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Charles Koch, Liberal Crusader?

That's great. Thanks for sharing.

I was blessed with a crim professor who was also a philosophy PhD. We studied the motivations behind punishing fairly extensively and it really changed my views on the criminal justice system. Good for Koch on this.
 
A good article. I will be more convinced once he spends some of his money supporting politicians who share his libertarian social views, such as gay marriage. Sadly, most of his dollars are spent supporting politicians who will serve to help him line his already deep pockets.
 
He wrote an excellent article which was published in the DMR earlier this year. But thanks to this article, I have discovered what motivated him.
" What changed things for him, Koch says, was a 1995 Texas case against Koch Industries. As Koch tells it, state prosecutors pressured a Koch employee he had fired into testifying in a criminal case against four other Koch workers, saying they had covered up a chemical-pollution infraction at one of Koch's plants. The prosecutors offered Koch a deal: Cut the four employees loose to be charged and convicted, and Koch Industries wouldn't suffer."
 
Originally posted by theiacowtipper:

A good article. I will be more convinced once he spends some of his money supporting politicians who share his libertarian social views, such as gay marriage. Sadly, most of his dollars are spent supporting politicians who will serve to help him line his already deep pockets.
Hardly only a con trait for absolute certain.

All politicians, both sides of the aisle, are bought and paid for by someone to some degree.
 
Originally posted by bagdropper:
Originally posted by theiacowtipper:

A good article.  I will be more convinced once he spends some of his money supporting politicians who share his libertarian social views, such as gay marriage.  Sadly, most of his dollars are spent supporting politicians who will serve to help him line his already deep pockets.
Hardly only a con trait for absolute certain.

All politicians, both sides of the aisle, are bought and paid for by someone to some degree.
More than any thing it's a libertarian idea. It's some thing Republicans need to adopt. It would raise our numbers with the youth and minorities. In addition, it's the correct thing to do
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by aflachawk:
Originally posted by bagdropper:
Originally posted by theiacowtipper:

A good article. I will be more convinced once he spends some of his money supporting politicians who share his libertarian social views, such as gay marriage. Sadly, most of his dollars are spent supporting politicians who will serve to help him line his already deep pockets.
Hardly only a con trait for absolute certain.

All politicians, both sides of the aisle, are bought and paid for by someone to some degree.
More than any thing it's a libertarian idea. It's some thing Republicans need to adopt. It would raise our numbers with the youth and minorities. In addition, it's the correct thing to do
Posted from Rivals Mobile
It would be strategic, but good luck selling it to the "law and order" conservative types.
 
Originally posted by aflachawk:
Originally posted by bagdropper:
Originally posted by theiacowtipper:

A good article. I will be more convinced once he spends some of his money supporting politicians who share his libertarian social views, such as gay marriage. Sadly, most of his dollars are spent supporting politicians who will serve to help him line his already deep pockets.
Hardly only a con trait for absolute certain.

All politicians, both sides of the aisle, are bought and paid for by someone to some degree.
More than any thing it's a libertarian idea. It's some thing Republicans need to adopt. It would raise our numbers with the youth and minorities. In addition, it's the correct thing to do
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Libertarians should just form their own party. I'd be very likely to vote for a lot of such candidates if they weren't beholden to the hard right conservatives of the GOP. Frankly, there are a lot in Hollywood who are libertarian (they like their money and they believe in a 'live and let live' society), many who would surprise a lot of people.
 
Originally posted by mstp1992:
Libertarians should just form their own party. I'd be very likely to vote for a lot of such candidates if they weren't beholden to the hard right conservatives of the GOP. Frankly, there are a lot in Hollywood who are libertarian (they like their money and they believe in a 'live and let live' society), many who would surprise a lot of people.
They have their own party, but like all 3rd parties in America, they can't win. David Koch even ran on the Libertarian Presidential ticket against Reagan in 1980. They learned the lesson that if you want something accomplished, you can't be tilting at windmills messing around with 3rd party romanticism. You must get on the field and that means tossing their lot in with one of the teams in the arena.
 
