Carver

hexumhawk

HR Legend
Sep 24, 2003
13,314
8,515
113
44
North Liberty
Post 5,793 on how bad Carver is.

It is obvious at this point that the UI does not value a home court advantage for basketball as they refuse to address the issues at Carver. Students in a terrible spot for starters. Bad design for volume.
UI needs to really consider replacing this building with a new facility on the same site or a new facility in a different location.
 

HawkLogic

HR Legend
Feb 20, 2011
13,489
9,347
113
Post 5,793 on how bad Carver is.

It is obvious at this point that the UI does not value a home court advantage for basketball as they refuse to address the issues at Carver. Students in a terrible spot for starters. Bad design for volume.
UI needs to really consider replacing this building with a new facility on the same site or a new facility in a different tlocation.

The AD can remodel and make the place a lot noisier and thus better home court advantage. Easy fix would enclosing the top concessions/lobby to reflect sound back towards the court. Cheap student tickets, and some means to create noise like people did in old fieldhouse with metal bleachers.


When you have an AD that is too effing stupid that A) he bothers to fire a woman coach in a money losing sport of no consequence B) Can't even do that properly by documenting chit. C) manages to lose $2 million plus lawyer fees......then how do you expects such an idiot to be able to advance the revenue generating programs?
 

TNHAWK79

HR All-State
Jul 28, 2012
684
386
63
This was an issue when I worked there. I tried to create new marketing, crowd involvement and out of the box thinking. The administration did not approve. They literally use the same marketing plans every year from 1991. They tweak a few things but everything is the same. It’s truly an act of Congress, I stopped trying.
 

Ronman

HR Heisman
Jan 4, 2004
9,372
7,776
113
Planet Iowa
I recently watched a Penn St. home game. That place used to be a morgue. That particular night, it was a pretty raucous environment. That would push Carver to the least exciting game night experience. Pretty sad really, considering some of great players that have passed through here and the exciting brand of ball that we play.
 

intrepodor

All-Conference
Nov 2, 2010
383
363
63
The AD can remodel and make the place a lot noisier and thus better home court advantage. Easy fix would enclosing the top concessions/lobby to reflect sound back towards the court. Cheap student tickets, and some means to create noise like people did in old fieldhouse with metal bleachers.


When you have an AD that is too effing stupid that A) he bothers to fire a woman coach in a money losing sport of no consequence B) Can't even do that properly by documenting chit. C) manages to lose $2 million plus lawyer fees......then how do you expects such an idiot to be able to advance the revenue generating programs?
There is that
 
  • Haha
Reactions: doughuddl2

SDHawkDoc

HR Heisman
Jan 27, 2013
8,557
8,606
113
As a place to watch a basketball game, I prefer CHA to many others I've been in. Good views from multiple angles. Comfortable seating.
As a home venue for b-ball, it's been a non-factor for a while now.
I agree with above that it has been a great environment for wrestling. I think that's the strongest evidence that it's less about the architecture than it is the involvement of the fans in attendance.
 

blhawk

HR All-American
Oct 30, 2001
4,864
5,991
113
The AD can remodel and make the place a lot noisier and thus better home court advantage. Easy fix would enclosing the top concessions/lobby to reflect sound back towards the court. Cheap student tickets, and some means to create noise like people did in old fieldhouse with metal bleachers.


When you have an AD that is too effing stupid that A) he bothers to fire a woman coach in a money losing sport of no consequence B) Can't even do that properly by documenting chit. C) manages to lose $2 million plus lawyer fees......then how do you expects such an idiot to be able to advance the revenue generating programs?
I'm not a Barta fan but I do think the north end zone was a grand slam. He deserves credit there. I wish he'd put a similar effort into carver now. Students should get very cheap tix, enclose the top and make a barrier to concourse, dump the one size fits all pricing to help sell out top and corners would be where I'd start. I'd say move students but after 25 years of people wanting it I give up. It's the new water tower
 

IamHawkeye

HR Legend
Oct 1, 2001
12,966
2,317
113
Post 5,793 on how bad Carver is.

