Can white students/parents integrate successfully into a minority-dominant school?

BelemNole

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Mar 29, 2002
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Not trying to see it, asking if I am seeing it. Does an 8 year old Hispanic girl know why she's making fun of another student's hair color, eye color, etc.? What influence is her parents having on her? I don't have the answer, but reverse racism does occur, even if its misplaced. What's the solution? Tell the little girl, don't dislike my son because he's white, dislike him because his parents make more money than yours (yes that's asinine).

Perhaps I'm what way in real life? Inquisitive? Admittedly not a know-it-all and ask questions? If you're just referring to the thread title, you must be new here. You either know how to bring people in or you don't ;)

In the end, though, I think @BioHawk provided the best answer...something I hadn't considered, but maybe should have.

Blaming reverse racism for your affluenza problems.
 

alaskanseminole

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Oct 20, 2002
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Blaming reverse racism for your affluenza problems.
I don't have a problem, Bel. I have questions. I could eventually have a problem, but unknown at this time.

Additionally, I am financially free to move about the country. However, I am noticing some things at my son's new school and I'm asking very pointed questions. I get the feeling you don't believe it's possible for there to be reverse racism that it MUST be affluenza. I've stated I think that's a bigger culprit for societies view on racism as a whole, but for all you know the little girl's parents blame white people for their lot in life...or they may not. I don't know. You don't know. Heck, people don't like people because of who they voted for.

Do you have any thoughts on whether or not a rich white kid can be successful (academically, socially, etc.) on a campus with 70% disadvantaged students. Yes/No?
 

hydro2.0

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I don’t know the problem or solution here but I’m sure it’s the Jews fault
 

luvmyhawks

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Mar 22, 2005
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I believe in fact and history being taught factually and acknowledging that systematic racism still prevalent to this day. I also agree with what you said as well in doing the right thing individually.

raw
 

BelemNole

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I don't have a problem, Bel. I have questions. I could eventually have a problem, but unknown at this time.

Additionally, I am financially free to move about the country. However, I am noticing some things at my son's new school and I'm asking very pointed questions. I get the feeling you don't believe it's possible for there to be reverse racism that it MUST be affluenza. I've stated I think that's a bigger culprit for societies view on racism as a whole, but for all you know the little girl's parents blame white people for their lot in life...or they may not. I don't know. You don't know. Heck, people don't like people because of who they voted for.

Do you have any thoughts on whether or not a rich white kid can be successful (academically, socially, etc.) on a campus with 70% disadvantaged students. Yes/No?
You started a thread with a race-baiting title because "know how to bring people in or you don't" and now you seem upset that someone thinks you're the problem and not your whiteness.

Some 8 year old teased your kid. They did not call them any obscene names or epithets but now you're wondering if you have to pull your kids from the school with all the poor people and you want us to chime in on whether it was your whiteness? Ok, no. Happy?
 

alaskanseminole

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You started a thread with a race-baiting title because "know how to bring people in or you don't" and now you seem upset that someone thinks you're the problem and not your whiteness.

Some 8 year old teased your kid. They did not call them any obscene names or epithets but now you're wondering if you have to pull your kids from the school with all the poor people and you want us to chime in on whether it was your whiteness? Ok, no. Happy?
Well, I'm not upset for starters...just asking questions. And I never said I was wondering if I needed to pull my son out. I was wondering if integration is even possible due to color and income. QUOTE: "Can we ever have a truly integrated society as long as there are have and have nots? What do I have in common with parents who aren't educated and are living in poverty?"

That said, my wife just had an interesting chat with one of the board members (and on the interview panel) who turns out to be the person who made the white comment about the candidate. She's white with two adopted African American son's. She said her kids (being black) will most likely not feel comfortable with her (a white woman). She said they struggle a lot (I'm not sure what their background is, but likely not good). Sounds like BioHawk was pretty spot on, so kudos to him.

As for the little girl, she's apparently from a home with a mother, grandmother & uncle (no father) who are apparently pretty prejudice and this isn't the first issue they've had like this on campus.
 

