Mostly agree with this, but barring injuries, I think most experts will expect a decent uptick to a middle of the B1G team and above .500 overall record. Just having more perimeter players available should help.
Carton top 3
- Thread starter Hawki45
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And I'm cautiously optimistic about that as well. I can see them picking up another 4-5 wins over last year. Still likely under .500 in conference and not in the NCAA field. So while better than last season, 18-19 wins isn't terribly impressive.
I have never met Bob but have gotten to know a lot about him on this board during DJ's recruitment. I respect the way he handled the situation.
Fran is the poster boy for seeing what you want to. Just listen to the stuff that he says.
Three points
1. As soon as DJs accolades, notoriety and rankings hit a certain level our odds of getting a commit really dropped especially after a short period of time where he could have verbal’d to us at any point. If he had wanted to be Hawk there was no reason to hold off. With every bit of prestige he earned after that initial burst our % continued to drop measurably to the point we had no realistic chance. No surprise by his decision and glad he did it now and honestly wish it had been a little earlier. He was letting us down nicely being a in-state school and Fran really making an effort.
2. If he’s truly a top 20-25 player and top 3-4 guard in the nation he will be a 1 and done. If that happens what would we really gain by getting 1 season? The odds of getting another player in a series of recruits like him are really slim. If he’s not a 1 and done then how good is he really and could he really carry our program? Would he be viewed as a ‘bust’ after a period of time because of where the expectation level would be to start? That is a lot of pressure.
3. It’s clear we have a systemic issue that needs much more attention than just a coaching change, Since the Roy, BJ, Eddy days ended there has been very few high level recruits if any. Some nice seasons but 1 sweet sixteen maybe and a couple of very good seasons for us over almost 30 years and 4 coaches. We have to do more, get university backing and spend more on our 2 major sports. That’s investing to the point we out do rivals instead of just doing enough and hoping for a different result. The change must start within and be significant to make up for our inherent deficiencies. Starts in b-ball with a new 10k arena in a good location for students to get the ball rolling. Something new and shiny to show vision.
1. As soon as DJs accolades, notoriety and rankings hit a certain level our odds of getting a commit really dropped especially after a short period of time where he could have verbal’d to us at any point. If he had wanted to be Hawk there was no reason to hold off. With every bit of prestige he earned after that initial burst our % continued to drop measurably to the point we had no realistic chance. No surprise by his decision and glad he did it now and honestly wish it had been a little earlier. He was letting us down nicely being a in-state school and Fran really making an effort.
2. If he’s truly a top 20-25 player and top 3-4 guard in the nation he will be a 1 and done. If that happens what would we really gain by getting 1 season? The odds of getting another player in a series of recruits like him are really slim. If he’s not a 1 and done then how good is he really and could he really carry our program? Would he be viewed as a ‘bust’ after a period of time because of where the expectation level would be to start? That is a lot of pressure.
3. It’s clear we have a systemic issue that needs much more attention than just a coaching change, Since the Roy, BJ, Eddy days ended there has been very few high level recruits if any. Some nice seasons but 1 sweet sixteen maybe and a couple of very good seasons for us over almost 30 years and 4 coaches. We have to do more, get university backing and spend more on our 2 major sports. That’s investing to the point we out do rivals instead of just doing enough and hoping for a different result. The change must start within and be significant to make up for our inherent deficiencies. Starts in b-ball with a new 10k arena in a good location for students to get the ball rolling. Something new and shiny to show vision.
Yeah sorry but getting a new arena is down on the list of things Iowa needs to change to become a national title contender.
That ranks on my list right next to getting better Iowa fans. (But hey if some of you think we need better fans as much as we need a new arena, in a serious way, then more power to you...........)
Deal with it.
Iowa had slim / no chance to land Carton period. With that being said, Fran made it very easy for him to not consider Iowa based on the circus act we witnessed last year. Fran just got clowned by two programs with new coaches who should be further behind Iowa in the rebuilding process, but in reality, are light years ahead. It comes down to being relevant and Iowa basketball isn't. Better for the upcoming season might mean a bubble NIT team. The teams Carton is considering are all legit Sweet 16 or better right now.
