would prohibit a complete ban by a state - much like the argument that a state can’t ban federally approved abortion drugs.

As I said, I’d love to see CA’s legal authority for this law. Because if it passes, they should at least rename it the California Constitutional Attorneys Full Employment and Third Vacation Home Act because there will be a shit ton of lawsuits filed.
Are you really not aware of California setting emissions standards?
 

Hendy hawk

HR All-American
Aug 21, 2002
4,440
2,893
113
I don't know if 2035 is too far out to be effective with all the bad weather we are seeing now.
What my question is say if everyone in California and in New York has electric cars/trucks
will our grids be able to handle it all and not have blackouts while charging vehicles say in the evening.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LetsGoHawks83

St. Louis Hawk

HR Legend
Gold Member
Feb 5, 2003
28,253
52,398
113
Are you really not aware of California setting emissions standards?

Of course. But even regulations have limitations. Supreme Court said Iowa couldn't regulate double trailers because it was a commerce clause violation.

California is proposing a complete ban, which goes further than regulation. As I said, I don't know the answer, but my bet is they can't do it.
 

CJBauer

HR Legend
Staff
Dec 21, 2001
11,651
5,700
113
Newtown, PA
Good luck to California on that lawsuit. Can't sell a legal product in the state?

Of course. But even regulations have limitations. Supreme Court said Iowa couldn't regulate double trailers because it was a commerce clause violation.

California is proposing a complete ban, which goes further than regulation. As I said, I don't know the answer, but my bet is they can't do it.
There are thousands of aftermarket exhaust products that are legal in 49 states that cannot be sold in CA...
 

BelemNole

HR Legend
Mar 29, 2002
33,339
69,800
113
So no more Lamborghinis and Ferraris for Hollywood movie stars and pro athletes. Good luck.

Are they banning the heavy diesel equipment needed to mine the materials needed for EV batteries?
Ferrari will have an EV by 2025. And you can still own a gas vehicle in CA after 2035 - you just can't buy a NEW one.

As a CA resident I'm thrilled all you people found another reason not to move here.
 

IaHawk44

HR MVP
Feb 20, 2006
1,609
1,769
113
Most of those state laws are based on health and safety concerns, or the fact that MJ isn’t federally legal.

But cars are certified to comply with federal safety and emission standards.

I would think federal compliance would prohibit a complete ban by a state - much like the argument that a state can’t ban federally approved abortion drugs.

As I said, I’d love to see CA’s legal authority for this law. Because if it passes, they should at least rename it the California Constitutional Attorneys Full Employment and Third Vacation Home Act because there will be a shit ton of lawsuits filed.
Controlling emissions would be protecting it's citizen's right to life as described by their constitution.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cigaretteman

desihawk

HR Heisman
Oct 1, 2002
8,860
8,462
113
what happens if californians just start buying big ass pick up trucks or suvs instead of cars? (if gas trucks are also banned, i withdraw the question)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gimmered

St. Louis Hawk

HR Legend
Gold Member
Feb 5, 2003
28,253
52,398
113
Haven’t had a good Dormant Commerce Clause Clause case in a while, I can’t wait to see this Supreme Court puts its stamp on it

I'd love to see two cases go up - California trying to ban gasoline powered cars and red states trying to ban the purchase of federally approved and legal abortion drugs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gimmered

NoleinATL

HR Legend
Oct 29, 2006
22,659
6,802
113
It's a product that is certified for sale throughout the United States by the Federal Government under a number of statutes including the MVA and the FMVSS.

I'd like to see California's legal authority to prohibit all sales of that product in the state.

I haven't looked recently, but I know the State of Iowa tried to ban double trailer semis in the 1980's and the Supreme Court said that violated the Commerce Clause.

California banned gas-powered lawn equipment and that starts in 2024, so if a challenge can be made, would likely start then, as I read there were more than a few people that were upset with the new law
 
  • Like
Reactions: cigaretteman

St. Louis Hawk

HR Legend
Gold Member
Feb 5, 2003
28,253
52,398
113
what happens if californians just start buying big ass pick up trucks or suvs instead of cars? (if gas trucks are also banned, i withdraw the question)

What happens if they buy them in Nevada and Oregon and drive them into CA; will CA not allow them to be licensed and registered? That's a commerce clause problem too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ZachJump