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Children rarely transmit Covid-19

Face masks are not draconian. Closing businesses and SIP orders were draconian. That’s what caused small business owners to lose their life’s work and sent tens of millions into unemployment and more tens of millions into depression. Bankruptcies, crime, drug abuse; these are real consequences that we will feel for years.

Face masks should have been a no-brainer.
Agree. An easy mitigation measure that would have drove down the infection rate. Shouldn't even be a debate....
 
Perhaps the most important of those draconian measures you speak of, wearing a face covering, would have been easily accepted by almost all Americans if Donald Trump had embraced wearing a face covering back in February/early March. His cult would have fallen right in line, most likely.
Maybe it's not a good comparison, but I wonder how many Americans refused to adopt the strict measures the nation was expected to follow after Pearl Harbor to help win the WW2?
Jesus. If Biden gets elected are you going to sniff kids hair like he does?
 
Tell that to the average "individualistic" American.

No plan was ever going to work because this country is stupid. Period.

I think we could have gotten Americans to buy off on it. I still think it could be salvaged if we ran PSA’s with NASCAR drivers and country music stars telling their fan base it’s good to wear face masks. Perhaps give away masks with a flag and angry bald eagle emblazoned on them.

But our politicians have made no attempt to approach this thoughtfully.
 
remember a month ago when 50,000 rioters and protesters were huddled together throwing rocks at police? That might have helped spread this virus too, but I know you’re much more concerned about a few Christians trying to socially-distance inside a church.

Really? You don't know anything about my religious beliefs. I am a member of St. Joan Of Arc Catholic Church in Minneapolis. Our parish members would love to worship face to face again, but they are trying to practice the love and empathy of this guy named Jesus Christ. Christ was also a protestor, and I would like to believe that if he was alive today, he would be at the front of the crowd. He put his beliefs into action. Christians can actually have a social justice consciousness that is all inclusive and action oriented. Any more accusations about my religiosity? Oh, FYI, Christians can also be politically progressive! Hard to believe!
 
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But our politicians have made no attempt to approach this thoughtfully.
I have said this before, but never before have I felt that this country has as serious a leadership void as I do now. I'm not just talking about Trump FTR. It is at all levels, Federal, state, and even local. I would even throw many private companies in there as well.

I have no idea what happened but current leadership in this country is downright awful.
 
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I have said this before, but never before have I felt that this country has as serious a leadership void as I do now. I'm not just talking about Trump FTR. It is at all levels, Federal, state, and even local. I would even throw many private companies in there as well.

I have no idea what happened but current leadership in this country is downright awful.

It’s amazing it has been punted all the way down to the individual household level...
 
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I have said this before, but never before have I felt that this country has as serious a leadership void as I do now. I'm not just talking about Trump FTR. It is at all levels, Federal, state, and even local. I would even throw many private companies in there as well.

I have no idea what happened but current leadership in this country is downright awful.

Let’s be honest, current leadership is bad but half the population would hate a good leader too.
 
Face masks are not draconian. Closing businesses and SIP orders were draconian. That’s what caused small business owners to lose their life’s work and sent tens of millions into unemployment and more tens of millions into depression. Bankruptcies, crime, drug abuse; these are real consequences that we will feel for years.

Face masks should have been a no-brainer.

You do know that when this first started there were no masks. The hospitals didn't even have enough equipment. You act like the government needed to say, hey everyone get your mask out of your mask draw and put it on. There were no masks. We had extremely poor leadership in the WH doing nothing. States had to fend for themselves. To stop the bleeding states had to do something quick. Some states had no choice.

Even today there are (republican) states that are having to shutdown certain businesses because the virus is spreading. How do you have a bar open and stop the spreading of the virus. You can't. Same thing for eating. Even today businesses are going to be impacted.

Even if you had every business open, that doesn't mean people are going to go out to restaurants and bars like they did before the virus. Until the virus is under control, businesses will be impacted. You can claim that people are being overly scared, but that's just your opinion. Everyone can do what they want to do.
 