Where’s our IU friends?
It’ll be someone to boo facetiously for the next 4 years. OSU just lost a one and done to the 48th pick in the NBA Draft, returns 6 dudes and a coach that has one year and about as many tourney bids as Fran has at Iowa.
I’ve moved on pretty quickly and it’s actually not been as big of a deal to me. The mild interest I will have is to see what kind of player he will be and how it works out. Is he a 4 year guy despite the high ranking? Do they recruit over the top of him at some point? How much love and loyalty do they show him if he struggles?
Bates Diop played 3 years at OSU. He sat out on the third year due to injury. Was not a one and done.
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I thought Michigan's dermatology program was stronger than Ohio State's?
Ohio State was pretty much in the lead for several months...Holtmann did a good job & had alot to offer from a roster standpoint.
While I agree they have the easiest route to a guaranteed starting spot as a freshman, I’ve seen no suggestion from even OSU folks that they have been in the lead for months. They didn’t have a single crystal ball on TOS until this week (I think).
This week? Try this afternoon. All of the Buckeye "predictions" came about an hour before the announcement, when he'd already made his decision. The Crystal Ball stuff is BS.
sorry but I KNOW THEY were...ddint need a crytsal ball and have discussed in private conversation dozens of times exactly that. Sorry I cannot say how because I have been committed to keeping the Carton recruitment process out of the internet world. Holtmann visited the morning of our game against OhioState and the relationship commenced. While Indiana & Michigan certainly made some impression (as Iowa did) Ohio State was in great shape all along.
Im not going to argue with you..the OhioState coaches did a great job..if they caught U off guard...thats' on you.
Did they know he was going to commit today? I have no idea...what I said was they were the leader.
I just spoke to someone who as close as one can get..the leader won the day.
dont agree with Legend on most things..but his post on this thread last sunday is accurate.
so U can LOL all u want...on this one..you are indeed clueless.
You can LOL all you want, but Bob is the best sourced person on this topic on all of Rivals.
I should say & maybe this will allow us to move on...my comments & perspective come from the recruits' side not the OhioState coaches. It really doesnt matter to me if they were surprised they got a commitment. And I dont know if they thought they were the leader (or became such). If Holtmann recruits others the way he did with DJ...look out..this guy could very well have OhioState on a fast track.
I don't know where you gather that from. I think it's pretty clear he is saying he is personally connected to the Carton family, or knows someone who is, and was privy to the recruiting of Carton throughout.
I think most Iowa fans assumed he was going to Michigan, too, but apparently those in the know knew better. Regardless, it's time for everyone to move on.
More good news for Michigan fans. Now they have being dominated by OSU in basketball to look forward to in addition to football.
I really don't want to hear about Holtmann being a miracle worker at OSU. The team had a lot of talent when he arrived. Bates-Diop was a 5 star and their roster had numerous 4 star players, plus a lot of senior leadership. Matta was a very good recruiter, so the cupboard wasn't bare.
Glad the Carton circus is over as far as Iowa is concerned. OSU = arrogance so good riddance to him.
Glad the Carton circus is over as far as Iowa is concerned. OSU = arrogance so good riddance to him.
Here’s a good article with a chronicle of what happened. After last year’s debacle, I can’t blame the kid for running away from the Hawks. I still think the nucleus for a good team is present at Iowa. The season’s outcome, in terms of wins and losses, will depend on Fran’s management of the team, not on the players. Fran’s on the court antics have made the Hawks an unpopular team on the national stage, worse yet, he wears out our own players, emotionally, physically and mentally. In all the years he has been at Iowa, I don’t remember a single player stepping up as the team leader, that inspirational figure who pushes others to give all they got in crucial moments. Fran’s inability to build leaders, and his proclivity to exhaust the team culminate in painfully long losing streaks, and I wonder, if they also impacted Carlton’s decision.
As a fan who’s been cheering the Hawks for over four decades, I’m still hopeful about the next two years. After that I’ll throw the towel in on Fran.
https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2018/07/5-star_point_guard_dj_carton_c.html
what do you think are the factors in why Iowa was not his final choice? does he not have faith that Fran can win enough, for example? did he want to get away from home? OSU has better facilities? I guess I am asking what boxes recruits are not checking off when they consider Iowa.