Originally posted by mstp1992:

Originally posted by aflachawk:
Originally posted by bagdropper:
Originally posted by theiacowtipper:

A good article. I will be more convinced once he spends some of his money supporting politicians who share his libertarian social views, such as gay marriage. Sadly, most of his dollars are spent supporting politicians who will serve to help him line his already deep pockets.
Hardly only a con trait for absolute certain.

All politicians, both sides of the aisle, are bought and paid for by someone to some degree.
More than any thing it's a libertarian idea. It's some thing Republicans need to adopt. It would raise our numbers with the youth and minorities. In addition, it's the correct thing to do
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Libertarians should just form their own party. I'd be very likely to vote for a lot of such candidates if they weren't beholden to the hard right conservatives of the GOP. Frankly, there are a lot in Hollywood who are libertarian (they like their money and they believe in a 'live and let live' society), many who would surprise a lot of people.
Libertarians have formed their own party. The problem is this. The duopoly known as Republicrat make the rules. Every election cycle, the Republicrat overlords make the LP exhaust their donations just to get on the ballot in every state. It is thereby nearly impossible for the LP to gain legitimacy. If only there was a billionaire out there who would donate a large chunk of their loot to said party. They could put their money where their mouth is. However, the Koch's don't do that. They Are NOT libertarian. Calling oneself does not make it so.
 
Originally posted by Nat Algren:

Originally posted by mstp1992:


Originally posted by aflachawk:

Originally posted by bagdropper:

Originally posted by theiacowtipper:

A good article. I will be more convinced once he spends some of his money supporting politicians who share his libertarian social views, such as gay marriage. Sadly, most of his dollars are spent supporting politicians who will serve to help him line his already deep pockets.
Hardly only a con trait for absolute certain.

All politicians, both sides of the aisle, are bought and paid for by someone to some degree.
More than any thing it's a libertarian idea. It's some thing Republicans need to adopt. It would raise our numbers with the youth and minorities. In addition, it's the correct thing to do

Posted from Rivals Mobile
Libertarians should just form their own party. I'd be very likely to vote for a lot of such candidates if they weren't beholden to the hard right conservatives of the GOP. Frankly, there are a lot in Hollywood who are libertarian (they like their money and they believe in a 'live and let live' society), many who would surprise a lot of people.
Libertarians have formed their own party. The problem is this. The duopoly known as Republicrat make the rules. Every election cycle, the Republicrat overlords make the LP exhaust their donations just to get on the ballot in every state. It is thereby nearly impossible for the LP to gain legitimacy. If only there was a billionaire out there who would donate a large chunk of their loot to said party. They could put their money where their mouth is. However, the Koch's don't do that. They Are NOT libertarian. Calling oneself does not make it so.
Bill Maher calls himself a libertarian as well.
 
Originally posted by naturalmwa:


Originally posted by mstp1992:

Libertarians should just form their own party. I'd be very likely to vote for a lot of such candidates if they weren't beholden to the hard right conservatives of the GOP. Frankly, there are a lot in Hollywood who are libertarian (they like their money and they believe in a 'live and let live' society), many who would surprise a lot of people.
They have their own party, but like all 3rd parties in America, they can't win. David Koch even ran on the Libertarian Presidential ticket against Reagan in 1980. They learned the lesson that if you want something accomplished, you can't be tilting at windmills messing around with 3rd party romanticism. You must get on the field and that means tossing their lot in with one of the teams in the arena.
Yeah, that worked really well for Ron Paul. He went that route, and the party itself, along with help from Democrats, shunned him, despite his popularity.

Sorry, but you want the teams to stay together, many people in this country do not. Your ideas get nowhere, because the cycle continues. You are typical of the old faction of voters in this country. It's not about what is right and wrong, it's about continuing with the system that you have gotten used to.

You care more about your party than you do common sense and justice.
 
