Can VP Harris Overrule the Senate Parliamentarian to Keep the $15 Minimum Wage Provision In the Senate Bill?

[What Would Jesus Do?]

And if she can, should she?

This guy thinks she can, and his discussion is persuasive to me. The tl;dr version is that the Senate Parliamentarian's ruling is advice, not law. Unlike, for example, whether VP Pence could discard the Electoral College vote.

The question of whether she should overrule the Senate Parliamentarian is somewhat more interesting.

Congress should use the budget to raise the minimum wage - Roll Call

OPINION — If Republicans resist raising the minimum wage, Senate Democrats should use the budget reconciliation process to pass it with a majority vote.

www.rollcall.com

 

[ConvenientParking]

Even if they were to, what has changed to make them think they won't lose Manchin & Sinema doing it this way? They need all 50.

 

[isufan21]

Can she? Yes. I agree should is the better question. It will set a precedent when the tables turn back to the R's in the future. Is that a precedent they want to start? I think the answer is no.

 

[Huey Grey]

She can. The ruling has no teeth. There is no force of power to compel compliance with the ruling.

And she won't, but I wish she would keep the wage in.

 

[NoleATL]

And if she can, should she?

This guy thinks she can, and his discussion is persuasive to me. The tl;dr version is that the Senate Parliamentarian's ruling is advice, not law. Unlike, for example, whether VP Pence could discard the Electoral College vote.

The question of whether she should overrule the Senate Parliamentarian is somewhat more interesting.

Congress should use the budget to raise the minimum wage - Roll Call

OPINION — If Republicans resist raising the minimum wage, Senate Democrats should use the budget reconciliation process to pass it with a majority vote.

www.rollcall.com

The GOP can't argue with this. They thought Pence could steal the election away from Biden.

 

[Huey Grey]

Even if they were to, what has changed to make them think they won't lose Manchin & Sinema doing it this way? They need all 50.

Neither will kill a $1.9 trillion bill over this. It would take massive balls to pull that trigger. I just don't see that in either Senator.

 

[THE_DEVIL]

Unless specifically disallowed, then yes she should. The rules are what the ruling party says they are. Ain't that right Mitch The Turtle?

 

[Fluffles]

The GOP set a precedent for overturning an election, they should probably sit this one out. VP Harris can do whatever the f*** she wants if it’s within the rules.

 

[SL Hawk Fan]

Once more, dems need to be the adult in the room and respect the parliamentarian’s decision/ruling. It’s the appropriate thing to do. The republicans have indicated willingness to raise the minimum wage; dems should work towards a compromise that gets them to something between $10-$12/hour, immediately, with gradual increments to some higher level ($14-$15) and COLAs thereafter.

 

[dirtypool]

If its in the rules, i wouldn’t blame her for doing it through if they could with how the republicans have played over the past 4-5 years (going back to not giving Garland a hearing for the SC).

personally, i hate when things get tied into bills that aren’t related to the bill.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Even if they were to, what has changed to make them think they won't lose Manchin & Sinema doing it this way? They need all 50.

True enough. Which is why I'd sort of prefer a separate clean bill on raising the MW. Probably wouldn't pass, either, but would make for some interesting political ads for 2018.

 

[THE_DEVIL]

Can she? Yes. I agree should is the better question. It will set a precedent when the tables turn back to the R's in the future. Is that a precedent they want to start? I think the answer is no.

Not directed specifically at you, but over time this line of thinking by the dems has led to the repubs kicking our asses up one side and down the other in governing the last 20+ years. If the dems continue to bow down to the repubs and keep thanking them for kicking us in the head the end result will not be an America of ALL citizens. It will be an America of one party rule.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

She can. The ruling has no teeth. There is no force of power to compel compliance with the ruling.

And she won't, but I wish she would keep the wage in.

Agreed.

When the House and Senate bills get reconciled, the Dems will be in a better position if MW is in there as a bargaining chip. Maybe they can get something good in exchange for dumping it.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Not directed specifically at you, but over time this line of thinking by the dems has led to the repubs kicking our asses up one side and down the other in governing the last 20+ years. If the dems continue to bow down to the repubs and keep thanking them for kicking us in the head the end result will not be an America of ALL citizens. It will be an America of one party rule.