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I think we could have gotten Americans to buy off on it. I still think it could be salvaged if we ran PSA’s with NASCAR drivers and country music stars telling their fan base it’s good to wear face masks. Perhaps give away masks with a flag and angry bald eagle emblazoned on them.

But our politicians have made no attempt to approach this thoughtfully.
Politicians may be partially to blame but the experts (Fauci, CDC and WHO) all said that masks were ineffective and not to wear them. They later reversed their recommendation.
 
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That's the best you have? Would you like to talk about the 20+ women who have accused Trump of sexual abuse? How about the massive payout to Stormy and Karen? Perhaps the rape accusation against Trump and Epstein made by a 13 year old?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/assault-allegations-donald-trump-recapped
The only one there that is not a woman that rebuffed an unwanted advance, at worst, was the 13 year old with Epstein, and that one evaporated. Anything further on that is conjecture. This is piling on by a bunch of libtards that do not like Donald. Who has not misread the moment and made unwanted advances.

C'mon, he kissed me and I did not like it. Pussy grabbing. With all the people in NYC who love to go to shrinks, it does not surprise me. They convince themselves they are part of the narrative. Women get passed around in that town and they go nuts.

https://science.time.com/2013/11/19...nt-study-shows-false-memories-afflict-us-all/
 
Politicians may be partially to blame but the experts (Fauci, CDC and WHO) all said that masks were ineffective and not to wear them. They later reversed their recommendation.
Those same experts also encouraged people to gather and protest in major cities across America.
 
Politicians may be partially to blame but the experts (Fauci, CDC and WHO) all said that masks were ineffective and not to wear them. They later reversed their recommendation.

They said that because there were no masks to give out to the public. There wasn't even enough for the hospitals. There was a run on toilet paper, what do you think would have happened if people had been told to wear a mask. The experts had no other option than to tell people they didn't need a mask and to just stay at home.
 
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Yep...a few of us had this right from the beginning when the dust started to settle on what C19 was. It’s too bad the 20 somethings (bc they are 20 year olds) and MAGAs couldn’t keep up and follow along. Now we are likely to have sporadic k-12 schooling and no CFB this fall...effing jerks!

You conveniently left out the protesters, and the politicians walking with them.
 
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Those same experts also encouraged people to gather and protest in major cities across America.

Wow, some of you people are just nuts. You're mad because you think the experts are to blame for the shutdowns. Now you mad and blaming the experts for people getting together. You do know the experts have no actual say in government decisions, right? If you want to blame someone, blame the WH.
 
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They said that because there were no masks to give out to the public. There wasn't even enough for the hospitals. There was a run on toilet paper, what do you think would have happened if people had been told to wear a mask. The experts had no other option than to tell people they didn't need a mask and to just stay at home.

They did more than that. They said masks weren't effective, and might even do more harm than good. The CDC had that on an FAQ page on their website for a week after they changed their message to advocating masks.
 
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Sweden never closed their schools below high school. Never required any mitigation efforts. Sweden has had a number of school related outbreaks.
The only article I found related to Swedish schools and transmission:

"Country-Specific Experience with School Re-Opening Sweden Sweden did not close schools for students in kindergarten through grade 9 in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Schools were closed for students in upper secondary grades from around March 18, 2020 through June 14, after which schools were reopened for all students. No major adjustments to class size, lunch policies, or recess rules were instituted. 2 Seroprevalence surveys conducted by the Swedish Public Health Agency found that the antibody prevalence in children/teenagers was 4.7% compared with 6.7% in adults age 20-64 and 2.7% in adults age 65-70. The relatively high rate in children suggests there may have been significant spread in schools."

Doesn't say anything about outbreaks, or bad news, other than they found the antibodies in them, which is a good thing
 
Wow, some of you people are just nuts. You're mad because you think the experts are to blame for the shutdowns. Now you mad and blaming the experts for people getting together. You do know the experts have no actual say in government decisions, right? If you want to blame someone, blame the WH.

Blame the White House? For what?
 