It is obvious at this point that the UI does not value a home court advantage for basketball as they refuse to address the issues at Carver. Students in a terrible spot for starters. Bad design for volume.
UI needs to really consider replacing this building with a new facility on the same site or a new facility in a different location.
Lute's fault.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WBBearsFollower

blhawk

HR All-American
Oct 30, 2001
4,864
5,991
113
Carver doesn’t have any problems when wrestling is in there…
Carver is just as loud for the big basketball games when the team gives them a reason and despite having like 20 events vs around 6 and tickets being a lot more than $85 a season, basketball still averaged more than wrestling pre pandemic.

I'm an Iowa wrestling fan too and I get that hating on basketball is just what many wrestlers/fans do but it gets old. Basketball actually does make money to help make things possible for programs like wrestling that don't. And there's just waaaaay more competition to be good
 

wjr1818

Team MVP
Gold Member
Oct 20, 2020
201
264
63
Carver doesn’t have any problems when wrestling is in there…
While I agree that wrestling doesn't have problems with getting crowds, I believe that is a different type of crowd that values seeing the sport in person. With Iowa being one of the top wrestling states in the country, many high schoolers and families go watch the Hawks compete in person.

Something drastic needs to change at Carver. Either a complete re-model and make the students a priority, or consider a new arena more accessible to fans/students that resembles arenas that have students near the court but won't piss off the gray hairs. Players want to go play in energetic game atmosphere arenas, and while Fran has done well with the talent he has recruited, I believe this is affecting our ability to get top 50-100 players outside of Iowa.
 

CeMar_Clone

HR Legend
Jul 20, 2001
14,477
2,327
113
While I agree that wrestling doesn't have problems with getting crowds, I believe that is a different type of crowd that values seeing the sport in person. With Iowa being one of the top wrestling states in the country, many high schoolers and families go watch the Hawks compete in person.

Something drastic needs to change at Carver. Either a complete re-model and make the students a priority, or consider a new arena more accessible to fans/students that resembles arenas that have students near the court but won't piss off the gray hairs. Players want to go play in energetic game atmosphere arenas, and while Fran has done well with the talent he has recruited, I believe this is affecting our ability to get top 50-100 players outside of Iowa.
Iowa has 1800 student tickets for the year, and they cost $75. ISU charges students $249 for a combined football/mens BB ticket, and then only the first 2500 to show up for the game actually get in. For the Iowa game, they were lining up 24 hours before tip (in the past they have camped out for days on big games). Seems like the Iowa ticket price is already a pretty good deal.
 
Sep 19, 2013
22
21
3
With the wrestling addition, a new facility is out of the question. There's empty space behind the basket. The student section should go right to the edge of the court.
 

Ronman

HR Heisman
Jan 4, 2004
9,372
7,776
113
Planet Iowa
The students/premium seating issue has become similar to the chicken/egg. Do you set aside great sideline seats for the few students that actually attend or do you wait until the students start showing up en masse before you change their seats?
 
  • Like
Reactions: iahawks10

hexumhawk

HR Legend
Sep 24, 2003
13,314
8,515
113
44
North Liberty
I think the easy changes would be:
1) Suites around the top concourse and building something to block the view and hold noise from the concourse.
2) Move the students to ring the court

Harder changes:
1) Reconstruct the existing building
2) New arena
 

FWIW4922463

HR All-State
Apr 1, 2021
826
2,368
93
This was an issue when I worked there. I tried to create new marketing, crowd involvement and out of the box thinking. The administration did not approve. They literally use the same marketing plans every year from 1991. They tweak a few things but everything is the same. It’s truly an act of Congress, I stopped trying.
I believe you. It's pretty obvious. But the funny thing is, it sounds a lot like what someone might say about the football team's "offense" under KF. Hey, we're just Iowa. LOL
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Pancakes32

FWIW4922463

HR All-State
Apr 1, 2021
826
2,368
93
They don't want to piss off the people with good seats by moving them to give the students those seats. That's exactly what should happen, though.
Maybe Iowa should ask Michigan State how they manage it then. And Illinois. And plenty of other places. Somehow OTHER schools get the kids around the floor where they belong, but not freakin' Iowa. Can't be done. What a crock.
 