HawkeyeGenius

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I have lots of questions, Chis:

- What are your thoughts on reverse racism?
- Is racism a case of "the white man started it"? If so, how do we end it?
- Do you believe white people are racist or racists are racist?
Take it easy! You're asking him tough questions that he cannot or will not answer. It won't allow him to post his one line nonsense.
 
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alaskanseminole

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There's an interesting podcast regarding this issue called Nice White Parents
Link?

Also @BelemNole my wife had a chat with the current superintendent after the last interview spawning her to call me. Sounds like BioHawk (and even you) are more right than I could have seen. They do have many issues managing the income gap issue. Just last week she had to deal with a student stealing snacks from other kids because his family can't afford them. The teachers banded together and created a "snack bin" for kids who need them.

Another mom was in tears because she can't afford sports for her kiddo. I recommended they set up a sports GoFundMe so parents who can, have a place to donate so these children can have access to more things. She was very responsive to that idea and told me she'd discuss it with the board.

I didn't bring up the little racist girl...that's probably a one-off and likely being handled the best it can be. I think my thread title can change again to:

Can financially affluent students/parents integrate successfully into a underprivileged-dominant school?​


If it matters, I'll avoid clickbait titles, I'll just "bump" if a thread sinks to the bottom. :cool:
 
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GarryO37

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Mar 31, 2013
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No, it is not a bad thing to be white because despite things like this, white people still have huge advantages as a group (there are plenty of poor and disadvantaged white people that are often forgotten in everything). However, if this all stems from the comments about a Principle search, there are data based reasons for what they said. First, anytime you are hiring for a position you have a set of qualifications in mind. It gets dicey when you start talking about the racial stuff but there are mountains of evidence showing that minority students perform better with minority teachers. Minority teachers are far more likely to want to work at a school with minority administrators. If you have a high population of black or hispanic students, then as a board, you want to hire someone that is going to be able to recruit faculty that will best address the needs of the student population. The reasons for that are many, but it just might be as simple as who the kids and faculty trust the most. Clearly you live in an area with a heavy...um, well, calling a minority a majority is kind of an oxymoron, but you get the point.

So, in a school with a large black or hispanic population, it would be following that data. Of course, this also opens up a whole other angle that would not be considered ok (well wouldn't white administrators be better for majority white schools?) and I don't have the answers for those nor am I trying to convince anyone that what they are doing is acceptable. I'm just saying it isn't out of left field and there is data to support it. That doesn't necessarily make it ok though. I'm not sure what I actually think about the issue other than I'm glad I'm not someone who has to make that kind of decision.

Thank you for the perspective. The reason it’s not ok is that it’s a form of self segregation imo. Previous generations of minorities fought so hard to desegregate and it’s frustrating that the data kind of points to the reverse happening.

There isn’t really anything whites can do about it either other than encouraging against it. In today’s environment, that’s just the reality of the situation. The change has to come from within those communities because having an outside perspective does carry value (especially when things aren’t working) despite what a lot of people think.
 
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BioHawk

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Thank you for the perspective. The reason it’s not ok is that it’s a form of self segregation imo. Previous generations of minorities fought so hard to desegregate and it’s frustrating that the data kind of points to the reverse happening.

There isn’t really anything whites can do about it either other than encouraging against it. In today’s environment, that’s just the reality of the situation. The change has to come from within those communities because having an outside perspective does carry value (especially when things aren’t working) despite what a lot of people think.
Your point isn't wrong, it's just whether you place a higher value on what the data shows or the principle of integration. As I said, I'm glad I don't have to make that decision.
 

nolesincebirth

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Apr 15, 2003
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I didn’t read the thread but NPR / Serial did a podcast on this exact issue. It was a decent series; no S-Town but not bad.

 

GarryO37

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Your point isn't wrong, it's just whether you place a higher value on what the data shows or the principle of integration. As I said, I'm glad I don't have to make that decision.

Personally, I would probably place a higher value on integration and start looking into why this is happening. Because if the end goal is for people of all races is to live in harmony, self segregation won’t help and goes against that.

I don’t think that very many would disagree that today’s political climate is one of the driving forces. If these kids are constantly hearing or it’s implied at home, on tv and everywhere they turn that white people can’t be trusted, then the distrust is going to begin to manifest where it currently is, schools. It starts with something as simple as what race they prefer their teacher to be. We’ve already seen how that mentality has played itself out in the past.