They did more than that. They said masks weren't effective, and might even do more harm than good. The CDC had that on an FAQ page on their website for a week after they changed their message to advocating masks.
The CDC has been awful through all this. Just awful.

When you combine poor leadership at the federal level with conflicting advice from the CDC with state and local leaders not doing their part, well this is the mess one gets.
 
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Watched the show immediately after Morning Joe on MSNBC yesterday. Had a panel of five pediatricians that discussed just this and about opening schools. All five panelists said they'd send their own kids back to school....reporter seemed shocked at the answers.
But why won’t the MAINSTREAM MEDIA REPORT THIS!!!!’??!!!!????
 
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Blame the White House? For what?
They do have some blame here too.

They downplayed this thing a lot in the beginning and still do to some extent. They do not lead by example and they certainly haven't helped bring a united front. They did actually put out a decent re-opening plan but then basically shit on it the very next day with Trump's "liberate" tweet and then they more or less dumped the plan.
 
They did more than that. They said masks weren't effective, and might even do more harm than good. The CDC had that on an FAQ page on their website for a week after they changed their message to advocating masks.
The CDC never said masks could do more harm. They simply encouraged those who were healthcare workers or were sick to wear masks, AND that these guidelines could change with more data on the transmission of the virus.

More data was obtained, guidelines shifted. This is called science.


From April 3.

Surgeon General Jerome Adams acknowledged that government advice about masks has been “confusing to the American people.”

Until now, the CDC has said that healthy people do not need a mask unless they are working in a healthcare setting or caring for an infected person. “The best available evidence” did not suggest that wearing a mask would do much to protect a healthy person from contracting COVID-19, Adams said.

What changed that thinking was a recognition that people were spreading the virus even when they seemed healthy.

Upon reviewing this new information about transmission of the virus by asymptomatic persons, the CDC rightly altered their guidelines regarding the wearing of masks.

Why is this sort of stuff so difficult for people to understand? Science is all about making conclusions on the best available data. As the data shifts, the conclusions shifts.

Don't people take any science classes in school anymore?
 
They do have some blame here too.

They downplayed this thing a lot in the beginning and still do to some extent. They do not lead by example and they certainly haven't helped bring a united front. They did actually put out a decent re-opening plan but then basically shit on it the very next day with Trump's "liberate" tweet and then they more or less dumped the plan.

Fair enough.
 
For total lack of leadership. For denying the virus was a big deal. For not helping the states as needed. False claims about the virus and medications. I could go on but maybe it would be better for you to state what they've done right.

They shut down travel fro China as soon as the 8 cases happened in Washington. They shut down travel from Europe with virtually no warning very early. They sent a Navy Medical ship to NY/NJ that got almost no use. They ordered emergency production of ventilators. They fastracked approval of drugs and treatments, and have fastracked vaccine research and testing.

They failed in all the ways srams21 said. Trump has done an extremely poor job in his message, and by the example he sets. But to just say we need to blame the WH is pure politics. COVID-19 doesn't care about political affiliation, or if Fauci or the CDC are right or wrong.

You, or others might say, "well we know more now than we did then". And I'll say you are exactly right. It's easy to be an armchair QB.
 
They shut down travel fro China as soon as the 8 cases happened in Washington. They shut down travel from Europe with virtually no warning very early. They sent a Navy Medical ship to NY/NJ that got almost no use. They ordered emergency production of ventilators. They fastracked approval of drugs and treatments, and have fastracked vaccine research and testing.

They failed in all the ways srams21 said. Trump has done an extremely poor job in his message, and by the example he sets. But to just say we need to blame the WH is pure politics. COVID-19 doesn't care about political affiliation, or if Fauci or the CDC are right or wrong.

You, or others might say, "well we know more now than we did then". And I'll say you are exactly right. It's easy to be an armchair QB.