FWIW4922463

HR All-State
Apr 1, 2021
826
2,368
93
Players want to go play in energetic game atmosphere arenas, and while Fran has done well with the talent he has recruited, I believe this is affecting our ability to get top 50-100 players outside of Iowa.
Anyone who doubts your point should think again. In football, the 5-star safety Xavier Nwankpa specifically said the game-day atmosphere at the PSU-Iowa game this fall was one of the key factors in him choosing IOWA over such places as Notre Dame and Ohio State.

I admit it: I attended games at the old Field House, so I know the difference. Yes, rowdy crowds can make even Carver a great home court advantage, but such crowds have been few and far between the last 20 years. Most of the time, Iowa basketball audiences look and sound quieter than concert crowds at Hancher. They'd make any church proud.

But as a basketball venue, Carver is built to fail, and it usually does. When they were in the preliminary stages of designing the facility to replace the Field House, many of us suggested they use the Field House and Kinnick as models. Get the fans as close to court as possible. Build up, not out. Build a rectangle, not a circle. Essentially, build a modern version of the Field House without the pillars. That would have made a fantastic basketball facility. But no, they settled on a design that was pretty much the opposite of everything you want in a great basketball facility. And here we are. But as others have noted, Iowa could remodel it and address most issues or, better yet, build a new one in a more central location. But hey, we're just Iowa . . .
 

nck24

HR All-American
Dec 22, 2002
4,559
510
113
I think the easy changes would be:
1) Suites around the top concourse and building something to block the view and hold noise from the concourse.
2) Move the students to ring the court

Harder changes:
1) Reconstruct the existing building
2) New arena
I like the idea of suites at the top. One side could also be a legit press box and open up the current press area to fans. I would think that lowering the floor level would allow for more courtside seating for students, and put the floor level seating closer to the edge of the court. It would also, unfortunately, make the floor farther from the top, which would make it even more difficult for the blue hairs. I'm not sure how you might go about making lower level exits.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hexumhawk

hooper56

HR Legend
Gold Member
Oct 1, 2001
29,744
11,536
113
Most of the people complaining about Carver do not attend games regularly and few have season tickets. When it is a big game, the place is rocking and the noise level courtside is deafening. It is built to direct the sound down to court level, it is not so loud at the top.

Also I would wager most of the bitchers contributed not one dime to the original Arena campaign or the more recent remodeling project. So they can thank themselves if the facility is not up to their standards.

Now the marketing of the arena and the games is a different story. It is pathetic, and nothing seems to ever change there. Even the cheerleaders are lousy at getting cheers going. The best thing we have going is the Pep band. Not only do they play music (when allowed) but they do organized cheers and they heckle the opposing players.
 

longliveCS40

HR Legend
Oct 25, 2002
13,826
12,037
113
Most of the people complaining about Carver do not attend games regularly and few have season tickets. When it is a big game, the place is rocking and the noise level courtside is deafening. It is built to direct the sound down to court level, it is not so loud at the top.

Also I would wager most of the bitchers contributed not one dime to the original Arena campaign or the more recent remodeling project. So they can thank themselves if the facility is not up to their standards.

Now the marketing of the arena and the games is a different story. It is pathetic, and nothing seems to ever change there. Even the cheerleaders are lousy at getting cheers going. The best thing we have going is the Pep band. Not only do they play music (when allowed) but they do organized cheers and they heckle the opposing players.
The Illinois game, opening game of the Big Ten season, was a damn morgue. I could hear Illinois fans yelling over Iowa fans half the time. It never got loud even when it was a closely contested game.

The students are in a bad spot way too far away from the action.
 

Hawk_4shur

HR Legend
Jan 2, 2009
14,943
19,547
113
I'm no fan of Carver, but it's silly to keep blaming the building for Iowa basketball attendance and noise.