If a teacher is qualified to educate a child, then it doesn’t matter what race they are. I know that’s kind of a “duh” but it appears we need to start telling children and families this. As an adult, you have to be able to work with people of all races, religions, genders and sexual orientation if you want a successful career. It’s in everyone’s best interest and you’re only limiting yourself on the amount of success you will have in life.
 

General Tso

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I firmly believe that a little bit of systemic racism goes away with each passing generation. I also believe that any white person who says they've "worked for everything they have" is full of BS.
 

alaskanseminole

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Oct 20, 2002
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I firmly believe that a little bit of systemic racism goes away with each passing generation.
I agree.

I also believe that any white person who says they've "worked for everything they have" is full of BS.
How so? I'm the son of a bi-polar and schizophrenic father who lost his job every 5-7 years due to a manic episode while my mom who was only a church secretary tried to hold everything together while he was in the mental hospital recovering, only to get out, find new work and spend the next several years digging us out of debt. Wash, rinse, repeat. He's 74 (no pics) and still going through this mess.

I've been working since I was 14 and held 2-3 jobs simultaneously until I made E-5 in the Air Force and finally was able to quit the 2nd job at the jewelry store in the Anchorage mall. Trying to reflect hard to see where I was handed something because of my whiteness.

Let me guess, that time the cop let me off for speeding instead of shooting me was my sliding door moment that put me on the successful path I'm on today?
 
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Breastman

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Feb 4, 2003
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You really need to call in to Howard Stern and ask for his advice after growing up in Roosevelt, Long Island.

Seriously, I'm white and went to a school that was about 90% African-American, 5% immigrant. My folks were lib hippies. It actually gave me a perspective on life that I never would have had otherwise. There were tough moments being such a minority but I appreciate the experience now.

One interesting thing that happened, I'm in my late-40's and have a really hard time connecting with conservative, white culture. Just seems very foreign to me. I married a black woman who, interestingly enough, was the only black girl at her school. We connected on that level for sure. My 81-year old father-in-law lives with us. I think I see the world in more of an 'outside looking in' perspective.

My brother actually ended up being 'normal'. All of his friends are pretty much white I think due his hobbies and interests. He's actually quite conservative.

Don't let your guilt get in the way. Give this more time. I think you'll be happy you did.
 

fredjr82

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- My no-pics wife is on the interview panel for a new Principal search. Today, she was told one of the primary concerns for the Principal they are interviewing today is that "She's white".

Couple questions. Was it the whole board who voiced their concern? A few members? Just one person? Are they still going to interview the candidate? What does your son getting teased have any relevancy in your question?
 

fredjr82

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I’m a white man. I do pretty well. That’s good enough for me.

You might be being facetious, but unfortunately your comment is pretty true in reality.

I volunteered a couple of hours of my time yesterday to local charity before work. My step always feels a little lighter after giving back to the community.

I'm certainly thankful for all we have.
 

thewop

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Jun 27, 2002
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Will my family be outcasts because A. skin color, B. income level, C. education, D. not at all
Ranked order: B, A, probably not C unless your grammar is significantly better (but I think that's actually considered race/privilege now). Not D.

If you lived in the same neighborhood, shopped at the same stores and dealt with the same issues as the locals, this situation would look a lot different. As is, your an outsider.

The principal candidate, not knowing anything about your wife but xommenting that a concern she had was that your wife is white...well that's just racism. The interview panel is lucky she said it. Imagine if she thought and believed it and they'd hired her...what a role model...(I assume they sent her packing).

The moment you start donating, you're on the radar, and now you're "different."

Donations are a double edged sword. Great for the beneficiaries, but when done in a way that isn't completely anonymous, it also signals to anyone else who knows that you have money to burn.

It doesn't mean your daughter can't have great friendships and walk away with many fantastic life lessons. Sounds like she's old enough to have some thoughts, how does she feel?
 

alaskanseminole

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Couple questions. Was it the whole board who voiced their concern? A few members? Just one person? Are they still going to interview the candidate? What does your son getting teased have any relevancy in your question?
I answered most of those questions in post #51. Yes, they did interview the candidate and of the five-member panel, 3 liked her, 2 did not; including the one who had concerns of her being white.