There was very little testing going on at the airports, people were videoing how they were able to get through security without any type of test. All WH did was give false statements. They still can't get everyone tested. The Navy ship was a joke. Before sending the ship wouldn't it make more sense to know what to use it for. Just a waste of money. States were having to out bid each other for medical equipment. Bad equipment was being shipped to the states. Big deal they remove some regulation for drugs, that didn't take any effort. Trump talked about fake medication and UV light. It was total BS what was done and has been done. The States are driving this and the WH is trying to downplay the virus. I agree this isn't about politics, it's about handling a problem correctly, and this WH hasn't done that. If anyone is being political, it's trump. He's the person who blames the democrats for the virus.
 
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There was very little testing going on at the airports, people were videoing how they were able to get through security without any type of test. All WH did was give false statements. They still can't get everyone tested. The Navy ship was a joke. Before sending the ship wouldn't it make more sense to know what to use it for. Just a waste of money. States were having to out bid each other for medical equipment. Bad equipment was being shipped to the states. Big deal they remove some regulation for drugs, that didn't take any effort. Trump talked about fake medication and UV light. It was total BS what was done and has been done. The States are driving this and the WH is trying to downplay the virus. I agree this isn't about politics, it's about handling a problem correctly, and this WH hasn't done that. If anyone is being political, it's trump. He's the person who blames the democrats for the virus.

There's no need in discussing it further. It's clear you are motivated by politics. Please show me evidence that Trump has blamed Democrats for the virus. The Chinese don't count as Democrats unless you're Rush Limbaugh.

On February 29th, Fauci was quoted in the NEJM as saying this wasn't something the general public needed to be worried about.
 
There's no need in discussing it further. It's clear you are motivated by politics. Please show me evidence that Trump has blamed Democrats for the virus. The Chinese don't count as Democrats unless you're Rush Limbaugh.

On February 29th, Fauci was quoted in the NEJM as saying this wasn't something the general public needed to be worried about.

Trump was the person motivated by politics. Trump and the WH have not handled this virus correctly and you even admitted it in another post. Not sure why now you're saying something differently.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-calls-coronavirus-democrats-new-hoax-n1145721
 
They shut down travel fro China as soon as the 8 cases happened in Washington. They shut down travel from Europe with virtually no warning very early.
Got any links on this? Timelines?

I know they shut down travel to some areas of China. But "essential" travel was still possible and still is. Btw, essential travel is a pretty vague bucket.
 
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The CDC never said masks could do more harm. They simply encouraged those who were healthcare workers or were sick to wear masks, AND that these guidelines could change with more data on the transmission of the virus.

More data was obtained, guidelines shifted. This is called science.


From April 3.

Surgeon General Jerome Adams acknowledged that government advice about masks has been “confusing to the American people.”

Until now, the CDC has said that healthy people do not need a mask unless they are working in a healthcare setting or caring for an infected person. “The best available evidence” did not suggest that wearing a mask would do much to protect a healthy person from contracting COVID-19, Adams said.

What changed that thinking was a recognition that people were spreading the virus even when they seemed healthy.

Upon reviewing this new information about transmission of the virus by asymptomatic persons, the CDC rightly altered their guidelines regarding the wearing of masks.

Why is this sort of stuff so difficult for people to understand? Science is all about making conclusions on the best available data. As the data shifts, the conclusions shifts.

Don't people take any science classes in school anymore?

Yes, the CDC did say that. Unfortunately I don't have a screenprint. I did link to it when it was up.

Yes, when they learned more, they changed their guidance. I credit them for that.

Many of the same people who are saying it's OK to give the CDC a pass on changing as new data is available are the ones blaming everything on Trump. While Trump has done a poor job, it's really hypocritical to blame him for doing a poor job of parroting what the so-called experts were telling him at the time.
 
According to multiple studies in this article. If this is in fact the case, why aren't we hearing about this in the media and why would it be necessary to close schools?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200710100934.htm

They literally cite two sources.

Other data is now making it increasingly evident that children DO spread it, they just aren't as symptomatic. And they are at risk for MIS-C a month or more after exposure.

We shouldn't be basing policy on "two references", when other data (and evidence of outbreaks at summer camps) do not support this generalization.
 
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