I had season football tickets for 40 years starting as a freshman at Iowa when they were 0-11. I had season basketball tickets when I was in school and for 2 years after that. It just simply not enough fun to justify the cost, late night games, weather, etc., and Lute Olsen was the coach. Plus, almost every game has been on TV for decades.

Iowa Football is "the thing to do" - tailgating, fall weather, etc. Iowa Basketball is not.

It's not the building's fault.
 

hooper56

HR Legend
Gold Member
Oct 1, 2001
29,744
11,536
113
The Illinois game, opening game of the Big Ten season, was a damn morgue. I could hear Illinois fans yelling over Iowa fans half the time. It never got loud even when it was a closely contested game.

The students are in a bad spot way too far away from the action.
The students have at least 5 sections of front row seating.
 

Franisdaman

HR King
Nov 3, 2012
54,963
60,946
113
Heaven, Iowa
Post 5,793 on how bad Carver is.

It is obvious at this point that the UI does not value a home court advantage for basketball as they refuse to address the issues at Carver. Students in a terrible spot for starters. Bad design for volume.
UI needs to really consider replacing this building with a new facility on the same site or a new facility in a different location.


The thread linked at the end of this post is from January, 2019. It covers all of your concerns.

As was discussed in that thread in 2019:

* Carver is not badly designed; it gets plenty loud if you have fans that are interested in making some noise. Iowa wrestling fans laugh at the basketball fans who say Carver does not get loud.

* Students don't show up; why would you want to put them in prime seating locations?

* It was stated in 2019 and I will state it again. It's pretty clear we have a fan issue and not an arena issue.

That thread:

 

ObeseMuffins

HR MVP
Jan 7, 2007
1,293
1,967
113
The Illinois game, opening game of the Big Ten season, was a damn morgue. I could hear Illinois fans yelling over Iowa fans half the time. It never got loud even when it was a closely contested game.

The students are in a bad spot way too far away from the action.

True. But I thought 2019-2020 home games were a raucous, especially that home game against Illinois.
 

Mohawkeye

HR Legend
Gold Member
Jun 13, 2002
17,723
6,880
113
I'm no fan of Carver, but it's silly to keep blaming the building for Iowa basketball attendance and noise.

I had season football tickets for 40 years starting as a freshman at Iowa when they were 0-11. I had season basketball tickets when I was in school and for 2 years after that. It just simply not enough fun to justify the cost, late night games, weather, etc., and Lute Olsen was the coach. Plus, almost every game has been on TV for decades.

Iowa Football is "the thing to do" - tailgating, fall weather, etc. Iowa Basketball is not.

It's not the building's fault.
Take out the first 10-15 rows up top with suites and close it in
Good idea on suites. I think they should also address the outside. If we can’t build an arena downtown, then build a hotel and entertainment district next to Carver. Make it a destination like they did with Pinnacle arena in Lincoln. More fans will show if they have something to do before and after the game besides just driving to and from the game.
 

longliveCS40

HR Legend
Oct 25, 2002
13,826
12,037
113
The students have at least 5 sections of front row seating.
At one end not along the sidelines and they have chairs and cheerleaders between them and the court. They need to be along the sidelines. Go check out Cameron indoor student section. Or check out The Orange Crush sections at Illinois (in orange.) They encircle the whole court. That is the type of thing that gives you home court advantage.

sfc-seatingdiagram.png
 

HawkPT

HR MVP
Dec 13, 2002
1,384
894
113
I've attended lots of games at Carver, and I've been a Carver apologist... until I attended the Iowa game at Mackey a couple weeks ago.

Here's my analogy: Mackey is to Kinnick what Carver is to the Big House.

Mackey is built on a sharper angle, so it feels like you are on top of the action, and the bench has fans perched just behind and above them. The sound is captured and reverberates through the space, which is aided by the fact that the student sections (which oppose each other on both baselines up to the rafters) were loud and rambunctious.

At Carver, the slope of the seats is flatter. It's a fine place to watch a game. There are no bad seats, but you are at a greater distance from the court quite quickly as you move up each row from the floor. The sound disappears, and, of course, we've never prioritized strategies to maximize the students' potential impact on home court advantage.