Yeah, but, but ....

My question is this: "What will the Republicans do after they have totally eliminated all taxes on the rich and big corporations?" I mean when they finally get everything they really want, then what happens?

 

[Huey Grey]

Agreed.

When the House and Senate bills get reconciled, the Dems will be in a better position if MW is in there as a bargaining chip. Maybe they can get something good in exchange for dumping it.

Her office has said that she will comply with the ruling. Unless the Dems kill the filibuster, which would be a way more severe assault on decorum, MW stands no chance of passing as a clean bill. That's why I want it to stay in covid.

 

[pjhawk]

Can she? Yes. I agree should is the better question. It will set a precedent when the tables turn back to the R's in the future. Is that a precedent they want to start? I think the answer is no.

OMFG. The precedent has already been set. The Republicans fired the Senate Parliamentarian in 2001 in the same 50-50 situation. It was barely even news.

Democrats are just so freaking lame, they have to get some stones, if they want to win and keep their majorities in 22 they HAVE TO deliver on their agenda, they probably need to also pass a national voter reform bill as well with what Repubs are doing to restrict voting out in the states. But again, Dems need some stones.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Her office has said that she will comply with the ruling. Unless the Dems kill the filibuster, which would be a way more severe assault on decorum, MW stands no chance of passing as a clean bill. That's why I want it to stay in covid.

I agree that it won't pass on it's own. But I think it's a winning move to introduce it and then shame the nay-voters. Including some in the Dem party.

 

[THE_DEVIL]

Yeah, but, but ....

My question is this: "What will the Republicans do after they have totally eliminated all taxes on the rich and big corporations?" I mean when they finally get everything they really want, then what happens?

Total deregulation of all business. The Ayn wing of the repub party is still working'lurking in the shadows.

 

[SL Hawk Fan]

Not directed specifically at you, but over time this line of thinking by the dems has led to the repubs kicking our asses up one side and down the other in governing the last 20+ years. If the dems continue to bow down to the repubs and keep thanking them for kicking us in the head the end result will not be an America of ALL citizens. It will be an America of one party rule.

While I lament with you that this is true, we’ve also learned that there is no depth to which republicans will not sink. That means anytime dems make a push like this, republicans will use that to go even further into the depths of authoritarian rule.

this is not a good path to travel down. As I said in another post, it sucks that it always falls on the dems to use sensible moderation, but republicans will always be the spoiled child bully unwilling to compromise and dems will have to act as the only adult in the room.

 

[Huey Grey]

I agree that it won't pass on it's own. But I think it's a winning move to introduce it and then shame the nay-voters. Including some in the Dem party.

I don't care about shaming. I care about workers getting decent wages. We can get a $15 MW. All the Dems need to do is go for it.

 

[runkpanole]

Even if they were to, what has changed to make them think they won't lose Manchin & Sinema doing it this way? They need all 50.

This.

 

[your_master5]

Not directed specifically at you, but over time this line of thinking by the dems has led to the repubs kicking our asses up one side and down the other in governing the last 20+ years. If the dems continue to bow down to the repubs and keep thanking them for kicking us in the head the end result will not be an America of ALL citizens. It will be an America of one party rule.

When has one party rule happened? Oh right, liberals control an overwhelming amount of the government today (bureaucracy) shown by the 90%+ dem votes coming out of DC every year.

Dems love pushing stupid ideas like a $15 min. wage while we are dealing with an economic disaster created by lockdowns.

 

[THE_DEVIL]

While I lament with you that this is true, we’ve also learned that there is no depth to which republicans will not sink. That means anytime dems make a push like this, republicans will use that to go even further into the depths of authoritarian rule.

this is not a good path to travel down. As I said in another post, it sucks that it always falls on the dems to use sensible moderation, but republicans will always be the spoiled child bully unwilling to compromise and dems will have to act as the only adult in the room.

You are correct, but when is enough, enough?
When it is too late?
They will continue to win.
We as a country were extremely lucky that Trump is a moron and a smarter person was not running the coup attempt. 70+ million people showed us what the goal is for them.