I, for the most part moved on several weeks ago but, too, assumed Ann Arbor was DJ's destination. I have had no inside info since last November but it seems plain to me that OSU's major selling point was early playing time.
what the 247's of the recruiting world dont have access to is the multiple conversations between school & recruit. at one point I remember Kakert mentioned something to the affect that someone close has said Iowa was feeling good about Carton...dont know where that came from (and of course one would have to define feeling good)....DJ is such a respectful young man he probably made alot of schools feeling good.
The relationship with OhioState really got going on Feb 10th ..when holtmann found his way to bettendorf for an open gym despite a 5:00 tip in Iowa City..that did leave an impression.
Fran did absolutely nothing wrong in recruiting Carton.... it is fair to say 'no one' recruited him harder than Fran & Iowa.
IF DJ had/has any thoughts about his faith in the future of Iowa basketball ..he would not say so..not his DNA ... so I cant speak to that.
In the end.. OhioState was the best fit for him. Yes the roster next fall (2019) was a factor..Iowa returns (as of now) every single so-called PG & even wing player with the exception of Nicholas Baer...thats Bohannon, McCaffery, Moss, Dailey, JoeW, Frederick..+ P McCaffery...and last year Fran started Nunge in a number of games along side Cook & Garza...'one less guard'...Ohio State is pretty committed to more of a '3' guard lineup.
...the biggest factor was Holtmann said he needed a Point Guard....he picked DJ as their top target & stayed the course throughout the process...not every school was willing to stay the course. I'm as disappointed as anyone that DJ wont be playing at Iowa but it wasnt what Iowa didnt do...it was more about what OhioState offers.
sometimes it is timing,..would have been interesting to see what would have happen if DJ was a year younger and the previously mentioned seniors were gone...Fran has alot to sell to class of 2020 recruits...
Carton going to OSU over Michigan actually makes me feel better for some reason. I can’t exactly pinpoint it, but I think it’s my mentality that anyone who goes to OSU is probably inclined to make bad decisions. I am just not a proponent of the institution or fan base so a player who choose that setting was likely never going to be an IOWA guy. Given his destination in the B1G, I cannot wish him the best, but his choice has allowed me to move on more easily. Hoping IOWA can stack up the talent needed to beat him with consistency!
As I said before it will be interesting to see what happens. A true 5 star kid should be a 1 and done player. If DJ is there more than one season I am not sure what that means. He chose OSU partially because of roster and ability to get on the floor right away as is being said / implied in this thread.
We know OSU is about winning and they did not let go of Matta and eventually bring in Holtmann with a sizable contract to play games. Holtmann will be under pressure every year. He will continue to recruit as many players as it takes to win and regardless of who is already on the roster. If DJ struggles year 1 and has to return to Columbus we will see how much ‘loyalty’ and ‘patience’ there is. If DJ lives up to the hype then he’s gone in a year anyway.
We know OSU is about winning and they did not let go of Matta and eventually bring in Holtmann with a sizable contract to play games. Holtmann will be under pressure every year. He will continue to recruit as many players as it takes to win and regardless of who is already on the roster. If DJ struggles year 1 and has to return to Columbus we will see how much ‘loyalty’ and ‘patience’ there is. If DJ lives up to the hype then he’s gone in a year anyway.
That's interesting you feel that way. I think it does suck that he's going to a B1G school, but I'm not sure why you would feel any better or worse had he chosen Michigan or Indiana (although admittedly given the amount of douchebag Indiana fans who showed up here I was kinda glad it wasn't the Hoosiers).
I think hawkeye-i bob has explained things pretty well. The reality is every state has seen highly rated kids go to other schools. If I recall, Chris Kingsbury was from Ohio and he chose Iowa despite being a McD's AA. I was a teenager at the time so I don't have any idea who offered Kingsbury out of high school and who didn't, but the greater point is there are a variety of factors in why a kid chooses a school. Sometimes it's just as simple as a kid making a greater connection with a certain coach than others. Obviously, DJ was really impressed by Ohio State's coach. Nothing wrong with it.