The relevancy for my son was also answered in post #51. Turns out the child comes from a prejudice family, but I also stated I don't think that's the norm, but there is at least going to be a huge cultural difference which could be a hinderance at building relationships with other families--income gap and culture. So my question really wasn't about reverse racism (although that does exist), it was literally can a white student/family truly integrate. My son is the only blond hair, blue eye kid in the entire 3rd grade. If not, why? Race, income, combo, not an issue?

It's an interesting situation being a financially secure white family in a predominantly low-income Hispanic school. I honestly didn't even think about it when we toured the school. Our concern was the commute. In post #55 I shared my conversation with the founder/superintendent who called me after the final interview.

What I didn't mention in post #55 is we both (me and the Superintendent) do have similar experiences in being outsiders. We both went to private schools growing up, BUT we weren't their because we had money. She was on scholarship and an outsider and my parents sacrificed a lot and accrued a lot of debt to keep me there (until high school--when they could no longer afford it) during times my father was in a mental hospital. In the 80s, brand names were very important, so the kids with Reboks and Members Only jackets would make fun of kids with the knock-offs from Payless. First world problems for sure, but still our reality as kids.

Similar situations happen at this school which is why there is a dress code. Kids can't come to school wearing shirts with Abercrombie printed across the front for all the reasons I've mentioned before.
 
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alaskanseminole

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Ranked order: B, A, probably not C unless your grammar is significantly better (but I think that's actually considered race/privilege now). Not D.
I guess grammar is subjective to culture also (and education), right? We had a new parent orientation and sat on the same row as a dad who looked to be in his early 20s with face tattoos and the stereotypical clothing ensemble to boot. He didn't say much, but when he spoke it wasn't always easy to understand what he said.


If you lived in the same neighborhood, shopped at the same stores and dealt with the same issues as the locals, this situation would look a lot different. As is, your an outsider.
Absolutely it would. However, I don't know what I would have in common with the man I mentioned above; not because of his race, but because of his life experiences (and age). Our nextdoor neighbors are Hispanic and we are great friends. --Income level equality + common interests.

The principal candidate, not knowing anything about your wife but commenting that a concern she had was that your wife is white...well that's just racism. The interview panel is lucky she said it. Imagine if she thought and believed it and they'd hired her...what a role model...(I assume they sent her packing).
Not sure I fully understand this one, but it was a white woman (with black children) who made the comment about the white candidate. They did interview her with a 3/2 split (in favor of) and the white woman wound up still not liking the white candidate.

The moment you start donating, you're on the radar, and now you're "different."

Donations are a double edged sword. Great for the beneficiaries, but when done in a way that isn't completely anonymous, it also signals to anyone else who knows that you have money to burn.
I absolutely agree. So far, we've been providing support through the teachers and staff. Buying supplies, donating for fundraisers, etc.

It doesn't mean your daughter can't have great friendships and walk away with many fantastic life lessons. Sounds like she's old enough to have some thoughts, how does she feel?
It's actually our son. He loves his teachers, but is struggling to connect with other kids and that's been a combination of:

- The little girl teasing him about his hair color, eye color, etc.
- A little boy who said, "your soccer team sucks, karate sucks, & your sensei sucks" (and other situations like this).

I know why the first one happened, but I think the second one happened because my son is proud of his involvement in those activities and is used to sharing them with his friends who are engaged in the same activities. Heck, half his classmates (from his previous school) are at the same dojo. But these kids can't afford it, so they're likely jealous and that's how they're reacting--like a normal kid would.

Basically, our son is finally getting the enrichment he desperately needed from teachers and staff, but struggling to make friends. Not surprisingly, his one close friend is white. "Dad, he's really the only kid who's nice to me."
 
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alaskanseminole

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Oct 20, 2002
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OP I recommend you listen to/read Naomi Klein. Not directly related to this, but still related.
Thanks, Rudy. I'll check it out. I also want to listen to the 2x recommended pod cast about "Nice White Family" ...or something to that effect.