Oh... and the Purdue basketball fans reminded me a lot of Cyclone fans. They had perfect eyes that allowed them to see every "bad" call that favored the visitors while ignoring every "bad" call that favored them, and they weren't afraid to let the refs know it. Maybe I'm just not accustomed to home court advantage when watching a basketball game.
 

BBHawk

HR Legend
Oct 31, 2001
27,362
20,109
113
Iowa City
Anyone who doubts your point should think again. In football, the 5-star safety Xavier Nwankpa specifically said the game-day atmosphere at the PSU-Iowa game this fall was one of the key factors in him choosing IOWA over such places as Notre Dame and Ohio State.

I admit it: I attended games at the old Field House, so I know the difference. Yes, rowdy crowds can make even Carver a great home court advantage, but such crowds have been few and far between the last 20 years. Most of the time, Iowa basketball audiences look and sound quieter than concert crowds at Hancher. They'd make any church proud.

But as a basketball venue, Carver is built to fail, and it usually does. When they were in the preliminary stages of designing the facility to replace the Field House, many of us suggested they use the Field House and Kinnick as models. Get the fans as close to court as possible. Build up, not out. Build a rectangle, not a circle. Essentially, build a modern version of the Field House without the pillars. That would have made a fantastic basketball facility. But no, they settled on a design that was pretty much the opposite of everything you want in a great basketball facility. And here we are. But as others have noted, Iowa could remodel it and address most issues or, better yet, build a new one in a more central location. But hey, we're just Iowa . . .
Are the students ringing the field at Kinnick?
 

jonesy5960

HR All-American
Sep 6, 2012
4,029
6,955
113
Old dude here. The loudest sporting events I've ever attended in my entire life were the basketball games at the old Field house. Your ears were ringing afterwards like you just attended a rock concert. I don't think Carver has ever been like that. Might be the product, the era, the facility or a combination of all 3. Back then Iowa was definitely a basketball school. Today my daughter and her friends who are students have no desire to attend the games. It's tough to figure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amahawk

BBHawk

HR Legend
Oct 31, 2001
27,362
20,109
113
Iowa City
Carver was rocking in the 80s. The worst thing to happen to Iowa basketball was the hiring of Alford. That triggered the PP situation, then the hiring of the opposite of Alford, Lickliter. Iowa never really recovered from that completely.

The only way Iowa will get the students back into Carver is to win games, especially NCAA Tournament games. Otherwise students won't show up. There is too much else to do and the games are all on HD TVs in bars, etc. Way easier to party with buddies than to take time to go to Carver.
 

Hawk_4shur

HR Legend
Jan 2, 2009
14,943
19,547
113
Old dude here. The loudest sporting events I've ever attended in my entire life were the basketball games at the old Field house. Your ears were ringing afterwards like you just attended a rock concert. I don't think Carver has ever been like that. Might be the product, the era, the facility or a combination of all 3. Back then Iowa was definitely a basketball school. Today my daughter and her friends who are students have no desire to attend the games. It's tough to figure.
Carver was rocking in the 80s. The worst thing to happen to Iowa basketball was the hiring of Alford. That triggered the PP situation, then the hiring of the opposite of Alford, Lickliter. Iowa never really recovered from that completely.

The only way Iowa will get the students back into Carver is to win games, especially NCAA Tournament games. Otherwise students won't show up. There is too much else to do and the games are all on HD TVs in bars, etc. Way easier to party with buddies than to take time to go to Carver.

In order for the students to want to go to the games, it has to be more fun than a packed bar on game night, or your buddies room at the dorm, or the living room of a Greek house. The ONLY way to do that is to be in the hunt for a B1G Championship, and even that may not be enough.

Some schools, like Indiana, Illinois, Purdue - going to the basketball game is cool. Football not so much. At Iowa it's the other way around.

Yes, there are schools that pack in the students for both football and basketball - ISU might be one. Michigan and OSU have great traditions in both sports, and the schools are double the size of Iowa.

If I was a student today, going to a basketball game would probably be a tough sell.