 

[THE_DEVIL]

[QUOTE = "your_master5, post: 8706760, member: 3610"]
When has one party rule happened? Oh right, liberals control an overwhelming amount of the government today (bureaucracy) shown by the 90% + dem votes coming out of DC every year.

Dems love pushing stupid ideas like a $ 15 min. wage while we are dealing with an economic disaster created by lockdowns.
[/ QUOTE]
I did not say it has happened ... yet.
Your second point does not address the issue of the thread. Should the dems employ the same tactics as the repubs have over the last 30 plus years. Its not about winning and losing elections, its about the governing that occurs on a daily basis.

Point 3. The dems have been pushing for a MW increase every year since I have been old enough to follow politics. Good years and bad it is a core tenant of the party. Why haven't the repubs wanted an increase during the "good times" of the repub presidencies?

 

[SL Hawk Fan]

You are correct, but when is enough, enough?
When it is too late?
They will continue to win.
We as a country were extremely lucky that Trump is a moron and a smarter person was not running the coup attempt. 70+ million people showed us what the goal is for them.

It’s a shit show, I agree. No great answers here. The cynic in me thinks that republicans continue tightening the screws until the impoverished believe they literally have nothing left to lose; at that point we’ll have some large scale riots and more than a little bloodshed.

 

[IowaHawkeyeFBnBB4Life]

Jam through $15/minimum wage. I look forward to more kiosks and less local businesses. I can’t wait for the excuses when that happens.

 

[Tom Paris]

Can she? Yes. I agree should is the better question. It will set a precedent when the tables turn back to the R's in the future. Is that a precedent they want to start? I think the answer is no.

You can't worry about Republican retaliation. Do what you need to do. Republicans do it that way. Democrats need to play their game now. Accomplish everything you can on your agenda and the hell with the party who tried to overturn an election. I wouldn't even begin to try and reach out to people knowingly trying to destroy Democracy.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I don't care about shaming. I care about workers getting decent wages. We can get a $15 MW. All the Dems need to do is go for it.

I meant shame the folks in Congress who voted against, not workers.

 

[Huey Grey]

I meant shame the folks in Congress who voted against, not workers.

They won't be shamed, though. They are on record for protecting a president who lead a murderous coup. If that wasn't enough to shame them, a simple No vote on wages will do nothing.

 

[Jan Itor]

Neither will kill a $1.9 trillion bill over this. It would take massive balls to pull that trigger. I just don't see that in either Senator.

At least you didn’t call it a Covid relief bill

 

[Herky T Hawk]

This is not the kind of thing you want to risk being bundled in with other stuff that needs passed. Minimum wage can be its own bill that can be dealt with at any time.

If you force this in when it is possibly unconstitutional, there could be a lot of damage when it gets challenged and the Supreme Court agrees, thus striking it down.

If raising the minimum wage, a thing that hits the private sector much harder than government, is budgetary then pretty much anything before the senate is budgetary. The impeachment trial was budgetary because the feds spent a bunch of money on it and it had to be budgeted for.

 

[Huey Grey]

This is not the kind of thing you want to risk being bundled in with other stuff that needs passed. Minimum wage can be its own bill that can be dealt with at any time.

If you force this in when it is possibly unconstitutional, there could be a lot of damage when it gets challenged and the Supreme Court agrees, thus striking it down.

If raising the minimum wage, a thing that hits the private sector much harder than government, is budgetary then pretty much anything before the senate is budgetary. The impeachment trial was budgetary because the feds spent a bunch of money on it and it had to be budgeted for.

This would be entirely constitutional.

 

[TunzaHawk]

No.

 

[pjhawk]

This is not the kind of thing you want to risk being bundled in with other stuff that needs passed. Minimum wage can be its own bill that can be dealt with at any time.

If you force this in when it is possibly unconstitutional, there could be a lot of damage when it gets challenged and the Supreme Court agrees, thus striking it down.

If raising the minimum wage, a thing that hits the private sector much harder than government, is budgetary then pretty much anything before the senate is budgetary. The impeachment trial was budgetary because the feds spent a bunch of money on it and it had to be budgeted for.

So they've actually got people convinced what's being proposed is unconstitutional?

I live in the dumbest country.

It's freaking Senate rules, they're made and broken on a regular basis.