Originally posted by Aegon_Targaryen:
Originally posted by naturalmwa:


Originally posted by mstp1992:

Libertarians should just form their own party. I'd be very likely to vote for a lot of such candidates if they weren't beholden to the hard right conservatives of the GOP. Frankly, there are a lot in Hollywood who are libertarian (they like their money and they believe in a 'live and let live' society), many who would surprise a lot of people.
They have their own party, but like all 3rd parties in America, they can't win. David Koch even ran on the Libertarian Presidential ticket against Reagan in 1980. They learned the lesson that if you want something accomplished, you can't be tilting at windmills messing around with 3rd party romanticism. You must get on the field and that means tossing their lot in with one of the teams in the arena.
Yeah, that worked really well for Ron Paul. He went that route, and the party itself, along with help from Democrats, shunned him, despite his popularity.

Sorry, but you want the teams to stay together, many people in this country do not. Your ideas get nowhere, because the cycle continues. You are typical of the old faction of voters in this country. It's not about what is right and wrong, it's about continuing with the system that you have gotten used to.

You care more about your party than you do common sense and justice.
It worked out great for Paul, both of them. Its the only reason you know who they are. And to be clear, its not my ideas or desires. Its the way the founders set up the system. If you want more parties, toss out the American Presidential system and the constitution and form a parliamentary government. I'm just pointing out reality to you.
 
Originally posted by naturalmwa:


It worked out great for Paul, both of them. Its the only reason you know who they are. And to be clear, its not my ideas or desires. Its the way the founders set up the system. If you want more parties, toss out the American Presidential system and the constitution and form a parliamentary government. I'm just pointing out reality to you.

The system was NOT created with two parties in mind. As a matter of fact, some of the Founding Fathers warned against them. The whole was set up to be a way to go away from having a party system. Particularly with how a President was elected.

President Washington himself was very much against the forming of parties. You are not good at history Natural.
 
Originally posted by Aegon_Targaryen:
Originally posted by naturalmwa:


It worked out great for Paul, both of them. Its the only reason you know who they are. And to be clear, its not my ideas or desires. Its the way the founders set up the system. If you want more parties, toss out the American Presidential system and the constitution and form a parliamentary government. I'm just pointing out reality to you.

The system was NOT created with two parties in mind. As a matter of fact, some of the Founding Fathers warned against them. The whole was set up to be a way to go away from having a party system. Particularly with how a President was elected.

President Washington himself was very much against the forming of parties. You are not good at history Natural.
Unintended consequences. They created a system that structurally rewards party formation and structurally keeps that number at just two. I didn't make the rules, I just play by them. Paul understood that.
 
Given their druthers, the Koch brothers concern Dems because they want to end MediCare and Social Security. That, and they oppose many EPA requirements. Government regulations are , alas, needed because not all folks will participate and someone has to swing the hammer when needed.
No one is all good or all bad...those are subjective monikers used by "we the people".....There are even many Repubbers who do good things for all.
 
Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by aflachawk:
Originally posted by bagdropper:
Originally posted by theiacowtipper:

A good article.  I will be more convinced once he spends some of his money supporting politicians who share his libertarian social views, such as gay marriage.  Sadly, most of his dollars are spent supporting politicians who will serve to help him line his already deep pockets.
Hardly only a con trait for absolute certain.

All politicians, both sides of the aisle, are bought and paid for by someone to some degree.
More than any thing it's a libertarian idea. It's some thing Republicans need to adopt. It would raise our numbers with the youth and minorities. In addition, it's the correct thing to do
Posted from Rivals Mobile
It would be strategic, but good luck selling it to the "law and order" conservative types.  
Or the "pass another law and it will fixed left". The fact is only the libertarians believe in this en mass
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by aflachawk:

Or the "pass another law and it will fixed left". The fact is only the libertarians believe in this en mass
Posted from Rivals Mobile
How does the logic of this reply work in your mind? Another law would be required to address this, it's the only thing that will and it's what the Kochs are trying to do with the help of libs who are already on board. Did you read he article?
 
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